Question

future of the 65k limit



Show first post
This topic has been closed for further comments. You can use the search bar to find a similar topic, or create a new one by clicking Create Topic at the top of the page.

155 replies

May I ask if you all purchased your 65 thousand plus songs.
I have but more than half my music are live recordings which I was present at the concert over the years. Can't speak for others. So your implication has been rejected.
Userlevel 6
Badge +15
May I ask if you all purchased your 65 thousand plus songs.
""So your implication has been rejected."" Really?! One reply 9 hrs later to an honest question. Oh the silence.
And the Sonos Silence is deafening . . .  
Huh what?
May I ask if you all purchased your 65 thousand plus songs.
We'll said, all anyone should expect from a company of this size is openness and honesty.  I am surprised that none of the reviewers in the HiFi magazines have not picked up on this topic yet.  As has been said previously if they are really proud of having this limitation then they should be up front about it and let the consumer make their own minds up which product to buy for their needs and not trap them into something that is not what they were expecting.  I wonder if as a consumer you have the right to return the goods since this limitation has not been made clear.  This could be something that we as consumers could investigate and maybe Sonos should take a look at.  In the meantime we should just make sure that we keep telling our friends and as many people as we can about this limitation so that no other consumer falls in to this trap and hopefully Sonos may see the light and raise or delete the limitation.
May I ask if you all purchased your 65 thousand plus songs.
You have the right to return goods anywhere if they are not suited to purpose, for any reason.  Laws vary as to the return period (in the states it is guaranteed 30 days, Sonos generously gives you 45).  Now if you have exceeded that period, then I have to ask what took you so long to voice your displeasure at something which is so egregiously wrong?
May I ask if you all purchased your 65 thousand plus songs.
Hi, I'm still within the 30 days and already speaking with the Hifi supplier to see if they can offer any alternative/fixes and if not returning but there is more to this as JR has stated and that is the openness and honesty that we should expect from our suppliers whether Sonos or someone else,  I am not disappointed with the product in the sense that it does everything that I wanted it to but the 65k limit has turned out to be very frustrating and something which I was not told about prior to buying the system.  If it was I would have then been able to make a decision whether to proceed with Sonos or find an alternative method/product (which is what I am doing now).  The whole point of listing this dissatisfaction on this site as many of us have is to try and inform people before they buy the Sonos that this limit exists.  Now that I have done this I shall sign off for the last time.  I hope future buyers will find everyones comments helpful. 
May I ask if you all purchased your 65 thousand plus songs.
So you got a product, was unsatisfied with the performance, and are now allowed to return it for an alternative.  Aside from a few trips to the store, how exactly were you wronged?  Not every company highlights the limitations of their products.  Does Apple say in big, bold letters that their devices cannot play FLAC files?  Is it a legitimate critique to say they should?
May I ask if you all purchased your 65 thousand plus songs.
It does play music.  As does an iPod.  Sonos can't play over 65,000 tracks, and an iPod can't play FLAC tracks, no matter how many you have.  Both companies do not advertise these flaws.
Userlevel 3
If Sonos doesn't break the 65k limit (what a pity!), others do: http://www.subsonic.org/pages/sonos.jsp

With a small RasPi (with active USB hub and USB HD) or a cheap Intel NUC or a home server, Subsonic could be the solution for some and add the possibility to play the own collection via web browsers and apps.

Some better NAS might even support it via their web server (untested).

To be able to use that function, it is however necessary to buy Subsonic Premium: http://www.subsonic.org/pages/premium.jsp . With 1$/month, that price is very low however.

I the light of today's developments I would like to add that Google Music has upgraded its free layer from 20.000 own uploaded songs to 50.000. That could be enough for many to have their full collection online without paying a penny.
May I ask if you all purchased your 65 thousand plus songs.
While apple doesn't say that they don't support FLAC they do call out which formats they do support.  Very clearly I might add.  So they are upfront about it, unlike Sonos.
Userlevel 1
Badge +1
May I ask if you all purchased your 65 thousand plus songs.
@Dave: Your question is irrelevant and misstates the problem. The "limit" of 65,000 songs could actually be much less depending on the amount of metadata stored. Some posters have reached the "limit" with about half the number of songs. How those posters obtained their music is not my business nor yours.

The more apt point is that it is unlikely that most users have that amount of music in their collection which is why Sonos is not devoting resources to the problem. Likewise, for those with that amount of music, dedicating a laptop to be the music server is probably not a big expense relative to the overall cost of system.

With that said, I don't care to devote a laptop to the endeavor and as many (?most) of us store our music on a NAS, I would merely ask for better support for those devices. A Synology app would really be great for example. While I am happy overall with my Sonos system, I have withheld future investments in additional components until I see how they address this problem and/or whether other competing systems become available.
Alexander. THANK YOU. I just checked out - and purchased - Subsonic. Not only does it get around the 65000-song limit, it looks like it might even replace my Plex app for remote access to my library, as well as casting movies to my Chromecasts. (I'll test all that stuff tomorrow.) In the 6 months since I found out the hard way about the Sonos song limit, and the myriad forums I've been on to find a solution, yours is the first one that's done what I needed. Thank you thank you. (All of that is not to say that Sonos shouldn't be working on their own solution - it's shameful that their development team has made zero progress on an in-house solution.)
Userlevel 3
Alexander. THANK YOU. I just checked out - and purchased - Subsonic. Not only does it get around the 65000-song limit, it looks like it might even replace my Plex app for remote access to my library, as well as casting movies to my Chromecasts. (I'll test all that stuff tomorrow.) In the 6 months since I found out the hard way about the Sonos song limit, and the myriad forums I've been on to find a solution, yours is the first one that's done what I needed. Thank you thank you. (All of that is not to say that Sonos shouldn't be working on their own solution - it's shameful that their development team has made zero progress on an in-house solution.)
Great that the comment could help, strange that the hint to Subsonic didn't come earlier in these 65k threads.

I is my opinion as well, that - as it is not possible to circumvent the 65k limit on the PlayX / Playbar / Bridge / Boost side (memory limitation) - something like a Subsonic appliance (but from Sonos and easy to use) would be THE BEST addition to Sonos since - ever. It could even come with some storage or the possibility to add an external HD. BAM!! NAS not necessary anymore.
Alexander. THANK YOU. I just checked out - and purchased - Subsonic. Not only does it get around the 65000-song limit, it looks like it might even replace my Plex app for remote access to my library, as well as casting movies to my Chromecasts. (I'll test all that stuff tomorrow.) In the 6 months since I found out the hard way about the Sonos song limit, and the myriad forums I've been on to find a solution, yours is the first one that's done what I needed. Thank you thank you. (All of that is not to say that Sonos shouldn't be working on their own solution - it's shameful that their development team has made zero progress on an in-house solution.)
Count me in as another audiophile unaware of this 65k track limit until I couldn't find some of the albums in my 1.8 terabyte collection. I have two subs, two play 5s and two play 1s. That's a lot of money Sonos. And I don't appreciate the secrecy behind it. There have been many comments made here, and in this day and age, it seems to me that this barrier should be a simple problem to remedy. I won't be buying any more components and I may actually take my losses now and hit eBay. I wonder what Bose is working on....
Userlevel 7
Badge +22
Alexander. THANK YOU. I just checked out - and purchased - Subsonic. Not only does it get around the 65000-song limit, it looks like it might even replace my Plex app for remote access to my library, as well as casting movies to my Chromecasts. (I'll test all that stuff tomorrow.) In the 6 months since I found out the hard way about the Sonos song limit, and the myriad forums I've been on to find a solution, yours is the first one that's done what I needed. Thank you thank you. (All of that is not to say that Sonos shouldn't be working on their own solution - it's shameful that their development team has made zero progress on an in-house solution.)
Have you tried running a server to support your large collection. The 65k limit is related to sonos on board indexing. Using one of the external media server options does the indexing outside sonos and therefore alleviates the issue the way most other products do as well.
Userlevel 3
Alexander. THANK YOU. I just checked out - and purchased - Subsonic. Not only does it get around the 65000-song limit, it looks like it might even replace my Plex app for remote access to my library, as well as casting movies to my Chromecasts. (I'll test all that stuff tomorrow.) In the 6 months since I found out the hard way about the Sonos song limit, and the myriad forums I've been on to find a solution, yours is the first one that's done what I needed. Thank you thank you. (All of that is not to say that Sonos shouldn't be working on their own solution - it's shameful that their development team has made zero progress on an in-house solution.)
Bob, have you read my post 1 before Erich at all before lamenting? Subsonic is a very easy way to circumvent the problem completely.

Selling your stuff is the worst solution. Bose has nothing comparable.
Alexander. THANK YOU. I just checked out - and purchased - Subsonic. Not only does it get around the 65000-song limit, it looks like it might even replace my Plex app for remote access to my library, as well as casting movies to my Chromecasts. (I'll test all that stuff tomorrow.) In the 6 months since I found out the hard way about the Sonos song limit, and the myriad forums I've been on to find a solution, yours is the first one that's done what I needed. Thank you thank you. (All of that is not to say that Sonos shouldn't be working on their own solution - it's shameful that their development team has made zero progress on an in-house solution.)
Just get Jamcast and use the Jamcast Sonos device.  It can do your whole library. I am playing > 200K songs on Sonos system with Jamcast,  It does require a PC running but so what.  I have a ton of old laptops and any of them will work for this.
Superb post Cactus, thanks VERY much for the significant time you took writing that.

One of the arguments I've seen for Sonos sticking with things as they have been for so long is the challenge of retaining compatibility with existing kit. I'd definitely be pissed off if a new Sonos box was flat-out incompatible with my existing setup (unless there was a replacement amnesty... yeah right!).

 BUT perhaps adding a software switch available in new devices that allowed either existing product compatibility or greatly expanded library support would do the trick? I'd be very interested in a solution that meant I could work my way towards bigger library support by swapping out older devices one by one and then just switch it on when I'm there with up-to-date gear. Sonos would get existing customers to buy gear all over again, and I wouldn't get in trouble at home for a single massive spend on stuff I "already have"! 😃
Userlevel 3
A "software switch" wouldn't be necessary. Sonos could simply offer a Sonos-NAS device with music-service-like behavior. Just like Subsonic does on PCs.
Badge
I have decided to not buy this system. There are many new products coming out NOW that exceed features and sound quality of the 10 year old Sonos product line. I really do not understand people spending 400.00 on dated technology with memory limitation????? lol......these might be the same people who bought homes on 5year fixed and lost everything later. There are really nice new products out there now....compare !!!!!
"I really do not understand people spending 400.00 on dated technology with memory limitation?????
lol......these might be the same people who bought homes on 5year fixed and lost everything later."

Nothing like a condescending prick to display such arrogance.
Userlevel 7
Badge +22
I have decided to not buy this system. There are many new products coming out NOW that exceed features and sound quality of the 10 year old Sonos product line. I really do not understand people spending 400.00 on dated technology with memory limitation????? lol......these might be the same people who bought homes on 5year fixed and lost everything later. There are really nice new products out there now....compare !!!!!
Your right about that. Come on here and call us all stupid next time when we know what our needs are and how Sonos satisfies them. Well more Than $400 spent and well worth every penny and will spend more. Haven't seen anything comparable out there yet. And I don't consider a $400 speaker expensive in the audio world.
Userlevel 1
Hello JSchulte,

We don't have any updates right now about the 65k track limit, the Idea thread for this can be found here. This is a hardware limitation based on the amount of memory on Sonos components which can be allocated to storing our Music Index. As Sonos adds new components to the system, we're constantly trying to keep legacy units fully compatible so our customer's don't have to go out and buy the newest model. 

You can have up to 32 Sonos components setup in your home and each one with extend the Sonos wireless network, so if you're putting on on each floor, they should all be within range. Depending on environment, this range is about 30-50 feet.

There are workarounds for the 65k track limit posted on our User Forums but our recommendation is a music service such as Amazon Cloud Player (in countries where it's available). 

Cheers

You are losing more and more customers...  People love your products but are now searching for alternatives.  People will gladly replace "legacy" components, if need be, to have the option to expand.  Having to DELETE music is horrible.
Userlevel 7
Badge +22
Hello JSchulte,

We don't have any updates right now about the 65k track limit, the Idea thread for this can be found here. This is a hardware limitation based on the amount of memory on Sonos components which can be allocated to storing our Music Index. As Sonos adds new components to the system, we're constantly trying to keep legacy units fully compatible so our customer's don't have to go out and buy the newest model. 

You can have up to 32 Sonos components setup in your home and each one with extend the Sonos wireless network, so if you're putting on on each floor, they should all be within range. Depending on environment, this range is about 30-50 feet.

There are workarounds for the 65k track limit posted on our User Forums but our recommendation is a music service such as Amazon Cloud Player (in countries where it's available). 

Cheers

Peter I'm not contradicting you regarding at some point sonos needs to expand beyond 65k with their onboard indexing. But how many normal consumers really go over 65k. Other companies use server software which feeds the devices therefore not having the limit. But sonos can do that too just most people like the sonos ease of running no server side computer. Sonos should however allow a greater variety of server software to be used like Dlna
Userlevel 7
Badge +22
Hello JSchulte,

We don't have any updates right now about the 65k track limit, the Idea thread for this can be found here. This is a hardware limitation based on the amount of memory on Sonos components which can be allocated to storing our Music Index. As Sonos adds new components to the system, we're constantly trying to keep legacy units fully compatible so our customer's don't have to go out and buy the newest model. 

You can have up to 32 Sonos components setup in your home and each one with extend the Sonos wireless network, so if you're putting on on each floor, they should all be within range. Depending on environment, this range is about 30-50 feet.

There are workarounds for the 65k track limit posted on our User Forums but our recommendation is a music service such as Amazon Cloud Player (in countries where it's available). 

Cheers

I guess my question is what are the alternatives with onboard indexing no server apples-apples
Userlevel 1
Hi,
I didn't get it. The solution to use m3u files instead of the files itself: Does it mean that I have to seperate the m3u files and the mp3s? I'm using OSX. Is there a tool for Mac to create all these need m3u files?