Privacy statement concern
Am I the only one that finds the new privacy statement disturbing? I cannot recall ever being told when I bought my seven products over a period of time that Sonos had the right to threaten disabling my property if I didn't pass over personal information. Does anyone in the UK know if, by law, they can blackmail consumers in this way, post-purchase?
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When your argument breaks down, attack the number of posts a person has. How incredibly boring, especially when by your math, over the 9 years I've been posting, I've spent exactly .030% of my time here.
Of course, like your points, your math is wrong. 13869 min ÷ (60 min/hr * 24 hr/day) = 9 days and change. 🆒
Of course, like your points, your math is wrong. 13869 min ÷ (60 min/hr * 24 hr/day) = 9 days and change. 🆒
Userlevel 4
+9
Maybe unexpectedly, but I don’t strongly disagree with anything you wrote, you are just missing my point.
The (potential) outrage is around existing customers required to agree with a substantively different (for lack of better wording) value of goods and interaction model. It is unheard of for a consumer goods company to demand a customer who has paid for the goods, do something new for that company or their goods will no longer function.
jgatie, you have 13869 replies; if you spent (at least) a minute per post, that’s almost one full day of your life on a Sonos support platform. Hopefully you are enjoying your speakers when typing away, with their policy, Sonos can probably figure out what room you are replying in and other details….. 🆒
Userlevel 2
+1
Maybe unexpectedly, but I don’t strongly disagree with anything you wrote, you are just missing my point.
The (potential) outrage is around existing customers required to agree with a substantively different (for lack of better wording) value of goods and interaction model. It is unheard of for a consumer goods company to demand a customer who has paid for the goods, do something new for that company or their goods will no longer function.
jgatie, you have 13869 replies; if you spent (at least) a minute per post, that’s almost one full day of your life on a Sonos support platform. Hopefully you are enjoying your speakers when typing away, with their policy, Sonos can probably figure out what room you are replying in and other details….. 🆒
People aren't outraged because they actually read the privacy policy terms, and realize that if they do not choose to activate the voice control features, then the new conditions do not apply. In other words, acknowledging the privacy policy and performing the update in no way forces you to comply with the new data collection. That only occurs if you voluntarily activate voice control. Also, the data shared via the voice control partnership is the same exact data Sonos has been collecting all along; nothing new is being collected. In other words, it is much ado about nothing.
Userlevel 4
+9
I can't imagine the local library will ever stop functioning regardless of Internet connectivity. I take a portion of my Sonos gear and my local library with me on the road in my RV, which nine times out of ten doesn't have an Internet connection. The local library not playing over the Sonos kit with no Internet connection would be a huge problem for me, and I'd think for Sonos also.
Exactly, same as installing a Playbar/Playbase and then disconnect it from the network, it will always continue playback from the TV without updating. It's changes in online services (e.g Spotify around 6.0 release) that can require an update to continue functioning.
I can't imagine the local library will ever stop functioning regardless of Internet connectivity. I take a portion of my Sonos gear and my local library with me on the road in my RV, which nine times out of ten doesn't have an Internet connection. The local library not playing over the Sonos kit with no Internet connection would be a huge problem for me, and I'd think for Sonos also.
Userlevel 2
+1
“If a customer chooses not to acknowledge the privacy statement, the customer will not be able to update the software on their Sonos system, and over time the functionality of the product will decrease,” a company spokesperson told ZDNet. “The customer can choose to acknowledge the policy, or can accept that over time their product may cease to function.”
I am surprised more people aren’t outraged at this. Many people have purchased Sonos components for the capabilities on the box. We don’t care about voice control or really any of Sonos’ growth strategy.
When I purchased and set it up, I agreed to the policies. If I didn’t want to, I could put them back in the box and returned them. Their lies the issue, because now I need to accept a policy that is substantively different. Importance, or specifically if the revised terms are a “big deal” or much different is irrelevant, they are changing the rules and I no longer have the choice to put them back in the box and get my money back.
And by the way, if it wasn’t such a big deal, they wouldn’t make everyone sign it and require regular updates because “over time” the components “may cease to function”. I suspect (this is pure conjecture), that these terms are somehow mandated/related to their partnerships with firms like Amazon. I can't imagine this is a debate any company wants to have (look at Plex and their privacy policy backlash...)
I’ve contacted Sonos support, and I needed to go back and forth a few times because they were evasive and said things like "in my opinion you shouldn't...." and "it's essentially the same policy...". Which was not my concern. I finally did verify that the components regularly need an active connection to the internet, and the policies must to be accepted for the components to continue to function. For anyone going to buy some Sonos today, all of that is fine, if you don’t like these policies, don’t buy it. Those of us who have already purchased components have no such option.
Much of this has been said before. My reason for posting, was my surprise that people aren't more outraged. It takes much less in the internet troll age to get people all fired up.
I am surprised more people aren’t outraged at this. Many people have purchased Sonos components for the capabilities on the box. We don’t care about voice control or really any of Sonos’ growth strategy.
When I purchased and set it up, I agreed to the policies. If I didn’t want to, I could put them back in the box and returned them. Their lies the issue, because now I need to accept a policy that is substantively different. Importance, or specifically if the revised terms are a “big deal” or much different is irrelevant, they are changing the rules and I no longer have the choice to put them back in the box and get my money back.
And by the way, if it wasn’t such a big deal, they wouldn’t make everyone sign it and require regular updates because “over time” the components “may cease to function”. I suspect (this is pure conjecture), that these terms are somehow mandated/related to their partnerships with firms like Amazon. I can't imagine this is a debate any company wants to have (look at Plex and their privacy policy backlash...)
I’ve contacted Sonos support, and I needed to go back and forth a few times because they were evasive and said things like "in my opinion you shouldn't...." and "it's essentially the same policy...". Which was not my concern. I finally did verify that the components regularly need an active connection to the internet, and the policies must to be accepted for the components to continue to function. For anyone going to buy some Sonos today, all of that is fine, if you don’t like these policies, don’t buy it. Those of us who have already purchased components have no such option.
Much of this has been said before. My reason for posting, was my surprise that people aren't more outraged. It takes much less in the internet troll age to get people all fired up.
I meant "third graders". Good thing I wasn't criticizing their spelling. 😳
Ah, I'd forgotten about the Play:5 orientation doohickey, good point. It does recognize which way it is tilted and modifies the output accordingly. Thanks for the reminder.
Not to mention almost being unreadable. Next week there will be millions of third greaders writing "What I Did Over the Summer" essays using better grammar skills than that article.
Except for components (Connect & Connect:AMP) and the Boost, all Sonos products come with a built-in orientation sensor.
Edit: just checked my zone players again. Pardon me, it's just the Play:5 which has an orientation sensor activated, though the support menu of each Play: speaker contains a section for said 'gravity sensor', even if not applicable. I suppose this is due to os programming.
Yes, in that regard, they are referring to how the product is physically situated. The Play 5 also offers multiple orientations.
I'm curious about only the "Product Orientation" aspect of all that. Everything else makes perfect sense to me, especially as the collection of that data allows their support groups to help people here on these boards and elsewhere. Is the Product Orientation just a bit about how the Playbar is situated? It's the only device I can think of that would have something like that available. I'm pretty sure there's no way for Sonos to know that my Play:1s in my kitchen are mounted upside down....oops, I just told them. Dammit! 🙂
However, I do thinks it's worth mentioning that it makes sense to me that device data and such is necessary information to gather in order for voice activation to work. Alexa cannot tell your speaker to do something if it doesn't know it's there and what it's called.
Helpful point. There's nothing being collected that strikes me as outside the reasonable details necessary to make Sonos (and potential voice activation) function. I'm open to someone showing me what I've missed though.
I think it's also rather disingenuous for these articles to stop at saying you cannot opt out of the policy. That is true, but doesn't give the accurate picture.
Disingenuous is the most generous way to put it. Some of the stories are peddling outright falsehoods while others seem to omit much relevant detail.
Take ZDNet for example. Their parent company, CBS Interactive, collects far more personal information than Sonos, but that didn't work its way into their clickbait article. Sure, you have the option to opt out of some, but it's an extensive monitoring program. For what it's worth, their "policy change notification" is identical.
I'm not concerned, so I can't answer Skelton's question.
However, I do thinks it's worth mentioning that it makes sense to me that device data and such is necessary information to gather in order for voice activation to work. Alexa cannot tell your speaker to do something if it doesn't know it's there and what it's called. I am sure Amazon and other's have similar policies. Amazon may not need to know wifi related data, but it also isn't concerned with synchronization and such.
I think it's also rather disingenuous for these articles to stop at saying you cannot opt out of the policy. That is true, but doesn't give the accurate picture. The policy INCLUDES the ability to opt out of data collection. So yes, you have to accept the policy to use the latest version of the product, but you do not have to send Sonos all your data.
To be fair, I'm confused about what data is required and what's optional. That's not Sonos fault, there's a lot of misinformation going around. I would try and clear it up, but I'm just not concerned.
However, I do thinks it's worth mentioning that it makes sense to me that device data and such is necessary information to gather in order for voice activation to work. Alexa cannot tell your speaker to do something if it doesn't know it's there and what it's called. I am sure Amazon and other's have similar policies. Amazon may not need to know wifi related data, but it also isn't concerned with synchronization and such.
I think it's also rather disingenuous for these articles to stop at saying you cannot opt out of the policy. That is true, but doesn't give the accurate picture. The policy INCLUDES the ability to opt out of data collection. So yes, you have to accept the policy to use the latest version of the product, but you do not have to send Sonos all your data.
To be fair, I'm confused about what data is required and what's optional. That's not Sonos fault, there's a lot of misinformation going around. I would try and clear it up, but I'm just not concerned.
That "functional data" includes email addresses, IP addresses, and account login information -- as well as device data, information about Wi-Fi antennas and other hardware information, room names, and error data.
First, everyone can read the Privacy Policy for themselves. You don't need it to be parsed for you because it's actually quite straightforward language. Here's the link to the US page:
http://www.sonos.com/en-us/legal/privacy
Now let's get into the question and potentially the misunderstanding being driven by these articles. Sonos is going to collect all of this information:
We collect:
Registration data. This data includes your email address, location, language preference, Product serial number, IP address, and Sonos account login information (as described above).
System data. This data includes things like Product type, controller device type, operating system of controller, software version information, content source (audio line in), signal input (for example, whether your TV outputs a specific audio signal such as Dolby to your Sonos system), information about wifi antennas, audio settings (such as equalization or stereo pair), Product orientation, room names you have assigned to your Sonos Product, whether your product has been tuned using Sonos Trueplay technology, and error information.
Now, I'm betting that most of you aren't alarmed by that list, but let's briefly touch on the things you might have questioned.
Email address is part and parcel of the rest of your registration. The location and IP address allow Sonos to ensure compliance with regional authorities, and to make sure you're who you say you are.
The rest of it isn't actually in any way identifying.
So, I'll ask the same question I've brought up in the other thread. What exactly in this language is concerning? I've not come across anything I thought was disconcerting, nor have I found anything to be ambiguous or unusual.
Any truth in the bold portion gleaned from another site? The other information is fine, but is identifying information being brought to mother ship?
That "functional data" includes email addresses, IP addresses, and account login information -- as well as device data, information about Wi-Fi antennas and other hardware information, room names, and error data.
That "functional data" includes email addresses, IP addresses, and account login information -- as well as device data, information about Wi-Fi antennas and other hardware information, room names, and error data.
Well, now you have: https://www.extremetech.com/electronics/254561-sonos-accept-new-privacy-policy-well-brick-device
That borg reference wasn't meant to be taken too seriously.
I shall add irony tags for the humourly impaired in future posts. 😉
I shall add irony tags for the humourly impaired in future posts. 😉
Have you or beynym read the ACTUAL statement yet? Not the device will "brick" in the case, the RESPECTIVE SERVICE will instead:
Direct Control or Voice Control Functionality
Sonos will share a subset of this data with partners that you have specifically authorized to receive such data in order to ensure that the voice or direct control functionality is working properly. If you wish for us to stop collection of this information or sharing it with the parties you have authorized, simply disable the feature (for example disable voice control) or unlink the feature (for example unlink your home automation remote) from your Sonos Products. Conversely, voice control functionality will not work unless you authorize us to collect and process the data as outlined in this section.
Well, now you have: https://www.extremetech.com/electronics/254561-sonos-accept-new-privacy-policy-well-brick-device
[i] “f a customer chooses not to acknowledge the privacy statement, the customer will not be able to update the software on their Sonos system, and over time the functionality of the product will decrease,” a company spokesperson told ZDNet. “The customer can choose to acknowledge the policy, or can accept that over time their product may cease to function.”
Resistance is futile.:8
Well, now you have: https://www.extremetech.com/electronics/254561-sonos-accept-new-privacy-policy-well-brick-device
Interestingly, there's a banner on their main web page.....except hidden underneath the banner for a free delivery offer.
If you click on the banner for the free delivery, you're taken to a webpage that has the privacy banner on it. And, if you click on that, it takes you to http://www.sonos.com/en-us/legal/privacy
Just to mention, this link to the privacy legal notice is as the bottom of every web page on sonos.com (scroll down on this page!)
If you click on the banner for the free delivery, you're taken to a webpage that has the privacy banner on it. And, if you click on that, it takes you to http://www.sonos.com/en-us/legal/privacy
Just to mention, this link to the privacy legal notice is as the bottom of every web page on sonos.com (scroll down on this page!)
So, when I went to get the update it referred me to this page: http://www.sonos.com/en-us/software/release/7-4 where I could read the full release notes. The release notes are there; but the new privacy policy is not. Where is the policy so I can read it before accepting it?
I have just updated to 7.4 and clicked to accept the new policy with as little thought as I do to all the endless Terms and Condition to which too I do the "I agree", for all the apps/software that I buy/license. I can't be bothered to read or lose sleep over these things - I have realised that if I truly did, I would have to go offline from every grid and Wifi network and live in splendid isolation, with or without the tinfoil hat, as some may want to. As for the rest of us, the privacy concern horse has bolted a long time ago.
I just don't want voice to allow real time eavesdropping on what is being spoken in the home, and I am sure there are ways to ensure that.
I just don't want voice to allow real time eavesdropping on what is being spoken in the home, and I am sure there are ways to ensure that.
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