Question

Spotify folders gone in iOS v5.4 and v5.5


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In the last 2 releases of both the Mac and iOS Controller app (version 5.4 and 5.5), Spotify folders have been removed. Which is beyond baffling.

I've submitted feedback and diagnostics through Sonos and have been looking for either:

1) an update to bring folders back or
2) a source to revert back to the good ol' days of 5.3

I have over 50 playlists so having a large list is really un-helpful.

34 replies

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This seems more like a Spotify change, as Sonos mentioned they're using a 'new architecture' with Spotify, which probably means new APIs. Spotify might not have an API available for displaying folders, but who knows.
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Thanks for the clarifying answer!
I'll go bug them now. :)
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Oh - is there a way to revert back to 5.3?
Or will it always update to this wonky API?
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GivingYouFLAC wrote:

This seems more like a Spotify change, as Sonos mentioned they're using a 'new architecture' with Spotify, which probably means new APIs. Spotify might not have an API available for displaying folders, but who knows.



I've contacted Spotify and here's what they said:

Thanks for getting in touch with us. We’re sorry to hear you’re having problems with your Sonos. Let's get you the help you need.

Since Sonos developed their own Spotify app, their customer support will need to help you out. We're sorry we couldn’t do more!

Get in touch with them here.

We're always here if you have any questions with the Spotify service itself though. Just let us know.



Bottom line: Sonos says its Spotify, Spotify says its Sonos. I've really glad that no one has any effing idea how to solve this stupid "solution" to an already great app.
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why-hello-there wrote:

GivingYouFLAC wrote:

This seems more like a Spotify change, as Sonos mentioned they're using a 'new architecture' with Spotify, which probably means new APIs. Spotify might not have an API available for displaying folders, but who knows.



I've contacted Spotify and here's what they said:

Thanks for getting in touch with us. We’re sorry to hear you’re having problems with your Sonos. Let's get you the help you need.

Since Sonos developed their own Spotify app, their customer support will need to help you out. We're sorry we couldn’t do more!

Get in touch with them here.

We're always here if you have any questions with the Spotify service itself though. Just let us know.



Bottom line: Sonos says its Spotify, Spotify says its Sonos. I've really glad that no one has any effing idea how to solve this stupid "solution" to an already great app.



Playlist folders are not supported in the current Spotify architecture that Sonos now uses. You can read about it here (under 'Folders'): https://developer.spotify.com/web-api/working-with-playlists/
While you won't see the folders, your playlists are still intact and you'll find them all under the Playlists menu option.
Userlevel 1
Mohammed H wrote:

why-hello-there wrote:

GivingYouFLAC wrote:

This seems more like a Spotify change, as Sonos mentioned they're using a 'new architecture' with Spotify, which probably means new APIs. Spotify might not have an API available for displaying folders, but who knows.



I've contacted Spotify and here's what they said:

Thanks for getting in touch with us. We’re sorry to hear you’re having problems with your Sonos. Let's get you the help you need.

Since Sonos developed their own Spotify app, their customer support will need to help you out. We're sorry we couldn’t do more!

Get in touch with them here.

We're always here if you have any questions with the Spotify service itself though. Just let us know.



Bottom line: Sonos says its Spotify, Spotify says its Sonos. I've really glad that no one has any effing idea how to solve this stupid "solution" to an already great app.



Playlist folders are not supported in the current Spotify architecture that Sonos now uses. You can read about it here (under 'Folders'): https://developer.spotify.com/web-api/working-with-playlists/
While you won't see the folders, your playlists are still intact and you'll find them all under the Playlists menu option.



We know that this is the "official" feedback from Sonos. We have now heard it many times in several discussions before.

But from a customer's point of view the situation now is that
- I have invested serveral € 1000 in a user-friendly system
- where over night no-one in the family will find their music anymore that once was perfectly organised

...and the explanation or excuse from Sonos is some technical detail at Spotify where we are asked to show some understanding. Actually, we don't.

I expect Sonos to sort it out with Spotify and simply make it work again.

All I ask for is to hear from Sonos that they have acknowledged this as a serious problem for at least a large part of the community and that they will do everything to solve this together with Spotify in one of the next software releases. The greatest fear of many people here is that it might stay like this for good.
Sonos have acknowledged it's a problem and are working on it but it isn't going to be fixed overnight. This IS a spotify issue and Sonos are completely dependant on them working with Sonos to fix it. If spotify decide it's not a priority there isn't going to be much Sonos can do about it on their own.
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The LHC wrote:

Sonos have acknowledged it's a problem and are working on it but it isn't going to be fixed overnight. This IS a spotify issue and Sonos are completely dependant on them working with Sonos to fix it. If spotify decide it's not a priority there isn't going to be much Sonos can do about it on their own.



What's weird is that Spotify's web, desktop and iOS players support folders. Maybe these use an old API? Their current says it doesn't support folders:
https://developer.spotify.com/web-api/working-with-playlists/#folders

But so far only the Sonos Controller doesn't support folders. Here are the facts:

Sonos has acknowledged it has created its own version of the Spotify player
Sonos has acknowledged It does use Spotify's web API, which doesn't support folders
Sonos has acknowledged they removed the folders, thought "not deliberately"

#confused
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I guess I feel pretty strongly about something as simple as folders, so I created this:
http://bringbackfolders.com/

Send it around if you agree.
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Yes, yes, yes. Spotify and Sonos worked beautifully together before Sonos' recent "upgrade". It's now pretty pointless for me to use Sonos equipment to listen to my Spotify music. If it doesn't change and change soon, I'll have to figure out what to do with my $1000+ worth of Sonos equipment, currently pretty much useless to me.
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It just occurred to me: I wonder if it's possible to DOWNgrade to the previous version of Sonos' OS?
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JMinSF wrote:

It just occurred to me: I wonder if it's possible to DOWNgrade to the previous version of Sonos' OS?



It isn't. This was my first thought, but official Sonos policy is to remove old versions of their app(s) so you can "remain the most up to date." I can see why, but in this instance it's seems like the easy way to get back to the old API.
I wonder it there is any progress in this issue. Sonos?

What worries me is that apparently Sonos has no position as a partner of Spotify. Which I think is bad news for all of us Sonos Spotify users. If this can happen overnight, what else awaits us in the near future. Anyway, I have postponed my investment in some more speakers for now. Let's see if Sonos can solve this with Spotify....
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Marcellus wrote:

I wonder it there is any progress in this issue. Sonos?

What worries me is that apparently Sonos has no position as a partner of Spotify. Which I think is bad news for all of us Sonos Spotify users. If this can happen overnight, what else awaits us in the near future. Anyway, I have postponed my investment in some more speakers for now. Let's see if Sonos can solve this with Spotify....



Sonos' position seems to be "it's not our fault", in which case I don't really anticipate any progress being made on their end. And I don't imagine that Spotify will be doing much about this anytime soon: Sonos customers probably represent a tiny slice of their customer base.

This is the big revelation for me: Sonos' proprietary app requires that the streaming music companies continue to cooperate, and it's pretty clear now that -- since the biggest of the streaming music companies has apparently made changes that are so consequential for Sonos customers -- we can't rely on the Sonos proprietary app to work with other streaming music services as we'd like it to as time goes on.

Sonos does however seem to have partnered with Deezer, so looking towards the future, I imagine that Deezer will be the best bet for Sonos customers.
Or another solution will be the best bet for Spotify customers... Haven't made my decision, yet.

Agree with your analysis though. Maybe one day there will be no more proprietary apps so we'll have to connect Sonos to the apps of streaming music companies...
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JMinSF wrote:

Sonos does however seem to have partnered with Deezer, so looking towards the future, I imagine that Deezer will be the best bet for Sonos customers.



I wouldn't have thought so. Almost none of these streaming services are long-term financially viable, so almost all will disappear (merge, be acquired, fail) in time, and perhaps sooner rather than later in many cases.

The only ones I'd be confident will survive are those that are part of wider monetizable ecosystems operated by those with the very deepest pockets: essentially, Apple and Google. Every single one of the rest is vulnerable. IMO.
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RDog wrote:

JMinSF wrote:

Sonos does however seem to have partnered with Deezer, so looking towards the future, I imagine that Deezer will be the best bet for Sonos customers.



The only ones I'd be confident will survive would be those that are part of wider monetizable ecosystems operated by those with the very deepest pockets: essentially, Apple and Google. Every single one of the rest is vulnerable.



Good point, I hadn't thought of that. It looks like the French service Qobuz might be the first to go.

Apple of course has Airplay, so in the long run it's doubtful that they'll continue to support a competing music streaming technology (Apple has a history of supporting competitors for awhile and then cutting them out).

I regret having bought into the Sonos system at this point. Unless something changes -- if your predictions are correct -- I don't imagine Sonos will be around for very long.
JMinSF wrote:

Good point, I hadn't thought of that. It looks like the French service Qobuz might be the first to go.

Apple of course has Airplay, so in the long run it's doubtful that they'll continue to support a competing music streaming technology (Apple has a history of supporting competitors for awhile and then cutting them out).

I regret having bought into the Sonos system at this point. Unless something changes -- if your predictions are correct -- I don't imagine Sonos will be around for very long.



Why? Apple has gone out of its way to support Apple Music on Sonos, before any other third party hardware, something which they have never done before. And the Google Play Music Sonos implementation is the broadest and most comprehensive of all the services. So both companies, who showed an unwillingness to work with Sonos in the past, have come 180 degrees to become willing Sonos partners. Nothing about this recent history points to them suddenly abandoning something which they have so recently changed their mind on, quite the opposite in fact
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JMinSF, worth bearing in mind that currently Sonos appears to have probably the best mainstream wireless music solution and significant brand value. Of course, things can and do change, but in the medium term at least I'd have thought Sonos is not at any risk of disappearing. Someone acquiring it for its brand might be the biggest 'risk' and even then, you wouldn't expect an acquisitor to trash what they'd just had to pay extremely richly for (and remember, Sonos is privately held so no hostile takeover from unwanted suitor). In the long term, who knows, and we're all dead anyway.

Also, Airplay is weak architecturally. It's no surprise that Google subsequently took a different (better) approach with their Cast protocol.
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I hope you guys are right. I've never been especially good at predicting the future.

I feel so disappointed in this development -- I've invested a lot in Sonos equipment (I use this in my office), invested a lot of time compiling a music collection on Spotify (using folders -- it's really the only option if you want to amass a collection of classical music), and now I find that the two work very poorly together and I'm disappointed. My disappointment makes me think the whole thing will fall apart eventually. Maybe it won't.

In any case, I'm about to start a 30-day trial of Google Music All Access. If it works better than Spotify, I'll make the switch.

P.S. Airplay works pretty well for me, even with four Airport Express boxes scattered around my residence.
I'm with RDog. There hasn't been a music service yet that has made dime one of profit, most have lost millions and have relied solely on investment capital (similar to the Dot Com busts of the 90s). Even Spotify has lost millions. Google and Apple seem to be where it's at, in that they have the capital to support a music service to drive brand loyalty, so it is a loss worth taking. Sonos seems to think the same way, for they have forgone their old "we will code our app to your service" model in favor of an API that any service can use, and thus their time and effort losses are minimized if a service goes belly up. Spotify seems to be the last holdout on that model, in that Sonos still has to access Spotify's API, which is why we see the limitations in this thread.
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JMinSF wrote:

In any case, I'm about to start a 30-day trial of Google Music All Access. If it works better than Spotify, I'll make the switch.



Hopefully that'll work out for you. Without wishing to sound like a Google sales rep, my own experience of Google Play Music (GPM) with Sonos has been very good. I've been using the GPM Android app, 'casting' to Sonos, since July '14. There were some niggles a year ago, and one of these returned just recently, but overall my experience has been excellent. >99% of the time it just works, as you'd rightly expect it to.

Plus, with GPM you have the choice of using either the Sonos app itself or casting to Sonos players from the native GPM app (if you're an Android user). I do the latter, and am very happy with it, particularly the scope it provides for discovering new music via the app's rich UI. I've never listened to so much music, nor discovered so much great new content, as I have since subscribing to GPM and casting to Sonos from the Android app.

Here endeth the sales pitch!
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@sonos - any updates? there's been a few versions of your app since this issue came to light.

and, before you say you don't make the API - you did decide to create your version of the app.

any tangible answer beyond "we'll look into and let you know" ?
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why-hello-there wrote:

@sonos - any updates? there's been a few versions of your app since this issue came to light.

and, before you say you don't make the API - you did decide to create your version of the app.

any tangible answer beyond "we'll look into and let you know" ?



There isn't an update right now, there was recently an addition made to the Spotify Web API which added Albums to Your Music which we updated Spotify on Sonos with. Nothing new to share on playlist folders but we will let you know if there is anything that comes up.
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Why is this thread so old.. the problem has not been resolved?

A message to Sonos...

We all now know and accept the Spotify API is the culprit.

But please show use what you have done in more than a year in trying to work with Spotify to resolve this issue. You are a big player in the streaming music game and I cannot see any reason why you can't send one of your programmers on a plane to go and assist Spotify (in case they are incapable of adding this important feature.. UNBELIEVABLE). By the way, I'm a programmer myself.

Am there only a few users using Folders to organize their songs? Are everybody else so primitive or unorganized? I do not believe so. I only think they haven't got the time to fight this battle.

I spent a lot of money on Sonos gear recently and I came accosts this shocking situation limitation one minute after installation. I'm especially missing the feature where one can play all songs randomly underneath a parent folder. The salesperson definitely did not mention this (as it would have been a deal breaker).

It might be that Spotify does not realize the importance of Folders themselves. Sonos, please make them aware of it. It's your duty.

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