65,000 track workarounds -- confused

  • 13 December 2010
  • 32 replies
  • 15051 views

Hi all,

Sorry to start a new thread, but am in need of basic answers:

I spent last night reading every thread I could find wrt workarounds on the 65K track limit.

Frankly, most of it was over my head, technically speaking.

But here's what I gleaned...

1) there is some kind of beta-type solution where something emulates a WMP server. But apparently it doesn't work with FLAC or ALAC, which is a dealbreaker for me.

2) Spoon/dbPA had some success with Asset, but I gather this now only works with the Desktop Controller? And it might 'break' when Sonos next updates the DC, which one would think is coming soon.

Am I right so far?

I own a Netgear ReadyNAS NVX NAS, but I gather this NAS is incompatible with the dbPA solution as it's not a Windows server/WHM product?

I also own a Buffalo NAS:

http://www.amazon.com/Buffalo-Technology-LinkStation-Performance-LS-V2-0TL/dp/B0042TW3J6/ref=dp_ob_title_ce

Would the Buff be compatible with the dbPA solution?

Any other solutions I'm missing?

Thanks, John

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32 replies

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Hi,

I think you have some of the information, but not exactly correct.

If a media server is to show up on the newer Sonos controllers (CR200 etc), it needs to be Windows Media Player compliant (actually it needs to pretend to be WMP).

To show up on the older controllers, i.e. the CR100 and the desktop controller, it can be WMP compliant or Rhapsody compliant.

Asset is Rhapsody compliant, so provides a good solution on the older controllers. As Sonos is no longer supporting Rhapsody compliant servers on the newer controllers, it's possible (likely?) that eventually Asset won't work with Sonos - that said, Spoon could amend Asset to be WMP compliant if he wants to. Asset runs on Windows, so if you want to run it on a NAS it would have to be a Windows NAS.

For WMP compliance, obviously you have WMP on Windows. There is also sonospy, a proxy server that I wrote.

Sonospy can do several things. It can act as a wrapper around other media servers, making them WMP compliant to Sonos. Sonospy will wrap Asset, and it will wrap Twonky. Both of those servers are proven, but sonospy could wrap other media servers too (for instance Coherence). Twonky runs on Linux as well as Windows, but will also run on a NAS.

The latest version of sonospy, currently in testing, also provides an internal WMP compliant server - so that it doesn't need a separate media server to proxy. It can serve any audio file type, so that you're only restricted by the types that Sonos can play (it doesn't currently do any transcoding). When using its internal server sonospy can serve multiple WMP clones at the same time, so you can see multiple servers on the Sonos controllers served from the machine that sonospy is running on. Sonospy runs on Linux, Mac and Windows, and will run on a NAS.

There is at least one other WMP compliant server out there that works with Sonos - I can't remember exactly but I think it's SimplifyMedia.

Mark.

There is at least one other WMP compliant server out there that works with Sonos - I can't remember exactly but I think it's SimplifyMedia.


Yes, I heard there was a version of that which worked with Sonos.

Interestingly Google has recently acquired them!

Cheers,

Keith
I think you have some of the information, but not exactly correct.


Thanks for this recap Mark, I appreciate it. I'm too busy right now to follow up, but I'll probably ask you some further questions about Sonospy in the very near future. It sounds like an intriguing solution.

Thanks again, John
Userlevel 2
Hi-have recently bought Sonos to discover the 65,000 limit, which sucks.
Is there a solution for a sytem playing on a Mac?
The system isn't really playing on a mac so there would be no difference between workarounds mentioned elsewhere except that the one workaround (using windows media player, etc) would not be available. Other ideas such as separating music into master folders would still work (for example, not indexing your christmas music the other 11 months of the year, or keeping only your favorite 65,000 tracks indexed now and switching to your other index when you're bored with the same old 3800 straight hours of music). I'm nowhere near the limit yet I still un-index some music so I don't have to scroll through it the 99.9% of the time I don't want it.
Userlevel 2
The system isn't really playing on a mac so there would be no difference between workarounds mentioned elsewhere except that the one workaround (using windows media player, etc) would not be available.

Henkelis's WMP proxy, however, would still work, as it requires only Python on the host machine.
Userlevel 2
Hi,

I think you have some of the information, but not exactly correct.

If a media server is to show up on the newer Sonos controllers (CR200 etc), it needs to be Windows Media Player compliant (actually it needs to pretend to be WMP).

To show up on the older controllers, i.e. the CR100 and the desktop controller, it can be WMP compliant or Rhapsody compliant.

Asset is Rhapsody compliant, so provides a good solution on the older controllers. As Sonos is no longer supporting Rhapsody compliant servers on the newer controllers, it's possible (likely?) that eventually Asset won't work with Sonos - that said, Spoon could amend Asset to be WMP compliant if he wants to. Asset runs on Windows, so if you want to run it on a NAS it would have to be a Windows NAS.

For WMP compliance, obviously you have WMP on Windows. There is also sonospy, a proxy server that I wrote.

Sonospy can do several things. It can act as a wrapper around other media servers, making them WMP compliant to Sonos. Sonospy will wrap Asset, and it will wrap Twonky. Both of those servers are proven, but sonospy could wrap other media servers too (for instance Coherence). Twonky runs on Linux as well as Windows, but will also run on a NAS.

The latest version of sonospy, currently in testing, also provides an internal WMP compliant server - so that it doesn't need a separate media server to proxy. It can serve any audio file type, so that you're only restricted by the types that Sonos can play (it doesn't currently do any transcoding). When using its internal server sonospy can serve multiple WMP clones at the same time, so you can see multiple servers on the Sonos controllers served from the machine that sonospy is running on. Sonospy runs on Linux, Mac and Windows, and will run on a NAS.

There is at least one other WMP compliant server out there that works with Sonos - I can't remember exactly but I think it's SimplifyMedia.

Mark.


Is there a link where sonospy is downloadable and is there a manual as how to implement it on a mac on OsX 10.7
I am not so good at programming etc. but still would love to try to use it with my sonos system around +65 K
4 x s5, 1 x s3, 1 x zp 90, 1 x zp 120
I have a new imac on lion connected with a hard disk on which all my music is collected

kind thanks for your very much appreciated work on the system

Drs. Rob Bijpost, psychotherapist
Driebergen
The Netherlands
[email]info@hotel-bijpost.nl[/email]
Userlevel 2
As a relatively recent Sonos owner this issue is probably my only ongoing frustration with the system. Amazing how often an album I wish to hear turns out to be missing from my Sonos library. The one area of performance that does not match that of my old Squeezebox-based system.
I am simply not tech savvy enough to find a work-around for this but wait for a set of simple instructions that might allow my entire library to be available through Sonos.
Badge
Is there a link where sonospy is downloadable and is there a manual as how to implement it on a mac on OsX 10.7
I am not so good at programming etc. but still would love to try to use it with my sonos system around +65 K
4 x s5, 1 x s3, 1 x zp 90, 1 x zp 120
I have a new imac on lion connected with a hard disk on which all my music is collected


Sonospy is hosted on Github. I've been resisting posting the location, as the documentation is not yet foolproof (and not specific to platform). The latest version is at:

https://github.com/henkelis/sonospy/tree/unstable

Most of the testing is on Linux, but people are running in on Mac and Windows too. There's a readme and the beginnings of a WIKI.

Please email me if you need any help getting it up and running.
Userlevel 2
is there a manual as how to implement it on a mac on OsX 10.7
I am not so good at programming etc. but still would love to try to use it with my sonos system around +65 K
4 x s5, 1 x s3, 1 x zp 90, 1 x zp 120 and a bridge
I have a new imac on lion connected with a hard disk on which all my music is collected

i went to the page you named found the files, but still i need more indication of how to go about installing and getting ready.
I think there is a market for your work as i look into the fora about sonos.

kind thanks for your very much appreciated work on the system

Drs. Rob Bijpost, psychotherapist
Driebergen
The Netherlands
[email]info@hotel-bijpost.nl[/email]
Badge
is there a manual as how to implement it on a mac on OsX 10.7


There's a readme document in the root folder of the download, it explains how to install:

https://github.com/henkelis/sonospy/blob/unstable/README

The install is actually just a copy, plus opening a few ports if you have a firewall running on the machine. You just need Python (which should already be installed on your Mac) to run it.

Once you've installed, then it's just a scan of your music before you start the server.
Badge +2
I use M3U4U and create playlists which Sonos then indexes as tracks, so the Sonos can now cope with 65000 folders. You need to make the track name the file name and only get coverart on the Now Playing window. Almost as good.....
Userlevel 2
I just now read your reply.

it could be most helpfull

but can you plse enlighten

where should the m3u file be and whre should the mp3 files be

I see the m3u and put it in my sonos folder
it indexes, but will not play

thanks in advance

rob bijpost
Userlevel 2
@Robbijpost:
  • the m3u files should be in the directory SONOS is scanning for the index.
  • The actual music files shoul be in another directory of course 🙂.


BUT: make sure the playlist uses a correct path to the files!
For example:
  • the standard SONOS directory structure is like ....server/music/album/files 1-nn.mp3
  • and the actual playlist files are in the not searched location ....server/playlists/group/files1-nn.mp3

Make sure the playlist is somewhere in ....server/music/ and the actual playlist directs to ....server/playlists/ etc....
Userlevel 2
Hi Guys, I'm completely new to SONOS, as in less than a week! I bought a play 5 and 2 x play 3's at the weekend and saw this thing about 65'000 song limit.

I've been a DJ and radio presenter for over 20 years so i LOVE music and 65'000 is surely enough for most people isn't it?

i suppose the only problem comes when like me you are importing two peoples music collections, I have around 35'000 tracks on mine so far and the other has 10'000 so I'm guessing it could become an issue in the future but sonos may have sorted it by then.
I've been a DJ and radio presenter for over 20 years...

...and still you don't run into the track limit yet?

How do some of you other hunter-gatherers manage to collect so much? 😉
Userlevel 2

How do some of you other hunter-gatherers manage to collect so much? ;)


Easy. Some of us spend a lot of money on music... ...and some of us don't. 🙂
Userlevel 2
@chilly: maybe a DJ and presenter has learned to select music - and delete the rest 🙂.

We normal listeners like @Thomas and @ianmacd and myself- collect a lot and don't want to remove the "lesser" songs. After years of collecting and digitizing 3000 albums you may reach 64000.....

But this discussion makes me think. Maybe SONOS is telling us something? Make up your mind? Make choices - just like in real life;) ! SONOS as a mindgame! For free! Food for thought.

But if you want to exceed the 64000 anyway there are ways enough mentioned in this thread!
cappersg,

This is a minor point, but I want to prevent any misunderstandings.

In computers there is some confusion when we express numbers near a power of two or ten.

The shorthand number "1K" can mean 1000 (a power of 10) or 1024 (a power of two). In the case of "64K", if we assume that this is a binary number, its decimal value will be 65536 and we sometimes will express this as "65K". Further, in some computer hardware, the maximum positive number is 65535. This leads to numerous misunderstandings.

In the case of the SONOS library, the limit is exactly 65000 tracks -- a decimal number.
Userlevel 2
dear buzz

I tried the workaround, made a playlist of a folder with files.
first the playlist manifested in the folder on my external hd and when indexed it played the files, which were also indexed because they were in the same disk, same lower order folder.
then i made another playlist of same folder but then in not indexed part of same hd.
the playlist was indexed and showed the constituting files, but did not play the files.

colud you please help me

rob bijpost
then i made another playlist of same folder but then in not indexed part of same hd.
the playlist was indexed and showed the constituting files, but did not play the files.

You still need to share the unindexed folder onto the network. You just don't tell Sonos to index it.

Each line in the playlist should be of the form:
\\devicename\sharename\subfolder\ .... \subfolder\trackfilename

1/ Each music file reference must be an absolute UNC path
2/ Sonos must have read access to the unindexed share
Userlevel 2
I read in the forums quitwe often abot elling or not telling sonos to index

I am confused about what this means in a procedural way.

I only see update music index overall

if you would be so kind as to elaborate i would be grateful

kind regards

rob bijpost
robbijpost,

By "shared folder" we mean telling the operating system that the respective folder can be accessed by any computer on the network that has proper credentials. By "credentials" I mean that some folders may be protected with a user name and password. In this case the owning computer will not allow the share without proper credentials.

Once a folder or group of folders are "shared", any or all of these folders can be included in your SONOS music library setup. Any folders declared in the SONOS library will be indexed and become your SONOS Music Library.

SONOS playlists will always be tracks from the SONOS Music Library.

An "Imported Playlist" is simply a list of files. This list is typically prepared by a program, such as Media Monkey, however, playlists are simple enough that one could use a text editor to build a playlist. As long as SONOS can fetch the file (and, the file is a supported format) the file will play, regardless of being in the SONOS library or not. If the file is in a folder that is not shared or SONOS does not have the proper credentials, the attempt to play will fail.

iTunes playlists are different because a specific file, prepared by the iTunes program, is imported.

Also, make sure that the computer or hard drive storing the file is turned and not sleeping at the time you want to play the track.
Userlevel 2
dear buzz or someone else in this forum

can i send you an im with screenprints, your colleagues at sonos netherlands say it cannot be done.

I on the other hand want to believe you and the forum, but the question is how can sonos be told through the exact same playlists, where it should find the music files.

thank you for bearing with me

rob bijposst
robbijpost,

Just post an example of a few lines from the M3U file you're attempting to use.