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Era 300 - need immediate help with stereo pair imaging

ocean_tied
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Hello!   I am at the end of my trial period for a pair of Era 300s.  In a nut shell I really like them (using Apple Music). BUT I am getting ear fatigue as I think it’s due to the pair competing with each other. And I cannot get the imaging to balance out. What I mean is the only way to experience a center stage for vocals is sitting dead center between the pair, just like old school audiophile days. However, I tend to sit on either end of my living room sofa.

 

I’ve done Trueplay multiple times, as well as place the speakers in different parts of the room. Note, I have high ceilings on half of the living room. And I’ve placed the speakers about 7 feet apart at an angle to the sofa, in order for both speaker to have the same ceiling height (You can see two pictures where I’ve experimented with speaker placement).

 

I’ve spoken with Sonos support several times, and they’ve mainly stated Sonos removed the L/R Balance adjustment on Era 300s because of Spatial Audio. :(  They didn’t offer much more ideas sadly…

 

I find one single Era 300 does not give me ear fatigue, though it’s certainly not the same room filling experience. I also have a pair of old Sonus Fabers which are much better, but will require something like an NAD C700 to get close to the Sonos convenience benefit.

 

Q: To achieve what I’m desiring, would a pair of Era 100s and a sub-mini be a better fit? Any other suggestions? I think the 5s may work but would need to be vertical position and of course I lose latest tech and voice control.

I really need some timely help here.

Thank you!

Michael Amir

 

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Best answer by ocean_tied 19 May 2023, 21:15

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Ocean_tied
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28 replies

ocean_tied
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Hey all. Any ideas on how to pre filter music to find tracks that are lossless?  For example I use Apple Music and ask for artist, song, genre, etc. However, lossless only shows once that song starts playing. The “problem” is there could be multiple search results for that song or album, and I cannot see which is lossless until after I select that song to play. 

I don’t know if Amazon music using Sonos app does similarly or if I’m missing a hidden Sonos app trick.

Cheers

Ocean_tied
buzz

Isolation will only affect hum if it accidentally spaces the turntable closer to or farther from the source of hum. First do the arm movement test. 

SarahN
Userlevel 6
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The hum is quiet but there when nothing is being played. So maybe not feedback as such then. From memory of my old 80's set up, it is different to feedback. So would an isolation block not make any difference to this? 

Can you have too many Sonos speakers? 🤔 😆
buzz

With respect to horizontal or vertical, only you know which sounds “best” (to you). 

buzz

Hum and acoustic feedback are two different issues.

Hum can be caused by various factors and will be present when there is no contact with the record. Does the hum change while you move the arm across the playing area near, but not touching the record surface.

ocean_tied
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@SarahN I’m certainly no @buzz but wouldn’t making them vertical also give more separation L/R as well as options to angle (not to mention less surface contact like you stated)?.. 

Ocean_tied
SarahN
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@buzz - would a turntable isolation block help? 

Yes, but only for the foot conducted sound. Looking at your photo, this turntable might offer better than average foot isolation, but the average is extremely low. Make sure that the FIVE’s don’t touch the walls or lamps.

The Fives don't touch either of those things and yes, the turntable feet are the cone type which I know are better. I might look to get an isolation block for it to try as I'd rather raise that than the Fives. I do get a small amount of hum from the Fives so guessing that's due to the factors you state. I doesn't affect my enjoyment too much but if I could lessen it more, that would be good. I have no way of placing the fives anywhere else so they will have to stay on the same cabinet as the turntable. Would putting the Fives in the vertical orientation make any difference? 

Can you have too many Sonos speakers? 🤔 😆
buzz

@buzz - would a turntable isolation block help? 

Yes, but only for the foot conducted sound. Looking at your photo, this turntable might offer better than average foot isolation, but the average is extremely low. Make sure that the FIVE’s don’t touch the walls or lamps.

ocean_tied
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@buzz I cannot thank you and Sarah enough for your help and REAL WORLD guidance!! 

As you know, I am new to Sonos and with anything, it’s easy to fail into the trap of “forcing a square peg into a round hole…”. I also don’t want to turn the main living room into a studio engineering room hahaha.

I’m going to try the fives and see if that does the trick. Then I’ll once again experiment with placing them either in the corner by the fireplace or opposite of the sofa. If it does, I found Sanus stands on Amazon specific for the fives. 

Ocean_tied
SarahN
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@buzz - would a turntable isolation block help? 

Can you have too many Sonos speakers? 🤔 😆
buzz

@ocean_tied you understood me correctly. You need major room treatment, simple padding under the speakers will not accomplish much for you. It‘s different physics.

buzz

@SarahN actually, I use my fingernails to rap things. This is not a popular technique for females with nail “enhancements”.

ocean_tied
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@buzz After reading your replies to @SarahN I think your original suggestion to me about rugs I may have misinterpreted; were you suggesting placing some padding directly under the speakers (between the speaker and tables)? If yes, my apologies for misunderstanding. Would Sonos or Sanus stands help instead?? 

And if so, would you still recommend the fives given the room layout? I’m thinking you’re gonna say indeed. LOL

 

Ocean_tied
buzz

Both. Audio from FIVE’s will be conducted through the countertop and up through the turntable feet. There will also be transmission through the air, especially to the turntable cover and to some extent directly to the record. Each turntable is different in this respect. A few will pass my “rap test” with flying colors, most will not.

SarahN
Userlevel 6
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@buzz - is the risk due to them being a bit close or being on the same unit as the turntable? 

Can you have too many Sonos speakers? 🤔 😆
K
Userlevel 7
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I use an Echo Dot to control my Playbar, I believe you could do the same with a pair of Five/ 5's?.

buzz

I know they're a bit too close together but nothing I can do about that. They sound fab anyway 😁

You risk some acoustic feedback with this setup. Try inserting some padding under the FIVES’s.

You can explore the acoustic feedback risk using your knuckles to rap things while playing a stationary or silent record. Be sure to rap on the dust cover. Placing an LP or two on the cover might improve things. Rap again after making changes in order to explore the results.

Another way to explore this is to play a silent or stationary record and increasing the Volume to the point where there is a howl. (This might upset a pet) Make note of the Volume setting, then make a change. Higher settings indicate improvements.

ocean_tied
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Wow!  I didn’t know you could do that with the fives.  

I’m building out the house with HomeKit over time, so I’m also trying to ensure things work within that ecosystem, which Sonos does….

I really hope they come out with new fives with mics and Wi-Fi 6, etc, bc the 300s are great, at times (song dependent). I spoke with a Sonos L2 tech who basically said, yeah that’s the chance you take with the 300s and song reproduction. :( I was even going to do a sub-mini to free up the mids, but that won’t help with @buzz great point on sounds bouncing all around.

 

@SarahN  I see you have “1-2” Sonos products 😜 Any reason you did Amazon music vs. say Apple Music?

 

Cheers!  You all are fantastic!!!

Ocean_tied
SarahN
Userlevel 6
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You need to get the fives but also some Sonos speakers with mics. Then you can control the Fives via the other speakers 😆

Can you have too many Sonos speakers? 🤔 😆
ocean_tied
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Thanks for sharing!!!  Today is last day I can use the 300 before returning them so this along with buzz feedback truly helps. I wish the fives had a mic but oh well. 
 

fyi the 300 sound amazing based on the song selection. Go to a less ideal song mix and the spatial audio and multi directional speakers sadly gives me headaches.  Wild ride indeed. 

Ocean_tied
SarahN
Userlevel 6
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I know they're a bit too close together but nothing I can do about that. They sound fab anyway 😁

Can you have too many Sonos speakers? 🤔 😆
SarahN
Userlevel 6
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Thanks SarahN

 

do you have them directly in front of you or at an angle?  Any balance or imaging issues for you like I’m having with the Era 300?

and did you find you needed a sub or no with the 5s?

 

cheers. 

I have them facing forwards on a large sideboard with a turntable inbetween them. I do have them paired with a Sub gen 3 but they're also excellent without it. No balance issues as you can alter the balance unlike the Era 300s. I do also have a single 300 that I use just for Dolby Atmos music. I'm a bit of a Sonos junkke lol 😆

Can you have too many Sonos speakers? 🤔 😆
ocean_tied
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Thanks SarahN

 

do you have them directly in front of you or at an angle?  Any balance or imaging issues for you like I’m having with the Era 300?

and did you find you needed a sub or no with the 5s?

 

cheers. 

Ocean_tied
SarahN
Userlevel 6
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Hi, just a quick note about the Fives. You can place them either vertical or horizontal as a stereo pair. Which ever you prefer. I have mine horizontal which I know isn't the norm. I prefer them that way though 😊

Can you have too many Sonos speakers? 🤔 😆
ocean_tied
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Thank you so so very much!!

 

im guessing that if I place any speakers directly in front of the sofa, I’m always going to face left / right speaker bias, considering I’m always on one side of the sofa.  Hence having them at the angle (either side of the fireplace) seems to help ensure center stage a bit.
Note, I have a large rug in the middle of the hardwood floor but that’s it. 
 

If I do/should place speakers there (fireplace) vs opposite wall of sofa, that limits me to exclusively Wi-Fi speakers like KEF or Sonos. 
 

is that your recommendation on speaker placement?  If yes would you recommend Era 100 pair with sub mini or pair of Sonos 5s?

 

here’s hoping Era 5s are coming!

 

cheers!
 

 

Ocean_tied
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