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BBC RADIO



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Well, good luck with that. If anything, the BBC is even more obscure about developments than Sonos! They took a pasting last year over the Audio Factory fiasco from users on their blog ... they essentially shut the discussion down, and went their own way.


I've heard they can be a bit provincial, not to mention a little ornery. State owned and operated media can be like that. I work for a state run entity that actually makes a profit, but if you could see the antiquated hardware and processes I have to put up with, you'd think we were running at a deficit. The phrase "good enough for government work" applies, with "good enough" usually meaning no modern hardware or software gets introduced until you can't buy the old stuff anymore. I had a tape drive (Yes! A tape drive!) break down yesterday and I swear they are going to have to dig in the big warehouse where they stored the Ark of the Covenant to find a replacement. In private industry, the average life of the systems I use is 6 years, we are going on 18 and counting with ours. It wasn't that long ago that we finally abandoned 9-tracks for our data transfers. I imagine the BBC has the same sort of bureaucratic paralysis when it comes to embracing new technology.


Actually, the BBC are very innovative when it comes to technology - their online platforms are vastly superior to other services. Where they falter is interfacing with outside corporate entities who have profit as their essential bottom line. Unlike the Irish government & Apple they can't risk being seen to favour any partner over others!

The BBC isn't state-owned - it exists as an independent entity funded through a licence fee. It does operate commercial arms (eg..BBC America, etc).
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[quote=jgatie] Though Sonos is a leading partner in developing an a truly modern and flexible wireless casting method, starting with the new Spotify announcement; with Pandora to follow. Perhaps the BBC can be convinced to make use of that? But then again, it would require cooperation from the BBC, something you claim isn't needed. It may also require posting these types of laments over at the BBC, something you seem so reluctant to do.

I said BBC collaboration would not be required for a Squeezebox style iPlayer feature inside Sonos. I've said nothing about this feature you are now talking about, so please stop putting words into my mouth. I don't even know what this Spotify announcement is, so have no thoughts at all on what it might mean for the BBC.
[Actually, the BBC are very innovative when it comes to technology - their online platforms are vastly superior to other services. Where they falter is interfacing with outside corporate entities who have profit as their essential bottom line. Unlike the Irish government & Apple they can't risk being seen to favour any partner over others!

The BBC isn't state-owned - it exists as an independent entity funded through a licence fee. It does operate commercial arms (eg..BBC America, etc).


Tomatoh / Tomahto. Anything established by government, operating under an agreement with government, is regulated by government, has its fees set by government, and is funded by a mandatory fee (aka a hypothecated tax) on every citizen who owns a TV, is "state owned" in my humble opinion. YMMV.

I said BBC collaboration would not be required for a Squeezebox style iPlayer feature inside Sonos. I've said nothing about this feature you are now talking about, so please stop putting words into my mouth. I don't even know what this Spotify announcement is, so have no thoughts at all on what it might mean for the BBC.


Good thing, because you were 100% wrong in your former statement. I shudder to think what kind of limb you'd be out on if you commented on the latter.
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I don't know how hard it is, and only sonos know why they gave up on "play to sonos". But it appears to me that google carried on with it, with I would guess a bigger development team and budget, and released the GCA with wifi multiroom streaming.
Guess sonos where busy wasting 2 years development on an external speaker, they then shelved, then let the team go ;O)
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[Actually, the BBC are very innovative when it comes to technology - their online platforms are vastly superior to other services. Where they falter is interfacing with outside corporate entities who have profit as their essential bottom line. Unlike the Irish government & Apple they can't risk being seen to favour any partner over others!

The BBC isn't state-owned - it exists as an independent entity funded through a licence fee. It does operate commercial arms (eg..BBC America, etc).


Tomatoh / Tomahto. Anything established by government, operates under an agreement with government, is regulated by government, has its fees set by government, and is funded by a mandatory fee (aka a hypothecated tax) on every citizen who owns a TV, is "state owned" in my humble opinion. YMMV.


Then all the automobiles running on US highways fall into that definition .... it's not so ideological here in Europe where people are happy to accept 'state-entities' as long as they provide good services and facilities at reasonable prices. Still, we're getting off-topic.

I think the main moan from BBC fans with Sonos is that the Tunein experience of listen again is pretty dire
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Plus the iplayer radio app is a stylish GUI, with great visuals, with a search that can be trusted.
I don't know how hard it is, and only sonos know why they gave up on "play to sonos". But it appears to me that google carried on with it, with I would guess a bigger development team and budget, and released the GCA with wifi multiroom streaming.
Guess sonos where busy wasting 2 years development on an external speaker, they then shelved, then let the team go ;O)


Stop being so obtuse. You stated as fact the BBC's job is done, when you yourself posted a thread asking for what happened to this capability, and it was explained to you that the preferred type of casting (and the one you were asking about) had the following requirement: "the apps would each need new coding to be capable of doing this."

In short, for the BBC and any other service wanting direct casting to Sonos, it is not the case that "surely their job is done".
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I said BBC collaboration would not be required for a Squeezebox style iPlayer feature inside Sonos. I've said nothing about this feature you are now talking about, so please stop putting words into my mouth. I don't even know what this Spotify announcement is, so have no thoughts at all on what it might mean for the BBC.


Good thing, because you were 100% wrong in your former statement. I shudder to think what kind of limb you'd be out on if you commented on the latter.


Except that it's already been done, without any BBC collaboration, for Squeezebox. Interesting definition of 100% wrong.
Then all the automobiles running on US highways fall into that definition .... it's not so ideological here in Europe where people are happy to accept 'state-entities' as long as they provide good services and facilities at reasonable prices. Still, we're getting off-topic.

I think the main moan from BBC fans with Sonos is that the Tunein experience of listen again is pretty dire


Like I said, Tomatoh / Tomahto. Not the first time, nor will it be the last, that Brits and Americans disagree about something. Cheers! 😃

Except that it's already been done, without any BBC collaboration, for Squeezebox. Interesting definition of 100% wrong.


I said you were 100% wrong when you said Sonos could do it without collaboration with the BBC. So time to put up or shut up. Prove to me that Logitech themselves made a BBC iPlayer plugin without the permission or cooperation of the BBC.
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Except that it's already been done, without any BBC collaboration, for Squeezebox. Interesting definition of 100% wrong.


I said you were 100% wrong when you said Sonos could do it without collaboration with the BBC. So time to put up or shut up. Prove to me that Logitech themselves made a BBC iPlayer plugin without the permission or cooperation of the BBC.


3rd party open source developers made a iPlayer plugin for SB that delivers what most people seem to want from an iPlayer plugin. Fact. The BBC did not collaborate with them on this. Fact. Therefore Sonos could do the same. Fact.

If, as some people are claiming, that the issue is about licensing, then it's a case of Sonos not being willing to put their hands in their pockets and pay up. So it's not a question of collaboration. The BBC APIs are there to use.

3rd party open source developers made a iPlayer plugin for SB that delivers what most people seem to want from an iPlayer plugin. Fact. The BBC did not collaborate with them on this. Fact. Therefore Sonos could do the same. Fact.

If, as some people are claiming, that the issue is about licensing, then it's a case of Sonos not being willing to put their hands in their pockets and pay up. So it's not a question of collaboration. The BBC APIs are there to use.


Oh so it actually was third part developers using Open Source, not an effort from programmers within Logitech? Third party developers that are basically immune from licensing and distribution rights laws because they are independent from the big pockets of Logitech? Kind of 180 degrees from what you said before. I see we can now know how much to trust your information in the future.

And it doesn't have to do with money. It has to do with the BBC wanting full control over the access and distribution of their copyrighted content. You are the one saying it has to do with money, nobody else ever said anything about money. It's about access. Period.

Besides, if it actually required fees, wouldn't that necessitate financial collaboration between the BBC and Sonos, thus proving your statement that collaboration was not needed to be 100% false? Nice corner you've backed yourself into. 😃
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3rd party open source developers made a iPlayer plugin for SB that delivers what most people seem to want from an iPlayer plugin. Fact. The BBC did not collaborate with them on this. Fact. Therefore Sonos could do the same. Fact.

If, as some people are claiming, that the issue is about licensing, then it's a case of Sonos not being willing to put their hands in their pockets and pay up. So it's not a question of collaboration. The BBC APIs are there to use.


Oh so it actually was third part developers using Open Source, not an effort from programmers within Logitech? Third party developers that are basically immune from licensing and distribution rights laws because they are independent from the big pockets of Logitech? Kind of 180 degrees from what you said before. I see we can now know how much to trust your information in the future.

And it doesn't have to do with money. It has to do with the BBC wanting full control over the access and distribution of their copyrighted content. You are the one saying it has to do with money, nobody else ever said anything about money. It's about access. Period.


I'm guessing what these 'barriers' to Sonos doing an iPlayer app could be as I'm not the one who said they were there. You seem to know a lot about the legal and political reasons why it can't be done, how about you provide evidence to show this?



I'm guessing what these 'barriers' to Sonos doing an iPlayer app could be as I'm not the one who said they were there. You seem to know a lot about the legal and political reasons why it can't be done, how about you provide evidence to show this?


Not too hard to find.

From: http://www.bbc.co.uk/terms/business.shtml#5

2. General prohibition of use and intellectual property rights

2.1 Unless otherwise expressly stated in the Additional Terms of a particular BBC Online Service:

2.1.1 you may not copy, reproduce, republish, disassemble, decompile, reverse engineer, download, post, broadcast, transmit, distribute, lend, hire, sub-license, rent, perform, make a derivative work from, make available to the public, adapt, alter, edit, re-position, frame, rebrand, change or otherwise use in any way any BBC Online Services and/or BBC Content in whole or in part on your product or service or elsewhere or permit or assist any third party to do the same except to the extent permitted at law ("Restricted Acts");
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I'm guessing what these 'barriers' to Sonos doing an iPlayer app could be as I'm not the one who said they were there. You seem to know a lot about the legal and political reasons why it can't be done, how about you provide evidence to show this?


Not too hard to find.

From: http://www.bbc.co.uk/terms/business.shtml#5

2. General prohibition of use and intellectual property rights

2.1 Unless otherwise expressly stated in the Additional Terms of a particular BBC Online Service:

2.1.1 you may not copy, reproduce, republish, disassemble, decompile, reverse engineer, download, post, broadcast, transmit, distribute, lend, hire, sub-license, rent, perform, make a derivative work from, make available to the public, adapt, alter, edit, re-position, frame, rebrand, change or otherwise use in any way any BBC Online Services and/or BBC Content in whole or in part on your product or service or elsewhere or permit or assist any third party to do the same except to the extent permitted at law ("Restricted Acts");


Don't see how a Sonos iPlayer plugin would fall foul of that. It's just providing a way for users to access the content.

Don't see how a Sonos iPlayer plugin would fall foul of that. It's just providing a way for users to access the content.


ME DIES!!!!!

Nobody said it would fall foul! Nobody said it was not possible! We said they can't just unilaterally decide to do it without the BBC! Just who do you think makes the decision that Sonos would be able to "otherwise use in any way any BBC Online Services and/or BBC Content in whole or in part on (their) product or service"?

Mary Poppins?
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I'm guessing what these 'barriers' to Sonos doing an iPlayer app could be as I'm not the one who said they were there. You seem to know a lot about the legal and political reasons why it can't be done, how about you provide evidence to show this?


Not too hard to find.

From: http://www.bbc.co.uk/terms/business.shtml#5

2. General prohibition of use and intellectual property rights

2.1 Unless otherwise expressly stated in the Additional Terms of a particular BBC Online Service:

2.1.1 you may not copy, reproduce, republish, disassemble, decompile, reverse engineer, download, post, broadcast, transmit, distribute, lend, hire, sub-license, rent, perform, make a derivative work from, make available to the public, adapt, alter, edit, re-position, frame, rebrand, change or otherwise use in any way any BBC Online Services and/or BBC Content in whole or in part on your product or service or elsewhere or permit or assist any third party to do the same except to the extent permitted at law ("Restricted Acts");


Don't see how a Sonos iPlayer plugin would fall foul of that. It's just providing a way for users to access the content.


And again, plenty of other companies make devices with iPlayer functionality, so quite clearly, Sonos could do the same if they wanted to.
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Don't see how a Sonos iPlayer plugin would fall foul of that. It's just providing a way for users to access the content.


ME DIES!!!!!

Nobody said it would run afoul! Nobody said it was not possible! We said it requires the permission and collaboration of the BBC. And just who do you think makes the decision that Sonos would be able to "otherwise use in any way any BBC Online Services and/or BBC Content in whole or in part on (their) product or service"? Mary Poppins?


Permission is not the same collaboration. Lots of other companies have permission. Why not Sonos?

Permission is not the same collaboration. Lots of other companies have permission. Why not Sonos?


Maybe in your book. But that is neither here nor there. I stated that Sonos could not unilaterally do it on their own. You said they could. Turns out they cant. End of story. You were wrong.

Now ask all the other questions you want in order to deflect from that fact. I'll not be answering.
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Permission is not the same collaboration. Lots of other companies have permission. Why not Sonos?


Maybe in your book. But that is neither here nor there. I stated that Sonos could not unilaterally do it on their own. You said they could. Turns out they cant. End of story. You were wrong.

Now ask all the other questions you want in order to deflect from that fact. I'll not be answering.


What will I do without you?
@castalla @thomashenry in my opinion arguing with the Cult Of Sonos is a waste of time. IMO for those of us who are Sonos and Squeezebox users, ignoring them is best course of action. But YMMV of course.

Back on topic,. @Thomashenry Your new gen2 play5 speaker is very nice sounding. Sonos makes it seamless to use of the line in - plug a squeeze device (or chromecast, another multi room audio system that supports iPlayer that can also be used as a squeezeplayer) in for iPlayer support. For example, Picoreplayer 3.0 has LMS built in so an RPi is all you need to keep a full LMS/player going) or use the LMStoUPNP plugin to treat your Sonos as a Squeezeplayer.

Moderator notes from Ryan S: Edited out some of the personal attacks. Let's keep it friendly around here.
Awww, someone said the magic words and *poof* they appear! It's like Beetlejuice!


There absolutely is one. A simple google will confirm that. I don't know why you may have heard differently.


Correct, simple check of the Waybackmachine which shows an official Logitech Mysqueezebox.com BBC App available. https://web.archive.org/web/20100129100859/http://www.mysqueezebox.com/index/Home

Why Sonos didn't bother developing one (or wasn't allowed to do so) is anyone's guess. . Can't wait for Sonos to add voice control to my SqueezeboxSonos system lol.
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Awww, someone said the magic words and *poof* they appear! It's like Beetlejuice!

Enjoying yourself, pal?