Sonos Account: No way!



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If that is not sufficient enough to allay your fears, then there is always e-Bay.

You know, the problem - beside all th data collection that is increased by Sonos, that they change the firmware not only for security, they also change the way how to handle it. It would be the same , if your car dealer tells you after 3 yrs, that now you can't just use the car. You need to come every day to him to get a key to enter the car. And BTW tell the dealer where you want to drive. Would you do that ?
And now your car dealer tells you: ok, when you don't accept this, you won't be able to use the car. And we will not take it back - ok we did the change, but we don't want to take it back - sell it somewhere in the bay. Ah, now , when people know that you have old equipment and that Sonos want's to get more data - do you think the price is high ?
So with the firmware update Sonos tries to obsolete my products, they don't give me an opt-out ( no account , or old firmware ) - of course I am angry about this behaviour. And does Sonos care about their former customer ? Until now: a clear no !
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What is surprising is that the introduction of the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) in the EU seems to be a mystery for people, especially given the huge publicity it had. This ensures your privacy - unless a company wishes to be fined 4% of their global turnover (turnover, note, not profit)
You may have wondered why you have to keep reviewing cookie permissions.

I would thoroughly recommend that those with concerns go and find out about this legislation. It’s been two years in the making so hardly a well kept secret. Facebook, dontcha luv ‘em, moved some operations from the EU to try to avoid this law which shows just how unprivate your info is. FB has been almost desperate to point out what you can switch off, like face recognition.

GDPR is about PRIVACY, not consent. Even if you consent your info MUST be private i.e. you must not be able to identify someone from the data when it is shared (diplomatic word for sold).
Some services have not yet worked out how to comply with this, e.g. Amazon, likely as a result of software not designed correctly.
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If that is not sufficient enough to allay your fears, then there is always e-Bay.

You know, the problem - beside all th data collection that is increased by Sonos, that they change the firmware not only for security, they also change the way how to handle it. It would be the same , if your car dealer tells you after 3 yrs, that now you can't just use the car. You need to come every day to him to get a key to enter the car. And BTW tell the dealer where you want to drive. Would you do that ?


Well actually, I don't have a problem with providing proof of insurance every time I go to get an oil change or some sort of maintenance done. It's particularly good if I were to add an upgrade of any sort to my car. As far as tracking my location, this is exactly what Google, Apple (I think) and other GPS service does.


And now your car dealer tells you: ok, when you don't accept this, you won't be able to use the car.


Not really a good comparison as Sonos doesn't disable anyone's system except where they don't have matching versions between controller and hardware. And yes, if the ABS brakes on my car didn't match the car's firmware to control the brakes, I absolutely would want them to disable my car.


And we will not take it back - ok we did the change, but we don't want to take it back - sell it somewhere in the bay. Ah, now , when people know that you have old equipment and that Sonos want's to get more data - do you think the price is high ?


Your theory isn't matching reality here as used prices haven't dropped with the change in privacy policy. And Sonos does provide a warranty and actually tends to give discounted replacement prices if a product fails after warranty. Changes to the free software/firmware, no, doesn't tend to warrant a buyback.


So with the firmware update Sonos tries to obsolete my products, they don't give me an opt-out ( no account , or old firmware ) - of course I am angry about this behaviour. And does Sonos care about their former customer ? Until now: a clear no !


I don't know how to respond to this. I get the desire to have your product never change, and indeed, many if not most products work that way. Sonos doesn't, because it's operating in a space that's always changing. They could have gone with lines of products, but that would have increased costs, probably would have required them to charge maintenance fees, and would mean you couldn't add new speakers to your original system. They choose the strategy that would get the most out of their products, keep them relevant longer and a cheaper cost to customers, and appeal to the vast majority of customers.
The hilarious thing about this is the following:

A) Sonos has always required registering with an account.
😎 Sonos has always collected data. The only recent changes to the Privacy Policy were for the voice/3rd party control addendum and to clarify the sharing policy. All other data collection was already happening!!!!
C) The only reason people are wailing about this is Sonos now requires authentication, requiring the user to confirm the credentials used when they first set the system up. This is for their protection, yet they still wail on.

So in reality, Sonos has done the following:

1) Alerted you to the fact you have an account (and have always had an account).
2) Alerted you to the fact they are (and always have been) collecting data (a fact which you agreed to when you accepted the software license).
3) Clarified their Privacy Policy so there is no question about what is going on.
4) Expressly stated that you can opt out of that data collection, including the option of having all present data deleted.

That is a heck of a lot more than most companies do with regards to privacy. Yet Sonos is the bad guy.
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A) Sonos has always required registering with an account.
There is a huge difference between a system registering a HW ID, and a system that asks for a name and a mail. And cripples the hardware if that is not provided.

C) The only reason people are wailing about this is Sonos now requires authentication, ... This is for their protection, yet they still wail on.
Personal authentication does not provide any added security. This is just a made up reason to get to users' identities for data harvesting.
If Sonos are so serious about security, they could just provide automated painless firmware updates like any good router company. Cisco never asked me for my mail.
And patiently explaining such a concern is not wailing.

There is a huge difference between a system registering a HW ID, and a system that asks for a name and a mail. And cripples the hardware if that is not provided.


But they DID ask for a name and e-mail when you registered. Your system would have been "crippled" from the start without one. How do you think they got this data (I dare you to log in. Make sure you check the "Owner Since" date :D):

https://www.sonos.com/myaccount/mydata/


Personal authentication does not provide any added security.


Funny, there is another guy in here who argues constantly that authentication is absolutely necessary for security. You two should have a beer together.


This is just a made up reason to get to users' identities for data harvesting.


Sonos explains in great detail what data they "harvest" and what they do with it. They also allow you to opt out of the harvesting of all but the data necessary to operate/diagnose the system (Note: Diagnostic information is voluntary). Have you read this - https://www.sonos.com/en-us/legal/privacy - or are you just going off half cocked?


If Sonos are so serious about security, they could just provide automated painless firmware updates like any good router company. Cisco never asked me for my mail.
And patiently explaining such a concern is not wailing.


Yeah, if you have read the proper disclosures and are still complaining, it is most certainly wailing.

By the way, you skipped 'B" and an important part of 'C'. Nice snipping of that which doesn't fit your narrative.
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Funny, there is another guy in here who argues constantly that authentication is absolutely necessary for security. You two should have a beer together.


Funny, you are totally lying about the authentication that the other guy is asking for. Shame on you.


Funny, you are totally lying about the authentication that the other guy is asking for. Shame on you.


Uhh, no I'm not. He originally asked for authentication to help with his unruly kids, but by his 3rd post in the thread, he piggybacked that onto security issues.

Read the entire thread here:

https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/speaker-password-feature-needed-asap-6811241/index1.html

And I see you are still snipping away at things which don't fit your narrative, huh? Tried that link to your data yet? What's the "Owner Since" entry say?
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You know, there is still not an opt-out from the data collection. So if you think the account is only for security, why do they collect the songs I am hearing ? I ask the support , and the only answer I get is :

If you ask to delete the data, your speaker will no longer work.

They don't make a difference between security data and customer privacy data. And of course they don't make an offer to take back the speakers after they now changed the rules. I still hope that somebody ( like a data privacy protector ) will open go to court and claim that Sonos is not following EU law. There should be a possibility to opt out or to get money back.
You know, there is still not an opt-out from the data collection. [...]
Go to the Advanced Settings in the Sonos Controller. There you can opt out of My data.
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You know, there is still not an opt-out from the data collection. [...]
Go to the Advanced Settings in the Sonos Controller. There you can opt out of My data.

Thanks, yes and Sonos still collects some data, which I can't control.
BTW: the same with NTP - it is not possible to define a server address ; but that is a different security story
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There is a huge difference between a system registering a HW ID, and a system that asks for a name and a mail. And cripples the hardware if that is not provided.


But they DID ask for a name and e-mail when you registered. Your system would have been "crippled" from the start without one. How do you think they got this data (I dare you to log in. Make sure you check the "Owner Since" date :D):

https://www.sonos.com/myaccount/mydata/

Oooh, a dare! I cannot resist! Let's see. [clickity clak] - there it is: "You do not have any Sonos products registered to this account"

And I never had any other account linked to an email.


By the way, you skipped 'B" and an important part of 'C'. Nice snipping of that which doesn't fit your narrative.


As you may notice, I also snipped a lot of text off of this answer. A wise person once told me not to try and match the length of responses of people with >17300 posts..

Oooh, a dare! I cannot resist! Let's see. [clickity clak] - there it is: "You do not have any Sonos products registered to this account"

And I never had any other account linked to an email.


Try going to Settings > Account Settings. Use the account listed there.



As you may notice, I also snipped a lot of text off of this answer. A wise person once told me not to try and match the length of responses of people with >17300 posts..


How convenient!

Also, picking on one's post count? How droll (not to mention unoriginal). :8

They don't make a difference between security data and customer privacy data. And of course they don't make an offer to take back the speakers after they now changed the rules. I still hope that somebody ( like a data privacy protector ) will open go to court and claim that Sonos is not following EU law. There should be a possibility to opt out or to get money back.


You signed a license agreement for the software. Rest assured, you are not getting your money back.
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They don't make a difference between security data and customer privacy data. And of course they don't make an offer to take back the speakers after they now changed the rules. I still hope that somebody ( like a data privacy protector ) will open go to court and claim that Sonos is not following EU law. There should be a possibility to opt out or to get money back.


You signed a license agreement for the software. Rest assured, you are not getting your money back.


They changed the licence agreement during the firmware upgrade. So normally this is a possibility to get out and cancel the contract. The problem is, that they don't take the speakers back. I think there need to be shift of thinking. You can't just change the product like you want after sold, because it is a possibility and easy to make. Sonos and other companies should need to think, what the customers want. I can't recommend Sonos any longer due to this behaviour. What will be the next they just do ? Tracking how many people use the system - easy as they know already the different devices.
Clearly knowing, when somebody is at home and when not - yes, easy to do with the current data.
As I said, there is no need to do so to function !

And if they need the temperature of the device , why do they need that on their server ? They would only need this in case of a failure but on the device only.

And simple stating that in a privacy document and explaining that the data is secure on their server - come on ! How many companies have also done that ?!
And you signed a License Agreement with the proviso that it is subject to change.

And once again, YOU CAN TURN OFF THE COLLECTION OF PERSONAL DATA!!! This includes system usage and temperature data. Besides, the temperature data is only used in a voluntary diagnostic.

I cannot stress this enough: READ THE PRIVACY POLICY!!!!

Any other questions?
Here Blurb, since you obviously haven't read it, you can opt out of collection of the following (notice it includes the very things you are worried about);

Performance Information. This includes things like temperature of your Product, Wi-Fi information such as signal strength, what music services you have connected to your Sonos system (including, for some services, your login username – but not password – for such service), information about how often you use the Sonos app versus another control mechanism, flow of interactions within the Sonos app, how often you use the physical controls on the unit, and location data when the Sonos app is in use, and duration of Sonos Product use.

Activity Information. This includes duration of music service use, Product or room grouping information; command information such as play, pause, change volume, or skip tracks; information about track, playlist, or station container data; and Sonos playlist or Sonos favorites information; each correlated to individual Sonos Products.

You can also request they delete all of this data they have collected so far. You know, from that account you never had but you really did?
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It might be, that the first time I used them, I accepted ( I never signed it ) an EULA for the usage of Sonos. At that time it was ok, but now they changed it and I was not able to stop the upgrade to prevent the new EULA. So it would be much better, when I would have had a choice to accept the new T's&C's or keep the old Software.
And of course do they still collect personal data: as explained a) it is not needed to send technical data out of my zone, b) also the technical data collect personal data: ID and what kind of music stream I am using etc. There is no opt out of this called functional data - why the hell do they need to know which stream I am using ?
It might be, that the first time I used them, I accepted ( I never signed it ) an EULA for the usage of Sonos. At that time it was ok, but now they changed it and I was not able to stop the upgrade to prevent the new EULA. So it would be much better, when I would have had a choice to accept the new T's&C's or keep the old Software.
And of course do they still collect personal data: as explained a) it is not needed to send technical data out of my zone, b) also the technical data collect personal data: ID and what kind of music stream I am using etc. There is no opt out of this called functional data - why the hell do they need to know which stream I am using ?


Uhhhhh, nope. If you opt out of Additional Data collection (the stuff above), they only collect the following (all of which is necessary for operating, updating and/or diagnosing your system):

Registration data. This data includes your email address, location, language preference, Product serial number, IP address, and Sonos account login information (as described above).

System data. This data includes things like Product type, controller device type, operating system of controller, software version information, content source (audio line in), signal input (for example, whether your TV outputs a specific audio signal such as Dolby to your Sonos system), information about wifi antennas, audio settings (such as equalization or stereo pair), Product orientation, room names you have assigned to your Sonos Product, whether your product has been tuned using Sonos Trueplay technology, and error information.

Nothing in there whatsoever about "what kind of music (you) stream".

Did I mention that you might want to read the Privacy Policy?
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Here Blurb, since you obviously haven't read it, you can opt out of collection of the following (notice it includes the very things you are worried about);

Performance Information. This includes things like temperature of your Product, Wi-Fi information such as signal strength, what music services you have connected to your Sonos system (including, for some services, your login username – but not password – for such service), information about how often you use the Sonos app versus another control mechanism, flow of interactions within the Sonos app, how often you use the physical controls on the unit, and location data when the Sonos app is in use, and duration of Sonos Product use.

Activity Information. This includes duration of music service use, Product or room grouping information; command information such as play, pause, change volume, or skip tracks; information about track, playlist, or station container data; and Sonos playlist or Sonos favorites information; each correlated to individual Sonos Products.

You can also request they delete all of this data they have collected so far. You know, from that account you never had but you really did?


Activity is easy to prevent in the app, but when I asked Support to delete all other data ( Performance Information) they stated, that then my Sonos will not work any longer. ( and of course, they will start to collect them again - so I need to ask them to delete them after every usage ? )


Activity is easy to prevent in the app, but when I asked Support to delete all other data ( Performance Information) they stated, that then my Sonos will not work any longer. ( and of course, they will start to collect them again - so I need to ask them to delete them after every usage ? )


Bzzzzzt. Wrong again. It will stop working without the Registration data and/or System data (see above), which is quite logical. You can ask them to delete the Performance data and they will happily oblige (or you can even do it yourself).

How to Access and Control Your Personal Information

You can view, edit or delete your personal data in either your Sonos account, Sonos app, or by reaching out to us directly to privacy@sonos.com. You can also make choices about Sonos' collection and use of your data by either logging in to your Sonos account or Sonos app and editing your profile, communication and data usage preference. You can always choose to stop receiving promotional emails and other types of marketing communication from us.
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Nothing in there whatsoever about "what kind of music (you) stream".
Did I mention that you might want to read the Privacy Policy?

I still have the privacy policy open and it is not clear, what is the content of e.g. the playlist they are collecting ( Name or just a number) Or why they are collecting the room names ? From a technical point the name would be only a list entry and they could minimize the data by collecting the number of items and devices connect to that item.
So I still have my doubt that an account is needed and that all the data they are collecting is also needed while the system is running.
And BTW: they are not stating, when they do a roll-over of the data. So clearly something they could improve - and then get rid of that account
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Activity is easy to prevent in the app, but when I asked Support to delete all other data ( Performance Information) they stated, that then my Sonos will not work any longer. ( and of course, they will start to collect them again - so I need to ask them to delete them after every usage ? )


Bzzzzzt. Wrong again. It will stop working without the Registration data and/or System data (see above), which is quite logical. You can ask them to delete the Performance data and they will happily oblige (or you can even do it yourself).

Maybe you find it wrong, but that is the official answer from Sonos. They told me , that the additional collected data is possible to delete, but not part of the technical data.
Now will Sonos just declare in the future some of the interesting data as technical data ? Who knows , as they change the rules afterwards without any risk for them it might be.
Once you have bought Sonos, the risk is all on your side - maybe tomorrow they decide that they don't support any longer some software or devices. They will not take back your old devices - sold is sold.
Today they just squeeze you to make a Sonos account - I have never thought that I would need one for the function of theses speakers.... but I don't want to restart now that discussion.

Nothing in there whatsoever about "what kind of music (you) stream".
Did I mention that you might want to read the Privacy Policy?

I still have the privacy policy open and it is not clear, what is the content of e.g. the playlist they are collecting ( Name or just a number) Or why they are collecting the room names ? From a technical point the name would be only a list entry and they could minimize the data by collecting the number of items and devices connect to that item.
So I still have my doubt that an account is needed and that all the data they are collecting is also needed while the system is running.
And BTW: they are not stating, when they do a roll-over of the data. So clearly something they could improve - and then get rid of that account


The room names are needed for diagnostics and support. You know "Try rebooting the Living Room Sonos" is much easier than saying "Try rebooting serial number 12345678C61CA".

And why are you still harping on the playlist stuff? The playlist stuff is in the Activity Information AND YOU CAN OPT OUT OF THEM COLLECTING THAT INFO!!!!
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I understand that the communication will be easier in case of a failure. But you don't need to collect the data during normal operations and send them to Sonos - it could be collected on the speakers and send in case when I want to do so.

And as stated , the Sonos Service has not given that option as an official statement - I will try that tomorrow