Question

future of the 65k limit



Show first post
This topic has been closed for further comments. You can use the search bar to find a similar topic, or create a new one by clicking Create Topic at the top of the page.

155 replies

Userlevel 7
Badge +22
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but the M3U work around works in that Sonos will index 65k files (and M3U file can point to many songs).

So lets say you have a large classical music collection that you don't listen to heavily but want to play on Sonos when needed.

Put the classical music in a folder NOT indexed by Sonos - such as Sonos points to \\server\music and you keep your classical music on \\server\classic

So lets say I then make a playlist with all my classical music (lets say there are 2000 songs and maybe I make 4 playslists with 500 songs in each playlist).

I can put that playlist under \\server\music

Sonos will index that playlist and it will show in playlists (using only the memory space of 4 songs as its 4 playlists indexed). It will play the songs since the playlist points to the other folder that isn't indexed by Sonos.

So if you had 66,000 tracks in this case by using this method you would be down to 64,004

I believe that is how it works .... I haven't run into the 65k limit (doubt ever would) so I have not personally tried.

I could see doing this with Billboard Charts files I have. Like if I have Top 100 songs for each year from 1950-2015 .... that is 6500 songs.

I could make playlists for each year (65 years). So I would have a 1975 playlist for example with all the 1975 songs.

So in this case I have removed 6500 songs and replaced with 65 playlists.
Userlevel 3
Badge +1
(If not yet posted in this thread ) Simply use http://www.subsonic.org/pages/sonos.jsp on some local NAS, RasPi or home server. Works like a charm with Sonos and the 65k Limit is gone.
Badge
I doubt that I'll hit the 65K limit anytime soon, but I am also shocked that I came to know of this only now, AFTER buying 3 units.

Still love the system though.
Well I guess this explains why only some of my music library is visible. I have a lot more than the 65K limit and to find out about this limitation now is very disappointing. Fortunately we have only purchased the sound bar so far, sub and extra speakers were coming around Xmas, so we are not too deep into this system. Unless an update comes by then I will be moving on to something else.
Userlevel 2
Also extremely frustrating is that high quality (e.g. FLAC) tracks apparently use up a lot more slots than standard MP3s, meaning you'll reach the "65k" limit well before having 65k tracks.
That's incorrect, the limit is in the indexing, not in the size of the files, it's the tags that take up the space, so the more detailed the tags, the more index space is used, it's got nothing to do with whether they're mp3 or flac files.
Also extremely frustrating is that high quality (e.g. FLAC) tracks apparently use up a lot more slots than standard MP3s, meaning you'll reach the "65k" limit well before having 65k tracks.

File size/type has nothing to do with it. Each metadata field has a specific character limit. If you exceed that limit, the file will use another index slot to accommodate the overflow. The metadata limits are listed here:

https://sonos.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1552/kw/tag%20limits/session/L3RpbWUvMTQ0NTAyNjk1OC9zaWQveW1FQXQ2em0%3D
To all users experiencing the track limitation issue:
Can I suggest that you post to Sonos on their facebook site whenever they post about a new feature or product
I feel that is the only way we 'MAY' see some sort of resolution

We need to let the public know more about this issue and keep the public pressure on Sonos to fix this damn problem
Please, each and every one of your voices is important
We need to get this issue resolved
Slightly over dramatic, the majority of the public won't care, most of them don't have anything like that many tracks and as something like over 80% of Sonos users already only use online services this issue will become less and less relevant as time goes by.
Userlevel 3
Badge +1
...and not really a reason for crossposting the same post on every more or less suitable thread. You are not really making the best impression with your 6 posts.
I always wondered where all the whiny schmucks who post the off-topic nonsense to every Sonos Facebook post came from.
So why not upping the limit for those networks that don't have legacy devices that are limited to 65k?
So why not upping the limit for those networks that don't have legacy devices that are limited to 65k?

The "legacy devices" include members of the current range, under your scheme, what happens when someone who only has a new play:5 and can index 100,000 files decides to add a Connect to their old hi-fi that only has enough memory for 65,000 tracks?
So why not upping the limit for those networks that don't have legacy devices that are limited to 65k?
Apart from The LHC's technical point, there's no business requirement. Why should Sonos even bother. The fraction of Sonos customers -- current or potential -- with legally acquired libraries of that size is tiny. What's more it's diminishing as a proportion since more and more people are migrating to online services.

For the committed there's always the option of using an external server like Subsonic.
Userlevel 7
Badge +21
So why not upping the limit for those networks that don't have legacy devices that are limited to 65k?
Apart from The LHC's technical point, there's no business requirement. Why should Sonos even bother. The fraction of Sonos customers -- current or potential -- with legally acquired libraries of that size is tiny. What's more it's diminishing as a proportion since more and more people are migrating to online services.

For the committed there's always the option of using an external server like Subsonic.


Ratty, I agree. I wouldn't consider myself an audio-phile but over the last 20 years (I had my then CD collection of around 100 CDs stolen then) I have amassed 443 albums (5,666 tracks). I only have 1 album that isn't a ripped physical CD (The Rah band - Mystery. You can easily find out why the CD is hard to get and very expensive). The last 15 years or so I don't buy anywhere as much music as I used to (I am now 50 years old) as I tend to listen to more Radio - both music and speech.

To have 65,000 tracks would be around 5,000 albums which would be costing £60,000 (Let's say $100,000 in the US). I simply don't believe many people have that much legally acquired music nor the time to listen to it all.

I'm also getting into streaming - I have Amazon Prime and they have recently started their Amazon Prime Music - when this works in the UK through Sonos that will open up a whole new world. And of course the current Apple Music trial is interesting.
Userlevel 2
Badge
So why not upping the limit for those networks that don't have legacy devices that are limited to 65k?
Apart from The LHC's technical point, there's no business requirement. Why should Sonos even bother. The fraction of Sonos customers -- current or potential -- with legally acquired libraries of that size is tiny. What's more it's diminishing as a proportion since more and more people are migrating to online services.
For the committed there's always the option of using an external server like Subsonic.


Hi Ratty,
It is not a good way of thinking. First of all, the customers (for which i am) who ask and/or need to get rid of the 65 k limitations are not so tiny in my opinion. For myself, i count already 30% from the people i know and are using Sonos that are bothered about this limitation.It is not, however, the only one: 24bits compatibility is another one.
Second point, People who needs to go beyond the 65K limits are often among the first and the most loyal customers, and we can be seen as the brand ambassadors. This is one of the Sonos most valuable asset and spitting at them with this kind of answers about the "no business requirement" is not a good idea at all.

For myself, after being a mobilizer for ten and more installations for many friends and acquaintances, after asking many times to the Sonos Guys about this limitation, i quit Sonos, resell my 9 or 10 devices and move to another system (Sonos was great few years ago but there are alternatives now) who is as innovative as Sonos and listen more carefully and respectfully to their customers.
Of course you did. 😃
i quit Sonos, resell my 9 or 10 devices and move to another system
Would you care to tell us what great system you bought instead?
Userlevel 2
Badge
i quit Sonos, resell my 9 or 10 devices and move to another system
Would you care to tell us what great system you bought instead?


Well Ratty, this is not exactly what matters. I'm not telling you that i found a better system but that the functionalities i need are still lacking in Sonos. There are lots of alternative systems now and more will come in 2016. I am testing right now a Mass Fidelity Core but everyone can find a lot of solutions out there : Naim Audio, Olive, Cabasse, Harman Kardon, BO, even Samsung, LG or Sony have multi room solutions. I’m not telling that these solutions are better, more ergonomic or cheapier than the Sonos one. I still find that Sonos is good suited to most of the audio needs but not anymore for all mine, as i take note my main wishes are not regarded as having high priority.

Anyway, i'm not worry for you, i’m not really in the target market of Sonos anymore. I listen now to my music mainly with headsets (LCD-3 plugged in Balancing Act, Hugo Dac, MacMini with Audirvana+ for transport and Synology DLNA server for the tracks).
My multiroom set is very poor for now and use DLNA with old Elipson equipment and audioengine receivers. I admit this is not as simple and integrated as Sonos, but it works, thru a Audirvana iPad app.
Badge
I now read the whole thread and I find this totally frustrating. I reached my limit with 43,000 songs. The issue has been already around for many years. Nothing has been done. I have my SONOS now for 2 years, and I excluded a large part of my music library because of that stupid memory limitation (and yes, all my music is bought and paid for).

As there is no official announcement to rectify this issue, I guess I have to part with my SONOS. Shame about all that money I've spent.
I reached my limit with 43,000 songs.
Then you could almost certainly free up memory by simply renaming your files to 1.FLAC, 2.MP3, 3.MP4 etc. A single batch task using a decent tag editor could do this, including backing up the current filename to a private tag.
Badge
I reached my limit with 43,000 songs.
Then you could almost certainly free up memory by simply renaming your files to 1.FLAC, 2.MP3, 3.MP4 etc. A single batch task using a decent tag editor could do this, including backing up the current filename to a private tag.

Sure, I could. I could also remove a couple of other - not so important tags - from my library. I also have another 15,000 Songs currently not in my SONOS system and I would reach the limitation again. At least, I would reach it at 64,000.

No, it seems like I need another system. Does anyone want to buy my used SONOS? 🙂
I could also remove a couple of other - not so important tags - from my library.
There's be no point if Sonos doesn't index those tags. They'd be ignored anyway.

Does anyone want to buy my used SONOS?

Trading isn't permitted here. eBay it. They command an excellent price. For the vast majority of people these kinds of library limitations don't matter, especially as more and more music is streamed from the cloud.
I have purchased yesterday a Sonos Connect AMP in Paris and I really regret not not have read this page before. I have seen nowhere in French reviews of Sonos Connect AMP any information on this 65K limitation. I have 3,3 Tera of FLAC files on my NAS and the Connect AMP accept to index only 1 Tera ! This is devastating. A true shame for this product !
A true shame for this product !

Not really. Sonos' research showed that something over 90% of listening through their systems is done from online streaming services. Of those who still use local NAS, I'd guess that less than 0.1% have more than 65K tracks. Why in the world would Sonos cater to such a tiny fringe audience?