Sonos don’t "really" do 5.1


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Pointless discussion. Buy what you like.
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The actual S1 thingy
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1314727/000119312518213468/d403417ds1.htm#toc403417_6
Very interesting, Paul, the opening of the kimono for the first time. Did you perhaps intend to post this link in another thread?
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I just copied it from within this thread:-
https://en.community.sonos.com/music-culture-the-industry-228997/sonos-ipo-6805420/index2.html#post16253284
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djsgrant wrote:


I am not the ombudsman of anything but I am perfectly entitled to ask a question, start a discussion or anything else without being trolled by someone who obviously regards himself as the ombudsman of everything.



His comments on your ombudsman like behavior were never about asking questions or starting discussions, but about trying to dictate rules for participation in the thread. I don't see how there could be much confusion about that.

djsgrant wrote:


You obviously know all the answers so I am not clear why you are even looking at this Forum.



The vast majority of jgatie's posts on this forum are to help people troubleshoot issues and such. That seems to be his motivating factor for looking at this forum.

djsgrant wrote:


You are a very unpleasant person, give everyone a break and just leave.



Why 'everyone'? No one else seems to have an issue with him on this thread.
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Why jgatie you have excelled yourself sir , other forums are nowhere near this fun ;););)
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Hi folks,

I wanted to jump in here and remind everyone to keep things on topic. It's okay to debate the features of the Sonos home theater system, but not okay to make the discussion about the number of posts our commenters have. Please refer to our community guidelines if you're not sure. As always, feel free to reach out to any Sonos employee through direct messages if you have any concerns.
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...removed...not on topic. :D
Just to break down a few more of the bombs thrown in this thread:

"They are late to the market with Alexa, Siri etc"

They were the first 3rd party multi-room speaker to use Alexa, and the first to use Airplay 2 (which can be activated by Siri).

"no HDMI"

The Beam not only has HDMI, it has HDMI-ARC and CEC.
Related and happy to split this off but does Sonos’ recent release of its Amp with HDMI ARC and a sub jack change this discussion at all? Obviously you’re buying or using additional speakers at that point but does it change things in terms of Sonos’ ability to deliver 5.1? I wasn’t clear on where the other 3 come from in that setup.

I just purchased one mostly to replace an old Receiver but got curious about things like 5.1 and found this thread.

I’m not super familiar with the underlying technology or audio formats so forgive me if this question is misguided.

Thanks!
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I missed this thread the first time round.

I am considering a Sonos 5.1 system for my Living Room. It will take me a while to get there so any other revelations from me won't be imminent, but I have two fundamental thought directions for arriving at the conclusion that a Sonos system for the Living Room will be my preferred solution.

1. I already have a home theatre system in my Study. I have a Kef 5.1 speakers system being fed by a powerful, if a little dated, receiver. The receiver has plenty of connections for my blu-ray, PS4, PC, TV etc. It also has a tape loop so I have a Connect attached to it. Therefore my study is a Sonos zone, with a line in that can stream all of the inputs I mentioned above. The receiver can decode plenty of different formats and has plenty of setup options to tune the sound if I need to. The TV is in the middle of the wall with the 5 channels pretty well optimised from a position point of view. Therefore, if I need to watch something specific in a home theatre envioronment, I already have the ability.
2. My living room is not a home theatre room. The TV is in the corner and my wife wants aesthetics and convenience of layout to be the foremost considerations. Most TV watched in this room is just TV, not blockbuster action movies. Having the TV in the corner means a soundbar is a sensible option as speaker placement for stereo seperation is not really achievable. Through these forums I am aware of the DTS issues etc but on the whole this is not going to be an issue. I already have two play 1s in the living room, so the surrounds are effectively already in the right room.

In summary? I would tend to agree with the OP that a Sonos theatre system is not perfect. To be frank, I'm not sure any system is. But whilst I would agree that if you want versatile home theatre then don't buy Sonos, I don't currently agree that Sonos 5.1 is not worth considering. I'd also suggest to the OP that the £500 saving from not having a Sonos 5.1 system would be well spent on buying a Connect - that way you get the best from everything - versatile inputs for your home theatre and more options on inputs for your Sonos listening around the home.
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Boo Radley wrote:

Related and happy to split this off but does Sonos’ recent release of its Amp with HDMI ARC and a sub jack change this discussion at all? Obviously you’re buying or using additional speakers at that point but does it change things in terms of Sonos’ ability to deliver 5.1? I wasn’t clear on where the other 3 come from in that setup.



I'd say that is not the best thread on the subject by a long shot. There is some true statements made regarding what Sonos does with home theatre, but a lot of opinions and garbabe as well.

Regarding the Amp though, it doesn't really change the 'maximum' home theatre setup you can achieve in terms of what audio formats are supported, it just changes how you arrange different products and speakers to get there...if that makes sense. The HDMI ARC connection on the Beam and the Sonos Amp is an improvement over the optical connection in terms of CEC controls and allowing the TV to send the best audio format to be sent to Sonos. So if the video source has dolby digital 5.1 for example, the TV will pass the audio in that format. If the source is DD+ or Dolby Atmos, the TV will pass dolby digital 5.1 to Sonos. If the source is stereo PCM, Sonos will get stereo. If the source is DTS, some TVs (few) could transcode the signal to DD 5.1, but I doubt it. (There are some game consoles, blue ray players, cable boxes etc that will transcode).. So essentially, Sonos is still DD 5.1 as a result, but the posslbie sources is a bit broader.

As a general rule, most of what you would stream is going to be stereo or one of the dolby formats. Blu-ray is likely going to be in DTS formats. So if you get a blu ray player that can covert DTS to dolby, you're covered for most everything. I use an xbox one for this.

Regarding your 'other 3' comment, the Amp itself will produce stereo left and right and phantom center channel. That gives you '3' (you get the same if use a Beam/Playbar/Playbase). You can attach or sub, or wireless connect a Sonos Sub for the '.1'. So the most you can get with just the Sonos Amp and your other speakers is 3.1. To add the rear surrounds to get the remaining 2, you can use a pair of Sonos speakers, or bond a second Amp to drive your own speakers for surround.

There are also audio formats that allow for a greater number of speakers than 5 plus a sub. 7.1, 9.1, 9.2.2, etc. Sonos does not go beyond 5.1.
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djsgrant wrote:

Before you buy any SONOS equipment to achieve a 5.1 setup please consider this:
blah, blah, blah...



It is odd that you think people here are not aware that AV receivers and all the associated cables etc exist. Alot of people here have had that mess and know the pros and cons. Even odder you felt it necessary to post this.
Thanks Captain Obvious.
melvimbe wrote:



I'd say that is not the best thread on the subject by a long shot. There is some true statements made regarding what Sonos does with home theatre, but a lot of opinions and garbabe as well.



Yea, i gathered that after reading through it a bit.

Regarding the Amp though, it doesn't really change the 'maximum' home theatre setup you can achieve in terms of what audio formats are supported, it just changes how you arrange different products and speakers to get there...if that makes sense. The HDMI ARC connection on the Beam and the Sonos Amp is an improvement over the optical connection in terms of CEC controls and allowing the TV to send the best audio format to be sent to Sonos.



I see. So better than just an optical connection.

So if the video source has dolby digital 5.1 for example, the TV will pass the audio in that format. If the source is DD+ or Dolby Atmos, the TV will pass dolby digital 5.1 to Sonos. If the source is stereo PCM, Sonos will get stereo. If the source is DTS, some TVs (few) could transcode the signal to DD 5.1, but I doubt it. (There are some game consoles, blue ray players, cable boxes etc that will transcode).. So essentially, Sonos is still DD 5.1 as a result, but the posslbie sources is a bit broader.

As a general rule, most of what you would stream is going to be stereo or one of the dolby formats. Blu-ray is likely going to be in DTS formats. So if you get a blu ray player that can covert DTS to dolby, you're covered for most everything. I use an xbox one for this.



I think I'm following that. I have a PS3 for blu-ray. Would assume it delivers audio similar to Xbox one?

Regarding your 'other 3' comment, the Amp itself will produce stereo left and right and phantom center channel. That gives you '3' (you get the same if use a Beam/Playbar/Playbase).



Ah ok. Is that something has to be enabled or does SOnos just do that on its own with any 5.1 signal?

You can attach or sub, or wireless connect a Sonos Sub for the '.1'. So the most you can get with just the Sonos Amp and your other speakers is 3.1. To add the rear surrounds to get the remaining 2, you can use a pair of Sonos speakers, or bond a second Amp to drive your own speakers for surround.



I see. I was leaning towards the latter. Would a pair of Sonos Play:1s handle that? Does Sonos actually do 5.1 at that point or is it more of an approximation?

There are also audio formats that allow for a greater number of speakers than 5 plus a sub. 7.1, 9.1, 9.2.2, etc. Sonos does not go beyond 5.1.



Right, that makes sense. Thanks!
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Boo Radley wrote:



I think I'm following that. I have a PS3 for blu-ray. Would assume it delivers audio similar to Xbox one?



I can't say. Check the audio setting for your PS3 and see if output in dolby digital is an option.

Boo Radley wrote:


Ah ok. Is that something has to be enabled or does SOnos just do that on its own with any 5.1 signal?



The phantom channel speaker is the standard, and as it understand it, can't be turned off. I haven't had a chance to set mine up yet, but this is what I was told when it was introduced on this forum (I asked)

Boo Radley wrote:


I see. I was leaning towards the latter. Would a pair of Sonos Play:1s handle that? Does Sonos actually do 5.1 at that point or is it more of an approximation?



The play:1s are excellent for surround speakers. It's technically 4.1, because of the phantom center channel, but nothing of the channels are simulated (programmatically generated) when you receive dolby digital, of that's what you mean by an approximation.
melvimbe wrote:


The play:1s are excellent for surround speakers. It's technically 4.1, because of the phantom center channel, but nothing of the channels are simulated (programmatically generated) when you receive dolby digital, of that's what you mean by an approximation.



I see. I just noticed in the Room Settings that you can specifically add rear speaker as opposed to just additional speakers in a group. Thanks for the help! It doesn't sound like this settles this thread or anything but I'm excited to try out this configuration with the new Amp.

One more question here: is it possible to add a Playbar for the front-center channel explicitly? I guess at that point, you would want to turn off the phantom channel on the Amp if such a thing is possible.
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jgatie wrote:

Just to break down a few more of the bombs thrown in this thread:

"They are late to the market with Alexa, Siri etc"

They were the first 3rd party multi-room speaker to use Alexa, and the first to use Airplay 2 (which can be activated by Siri).

"no HDMI"

The Beam not only has HDMI, it has HDMI-ARC and CEC.



When I started this thread the Beam hadn’t been announced so there was no HDMI.
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djsgrant wrote:


When I started this thread the Beam hadn’t been announced so there was no HDMI.



Yes it was. The thread was started 4 months ago, probably early August. The Beam started selling in late June.

The Beam was mentioned in the 2nd post of this thread. You referred to the Beam yourself in your 3rd post in this thread, also dated 4 months ago. The post you're currently replying to is also 4 months ago.

I agree with the general sentiment though. This thread is old and really shouldn't be considered to be current information anymore.
djsgrant wrote:



When I started this thread the Beam hadn’t been announced so there was no HDMI.



First post in this thread - 4 months ago, at max that means August 2018,

Beam released - June 6th, 2018.

Care to try again?

How about your claim "They are late to the market with Alexa, Siri etc"? When they are the very first to the market, exactly how late is that?
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ERooij wrote:

Pointless discussion. Buy what you like.



So you joined it why???
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jgatie wrote:

djsgrant wrote:



When I started this thread the Beam hadn’t been announced so there was no HDMI.



First post in this thread - 4 months ago, at max that means August 2018,

Beam released - June 6th, 2018.

Care to try again?

How about your claim "They are late to the market with Alexa, Siri etc"? When they are the very first to the market, exactly how late is that?



Wow, pedant city!!! My apologies I got my months mixed up, Makes no blooming difference, the HDMI that came out of the back of the Beam was as much use as a one legged man at a backside kicking contest. The entire discussion was build around the Base and Bar as part of 5.1. Not many people were using the Beam for that at the time. You will no doubt provide a figure?

As for late to the party with Alexa and Siri (not that I remember mentioning SIRI though I’m sure you will correct me if I am wrong) that is a matter of fact. I’ve had my SONOS kit for years and it still doesn’t have google home compatibility without a workaround with 3rd party apps and it was an age before it was Alexa ready.

Typical SONOS owners, have to keep justifying their purchases and never acknowledging any weaknesses in the product. How will that ever see things improved?

For the rest of the bandwagon jumpers on this series of comments may I politely suggest you read the first question posed back at the beginning of August which was only asking what fellow SONOS owners thought of SONOS’s 5.1 claims which were grossly over exaggerated and their poor attitude to their customer base.
I think we all know who the one legged man at the backside kicking contest is in this thread. :D
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jgatie wrote:

I think we all know who the one legged man at the backside kicking contest is in this thread. :D



Nice of you to take responsibility...
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jgatie wrote:

djsgrant wrote:



When I started this thread the Beam hadn’t been announced so there was no HDMI.



First post in this thread - 4 months ago, at max that means August 2018,

Beam released - June 6th, 2018.

Care to try again?

How about your claim "They are late to the market with Alexa, Siri etc"? When they are the very first to the market, exactly how late is that?



PS If you live in some parts of the world like Denmark there still isn’t Alexa integration never mind google play so yes, late to the market.

Look all I am saying is that SONOS has issues. They are fantastic for music but they have not nailed the TV stuff and there is no reason for that other than shear bloody mindedness from SONOS i.e. refusing point blank to adopt fully functioning HDMI. You can get that in a £80 soundbar from Currys. I don’t want wires all over my living room either but paying £200 to have them concealed and having the flexibility of an AV Amp with all the codecs etc I want is a better and much cheaper alternative. It also delivers better TV sound and proper 5.1. Not for everyone I know, you might want to move house etc although I would argue it adds value.

Sonos TV Speakers are for rich people for use in kitchens, bedrooms and play rooms and their products are great for that. To use it as a primary “proper” 5.1 system is just not possible. Let’s not even go into 7.1 or Atmos etc etc.

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