Delighted to see AirPlay 2 support annouced. However, bubble well and truely burst by twitter support confirming it only works on newest devices - the play5 gen 2, and play base.
Can this be explained further, is it :
(i) Only new devices will support AirPlay 2. So if I have 6 Sonos speakers, 2 of which are play5:gen2, only those 2 will show as airplay speakers?
Or
(ii) You need at least one compatible device in your ecosystem, which acts as a bridge for older devices. So in scenario above, as at least one play5:gen2 is in the mix, all speakers are available.
I am crossing everything that it is (ii)... or there will be a lot of very unhappy people!
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Ah that’s a bummer, I just ordered a Play 1, should of went with Sonos 1 instead. But since Airplay 2 isn’t coming until 2018, I probably will end up ordering a Sonos 1 by then.
Airplay 2 is software only no hardware required.
I have seen varying reports if Airplay 2 will be provide on current hardware.
Airplay 2 works with multiple devices although there are ways to do that with current Airplay. It also has a much larger cache and streams faster than real time to eliminate lag.
I just got my Sonos One by the way and its sounds great 🙂. I was going to buy two Homepods but this is more flexible.
I would reckoned you return the Play 1 and get a Sonos One.
It sounds better to me than a Play 1, looks better (to me), and will get more updates in future.
That is how it works.
You can currently do Airplay to all that with Airsonos.
I'm not seeing a technical reason why Airplay 2 can't be implemented on existing hardware.
You can currently do Airplay to all that with Airsonos.
I'm not seeing a technical reason why Airplay 2 can't be implemented on existing hardware.
Unless there is a hardware technical limitation to older devices (which I am not going to pretend whether or not I know there is or is not), it is rather greedy of Sonos to only enable for Gen2 Play:5 and Playbase's. AirPlay 2 is software authenticated. to quote The Verge "Unlike the original AirPlay, AirPlay 2 doesn't require special hardware anymore, but is entirely software-based, which allows for companies like Sonos to add support to their devices after the fact." https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/4/16418944/sonos-airplay-2-support-apple-ios-siri-2018
So unless the original Play:1, Play:3, Play:5 and Playbar do not have the hardware capabilities to make the software authentication work - I foresee no reason why older devices cannot work. And if they do not, I would fully expect Sonos to be transparent on this and tell us why.
As soon as HomeKit went software authenticated, thousands of devices were updated to support it - including older devices. Those companies did not require users to introduce new hardware to make their old hardware compatible.
So unless the original Play:1, Play:3, Play:5 and Playbar do not have the hardware capabilities to make the software authentication work - I foresee no reason why older devices cannot work. And if they do not, I would fully expect Sonos to be transparent on this and tell us why.
As soon as HomeKit went software authenticated, thousands of devices were updated to support it - including older devices. Those companies did not require users to introduce new hardware to make their old hardware compatible.
Alot of speaker companies are saying they can update their speakers to use Airplay 2 but those are mostly companies that already do Airplay. Some that do Airplay now are saying they cannot update. Hard to say if they are jsut trying to sell new speakers.
Has anyone tried Airsonos with the Sonos One's?
Im a huge fan of Airplay by the way and have used it for multi-room for some time as there have been ways to do this before Airplay 2. I don't use bluetooth and one of the reasons I didn't buy Sonos products before is they restricted you to using their app. The combination of promising Airplay 2 and Alex in the Sonos Ones is what spurred me to buy two Sonos One's.
If they had the Play 5 with built in Alexa I would have bought two of those.
If they ever put HDMI into their home theater products I will buy those.
Has anyone tried Airsonos with the Sonos One's?
Im a huge fan of Airplay by the way and have used it for multi-room for some time as there have been ways to do this before Airplay 2. I don't use bluetooth and one of the reasons I didn't buy Sonos products before is they restricted you to using their app. The combination of promising Airplay 2 and Alex in the Sonos Ones is what spurred me to buy two Sonos One's.
If they had the Play 5 with built in Alexa I would have bought two of those.
If they ever put HDMI into their home theater products I will buy those.
So unless the original Play:1, Play:3, Play:5 and Playbar do not have the hardware capabilities to make the software authentication work - I foresee no reason why older devices cannot work. And if they do not, I would fully expect Sonos to be transparent on this and tell us why.
As soon as HomeKit went software authenticated, thousands of devices were updated to support it - including older devices. Those companies did not require users to introduce new hardware to make their old hardware compatible.
There are plenty of technical reasons why older devices cannot support Airplay 2 beyond the fact that there are no specific hardware chips required. Starting with memory limitations and processor capabilities. As to the Verge statement, there were plenty here and in the press who claimed Airplay 1 required no such hardware and therefore Sonos could implement it in software any time. Now it turns out special hardware was required. So I take any "definitive" statement on whether a chip or other special hardware is required for Airplay 2 with a big grain of salt, no matter what the source.
Read the Apple developer docs. They clearly say software only and no hardware required.
That’s authoritative.
That’s authoritative.
That’s authoritative.
I stand corrected, though there were plenty of claims from posters here that they also had "authoritative" proof that Airplay 1 required no hardware. Glad to see that put to bed at least, and it still does not mean there aren't other legitimate reasons older Sonos units cannot support the protocol besides simple greed. Sonos simply has no history of abandoning older hardware when implementing new features.
I do not have the developer access so I cannot comment to that. I am assuming that DarwinOSX has access or has seen and read the documentation.
I totally stand behind Sonos if they are transparent and come out stating that there is a hardware limitation preventing it. Totally OK with that. When they designed the Play:1, there was not a notion that Apple would make AirPlay software authenticated so the devices were just not designed for it.
I just have to be hard pressed that Apple does NOT want as many devices in their AirPlay ecosystem and would require a special hardware device to enable it. I go back to the HomeKit authentication - a lot of devices were introduced suddenly with a simple software update. And these devices could be smaller than a Sonos speaker and required no hardware update.
Plus, maybe Sonos will not get side eye from Apple on one of their fancy keynotes o_O
I totally stand behind Sonos if they are transparent and come out stating that there is a hardware limitation preventing it. Totally OK with that. When they designed the Play:1, there was not a notion that Apple would make AirPlay software authenticated so the devices were just not designed for it.
I just have to be hard pressed that Apple does NOT want as many devices in their AirPlay ecosystem and would require a special hardware device to enable it. I go back to the HomeKit authentication - a lot of devices were introduced suddenly with a simple software update. And these devices could be smaller than a Sonos speaker and required no hardware update.
Plus, maybe Sonos will not get side eye from Apple on one of their fancy keynotes o_O
I totally stand behind Sonos if they are transparent and come out stating that there is a hardware limitation preventing it. Totally OK with that. When they designed the Play:1, there was not a notion that Apple would make AirPlay software authenticated so the devices were just not designed for it.
I just have to be hard pressed that Apple does NOT want as many devices in their AirPlay ecosystem and would require a special hardware device to enable it. I go back to the HomeKit authentication - a lot of devices were introduced suddenly with a simple software update. And these devices could be smaller than a Sonos speaker and required no hardware update.
Plus, maybe Sonos will not get side eye from Apple on one of their fancy keynotes o_O
Let's turn this around. What is it about preventing older Sonos devices from accessing Airplay 2 would be beneficial to Sonos? If you say greed, what is it exactly about Sonos' dealings in the past make you think they are prone to greed based decisions? They effectively killed their own very lucrative hardware controller by releasing phone apps. Every new feature ever released has been available on every Sonos device ever made. They bend over backwards to make sure older devices are not abandoned for new hardware, much to the chagrin of folks who want larger local libraries. The latest partnerships with other parties, Alexa and Spotify Connect, could easily have been locked out of older devices in order to be "greedy" and sell new devices, but they are compatible with every Sonos device ever made. So why now are they going to start artificially locking out devices in the name of "greed"? It isn't really in their DNA.
All that aside, I highly doubt you are going to see Sonos be transparent about their internal designs and the limitations therein. That also isn't in their DNA. Will that fuel the tin-foil hat brigade? Sure, but Sonos doesn't seem to care much about that fringe element.
I totally stand behind Sonos if they are transparent and come out stating that there is a hardware limitation preventing it. Totally OK with that. When they designed the Play:1, there was not a notion that Apple would make AirPlay software authenticated so the devices were just not designed for it.
I just have to be hard pressed that Apple does NOT want as many devices in their AirPlay ecosystem and would require a special hardware device to enable it. I go back to the HomeKit authentication - a lot of devices were introduced suddenly with a simple software update. And these devices could be smaller than a Sonos speaker and required no hardware update.
Plus, maybe Sonos will not get side eye from Apple on one of their fancy keynotes o_O
It is available to the public although I do have access to developer docs.
https://developer.apple.com/documentation/avfoundation/airplay_2
Did Sonos say there was a hardware limitation? Haven't seen that but I don't pretend to know the internals of their firmware.
I'm not really clear about your point on Apple but the reason it required hardware before is firmware memory and processing was not as capable as it is now way back when Airplay was first introduced. They also charged a licensing fee.
Apple is pretty close to Sonos in a lot of ways, They sell Sonos products in their stores and web sites after all. I'd like to see them buy Sonos and deploy their developer resources on making the product better.
https://developer.apple.com/documentation/avfoundation/airplay_2
Did Sonos say there was a hardware limitation? Haven't seen that but I don't pretend to know the internals of their firmware.
I'm not really clear about your point on Apple but the reason it required hardware before is firmware memory and processing was not as capable as it is now way back when Airplay was first introduced. They also charged a licensing fee.
Apple is pretty close to Sonos in a lot of ways, They sell Sonos products in their stores and web sites after all. I'd like to see them buy Sonos and deploy their developer resources on making the product better.
I totally stand behind Sonos if they are transparent and come out stating that there is a hardware limitation preventing it. Totally OK with that. When they designed the Play:1, there was not a notion that Apple would make AirPlay software authenticated so the devices were just not designed for it.
I just have to be hard pressed that Apple does NOT want as many devices in their AirPlay ecosystem and would require a special hardware device to enable it. I go back to the HomeKit authentication - a lot of devices were introduced suddenly with a simple software update. And these devices could be smaller than a Sonos speaker and required no hardware update.
Plus, maybe Sonos will not get side eye from Apple on one of their fancy keynotes o_O
Let's turn this around. What is it about preventing older Sonos devices from accessing Airplay 2 would be beneficial to Sonos? If you say greed, what is it exactly about Sonos' dealings in the past make you think they are prone to greed based decisions? They effectively killed their own very lucrative hardware controller by releasing phone apps. Every new feature ever released has been available on every Sonos device ever made. They bend over backwards to make sure older devices are not abandoned for new hardware, much to the chagrin of folks who want larger local libraries. The latest partnerships with other parties, Alexa and Spotify Connect, could easily have been locked out of older devices in order to be "greedy" and sell new devices, but they are compatible with every Sonos device ever made. So why now are they going to start artificially locking out devices in the name of "greed"? It isn't really in their DNA.
All that aside, I highly doubt you are going to see Sonos be transparent about their internal designs and the limitations therein. That also isn't in their DNA. Will that fuel the tin-foil hat brigade? Sure, but Sonos doesn't seem to care much about that fringe element.
There is a recent example. The Play 1 cannot pair with the Sonos One. Sonos has said they may consider doing it in future so it must be possible. There has been a lot of hue and cry about it that's for sure.
Sonos is being much more open lately with direct Spotify, Roon, and Airplay coming not to mention the voice services. They are doing this because they have to. Too bad it took declining revenues and layoffs to make them open up. Now if they would just modernize their home theater equipment.
Are Alexa and Spotify Connect really compatible with every Sonos device ever made?
Larger local libraries can be done on newer equipment but not work on older equipment, there its no reason that's not possible.
A couple things about Airplay 2;
1. It does multi-room but there were ways to do that before.
2. It uses a much larger cache and streams faster than real time to eliminate buffering. I never had issues before with buffering using Airplay in a 5200 sq ft house. Those who did probably had a wi-fi network issue.
3. It is software only, no hardware or license required.
1. It does multi-room but there were ways to do that before.
2. It uses a much larger cache and streams faster than real time to eliminate buffering. I never had issues before with buffering using Airplay in a 5200 sq ft house. Those who did probably had a wi-fi network issue.
3. It is software only, no hardware or license required.
Sonos developer docs
http://musicpartners.sonos.com/?q=docs
http://musicpartners.sonos.com/?q=docs
There is a recent example. The Play 1 cannot pair with the Sonos One. Sonos has said they may consider doing it in future so it must be possible. There has been a lot of hue and cry about it that's for sure.
Sonos is being much more open lately with direct Spotify, Roon, and Airplay coming not to mention the voice services. They are doing this because they have to. Too bad it took declining revenues and layoffs to make them open up. Now if they would just modernize their home theater equipment.
Are Alexa and Spotify Connect really compatible with every Sonos device ever made?
Larger local libraries can be done on newer equipment but not work on older equipment, there its no reason that's not possible.
That is not removing or preventing a feature set from older devices, that is a standing policy of not allowing the pairing of unlike models. A policy which, if based on greed, would be callously ignored instead of reconsidered in the case of the Play:1. Or conversely, if you say the change of heart is due only to the hue and cry of lost sales threats, they would have said aesthetics and sound signatures be damned, let them pair old and new generation Play:5s (which at least have the same model name). So since they are listening today and didn't listen about the Play:5, something besides greed is at work. I posit that it is more in line with their philosophy that aesthetics and sound quality mean something, or else they would allow all sort of setups that look and sound awful instead of the standard audio configurations of 2.0, 2.1, and the variations of 5.1.
Yes, Alexa and Spotify Connect (aka Direct Control) are compatible with every Sonos device ever made.
And with your last statement you make my case; they are loathe to release new functionality that is incompatible with older equipment. Even if they can, and even there is a market for it, they try not to make any functionality exclusive to new devices if they do not have to. That shoots down the theory that they are only allowing newer models to support Airplay 2 out of greed, doesn't it?
There is a recent example. The Play 1 cannot pair with the Sonos One. Sonos has said they may consider doing it in future so it must be possible. There has been a lot of hue and cry about it that's for sure.
Sonos is being much more open lately with direct Spotify, Roon, and Airplay coming not to mention the voice services. They are doing this because they have to. Too bad it took declining revenues and layoffs to make them open up. Now if they would just modernize their home theater equipment.
Are Alexa and Spotify Connect really compatible with every Sonos device ever made?
Larger local libraries can be done on newer equipment but not work on older equipment, there its no reason that's not possible.
That is not removing or preventing a feature set from older devices, that is a standing policy of not allowing the pairing of unlike models. A policy which, if based on greed, would be callously ignored instead of reconsidered in the case of the Play:1. Or conversely, if you say the change of heart is due only to the hue and cry of lost sales threats, they would have said aesthetics and sound signatures be damned, let them pair old and new generation Play:5s (which at least have the same model name). So since they are listening today and didn't listen about the Play:5, something besides greed is at work. I posit that it is more in line with their philosophy that aesthetics and sound quality mean something, or else they would allow all sort of setups that look and sound awful instead of the standard audio configurations of 2.0, 2.1, and the variations of 5.1.
Yes, Alexa and Spotify Connect (aka Direct Control) are compatible with every Sonos device ever made.
And with your last statement you make my case; they are loathe to release new functionality that is incompatible with older equipment. Even if they can, and even there is a market for it, they try not to make any functionality exclusive to new devices if they do not have to. Shoots the theory that they are only allowing newer models to support Airplay 2 out of greed all to hell, doesn't it?
I never said they are not allowing Airplay 2 on older models out of greed. Even if I had your comment does not disprove that at all.
I don't even think we know which models will or won't get Airplay 2 for sure yet.
You are splitting hairs with your comment about pairing and that has nothing to do with opening up to allow other methods of accessing Sonos devices. It's obvious they would love to keep it closed down based on their history but have finally realized they can't as there are other alternatives now which are eating into their profits.
That’s authoritative.
I stand corrected, though there were plenty of claims from posters here that they also had "authoritative" proof that Airplay 1 required no hardware. Glad to see that put to bed at least, and it still does not mean there aren't other legitimate reasons older Sonos units cannot support the protocol besides simple greed. Sonos simply has no history of abandoning older hardware when implementing new features.
They are sort of correct depending on which version of Airplay (there have actually been three) you are talking about and if you mean rendering, DRM, video and or audio only. You can see the history here;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirPlay
I never said they are not allowing Airplay 2 on older models out of greed.
The post I originally replied to did. Take all my responses in that light..
Even if I had your comment does not disprove that at all.
Never talked about proof, only evidence to the contrary
I don't even think we know which models will or won't get Airplay 2 for sure yet.
You are splitting hairs with your comment about pairing and that has nothing to do with opening up to allow other methods of accessing Sonos devices. It's obvious they would love to keep it closed down based on their history but have finally realized they can't as there are other alternatives now which are eating into their profits.
Call it splitting hairs if you wish, but the capability is not limited by the age of the models. It's not like they allowed you to pair two Play:1 and not two Play:3, which is much older. As to your other point,, pairing two liked vs. two unlike devices is functionality internal to the product line, and has absolutely nothing to do with the closed nature of the product. A product could be as open as you want it to be but still disallow pairing of unlike models. Ditto for a closed product that allows you to pair anything at all. That is neither here nor there about the closed or openness, unless you are suggesting they should be pairing with a Bose?
You are really reaching now.
I don't care if the Sonos One plays with the Play 1 or not. if I did have the Play 1 I would have sold it and bought two Sonos One's. But there are a ton of people complaining about the Play One and Sonos One not pairing. Why do you think Sonos didn't provide that when they say they can and might at a later date?
I don't care if the Sonos One plays with the Play 1 or not. if I did have the Play 1 I would have sold it and bought two Sonos One's. But there are a ton of people complaining about the Play One and Sonos One not pairing. Why do you think Sonos didn't provide that when they say they can and might at a later date?
I don't care if the Sonos One plays with the Play 1 or not. if I did have the Play 1 I would have sold it and bought two Sonos One's. But there are a ton of people complaining about the Play One and Sonos One not pairing. Why do you think Sonos didn't provide that when they say they can and might at a later date?
Why? Because they don't look alike, the hardware is 95% different, and according to reviews, there are sonic differences. Maybe not as much difference as the Play:5 models, but it certainly fits their precedent. Hell, at least they didn't name them the same thing, that was the argument before for two speakers that are completely different in all ways. To take it to extreme, I'm quite sure you could technically pair a Play:5 and a Play:3, and there are people who would do it, but it would be aesthetically strange and sound would be compromised. Sonos' policy, with this and the configurations allowed, seems to be to save those folks from themsleves in order to protect the brand. The same applies here, with admittedly a stronger argument against because they are more similar than different. Hence them reconsidering their position.
More similar than different.
95% different.
Hmm.
95% different.
Hmm.
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