Sonos Account: No way!



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They already have changed a data privacy as they introduced their account for Sonos - which is their try to connect more data. It is a big laugh when they say: " ... to prevent to login in your system ... " as they would be able to do so in the apps instead of an account. No, I believe , that they want to collect more data and they already have announced that as in EU after May they have to do so ( otherwise they have to pay x% of their revenues ). So I still hope that somebody finds a hack to patch the software to get rid of that part. At the end it is a simple Linux system on the speaker ...

There has always been an account, you could not have set up Sonos without one, and the changes to the Privacy Policy were to include voice processing and update the data sharing to include voice/control partners. Nothing was changed about data collection or selling of data.

Read about it here:

https://blog.sonos.com/en/sonos-privacy/

Or view the Privacy Policy in its entirety here:

https://www.sonos.com/en-us/legal/privacy

It is all there in black and white if you wish to read it.
If they call tencent it is because Tencent Holdings Limited owns QQ Music, one of Sonos' Music Partners in China. Take off the tin-foil beanie.

Also, what ratty said.
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A burner account still counts as registration. So an account was required.
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As a victim of a home robbery, I appreciate the value of registering my electronics with an account. My registration of my devices was instrumental in catching the baddies.
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"looses"

It's always "looses".

I give up. :8


Good!

And if pointing out non-native speakers' spelling errors makes you feel good, I'll leave it as it is, so you're right at least once.

There is a huge difference between a system registering a HW ID, and a system that asks for a name and a mail. And cripples the hardware if that is not provided.


But they DID ask for a name and e-mail when you registered. Your system would have been "crippled" from the start without one. How do you think they got this data (I dare you to log in. Make sure you check the "Owner Since" date :D):

https://www.sonos.com/myaccount/mydata/


Personal authentication does not provide any added security.


Funny, there is another guy in here who argues constantly that authentication is absolutely necessary for security. You two should have a beer together.


This is just a made up reason to get to users' identities for data harvesting.


Sonos explains in great detail what data they "harvest" and what they do with it. They also allow you to opt out of the harvesting of all but the data necessary to operate/diagnose the system (Note: Diagnostic information is voluntary). Have you read this - https://www.sonos.com/en-us/legal/privacy - or are you just going off half cocked?


If Sonos are so serious about security, they could just provide automated painless firmware updates like any good router company. Cisco never asked me for my mail.
And patiently explaining such a concern is not wailing.


Yeah, if you have read the proper disclosures and are still complaining, it is most certainly wailing.

By the way, you skipped 'B" and an important part of 'C'. Nice snipping of that which doesn't fit your narrative.
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Funny, there is another guy in here who argues constantly that authentication is absolutely necessary for security. You two should have a beer together.


Funny, you are totally lying about the authentication that the other guy is asking for. Shame on you.
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There is a huge difference between a system registering a HW ID, and a system that asks for a name and a mail. And cripples the hardware if that is not provided.


But they DID ask for a name and e-mail when you registered. Your system would have been "crippled" from the start without one. How do you think they got this data (I dare you to log in. Make sure you check the "Owner Since" date :D):

https://www.sonos.com/myaccount/mydata/

Oooh, a dare! I cannot resist! Let's see. [clickity clak] - there it is: "You do not have any Sonos products registered to this account"

And I never had any other account linked to an email.


By the way, you skipped 'B" and an important part of 'C'. Nice snipping of that which doesn't fit your narrative.


As you may notice, I also snipped a lot of text off of this answer. A wise person once told me not to try and match the length of responses of people with >17300 posts..

They don't make a difference between security data and customer privacy data. And of course they don't make an offer to take back the speakers after they now changed the rules. I still hope that somebody ( like a data privacy protector ) will open go to court and claim that Sonos is not following EU law. There should be a possibility to opt out or to get money back.


You signed a license agreement for the software. Rest assured, you are not getting your money back.
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They don't make a difference between security data and customer privacy data. And of course they don't make an offer to take back the speakers after they now changed the rules. I still hope that somebody ( like a data privacy protector ) will open go to court and claim that Sonos is not following EU law. There should be a possibility to opt out or to get money back.


You signed a license agreement for the software. Rest assured, you are not getting your money back.


They changed the licence agreement during the firmware upgrade. So normally this is a possibility to get out and cancel the contract. The problem is, that they don't take the speakers back. I think there need to be shift of thinking. You can't just change the product like you want after sold, because it is a possibility and easy to make. Sonos and other companies should need to think, what the customers want. I can't recommend Sonos any longer due to this behaviour. What will be the next they just do ? Tracking how many people use the system - easy as they know already the different devices.
Clearly knowing, when somebody is at home and when not - yes, easy to do with the current data.
As I said, there is no need to do so to function !

And if they need the temperature of the device , why do they need that on their server ? They would only need this in case of a failure but on the device only.

And simple stating that in a privacy document and explaining that the data is secure on their server - come on ! How many companies have also done that ?!
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Do you want them ?
Could you guarantee they'd be free of all traces of DNA?

Sure , but shipping is not included - so guarantee ends, when I had it over to postal office ....
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Oh really? Be careful. There's already one poster in this thread who insisted the same, only to be wiping egg off their face.

I know you are a fanboy of Sonos ( maybe also paid by Sonos ?) , but I still don't believe you. There was only a registration account needed, for warranty etc. But nothing about an account to get the system up and running. So I assume the egg is dripping off your face ...
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Please remember to keep things polite, everyone. This topic has a tendency to get heated and I want to remind everyone that there's no need to make the thread unwelcoming to anyone.

It's been stated before, but I'd like to re-iterate for anyone new to the conversation that Sonos players have always required a registration step as part of the set up process. Anonymous email accounts or even fake ones would have worked previously because the field just needed to be filled in with something that looked like an email, but that step did always exist in order to get music services and updates. The change recently is that we've added a step requiring systems to be linked with an email verified, password protected account. This protects your Sonos account, data, and system as a precautionary measure.

We first implemented this account linking to facilitate seamless integration with cloud services like Amazon Alexa, Spotify, and Deezer. A Sonos account gives you complete access to the full Sonos experience and another layer of protection for your system. Since then, we made it mandatory for all systems.

I know there are some questions about privacy, and I'd encourage you to take a look at our privacy policy if you haven't yet. We're clear about what data is collected, and how to opt out of what you can. If you still have any questions or concerns, please feel free to give us a call.
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The change recently is that we've added a step requiring systems to be linked with an email verified, password protected account. This protects your Sonos account, data, and system as a precautionary measure.
Ryan, could you please explain this in a bit more detail?

Let's assume I was interested in using a ZP80 as a media streamer for my local NAS to my main amplifier/speaker system, with no need for streaming. What would have to be "protected" in this case?

I am interested in having the firmware consistently updated, and my local track database secure. I don't see how an account would be a benefit in this.

We first implemented this account linking to facilitate seamless integration with cloud services like Amazon Alexa, Spotify, and Deezer. A Sonos account gives you complete access to the full Sonos experience and another layer of protection for your system. Since then, we made it mandatory for all systems.
That is the problem. I don't care about streaming services, and bought my systems at a time where there was no such thing as Spotify. You requiring an account now essentially bricks these (expensive) devices even for local streaming.

I know there are some questions about privacy ...
Privacy is only half the problem. Even assuming I trusted your company, I would have to then trust that you're able to secure your main databases. And there is a long line of examples that that kind of trust is just not warranted.

Let's assume I was interested in using a ZP80 as a media streamer for my local NAS to my main amplifier/speaker system, with no need for streaming. What would have to be "protected" in this case?

I am interested in having the firmware consistently updated, and my local track database secure. I don't see how an account would be a benefit in this.


You aren't the typical customer though. There are not that many customers left who use local libraries, don't use any streaming services, and have the same privacy concerns that you do. What you're saying is that Sonos needs to have their firmware geared to your specific needs/wants. While they probably could have put in some logic so that accounts were not required under the specific circumstances, it probably would have been wasted effort for the vast majority of customers, and would have taken limited resources on the older units.


We first implemented this account linking to facilitate seamless integration with cloud services like Amazon Alexa, Spotify, and Deezer. A Sonos account gives you complete access to the full Sonos experience and another layer of protection for your system. Since then, we made it mandatory for all systems.
That is the problem. I don't care about streaming services, and bought my systems at a time where there was no such thing as Spotify. You requiring an account now essentially bricks these (expensive) devices even for local streaming.


Again, you are far from the typical customer though. I also bought my Sonos at a time before their were streaming services, and loved it for what it was. However, if they had not grown with the times, and included streaming services, my Sonos would have effectively been bricked as far as I'm concerned. I would have moved off Sonos to a more modern system. If Sonos hadn't integrated with voice series, again, I would have looked into a system that did. Even if Sonos had left the old line of products alone, and only enabled modern services with new products, I would have likely moved off Sonos since I couldn't leverage the products I already have.

From your perspective, it's a problem, but from the perspective of the vast majority of customers, it's the solution. From Sonos perspective, it's the only way that can continue to do business.

I would not be too surprised though if years from now, technology and privacy concerns grow to the point where companies and their products stop depending on accounts and cloud computing so heavily and become more self contained again. I'll be happy when it gets here.
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Hey Blurb, I thought you were selling your Sonos?
I think about it, but the prices are down. The loss is too high at the moment and I still have no buy-back offer from Sonos. Cross the fingers for me, maybe it will show up in short ...
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I think about it, but the prices are down. The loss is too high at the moment and I still have no buy-back offer from Sonos. Cross the fingers for me, maybe it will show up in short ...


They reportedly bought back devices last year when they updated their privacy policy so not without precedent.
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Thanks for your statement, I think you are right. Because I'm restricting my personell information as far as I can, I feel pretty save, even if some companies were hacked, e.g. I don't have an facebook account. And statements of companies ... I would not rely on this. You remember when Facebook bought Whatsapp? 🙂 As I heard that they will not combine data of both companies, bc. technically it's not possible - I laughed out loud. I'm a technican, I do it all day long. Maybe I should have offered my service? 😉
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Of course, Sonos could very well change their privacy policy in the future, and sell your data to everyone... or they could be acquired and the new corporate overlords could sell it all... though with many Sonos music services requiring paid subscriptions to use Sonos with their service, resulting in ad-free listening through those services, I'm not sure how marketable much of the data they might have really is.

Obviously not everything is ad-free... TuneIn, iHeartRadio, AccuRadio, and others still have ads... but those services all have ways of knowing what you're listening to anyway, since you're going through their service. So I'm really not sure what data Sonos might have that the music services themselves don't already have... other than data on other music services.


Thats the point. The data collected by Sonos is very valuable to them, but I don't see any 3th party that doesn't already have the same data and would be interested in having that data.
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That's the point. I loved SONOS. That's the reason our house is full of them and I spent so much money.
And of course I used a one way account only for SONOS.
In german groups there was the hint to use the law "Datenschutzgrundverordnung" (I think that's something like GDPR or similar) to request all collected data from myself stored by SONOS and then request SONOS to delete them all. That's the right of everybody (in Europe). And if this is done by many of their (european!) customers, costs for maintaining these requests will be compared to the money, they could get, by selling them to somebody else sometimes. And maybe it will not pay off.
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Thanks for sharing, everyone. I'll pass your feedback along to the team. Also, please remember to keep things friendly with each other.

This account linking protects your Sonos account and system with a username and password, and an email verification step. We also implemented this account linking to facilitate seamless integration with cloud services like Amazon Alexa, Spotify, and Deezer. Sonos systems have always had a registration step as part of the setup, which linked your system with an account. That was a step which set your registration location to get access to local music services and to get updates. The change is to add a password to that account or link it to a different account, like the one you're using here on the community which could be different from the one your system is registered under.

A Sonos account gives you complete access to the full Sonos experience and another layer of protection for your system.

I know there are some questions about privacy, and I'd encourage you to take a look at our privacy policy here. If you still have any questions or concerns, please feel free to give us a call.
My first thought today after the update to Sonos 9.0 was: Why do I need an account for your Software, after it worked nearly 10 years without? [...]
An account was already needed back in 2013, when I bought my first Sonos gear.
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For example, the argument goes that that if a device *could* work without registration, then it *must* be allowed to work without registration, and that coercing this unnecessarily is a straight-up GDPR violation.

I am loathe to get into a discussion on the technicalities of GDPR, but this seems to be a particularly tortured interpretation of the requirement.

There's a presumption here that an unlimited burden is placed upon the data controller to devise a solution that doesn't require the consent for data collection. That's not accurate. You can't contrive a scenario where you bundle other requirements to grant collection for all of the uses, but again, there's no requirement that processes be redesigned to function without data collection. The very concept of how that would be adjudicated is mind numbing.
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There's no requirement that processes be redesigned to function without data collection. The very concept of how that would be adjudicated is mind numbing.

Setting aside that no true lawyer is afraid of a long, drawn-out, mind-numbing process (because think of all the fees); it would be relatively straightforward to demonstrate in some cases, including this one, in which it is fundamentally that "the devices worked anonymously for a decade; the change of processes to demand registration started only from 2017". - making it very easy to paint Sonos as just another branch of American Consumer Surveillance, Inc.
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There's no requirement that processes be redesigned to function without data collection. The very concept of how that would be adjudicated is mind numbing.

Setting aside that no true lawyer is afraid of a long, drawn-out, mind-numbing process (because think of all the fees); it would be relatively straightforward to demonstrate in some cases, including this one, in which it is fundamentally that "the devices worked anonymously for a decade; the change of processes to demand registration started only from 2017". - making it very easy to paint Sonos as just another branch of American Consumer Surveillance, Inc.


This is incorrect. Already a decade+ ago everyone was required to register their Sonos system in order for it to work.