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AirPlay 2 request



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Apologies - as with @jgatie, my comment wasn't aimed at you, but threads take on a life of their own. It's the doom-mongers I take issue with. I respect their right to express their view but it's a public forum and I claim my right to challenge their views. I personally have also found Airplay to be unreliable. You have clearly not had any problems. I would rather Sonos had nothing to do with it because I think the "through the device" technology of the original Airplay is inconsistent with Sonos' technology and could be detrimental to the Sonos experience. Maybe Airplay 2 takes a different approach? Anyway, you are of course entitled to request any feature you wish.


It would be better to point out posts and not the entire thread. People will always make posts like that in others' threads just as there are those that dismiss valid points in order to point out nonsensical posts which don't align to the OP.


You are correct. I should not have painted with that broad a brush. My apologies.
The inclusion of AirPlay 2 support would also allow multi-room playing
I used Airplay via AEX back in 2011 when I was getting my feet wet in the world of wireless streaming. As an audiophile interested in regaining a sane life, it allowed me to realise that there is no sound quality compromise involved in music streaming, but I wasn't happy with music play up times. Too many drops and delayed starts in any place that was a little distance from the router. I therefore moved to Sonos for its reputation for much better up time and for its multi room capability and no regrets on either count in 2017 for having done so.

But I find little use for the multi room feature except when grouping speakers in a single large open space. With other users in the home now using streaming services that they could also independently access regardless of which system was chosen, I can't see how this is a Sonos USP any more. But the open question to my mind with Airplay 2 is system stability and whether that has improved beyond what it was in 2011 by virtue of all music working on a hub spoke basis with every Airplay enabled speaker having to get its signals only from the router and not from a speaker to speaker mesh of the kind Sonos offers. If nothing has changed on that front, there are still very good reasons I would not go back to Airplay even with its new labelling.
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And it never fails that any time someone makes a feature request, they get dumped on by the fanboys that think their company of choice is perfect and can do no better.. until they introduce a feature on their own accord.

It would be interesting to see a feature request page that could have a voting system like what Sophos uses for their feature requests. It helps to know what they want to focus their developers on potentially.
Sigh.... heard it all a thousand times. Sonos does all I need of it (including Netflix audio via Playbar). But I understand that other people have different needs. I don't know whether Sonos has the right business strategy. What amazes me are the number of people who have never run as much as a whelk stall who think they know the best strategy for a multi-billion dollar global tech company. I declare my ignorance.
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My OP for this thread did nothing of the such. And if you read the thread you're bashing, you'll see where myself and others post how it's not so flawless.

I just want to raise my voice to a need that myself and others desire and for what purpose.


Unless I quoted your OP, you can assume I wasn't addessing it directly. I was specifically speaking to the poster who predicted loss of sales and a sell off by current Sonos owners due to its "dying ecosystem", followed by "SONOS WAKE UP!"


It would be better to point out posts and not the entire thread. People will always make posts like that in others' threads just as there are those that dismiss valid points in order to point out nonsensical posts which don't align to the OP.
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... to avoid having an AirPort Express in each room ...

Two points:

1. You do not need an AirPort Express in each room. You only need one AirPort Express, located near and plugged in to a CONNECT or a PLAY:5, per simultaneous AirPlay stream.

2. You only need an AirPort Express if you want to stream music from a service SONOS does not support.


So Netflix, HULU, Amazon Video, YouTube etc etc


My OP for this thread did nothing of the such. And if you read the thread you're bashing, you'll see where myself and others post how it's not so flawless.

I just want to raise my voice to a need that myself and others desire and for what purpose.


Unless I quoted your OP, you can assume I wasn't addessing it directly. I was specifically speaking to the poster who predicted loss of sales and a sell off by current Sonos owners due to its "dying ecosystem", followed by "SONOS WAKE UP!"
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Gee, a thread predicting Sonos' doom for not supporting an Apple implementation that may accomplish what Sonos did flawlessly back in 2005? Now where have I heard that before?

My OP for this thread did nothing of the such. And if you read the thread you're bashing, you'll see where myself and others post how it's not so flawless.

I just want to raise my voice to a need that myself and others desire and for what purpose.
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Gee, a thread predicting Sonos' doom for not supporting an Apple implementation that may accomplish what Sonos did flawlessly back in 2005? Now where have I heard that before?

It's not about doom. But its common for companies to see sales stall or contract when a former partner decides to enter the market themselves. What happened to all the other players after Apple & MS entered the mp3 player market? Being the incumbent doesn't make you entitled.
Gee, a thread predicting Sonos' doom for not supporting an Apple implementation that may accomplish what Sonos did flawlessly back in 2005? Now where have I heard that before?
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OK, I admit it, I am a frustrated Sonos customer. Looks like I did a mistake in trusting that Sonos has a sustainable vision, power and intelligence to execute on it.

Much like GoPro, Sonos managed to be the first generating a huge success in an innovative product niche but they seem to overestimate the uniqueness of their products, underestimate the speed of competitors and they seem to not understand (or ignore or patronize) part of their customers.

Let's face it, there are much better hifi wlan speakers with multiroom support available, that are maybe more expensive but not so expensive that someone, who is spending thousands to equip the house with (Sonos) speakers, wouldn't consider buying them (e.g. Dynaudio Xeos / Focus). On the lower end Amazon and Apple release their own speakers with maximum ecosystem integration.

Competitors software may lack some of the integration features of the Sonos app but it is most likely a matter of months until you can ask e.g Alexa to arrange playlists and play streams from any source in a set of rooms - and on IOS it will be likely the same for those supporting Airplay2 / HomeKit.

More than a year ago Play5 was released with microphones. Did I miss an announcement what they are for? Is it enough for a tech company to release yet another speaker every 1-2 years to stay ahead of the competition and survive? Except for cosmetic changes and one more streaming service every year that is only of very minor interest for the majority of users, what are the big improvements and new functionality in the IOS app (except trueplay)? Remember that it took months and years of begging until Sonos implemented a simple 'Repeat one' functionality into their playlists?

"We’re constantly looking for ways to improve the experience – with new products, new software and continually investing in ways to provide our customers with the best experience possible."

Above is part of Sonos' vision statement. I hear it but I don't see it executed.

In these days you are either innovative enough to make your own ecosystem a success, you are solvent enough to establish your ecosystem or you integrate with - and extend (and stay ahead of) capabilities of existing leading ecosystems.

For Sonos, with the exception of trueplay, I don't see the innovation (anymore) and I doubt they are solvent enough, so they should go for integration with ecosystems (what they partially did with Amazon). So it makes a lot of sense to integrate with Apple too - and "the best user experience", to quote Sonos, is a complete HomeKit integration.

If Sonos decides to continue to ignore the questions, wishes and worries of their users, an increasing number will hold back further purchases of Sonos products. Some might decide to sell now, before the public realizes that Sonos might be a dying ecosystem and resale value drops.

SONOS WAKE UP!!!
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I'm AMAZED Apple is selling Sonos in their own stores...

I'm sure it's only a matter of time before Apple quietly starts removing Sonos from the retail locations.
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What is yet to be seen with AirPlay 2/HomePod and multi-room support is the ability to stream multiple streams from Apple Music to different speaker groups. With Sonos, I can start Apple Music within the Sonos app and push two different songs/stations/playlists to multiple speakers or groups. I can then leave the house and it all keeps playing. Not sure that AirPlay 2 or the HomePod will implement this out the gate.


Visually, it appears AirPlay 2 will support pushing multiple streams to grouped and individual speakers simultaneously. I still am curious if the HomePod can play music without the iDevice having to "push" the music similarly to how Sonos Playbar runs Apple Music.

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Is Airplay 2 just rebranded Play-Fi? With all the existing Play-Fi members listed as partners I have to wonder if Apple really produced anything new as opposed to just co-opting existing technology.

Also what is the release date for this? I assume it will be available a lot sooner than the Homepod?


It will ship with iOS 11 which will be in the Fall I believe. Existing speakers will likely need a firmware update to support.
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SONOS, please listen to your customers and make their wish reality. Your speakers are not cheap to fear about paying Apple Airplay royalties.
I am certainly holding off indefinitely of buying another SONOS product until there's some announcement about Airplay support. If it doesn't arrive till the end of the year, I will switch entirely to HomePods.
Is Airplay 2 just rebranded Play-Fi? With all the existing Play-Fi members listed as partners I have to wonder if Apple really produced anything new as opposed to just co-opting existing technology.

Also what is the release date for this? I assume it will be available a lot sooner than the Homepod?
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1. You do not need an AirPort Express in each room. You only need one AirPort Express, located near and plugged in to a CONNECT or a PLAY:5, per simultaneous AirPlay stream.


That's correct. Once again though, the kludginess comes into play with having to go into the Sonos app and group the speakers you want to play together in addition to pushing the stream to the AirPlay device connected to the Sonos Connect.



2. You only need an AirPort Express if you want to stream music from a service SONOS does not support.


I'm tracking... Proud owner of a multi-room Sonos setup to include a Connect which is setup to a pre-amp that has both my AirPort Express and turntable connected to the inputs.
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... to avoid having an AirPort Express in each room ...

Two points:

1. You do not need an AirPort Express in each room. You only need one AirPort Express, located near and plugged in to a CONNECT or a PLAY:5, per simultaneous AirPlay stream.

2. You only need an AirPort Express if you want to stream music from a service SONOS does not support.
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kind of, spotify app can set the volume of the group in spotify itself and has has a kind of "more" button for when you need to group speakers (which pops up the sonos app, like in that video, but from grouping the speakers you've got an epic trek to set it's volume, and that awful if it's volume was up high last time it was used and you're using it late at night).

Even using sonos's app, if you want to add a speaker to an already playing group but want to make sure you're not blasted by sound, you have to either:-

1) Add it and pray
2) pause the music then you will find it's volume slider will show when you touch the volume slider
3) switch to the group it's currently in, and set it's volume, switch back, and add it to the group.

They can make good hardware, but their apps are really not great from an experience point of view.

Simple changes like adding volume sliders to the grouping screen would make life so much easier.

Also on a tangent permanent groups that speakers are always a member of would be nice, eg "upstairs" or "getting ready for work" and "whole house" currently my alarm (bedroom only) removes the bedroom from the group and then I have to re-add it every morning, simple way of handling conflicts would be if a perm group starts playing something, all speakers in it return to it if they're not already in it.

Sound, once set up, is supposed to get out of the way and just be there, not require thinking about or babysitting.
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I think not having AirPlay2 will be a deal killer for many. The SONOS iOS app is nice but I sometimes want to sit around and watch something on my iPad and still have good audio.

Now that's AirPlay2 can natively support multiroom audio in an easy to use manner which was the main use for the SONOS app really I fail to see why AirPlay won't be integrated. Look I get that AirPlay may not have the same fidelity as SONOS but usability comes first.

My girlfriend returned her Playbase and Play5 when she found out they couldn't do AirPlay. I'm AMAZED Apple is selling Sonos in their own stores...


My thoughts exactly.. it's a huge drawback. Although it's not been a deal killer for me, I'm still hopeful Sonos will listen. What is yet to be seen with AirPlay 2/HomePod and multi-room support is the ability to stream multiple streams from Apple Music to different speaker groups. With Sonos, I can start Apple Music within the Sonos app and push two different songs/stations/playlists to multiple speakers or groups. I can then leave the house and it all keeps playing. Not sure that AirPlay 2 or the HomePod will implement this out the gate.
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I think not having AirPlay2 will be a deal killer for many. The SONOS iOS app is nice but I sometimes want to sit around and watch something on my iPad and still have good audio.

Now that's AirPlay2 can natively support multiroom audio in an easy to use manner which was the main use for the SONOS app really I fail to see why AirPlay won't be integrated. Look I get that AirPlay may not have the same fidelity as SONOS but usability comes first.

My girlfriend returned her Playbase and Play5 when she found out they couldn't do AirPlay. I'm AMAZED Apple is selling Sonos in their own stores...
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Oh, so it's a Spotify integration issue within the Sonos app.. I don't use Spotify. That's a bummer though.
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Volume issue here best bit is it likes to do it at silly o'clock and I have neighbours...:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDOKNI2VuIA

And it took me seconds to design a screen that could be used in place of the group speaker screen spotify opens in the sonos app:-



add speakers and set volume in one step (it's kind of like they're not trying) 😕
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I mentioned Bose as I would rate their sound quality, in case there is the assumption the homepod would be inferior. I went with sonos as they "integrated" with spotify (if we can call it that, you can't group speakers in spotify, nor can you change an individual speaker's volume. that coupled with the volume issue is just icing on the cake.

So if I can press one of 6 buttons on a Bose to play a given playlist on a given set of speakers without getting my phone out, fantastic, couple that with being to group, ungroup and set volume individually without loading an app up...

The nicest part of the Spotify "integration" is when you're in spotify, and want to add a speaker to the group and set the volume, it pops up the sonos app and you can add a speaker to the group but not set volumes, so you click out, return to spotify, press the home button, launch the sonos app, which is still on the grouping screen, go to the main screen, then go to the now playing screen, then the volume control then you can finally set a speaker's volume.

Smooth.


I'm just not interested in jumping ship from Sonos as I truly love the sound quality and the grouping features within the Sonos App. The inclusion of AirPlay 2 support would also allow multi-room playing without the kludginess of the Sonos app though. What are the volume issues you have? I definitely notice that switching inputs keeps the volume at what it was for the previous input which is irritating. I'd like to set a default per input.