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Unresponsive Sonos Support



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@Nick A.

Every deviation of a feature also means higher support cost and extended test times for the manufacturer due to increased complexity. I am not saying that list functions fall into that (the Sonos controller could have a dedicated page under Advanced System Options that allows to change views without adding buttons on the actual search screen.

This said, on the design philosophy i am with Sonos and the focus on simplicity. My analogy might be off, but many of the most regarded products in the audio industry are those with rather sparing feature/configuration options like McIntosh, B&O, Dynaco, Krell but provide stellar audio experience. Neither company would even remotely dream about changing their philosophy thats been proven successful. 
Badge +3
hi John,

it’s very refreshing to see Sonos more open about some of their thinking and decisions.  Obviously you need to keep new product developments to yourselves but I think having an open discussion about software enhancements can only be a good thing and unlikely to give your competitors an edge (quite the opposite in fact when it comes to customer engagement/satisfaction)

I have a few personal gripes and would really like some more clarification/explanation around these issues:

 - Full Audio when using TV as a music source


https://ask.sonos.com/sonos/topics/full-stereo-option-when-watching-tv-audio-please

I run a lot of music via my Smart TV or devices connected to it e.g. Youtube, Spotify (using Spotify Connect), Satellite Music channels etc through my Playbar/sub/surrounds.  I would love the option to have full audio from all speakers the same like it is when using a music source in sonos.  A toggle alongside night mode/speech enhancement would easily solve this (only valid for PCM).  TVs are coming more and more the hub of home entertainment (video and audio) so its makes perfect sense to offer the same music options for TV audio as when a music service via Sonos is the source.  Take for example Spotify now being available on a PS3/PS4 - even the free version (!) - users should be able to utilise all their speakers for the music when connected via the PS+TV.

 

- Spotify / Spotify Connect - https://ask.sonos.com/sonos/topics/support_spotify_connect_to_allow_users_to_use_the_spotify_app_as_...

I know you replied on this previously but it was rather lacking in detail - any timeline to extend the Spotify integration in Sonos ? For Google Play Music you support both playback direct from the native app (but android only) AND via Google Music as a service in Sonos.  Why wouldnt you offer this also for Spotify since the technology is available ? I dont see any difference between the offering of Google and the offering of Spotify - in fact Spotify Connect is more 'multi-platform' since it integrates from ios, android, pc and mac.  The arguments for one (for and against) surely apply to the other so I dont understand why you support one but not the other.  There are so many 'ideas' for this and that missing spotify function which could all be fulfilled by Spotify Connect very quickly whilst giving more time to add the missing features into the Spotify service within the app.

 

- Options, Options !

I was interested in your comment 'Why not make this a toggled option?  Well, that likely comes down to our general approach to design, which is to avoid adding multitudes of options.'

This seems a rather short-sighted approach.  There are a multitude of options that could be applied which would improve the overall experience for many people.  You said yourself (or someone from Sonos did) with the 5.0 release that it was difficult to appease one group of users without upsetting another.  If Sonos are to remain competitive in this digital age you need to appease both groups by means of options !  There can be no 'one size fits all' solution because it never will.  Most people these days are well aware (and pleased) to have software options to configure whatever it is to their specific needs.

Take for example the 'List view' (small artwork icons, more text) vs 'Full Album Art View' (large icons, less text) - an option for this would keep both camps happy whereas now you just have a happy camp and an annoyed camp !

Yes, there will be some development/ongoing maintenance overhead to every option but this is 'not beyond the wit of man'.

Other options could include (but not limited to):

- Show album art in tablet queue

- Mute button = Mute this zone or Pause All zones (OR Short press = Mute this zone, Long press = Pause All zones)

- Clear played songs from the queue (yes/no)

- Party mode (on/off) - limited set of actions when On (passcode or quit to disable)

  - IOS lock screen/widget

have you given up on this idea now or is it still being investigated ?

 

I agree with the others that this is a great platform but could be better utilised.  Technical Support from Sonos is excellent but the 'Ideas' should be better moderated to ensure similar ideas are merged and more ideas have an official response.  There are often many duplicate ideas which means that weight of the 'followers' is lost due to being spread over multiple entries.  Maybe you could permit the 'Champions' to merge ideas to help the Sonos staff out ?

Keep up the great work !


@NickA

Hi Nick, nice to hear from you again.  A few comments on the points you brought up:

Full Audio when using TV as Music source - 

This is an interesting thread and we've been keeping an eye on it ever since our last chat about the topic a few months ago.  I think you're right - the humble home television set is becoming more of a media / entertainment hub, although currently it's a fairly chaotic and fragmented transition.  

For this setting, most likely a toggle option is the only way to go.  There's no way we could differentiate versus music content and TV content which is coming in via optical, so it would be up to the user to make a manual selection each time.  While that would offer benefits for those who are frequently listening to music via TV like yourself, it's one more thing to remember when switching over to a movie or TV show.

It's a good one - definitely worth our time to review and discuss in more detail.

Spotify Connect -

I'm afraid I can't say much more about Spotify Connect that hasn't already been said. We're deeply committed to our partnership with Spotify and we're working to bring the experience when using Spotify on Sonos closer to the Spotify native app.  There's no further information which I can share now, but I assure you that when there's news, you'll be hearing from us.

Options - 

I can tell that customization and options are going to be a big topic here.  I'd venture that many of the people that regularly on this space are what you might call a 'power-user.'  Something we noticed during the last beta program (which was focused on user experience) is that people have very different lists of what they want to see out of the same app.  There's good points on both sides, and a lot of future discussion is likely to take place in the context of individual features.

iOS lockscreen widget-

As many of our beta testers know, a widget was present in a few early revisions, but ultimately needed to be pulled from the final version.  At the moment, there are barriers to us getting the function to work the way it should, but it may be possible some day.
Userlevel 6
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hi John,

it’s very refreshing to see Sonos more open about some of their thinking and decisions.  Obviously you need to keep new product developments to yourselves but I think having an open discussion about software enhancements can only be a good thing and unlikely to give your competitors an edge (quite the opposite in fact when it comes to customer engagement/satisfaction)

I have a few personal gripes and would really like some more clarification/explanation around these issues:

 - Full Audio when using TV as a music source


https://ask.sonos.com/sonos/topics/full-stereo-option-when-watching-tv-audio-please

I run a lot of music via my Smart TV or devices connected to it e.g. Youtube, Spotify (using Spotify Connect), Satellite Music channels etc through my Playbar/sub/surrounds.  I would love the option to have full audio from all speakers the same like it is when using a music source in sonos.  A toggle alongside night mode/speech enhancement would easily solve this (only valid for PCM).  TVs are coming more and more the hub of home entertainment (video and audio) so its makes perfect sense to offer the same music options for TV audio as when a music service via Sonos is the source.  Take for example Spotify now being available on a PS3/PS4 - even the free version (!) - users should be able to utilise all their speakers for the music when connected via the PS+TV.

 

- Spotify / Spotify Connect - https://ask.sonos.com/sonos/topics/support_spotify_connect_to_allow_users_to_use_the_spotify_app_as_...

I know you replied on this previously but it was rather lacking in detail - any timeline to extend the Spotify integration in Sonos ? For Google Play Music you support both playback direct from the native app (but android only) AND via Google Music as a service in Sonos.  Why wouldnt you offer this also for Spotify since the technology is available ? I dont see any difference between the offering of Google and the offering of Spotify - in fact Spotify Connect is more 'multi-platform' since it integrates from ios, android, pc and mac.  The arguments for one (for and against) surely apply to the other so I dont understand why you support one but not the other.  There are so many 'ideas' for this and that missing spotify function which could all be fulfilled by Spotify Connect very quickly whilst giving more time to add the missing features into the Spotify service within the app.

 

- Options, Options !

I was interested in your comment 'Why not make this a toggled option?  Well, that likely comes down to our general approach to design, which is to avoid adding multitudes of options.'

This seems a rather short-sighted approach.  There are a multitude of options that could be applied which would improve the overall experience for many people.  You said yourself (or someone from Sonos did) with the 5.0 release that it was difficult to appease one group of users without upsetting another.  If Sonos are to remain competitive in this digital age you need to appease both groups by means of options !  There can be no 'one size fits all' solution because it never will.  Most people these days are well aware (and pleased) to have software options to configure whatever it is to their specific needs.

Take for example the 'List view' (small artwork icons, more text) vs 'Full Album Art View' (large icons, less text) - an option for this would keep both camps happy whereas now you just have a happy camp and an annoyed camp !

Yes, there will be some development/ongoing maintenance overhead to every option but this is 'not beyond the wit of man'.

Other options could include (but not limited to):

- Show album art in tablet queue

- Mute button = Mute this zone or Pause All zones (OR Short press = Mute this zone, Long press = Pause All zones)

- Clear played songs from the queue (yes/no)

- Party mode (on/off) - limited set of actions when On (passcode or quit to disable)

  - IOS lock screen/widget

have you given up on this idea now or is it still being investigated ?

 

I agree with the others that this is a great platform but could be better utilised.  Technical Support from Sonos is excellent but the 'Ideas' should be better moderated to ensure similar ideas are merged and more ideas have an official response.  There are often many duplicate ideas which means that weight of the 'followers' is lost due to being spread over multiple entries.  Maybe you could permit the 'Champions' to merge ideas to help the Sonos staff out ?

Keep up the great work !


John, Does Apple even allow Widgets that appear directly on the lock screen? (I know that you can have widgets in the notification center which would be great to have and so would a lock screen widget (and thanks for updating us on this))
Badge +3
One final comment before I sign off for the day.  I'd like to thank you on behalf of everyone here for sharing your thoughts in this thread, and for participating in this discussion.  There's lots of great learning from us about what you'd like to see from us, where you'd like us to be more involved, and how we can engage in productive discussion with each other.

One of the most frequent threads running through your comments is that you'd like more participation and discussion from us in idea threads.  We also have some cleanup to do and a bit more organization is necessary.   Next week, we'll go through some of the individual topics raised here, and provide some updates in the threads, as well as making sure we find some of the stragglers and get them merged.

Hope you all have a great weekend, and again, our thanks for your participation here.
Userlevel 6
Badge +16
Thank you for being quite open about all this John 😉
Badge +3
hi John,

it’s very refreshing to see Sonos more open about some of their thinking and decisions.  Obviously you need to keep new product developments to yourselves but I think having an open discussion about software enhancements can only be a good thing and unlikely to give your competitors an edge (quite the opposite in fact when it comes to customer engagement/satisfaction)

I have a few personal gripes and would really like some more clarification/explanation around these issues:

 - Full Audio when using TV as a music source


https://ask.sonos.com/sonos/topics/full-stereo-option-when-watching-tv-audio-please

I run a lot of music via my Smart TV or devices connected to it e.g. Youtube, Spotify (using Spotify Connect), Satellite Music channels etc through my Playbar/sub/surrounds.  I would love the option to have full audio from all speakers the same like it is when using a music source in sonos.  A toggle alongside night mode/speech enhancement would easily solve this (only valid for PCM).  TVs are coming more and more the hub of home entertainment (video and audio) so its makes perfect sense to offer the same music options for TV audio as when a music service via Sonos is the source.  Take for example Spotify now being available on a PS3/PS4 - even the free version (!) - users should be able to utilise all their speakers for the music when connected via the PS+TV.

 

- Spotify / Spotify Connect - https://ask.sonos.com/sonos/topics/support_spotify_connect_to_allow_users_to_use_the_spotify_app_as_...

I know you replied on this previously but it was rather lacking in detail - any timeline to extend the Spotify integration in Sonos ? For Google Play Music you support both playback direct from the native app (but android only) AND via Google Music as a service in Sonos.  Why wouldnt you offer this also for Spotify since the technology is available ? I dont see any difference between the offering of Google and the offering of Spotify - in fact Spotify Connect is more 'multi-platform' since it integrates from ios, android, pc and mac.  The arguments for one (for and against) surely apply to the other so I dont understand why you support one but not the other.  There are so many 'ideas' for this and that missing spotify function which could all be fulfilled by Spotify Connect very quickly whilst giving more time to add the missing features into the Spotify service within the app.

 

- Options, Options !

I was interested in your comment 'Why not make this a toggled option?  Well, that likely comes down to our general approach to design, which is to avoid adding multitudes of options.'

This seems a rather short-sighted approach.  There are a multitude of options that could be applied which would improve the overall experience for many people.  You said yourself (or someone from Sonos did) with the 5.0 release that it was difficult to appease one group of users without upsetting another.  If Sonos are to remain competitive in this digital age you need to appease both groups by means of options !  There can be no 'one size fits all' solution because it never will.  Most people these days are well aware (and pleased) to have software options to configure whatever it is to their specific needs.

Take for example the 'List view' (small artwork icons, more text) vs 'Full Album Art View' (large icons, less text) - an option for this would keep both camps happy whereas now you just have a happy camp and an annoyed camp !

Yes, there will be some development/ongoing maintenance overhead to every option but this is 'not beyond the wit of man'.

Other options could include (but not limited to):

- Show album art in tablet queue

- Mute button = Mute this zone or Pause All zones (OR Short press = Mute this zone, Long press = Pause All zones)

- Clear played songs from the queue (yes/no)

- Party mode (on/off) - limited set of actions when On (passcode or quit to disable)

  - IOS lock screen/widget

have you given up on this idea now or is it still being investigated ?

 

I agree with the others that this is a great platform but could be better utilised.  Technical Support from Sonos is excellent but the 'Ideas' should be better moderated to ensure similar ideas are merged and more ideas have an official response.  There are often many duplicate ideas which means that weight of the 'followers' is lost due to being spread over multiple entries.  Maybe you could permit the 'Champions' to merge ideas to help the Sonos staff out ?

Keep up the great work !


Ah, yes - you're right.  On iOS 8, a Widget refers to the notification center, not the lock screen.  The controls being tested were on the lock screen.
Userlevel 5
Badge +2
One final comment before I sign off for the day.  I'd like to thank you on behalf of everyone here for sharing your thoughts in this thread, and for participating in this discussion.  There's lots of great learning from us about what you'd like to see from us, where you'd like us to be more involved, and how we can engage in productive discussion with each other.

One of the most frequent threads running through your comments is that you'd like more participation and discussion from us in idea threads.  We also have some cleanup to do and a bit more organization is necessary.   Next week, we'll go through some of the individual topics raised here, and provide some updates in the threads, as well as making sure we find some of the stragglers and get them merged.

Hope you all have a great weekend, and again, our thanks for your participation here.

@John M

Thank you for taking the time to add some clarity on many of the questions floating around in this and other treads as well.

I do have a follow up for you:
Google Play Music does this now - you can select this as an option directly from the GPM Android App.  We're pretty big fans of this functionality but there's nothing to share at the moment about wider availability.I can understand the excitement at Sonos around that - the technology obviously works.

However, as Google continues to expand its own ecosystem around desktop/mobile operating systems, browser and service offerings it also continues to focus inward towards its own platforms. Essentially it leaves the outside integration for iOS, OSX, Windows, Windows Mobile to its channel partners and independent developers. 

There is no common incentive among streaming provider to make this a common (de facto) standard.

So where does this leave your customers when at the same time Bluetooth being essentially ruled out, and AirPlay handled as any other line-in device.
Userlevel 7
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Hi John,

Thanks for the reply, this kind of engagement is exactly what I was talking about when I said that you may be missing a trick with this site. The fact you have taken the time to sit down and respond to our concerns has nullified a great deal of the frustration I was feeling toward Sonos when I started posting on this thread. I'm not going to start listing my personal favourite causes as they all have their own threads and are fairly obvious if you look at my history.

Trying to stay on course I do have a few suggestions though. Perhaps what you have said here could be codified into some sort of policy and made more apparent to people on all threads. Some sort of sticky post that appears at the top of all pages outlining what you have said here would I think be a good plan (if technically possible).

The other problem you referred to was that engagement with many threads was minimal as there is no definitive answer. Can't argue with that but perhaps a commitment to update the top unimplemented requests with something official once every three months or so. Even "nothing to share at the minute" re-enforces that the thread is being monitored and would counteract the feeling that the idea is simply being ignored for whatever reason.

Just my two-pennies worth.

Cheers.

As Dave mentioned, this site has some major limitations (such as no stickys) that probably makes the perception of lack of Sonos participation.  Many Sonos comments get lost after a few days of posts.
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My opinion on toggles - except for the Stereo/Surround toggle which should be in the main part of the controller beside night mode.... I think the rest should be in an Advanced User Menu with warnings and a return to default button. 
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John M,

First, than you for replying.  I have not seen this anywhere else in any of the support forums.  You should close the older forums.sonos.com with a pointer here if this is the official location now.

I've noticed that people tend to think adding this would be quick & easy - it's not.
I do not expect any of this fast.  My issue is that several of them have been requested literally years ago, per the logs here and in the forums, so time was not the issue.

Have you ever looked at Stitcher?  It's a music service for podcasts and has a fairly robust app and Sonos integration.
Stitcher has problems with the number of supported podcasts (those that will use its format), audio compression of podcasts, etc.  I looked at it, but was not impressed and found podcasts missing.

I want a way do the equivalent of what I do with Dogcatcher on my Android phone (and iTunes before that).  I want to be able to download and play shows I have not heard.  I could even live with playing all shows in a feed at times.  I do not expect Sonos to write that app, but it should work with something that does so.

This has been requested for some time, so it is still not an issue of quick response.

This is a good one.  We currently treat all files the same without a distinguishing between audio / spoken word.  The implementation here would likely depend on whether or not you'd want audio books synced across devices (including Sonos).I would really like to be able to use Audible the way I do on my phone, tablet, etc.  Though even allowing the option of marking a specific item or type of item (based on a tag) would help.  iTunes has allowed that for years.

This sounds like a problem, something isn't working correctly.  We'll be happy to work with you, I'll create a ticket with our team for you.I put something in the forums on it, but it is quite confusing where to report it.

My suspicion is that it has hit some connection problem and reentering the password gets it to truly try and connect again, which works fine.  Some internal flag is probably being set that the connection/system is down and that can only be reset in limited ways.
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Hi everyone, I'm going to be responding to each of you in an individual comment below this reply, I'll @ your username in each.  We're starting to reach the point where navigating the thread is a bit of a challenge, so bear with me.

Finding the right balance between flexibility and simplicity is probably one of the hardest tasks of anyone who works in design.  We tend towards the side of simplicity, and think it makes Sonos easier to start using for most people, but acknowledge there are many users like yourself that would appreciate more customization options.  
You could get by with this if you were Apple and even they only get by with this to a point.

Some things could be "hidden" behind and "expert mode" to minimize confusion to simpler users.  Others are obvious tweaks that should be present in even a somewhat configurable mode.

And Sonos doesn't really follow this.  Why can I not setup different room grouping easily?  What about volume levels?

I may want to run the speakers in my bedroom and its bathroom at night at a low volume for something quietly in the background, with a louder use from all speakers during the day.

That is a very manual process today.  How is that keeping with your "simplification" philosophy?

I could bring up other things, but this is one thing that is glaring.
Userlevel 1
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Hi John,

Thanks for the reply, this kind of engagement is exactly what I was talking about when I said that you may be missing a trick with this site. The fact you have taken the time to sit down and respond to our concerns has nullified a great deal of the frustration I was feeling toward Sonos when I started posting on this thread. I'm not going to start listing my personal favourite causes as they all have their own threads and are fairly obvious if you look at my history.

Trying to stay on course I do have a few suggestions though. Perhaps what you have said here could be codified into some sort of policy and made more apparent to people on all threads. Some sort of sticky post that appears at the top of all pages outlining what you have said here would I think be a good plan (if technically possible).

The other problem you referred to was that engagement with many threads was minimal as there is no definitive answer. Can't argue with that but perhaps a commitment to update the top unimplemented requests with something official once every three months or so. Even "nothing to share at the minute" re-enforces that the thread is being monitored and would counteract the feeling that the idea is simply being ignored for whatever reason.

Just my two-pennies worth.

Cheers.

The root problem is that they should not let thing hang so long.  I would appreciate regular updates, but having a thread with 8 or more "nothing to report" posts would probably not be good either.  Perhaps better than no response other than a "we are looking into it and think it is a good idea" post 2 years ago, but lots of nothing is not good either.

I suspect that a list of requested items that gets updated at least quarterly would be a better approach.  That way people could look for the items that were most important to them and likely see progress on at least some, even if others remained in the "no action" area.
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Hi everyone, I'm going to be responding to each of you in an individual comment below this reply, I'll @ your username in each.  We're starting to reach the point where navigating the thread is a bit of a challenge, so bear with me.

Hi Brad, thanks for joining the thread and your comments.  

When you say the grouping and volume is too manual, can you elaborate?  Is it too many clicks or is the issue that you find yourself needing to group and ungroup too often?

I'm also curious to hear from you about what you would want to see in terms of a solution.  There's threads on pre-set groupings, that's one way, and I've also seen suggestions for essentially 'behavioral learning'.
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Hi everyone, I'm going to be responding to each of you in an individual comment below this reply, I'll @ your username in each.  We're starting to reach the point where navigating the thread is a bit of a challenge, so bear with me.

I will put in my vote for the permanent grouping ability...and drag and drop grouping
Badge +3
Hi John,

Thanks for the reply, this kind of engagement is exactly what I was talking about when I said that you may be missing a trick with this site. The fact you have taken the time to sit down and respond to our concerns has nullified a great deal of the frustration I was feeling toward Sonos when I started posting on this thread. I'm not going to start listing my personal favourite causes as they all have their own threads and are fairly obvious if you look at my history.

Trying to stay on course I do have a few suggestions though. Perhaps what you have said here could be codified into some sort of policy and made more apparent to people on all threads. Some sort of sticky post that appears at the top of all pages outlining what you have said here would I think be a good plan (if technically possible).

The other problem you referred to was that engagement with many threads was minimal as there is no definitive answer. Can't argue with that but perhaps a commitment to update the top unimplemented requests with something official once every three months or so. Even "nothing to share at the minute" re-enforces that the thread is being monitored and would counteract the feeling that the idea is simply being ignored for whatever reason.

Just my two-pennies worth.

Cheers.

@Brad Andrew

Ultimately, that's what we're trying to balance.  The community is always going to be ahead of us in terms of how quickly requests can be made vs. how quickly they can be implemented (let alone implemented well).

Not having any updates at all isn't good, but as you say, having 8-9 updates saying the essentially the same thing isn't good either.  We've been erring on the side of not updating often and waiting to post until there's an announcement, which creates the impression that requests aren't being heard.

For the immediate future, we're looking to provide updates on some of the older threads and to chime in so people don't feel like they're being ignored.  That's definitely not what we want.
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Hi John,

Thanks for the reply, this kind of engagement is exactly what I was talking about when I said that you may be missing a trick with this site. The fact you have taken the time to sit down and respond to our concerns has nullified a great deal of the frustration I was feeling toward Sonos when I started posting on this thread. I'm not going to start listing my personal favourite causes as they all have their own threads and are fairly obvious if you look at my history.

Trying to stay on course I do have a few suggestions though. Perhaps what you have said here could be codified into some sort of policy and made more apparent to people on all threads. Some sort of sticky post that appears at the top of all pages outlining what you have said here would I think be a good plan (if technically possible).

The other problem you referred to was that engagement with many threads was minimal as there is no definitive answer. Can't argue with that but perhaps a commitment to update the top unimplemented requests with something official once every three months or so. Even "nothing to share at the minute" re-enforces that the thread is being monitored and would counteract the feeling that the idea is simply being ignored for whatever reason.

Just my two-pennies worth.

Cheers.

That sounds like progress and I'm sure the community will appreciate more feedback and input from sonos.
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Hi everyone, I'm going to be responding to each of you in an individual comment below this reply, I'll @ your username in each.  We're starting to reach the point where navigating the thread is a bit of a challenge, so bear with me.

One of the best topics: Virtual Grouping!

The software should allow to group a user defined combination of players along with default volume and equalizer settings that can be saved as a profile and reapplied on demand. Ideally it would also allow to include subwoofer and calibration settings as well.

Lets assume a customer has a Sonos 5.1 Setup with Playbar, Sub, a pair of Play1.
They also have a pair of Play3 in an adjoining room with open floor plan.

The grouping should allow to assign the subwoofer to the Play3 pair, calibrate the sub once, set level and equalizer preferences and store it as a group setting.

When the user turns on the TV the sub should default back to the original group
it belongs to with the Playbar and the Play1 pair.

There must obviously be some notification for users that say "hey i can't use the sub in multiple groups at the same time, which profile you want to use?. Choose from the list ..."
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Hi everyone, I'm going to be responding to each of you in an individual comment below this reply, I'll @ your username in each.  We're starting to reach the point where navigating the thread is a bit of a challenge, so bear with me.

I would like it so you can unbond the Playbar from the group so Play 1's or 3's and sub bonded for Music and rebond (regroup) Playbar for TV
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Hi everyone, I'm going to be responding to each of you in an individual comment below this reply, I'll @ your username in each.  We're starting to reach the point where navigating the thread is a bit of a challenge, so bear with me.

@John M

Yes that is one of the threads on the topic. Here are some of the others:

https://ask.sonos.com/sonos/topics/let_us_add_mobile_device_iphone_ipad_etc_songs_to_sonos_playlist
https://ask.sonos.com/sonos/topics/save_playlist_from_mobile_device
https://ask.sonos.com/sonos/topics/i_would_like_to_be_able_to_create_a_sonos_playlist_containing_mus...
https://ask.sonos.com/sonos/topics/cannot-save-playlist-issue
https://ask.sonos.com/sonos/topics/saving_playlists-182b81
https://ask.sonos.com/sonos/topics/unable-to-save-playlists
https://ask.sonos.com/sonos/topics/help-newbie

I wonder how many other Sonos users would like the ability for their tablets to be used in this manner. Using a tablet in a fixed position can't be too unique given that these companies (and many others) -http://www.ipadwallbracket.com/ - http://www.noushouse.com.au/store/product-list.php?iPad-Wall-Mounts-Desk-Mounts-for-Smart-Homes-pg1-... - seems to be surviving.

I suppose my frustration stems from the fact that I setup my home Sonos network with a NAS to serve the music and the ability to control the network from my desktop, laptops, tablets and phones. Using it this way there was nothing that lead me to think it wasn't possible to use any of these devices as the music server. So then when I decided to put a simple Sonos network in my holiday house I bought a tablet for the purpose, only to find that there was a gotcha that wasn't evident until it was too late. There is a limit to the amount of research you should need to do before purchasing.

The only other place I need my music is while touring (yep, I'm an old retired guy) and a cloud service does not cut it at all when travelling in Australia unless you are in the cities. We have vast geographic expanses with no coverage. Having music stored on the cloud just means it isn't available off the beaten track. As far as I'm concerned streaming can't be relied upon, for example, even this morning the streaming radio I was listening to via Sonos was cutting out, presumably due to ISP network congestion.

I think the toggle option should be considered, as it is easy to leave the defaults as Sonos believes they should be for common setups, with the advanced options tucked away where people who don't need them never have to venture.

The cumbersome workaround I have come up with, that seems to work, is to create playlists in iTunes on my desktop. In iTunes I then export each of the playlists to an individual .m3u playlist file. I then copy all of these .m3u files into the tablet's Playlist folder and then the Sonos app finds the playlists and plays them even though it is the same folder where I tried placing the .xml file containing all the playlists which the Sonos couldn't find.

Is this the expected behaviour for the Sonos app?
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Apple provides new features far more often than Sonos does, even allowing for the size of the user base.

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