How to play high resolution multichannel/High res FLAC files on Sonos?

  • 5 February 2021
  • 13 replies
  • 4165 views
H

**Please no comments about what the human ear can or can not hear --  plenty of existing threads for that debate.**

I went down the rabbit hole of re-ripping my SACD/CD/Vinyl into higher quality files now that S2 supports 24bit - 48Hz.  I’ve found that these files play pretty well direclty in the S2 app even though some exceed the “1536 bit rate” mentioned here.    If there is a way to play even higher resolution files, I’d like to do so?

I also wondered if my 5.2 Home Theater Sonos setup with Arc, 2 Fives, and 2 Subs might play Multi-channel FLAC files.  I’m curious if others have tried this expirement and if so, what have you found? 


My Setup  AppleTV4k → Arcana (highly recommend) → Samsung TV and Sonos Arc
Surround Music Library running on the latest Plex Media Server

Here is what I have found:

  1. AppleTV using free VLC App with Plex Media: Plays up to 7.1 24bit/192Hz Flac files and displays as “Multichannel PCM 7.1” in System → About My System.  However, the UX sucks.  The rear channel is muted because the system thinks I’m playing video + no gapless playback.    
  2. Apple TV using Plex App: Will only play in “PCM Stereo 2.0” Known issue that Plex users have been complaining about and that has been fixed on other platforms: Android etc.
  3. Using Plex Apps on Windows/iOS with “airplay”: I can get the files to play in any room but I can’t tell if I am getting discrete channels or just stereo in virtual surround.  Support could not tell me.  No details in System → About My System.  I read somewhere that Airplay downmixes to 16 bit -- 44 HZ? 
  4. I also tried Infuse Lite and Pro ($$) and MrMC in Apple TV with no luck -- apparently if you rip to MKV it will work given that it views these as video files with Multchannel music.

With all that said does anyone have any tips or other solutions to try?  I prefer not to go down the Roon path but may consider that if it is the only way…

Any insight is appreciated. Some questions:

  • Does Plex Media Server downmmix/transcode streams when playing over Airplay?
  • Is there another player for AppleTV4K that plays Audio Flac Files in surround?
  • Is Roon the way?  Or something else?

Thanks in advance.

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13 replies

Corry P
Userlevel 7
Badge +18

Hi @hmanaz, and welcome to the Sonos Community!

That’s not a setup that I have a lot of experience with, however I'll give this thread a bump in the hopes that some other members of our community can provide some assistance :slightly_smiling_face:

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
ratty

Sonos doesn’t play at sampling rates over 48kHz.

The max bitrate for 24/48 is 2304 kbps.

Airplay is ALAC 16/44.

 

As for the ATV to Arcana, the Arc will obviously see it as a TV input and act accordingly. The channel balance ought to be preserved though. You could try setting the Arcana scaler to your TV specifications, as this should force the ATV into delivering the best possible audio.

Gapless playback is of course an app issue.

H

Thanks @Corry P for amplifying.

 

 @ratty and Cory.
I did some more work on this over the weekend.

Ratty - you mentioned that “Sonos doesn’t play sampling above 48Hz”? Good thing I re-ripped all my music to 24/48 which as you said is 2304 but Sonos lists 1534 as the max bitrate supported, yet seems to play these files no problem.  I’ve got almost everything hardwired including my NAS.  Sounds pretty good and I’ve only experienced issues when trying to play higher res (96Hz or 192hz) files on wireless speakers.  

Question though: How does Sonos play Atmos and Dolby Digital files from Disney/Netflix/Amazon?  My Arcana reports bitstream 192Hz AC3 and sometimes 24/48Hz for PCM.  All seem to play just fine. (Which is what sent me down this rabbit hole... — If I can listen to music tracks on surround movies and they sound better than my other 16/44 tracks why not try to get surround music in high definition?)

The good bit of news I have is that based on a suggestion on the Plex board I tired a Kodi port app: MRMC on the Apple TV.  It does play my 7.1 24/48/96 bit 192Hz files just fine and gapless.  I would prefer Plex if that worked (nicer UI/UX) but for now this seems like the best option for listening to multichannel and/or higher definition files in your Sonos home theater.  Would be nice to “know” if this does get down-mixed to 48Hz if that is some “maximum” supported by Sonos speakers?  I’ve seen that before but wondered how Sonos can handle Atmos and DD content and not the same bitrate for audio...

Apps to avoid if you want to listen to to FLAC audio files from AppleTV4K:

  • Infuse and Infuse Pro - Will only play video files
  • ZFuse- Seemed to work but buggy as hell basically useless
  • VLC - Works but not gapless and very cumbersome for audio.

Thanks in advance!

ratty

Well, 24/48 is all you can hear, but you asked us not to mention that inconvenient truth again. :wink:

Arc plays Atmos and DD/DD+ from the likes of Netflix. The Atmos from such sources is delivered over DD+.

I don’t have an ATV so can’t comment in detail. It supports LPCM 7.1 -- at 24/48 evidently -- but it would presumably depend on the app.

H

Hi @hmanaz, and welcome to the Sonos Community!

That’s not a setup that I have a lot of experience with, however I'll give this thread a bump in the hopes that some other members of our community can provide some assistance :slightly_smiling_face:

Thanks Corry!  As an FYI — I was very active on these forums in the beginning (been a customer since 2002) - still have some CR100s lying around.  Thanks to this pandemic I have re-discovered my old CDs and I can know listen to music in lossless glory.

ratty

been a customer since 2002

You must have experienced something of a time warp then. Sonos was only founded in Aug 2002, with the first product (ZP100, plus CR100) released in Jan 2005.

H

Well, 24/48 is all you can hear, but you asked us not to mention that inconvenient truth again. :wink:

Arc plays Atmos and DD/DD+ from the likes of Netflix. The Atmos from such sources is delivered over DD+.

I don’t have an ATV so can’t comment in detail. It supports LPCM 7.1 -- at 24/48 evidently -- but it would presumably depend on the app.

Thanks @ratty 

Agreed supposedly we can’t hear the difference above 48Hz - However, I can tell the difference between a good Atmos mix and the same movie in DD.  I can also hear the difference between a really good multichannel/quad mix and stereo...  If Sonos can send discrete 5.1 information at 3mbps (or as high as 6.144mpbs) and 48Hz sampling to each speaker I’m happy.

Also I am playing 192Hz files on MRMC - If Sonos is compressing these they still sounds pretty awesome.

I’d love to hear from Sonos if these files are 192Hz playing as is or if information is being discarded due to some maximum sampling at the speaker? (Just curious - not superhuman)

 

ratty

Yes, clearly multichannel will sound different. And Atmos should sound better than DD.

The app on your ATV must be downsampling the 192kHz files. You should surely be able to check somewhere. 

There really is zero point in Sonos supporting sample rates over 48kHz without some way of reproducing the ultrasonics encoded thereby. None of Sonos’ speakers contain supertweeters. The only faintly plausible excuse for supporting 88kHz and up -- if it really floats one’s boat -- would be in the Port, so the music could be sent digitally to suitable outboard DAC, amp and transducers.

I’m taking it as read that you’re familiar with the Nyquist-Shannon sampling theorem. 

H

been a customer since 2002

You must have experienced something of a time warp then. Sonos was only founded in Aug 2002, with the first product (ZP100, plus CR100) released in Jan 2005.

Like I said I was a customer since the beginning… no time warp but I do stand corrected my CR100s were built in 2004 not 2002.  So Ratty - When you get older your memory is not quite what it used to be looks like I was off by ~2 years…  I see you’ve been active on here since 2008 so you can’t be a spring chicken.   Thanks for being an active contributor to the community and for responding to my OP. 

Yes Nyquist-Shannon - tried to avoid this rabbit hole… Yet I wonder why Dolby Atmos encodes using up to 192Hz sampling? What you are saying is that anything above 48Hz is discarded by Sonos speakers or irrelevant bc our ears can’t hear it or both or it doesn’t matter? 

I rather not discuss/argue about Nyquist-Shannon, but I am curious about how Sonos Arc/Play 5s, etc handle Dolby Atmos streams sampled at 192Hz…  

The reason I re-ripped all my stereo tracks to 24/48 was mainly Nyquist/Shannon plus the versatility of using Sonos as is.  They all sound great, some even sound better than some of the Atmos tracks available on Tidal, a few sound pretty awesome but the AppleTV app is buggy when playing these.

The reason to play multi-channel FLAC files encoded in 48Hz or higher is that they sound even better to me.  Maybe the multiple discrete channels, maybe I’m fooling myself.  

Just trying to make an educated decision on what to do with other multi-channel music.  All opinions welcome.


 

H

Yes, clearly multichannel will sound different. And Atmos should sound better than DD.

The app on your ATV must be downsampling the 192kHz files. You should surely be able to check somewhere. 

There really is zero point in Sonos supporting sample rates over 48kHz without some way of reproducing the ultrasonics encoded thereby. None of Sonos’ speakers contain supertweeters. The only faintly plausible excuse for supporting 88kHz and up -- if it really floats one’s boat -- would be in the Port, so the music could be sent digitally to suitable outboard DAC, amp and transducers.

I’m taking it as read that you’re familiar with the Nyquist-Shannon sampling theorem. 

Also Wyred4Sound will improve the DAC on your port for a cool $550 -- not sure it’s worth it but interesting. https://wyred4sound.com/products/digital-converters/music-servers/upgrades-accessories/sonos-port-modified

ratty

I see you’ve been active on here since 2008 so you can’t be a spring chicken.   

Not exactly, no. I started with a BU150 bundle (ZP100, ZP80, CR100).

 

Yes Nyquist-Shannon - tried to avoid this rabbit hole… Yet I wonder why Dolby Atmos encodes using up to 192Hz sampling? What you are saying is that anything above 48Hz is discarded by Sonos speakers or irrelevant bc our ears can’t hear it or both or it doesn’t matter? 

I rather not discuss/argue about Nyquist-Shannon, but I am curious about how Sonos Arc/Play 5s, etc handle Dolby Atmos streams sampled at 192Hz…  

There’s capability and there’s actual usage. DD+ can handle 192kHz, which I’d guess is related to Arcana’s display: "bitstream 192kHz”. That said, it would make no sense for a movie, say, to encode ultrasonic frequencies that only animals can hear.

 

The reason I re-ripped all my stereo tracks to 24/48 was mainly Nyquist/Shannon plus the versatility of using Sonos as is.  They all sound great, some even sound better than some of the Atmos tracks available on Tidal, a few sound pretty awesome but the AppleTV app is buggy when playing these.

I dare say that lossless PCM rips to 24/48 (or the FLAC/ALAC compressed equivalents) would sound better than the Tidal Atmos content. The latter could well be lossy and quite heavily processed.

Also, the so-called ‘Masters’ from Tidal are generally regarded as having an effective bit depth of 13 bits when played on regular equipment.

 

The reason to play multi-channel FLAC files encoded in 48Hz or higher is that they sound even better to me.  Maybe the multiple discrete channels, maybe I’m fooling myself.  

Multi-channel would be a different experience certainly. There are many who prefer a conventional stereo soundstage, set out across the traditional 60 degrees in front of the sweet-spot. Each to their own. 

D

For streaming ive been experimenting with Tidal as they now hold a fair library of Atmos Content, you do need a Hifi account though.

Casting Tidal from Mac/Apple phone does play the Atmos content, but on the Sonos App @Dolby Atmos@  does not show up.

However, running Tidal on AppleTV and on my Sony Atmos android TV does work, as soon as you install the app tidal recognises the Atmos ARC device via the HDMI 2.1 signal. you are of course playing tidal though your TV which isn't ideal, but you do get some fantastic quality and subversive audio.. especially Kraftwerk…

On the SONOS app i go to my Zone and the @Dolby Atmos@ icon appears…

Cant find any info though on what Hz rates HDMI2.1 with E-arc can pass audio though...I believe its 192Hz

You can get a trial on Tidal which defaults to Premium but you can can switch to Hi-fi..

 

 

H

Dodd - that’s my point. If you/we can play Dolby Atmos from Tidal (or Dolby Atmos from Prime) we should be able to play awesome multichannel high definition audio.   

 

Short answer:  You can

Long answer: it involves going down the road beyond Sonos towards High Def players/streamers.\

Sad that Sonos won’t lead us down this path it would be MUCH easier.

 

 

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