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Arc was working fine but now intermittently disappears from the app

  • 24 December 2021
  • 15 replies
  • 1360 views
K

I realize this has has been addressed in another post, but the solution there didn't help, so reposting.  First some background:

1. Been using Sonos since 2008. What attracted me (despite their high price) was their robustness

2. In 2021, while my fellow Sonos users were complaining about Sonos' new products not being backwards compatible to their older products, I replaced all my Sonos S1 products with new S2 products (again because Sonos products are reliable, robust and always just work)

 

Now my issue:

1.  Since my upgrade on 2021, my Arc/Sub and Port have been working flawlessly fir months. However in the last few weeks, my Arc/Sub intermittently disappear from the app.  My Port *never* disappears from the app. What is specific about the Arc that isn't applicable to the Port?

2.  I've tried factory resets to the Arc, reinstalling the app and going through the entire setup process and everything works fine for like 30min or an hour. Then the Arc disappears again

3. My Arc is connected via ethernet. I've tried disconnecting the Ethernet and going wireless, but it still disconnects after about an hour.

4. I've tried turning off wifi for the Arc via the app and just using the Ethernet cable, but the app wouldn't let me select this option - it just kept saying "this can take several minutes" but it didn't allow me to switch over to disabling the wifi.

It goes without saying that these products are not cheap and then to buy them all over again a second time and have the robustness factor that Sonos was known for go to crap is extremely disappointing.

If anyone has a solution for the above, I'd certainly appreciate it. Else, I'll be getting rid of all of my Sonos speakers and will be sure to tell anyone and everyone who'll listen about my recent experience with Sonos.

Thanks in advance.

 

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Best answer by Airgetlam 24 December 2021, 02:33

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15 replies

Airgetlam

Notwithstanding your unnecessary threat, it sure sounds a lot like an issue with a duplicate IP address being held in your router. Rather than doing a factory reset, which more often obfuscates an issue than it fixes one, why don’t you try unplugging all Sonos devices from power. While they’re unplugged, reboot your router. Once the router comes back up, plug back in your Sonos devices. Then see if the issue recurs. If it does immediately, my suspicions are unfounded, and you should instead submit a system diagnostic within 10 minutes of experiencing this problem, and call Sonos Support to discuss it.

There may be information included in the diagnostic that will help Sonos pinpoint the issue and help you find a solution.

When you speak directly to the phone folks, they have tools at their disposal that will allow them to give you advice specific to your Sonos system and network.

However, if the reboot process does solve the issue, I’d recommend looking at the manual for your router and setting up reserved IP addresses in the router’s DHCP table for all your networked devices, not just the Sonos. 

Bruce
G
Userlevel 7

What model router are you using? Have you tried unbonding/removing the Sub from the Arc in the Sonos app and unplugging both the Arc and Sub from power for a couple of minutes and reboot your router? Also, you should always keep WiFi enabled for all of your Sonos devices regardless of whether or not they are wired with an ethernet cable.

"Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you." - Rashi
K

Notwithstanding your unnecessary threat, it sure sounds a lot like an issue with a duplicate IP address being held in your router. Rather than doing a factory reset, which more often obfuscates an issue than it fixes one, why don’t you try unplugging all Sonos devices from power. While they’re unplugged, reboot your router. Once the router comes back up, plug back in your Sonos devices. Then see if the issue recurs. If it does immediately, my suspicions are unfounded, and you should instead submit a system diagnostic within 10 minutes of experiencing this problem, and call Sonos Support to discuss it.

There may be information included in the diagnostic that will help Sonos pinpoint the issue and help you find a solution.

When you speak directly to the phone folks, they have tools at their disposal that will allow them to give you advice specific to your Sonos system and network.

However, if the reboot process does solve the issue, I’d recommend looking at the manual for your router and setting up reserved IP addresses in the router’s DHCP table for all your networked devices, not just the Sonos. 

Agreed - my threat was unnecessary. I'm just really frustrated with this issue. My apologies.  But your hypothesis sounds very plausible.  I'll try ASAP! Thank you for your suggestions :-)

K

What model router are you using? Have you tried unbonding/removing the Sub from the Arc in the Sonos app and unplugging both the Arc and Sub from power for a couple of minutes and reboot your router? Also, you should always keep WiFi enabled for all of your Sonos devices regardless of whether or not they are wired with an ethernet cable.

Netgear Orbii RBS50.  Will try the router reboot now.  Also, thanks for the guidance to leave WiFi enabled regardless of whether or not they are wired with Ethernet cable...was wondering about that.

K

Notwithstanding your unnecessary threat, it sure sounds a lot like an issue with a duplicate IP address being held in your router. Rather than doing a factory reset, which more often obfuscates an issue than it fixes one, why don’t you try unplugging all Sonos devices from power. While they’re unplugged, reboot your router. Once the router comes back up, plug back in your Sonos devices. Then see if the issue recurs. If it does immediately, my suspicions are unfounded, and you should instead submit a system diagnostic within 10 minutes of experiencing this problem, and call Sonos Support to discuss it.

There may be information included in the diagnostic that will help Sonos pinpoint the issue and help you find a solution.

When you speak directly to the phone folks, they have tools at their disposal that will allow them to give you advice specific to your Sonos system and network.

However, if the reboot process does solve the issue, I’d recommend looking at the manual for your router and setting up reserved IP addresses in the router’s DHCP table for all your networked devices, not just the Sonos. 

So far so good!!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! I love my Sonos system again!!!!!

Quick question - if I setup reserved IP addresses in my router, then doesn't that render the DHCP (dynamic IP address) moot? I.e. it's a static address at that point correct?

K

What model router are you using? Have you tried unbonding/removing the Sub from the Arc in the Sonos app and unplugging both the Arc and Sub from power for a couple of minutes and reboot your router? Also, you should always keep WiFi enabled for all of your Sonos devices regardless of whether or not they are wired with an ethernet cable.

So far so good with the router reboot!! 

jgatie

So far so good!!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! I love my Sonos system again!!!!!

Quick question - if I setup reserved IP addresses in my router, then doesn't that render the DHCP (dynamic IP address) moot? I.e. it's a static address at that point correct?

 

Not really.  Static addresses are set on the devices themselves.  Reserved addresses are still handed out by the router, but when you reserve the address, it assures the same address is given to the same device each time.  So even if the router goes wonky and loses it’s IP assignment table, it’s never going to hand that address out to another device.  

K

So far so good!!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! I love my Sonos system again!!!!!

Quick question - if I setup reserved IP addresses in my router, then doesn't that render the DHCP (dynamic IP address) moot? I.e. it's a static address at that point correct?

 

Not really.  Static addresses are set on the devices themselves.  Reserved addresses are still handed out by the router, but when you reserve the address, it assures the same address is given to the same device each time.  So even if the router goes wonky and loses it’s IP assignment table, it’s never going to hand that address out to another device.  

So far so good!!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! I love my Sonos system again!!!!!

Quick question - if I setup reserved IP addresses in my router, then doesn't that render the DHCP (dynamic IP address) moot? I.e. it's a static address at that point correct?

 

Not really.  Static addresses are set on the devices themselves.  Reserved addresses are still handed out by the router, but when you reserve the address, it assures the same address is given to the same device each time.  So even if the router goes wonky and loses it’s IP assignment table, it’s never going to hand that address out to another device.  

Ah ok gotcha.  Thanks for the explanation.

Airgetlam

Kind of, yes. And you should take my word with a grain of salt, as I’m not a network expert like so many here are, I have a rudimentary understanding of many of these things. 

The challenge I frequently interpret in cases similar to yours is an issue with the way that Sonos interacts with the router’s DHCP table, which is a more frequent process of asking for an IP than normal internet devices. Essentially, every time Sonos updates their software, they cause a soft reboot of the device which initiates a new request to the router for a new IP address. When the router is in a ‘bad’ state, it can hand out an already in use IP address, which can cause conflict. The process suggested basically reloads the OS for the router, and when the Sonos are plugged back in, they get ‘new’ IP addresses, from the refreshed DHCP table. Reserving IP addresses tends to fix the issue of the router losing track of which addresses are in use, sort of as a belt and suspenders extra step. For reasons I can’t explain, at the least, routers tend not lose track as easily of reserved addresses when handing out fresh requests. 

I had this problem years ago with a router. Every time there was a software update, I’d lose speakers randomly. Following the advice from other folks here on the forum, I sat down with the manual and worked my way through setting up reserved IP addresses. Since that time, I’ve stopped having issues. 

Why can’t Sonos do something about this? There’s not much they can. The router’s DHCP table is not supposed to get ‘confused’ in the first place, and the process of reserving IP addresses differs from not only manufacturer to manufacturer,  to routers of differing types from any particular manufacturer. Sonos is doing the process as dictated by the way the system is supposed to work, but they get blamed for the errors in the router’s firmware. 
 

Bruce
K

Kind of, yes. And you should take my word with a grain of salt, as I’m not a network expert like so many here are, I have a rudimentary understanding of many of these things. 

The challenge I frequently interpret in cases similar to yours is an issue with the way that Sonos interacts with the router’s DHCP table, which is a more frequent process of asking for an IP than normal internet devices. Essentially, every time Sonos updates their software, they cause a soft reboot of the device which initiates a new request to the router for a new IP address. When the router is in a ‘bad’ state, it can hand out an already in use IP address, which can cause conflict. The process suggested basically reloads the OS for the router, and when the Sonos are plugged back in, they get ‘new’ IP addresses, from the refreshed DHCP table. Reserving IP addresses tends to fix the issue of the router losing track of which addresses are in use, sort of as a belt and suspenders extra step. For reasons I can’t explain, at the least, routers tend not lose track as easily of reserved addresses when handing out fresh requests. 

I had this problem years ago with a router. Every time there was a software update, I’d lose speakers randomly. Following the advice from other folks here on the forum, I sat down with the manual and worked my way through setting up reserved IP addresses. Since that time, I’ve stopped having issues. 

Why can’t Sonos do something about this? There’s not much they can. The router’s DHCP table is not supposed to get ‘confused’ in the first place, and the process of reserving IP addresses differs from not only manufacturer to manufacturer,  to routers of differing types from any particular manufacturer. Sonos is doing the process as dictated by the way the system is supposed to work, but they get blamed for the errors in the router’s firmware. 
 

Great explanation! Thank you!  I'm a hardware guy so all this is for the most part above my pay grade.  But lemme ask you this - you say Sonos can't do anything about this.  You also say that this tends to happen when there's a software update.  Then would it stand to reason that fewer software updates from Sonos would reduce the frequency of this issue occurring?  Back in 2008, Sonos did like one update a year (if that).  Now they do software updates (what seems like) every time I press play. Thoughts? 

UKMedia
Userlevel 7
Badge +20

To further explain the comments from @Airgetlam, you may want to look at my article here: Tips & Tricks - Resolving random issues impacting Sonos devices.. | Sonos Community

Remember: Sometimes Red Wine helps :)
Airgetlam

Firmware without updates means limiting the features provided to the users, which means fewer sales. That’s never a good business strategy.

If there is no issue on the majority of networks, and people can resolve the issues on routers that have issues by simply following appropriate network etiquette, why would Sonos want to avoid increasing their potential for additional features, or bug fixes, or whatever?

I understand where you’re coming from, but it seems like an odd thing for Sonos to change their business plan based on a minority of poorly working pieces of hardware that are outside of their control. 

Bruce
K

Firmware without updates means limiting the features provided to the users, which means fewer sales. That’s never a good business strategy.

If there is no issue on the majority of networks, and people can resolve the issues on routers that have issues by simply following appropriate network etiquette, why would Sonos want to avoid increasing their potential for additional features, or bug fixes, or whatever?

I understand where you’re coming from, but it seems like an odd thing for Sonos to change their business plan based on a minority of poorly working pieces of hardware that are outside of their control. 

Fair point. I do think that Sonos can do a better job in batching their firmware updates though, but that is just my opinion.  Ironically, their very frequent firmware updates may in fact be deterring repeat sales rather than increasing them as you suggest, but again, that's just a hypothesis that I have no data to prove one way or the other.

But thank you again for your help.  12 hrs later, the system is still up, so clearly your fix solved my issue!

K

To further explain the comments from @Airgetlam, you may want to look at my article here: Tips & Tricks - Resolving random issues impacting Sonos devices.. | Sonos Community

Awesome - thank you!

Airgetlam

Managing software releases is a fun job, there is always a frisson between getting that latest fix out for the people suffering from some bug or the latest new whiz-bang feature that might increase sales by 5%, versus the whole ‘we released two weeks ago, it’s too soon’ kind of thing. 

I suspect my release process in video games was more easily formatted in a schedule than the Product Manager who deals with Sonos software releases, but I’ve never done that kind of thing. However, I’m also the impatient guy who wants that latest thing right now, and not in two weeks when we’ve got 3 things to include. And those two other things are only possibilities, since either the code isn’t yet done, or QA hasn’t had enough time to test, or the beta testers have found X as an issue….

Software release management is a dark art. 

Bruce
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