We've determined there to be an issue with Dolby Digital playback devices (including the Sonos PLAYBAR) and Samsung televisions in the JS and JU series. An example of a TV model number of this line would be the Samsung UN55JS8500. The optical output from these televisions doesn't pass a consistent signal to devices wired in through that connection. This could present when you're watching any Dolby Digital content through the TV's optical connection. As a workaround if you're using one of these TVs, you can set the output of the TV to PCM (Stereo). There isn't any issue currently with that TV streaming stereo content to the PLAYBAR through the optical. Otherwise, you can look into using a different device. Some suggestions for setups and community recommended devices can be found here on our megathread. We are working with Samsung on this issue, but there isn't currently a timeframe for a resolution. We'll update you as soon as there are any further details. Because of the nature of this issue, we've added these televisions to our PLAYBAR Compatibility page which can be found here.

Hi everyone,We've been testing the firmware of these TVs with some of you and have verified that the Dolby handling issues of the past with these TVs have come back as of software version 1510. We're going to work with Samsung to see about sorting out the issue, but we've been able to replicate the cut out issues on both Sonos hardware and other soundbars too. The PLAYBAR has gotten better at handling poor audio signals in recent updates, so this issue is less noticeable than before, but it's happening.You can verify the installed firmware version by pressing the MENU/123 button on the remote, then selecting Menu, Support, and then highlight Software Update. For workarounds, while they sort out the firmware, you can either bypass the audio coming from those JS/JU model TVs by plugging your Sonos directly into the source, or an HDMI switcher, or go into the TV settings and set the audio format to PCM instead of Dolby Digital.I'll let you know here when we've gotten confirmation that the software has been updated.

Samsung JS/JU Model TVs Audio Issue with PLAYBAR

D

Update: new firmware still drops out.

Ugh.

L

Userlevel 1

Update: new firmware still drops out.

L

Userlevel 1

New experiment. Samsung updated to firmware 1500. Audio delay changed from 50 to zero (well, I'm still debating 0 or 10).

How many of you used the TV's audio sync delay and got dropouts? Vs using the Sonos sync delay? I have always had the TV do the work.

D

Yet another reason that Sonos' refusal to provide HDMI is baffling. It's not because optical is simpler and they should stop with that excuse. I think they just don't want to spend the $$ on R&D.

L

Userlevel 1

Good point. They've already admitted there's an issue, both vendors apparently agree there's an issue, and they thought they had a solve.... They unfortunately did not.

It's a shame my $2000 Samsung will be crippled with Sonos. It's a shame my $1400 Playbar + Sub will be crippled with Samsung. I spent **way too much money** for this embarrassing problem.

Userlevel 4

inopinatus
Prominent Collaborator I
106 replies
6 years ago
21 May 2017

I wouldn't think so. I'd imagine both companies are aware of the issue, and are working to resolve it. It may be all at one end, or the other, or somewhere in between. But most of these companies, Sonos included, don't tell the customers what they're working on, so as not to set unreasonable expectations.

In my years of live support on games, I've seen several cases of "yes, we've fixed that bug" fall apart at the last second with an unexpected consequence, and get pulled from a software release. If I'd promised the fix to our customers, I'd have been roasted, and they'd have been quite unhappy. Better to keep quiet, and then announce it with the release of the software. Shoot, there were many bugs we never let people know about, even when we fixed them. It's not about crowing the accomplishment of the team, it's about getting the experience correct. None of my programmers were happy when a bug was found. And they would do everything possible to figure out the fix.

You are quite right, but there's a point - especially when it's an issue with connectivity to something made by another firm - when engineers get grumpy and start just blaming the other party and give up.

If, for example, the Sonos half of the problem was in their digital input hardware, then there's perhaps no immediately obvious firmware fix. That doesn't mean it's impossible, only unimaginative fools use the word "impossible", but "harder than I have time to fix" and "requires more ingenuity than I possess" are phrases I've used myself, though, in similar situations.

Note two things:
1. That response post, at the top of the thread, makes it clear that Sonos think this is something Samsung are fixing, and
2. They've left it up long past the time when it's become very obvious to the many customers of both that there's no fix in place.

So I personally think they've given up even managing this issue at their end; they're certainly not following the announcement principles you just described.

Issue persists with latest revision of JS/KS-9000 software, I had dropouts last night.

I wouldn't think so. I'd imagine both companies are aware of the issue, and are working to resolve it. It may be all at one end, or the other, or somewhere in between. But most of these companies, Sonos included, don't tell the customers what they're working on, so as not to set unreasonable expectations.

In my years of live support on games, I've seen several cases of "yes, we've fixed that bug" fall apart at the last second with an unexpected consequence, and get pulled from a software release. If I'd promised the fix to our customers, I'd have been roasted, and they'd have been quite unhappy. Better to keep quiet, and then announce it with the release of the software. Shoot, there were many bugs we never let people know about, even when we fixed them. It's not about crowing the accomplishment of the team, it's about getting the experience correct. None of my programmers were happy when a bug was found. And they would do everything possible to figure out the fix.

L

Userlevel 1

So at this point, should we consider this glitch unsolvable?

L

Userlevel 1

That's what my layman understanding is. It's 100% digital. It's not like a older movie print where the Dolby Digital was written to piece of magnetic tape on the 35mm print.

Certainly possible. But then the question becomes why is the TV sending so much garbage? it's supposed to be a digital connection, the clarity of the data should be there. It's either a zero or a one, right? 🙂

L

Userlevel 1

I would think, simply, it's a matter of more robust error correction or tolerance. Sonos doesn't have aggressive enough error correction.

I recall reading a thread about Dolby error correction in theaters and how the decoding box would display how much noise and garble the signal incoming had, and how much error correction it was applying to interpolate bad packets.

Also, since other TV's don't have this issue, there must be extra garbage in the Samsung ouput. So it's not entirely Sonos' fault...... but if a Vizio can work on a Samsung without drops..... then maybe Sonos needs to spend some more R&D time on their gear.

R

The problem HAS been isolated. Samsung optical output sometimes sends garbage packets. The Sonos cannot rectify them and drops out.

if that is true then how is it non-Sonos devices don't have this issue when connected by optical to a Samsung TV?
I've had a high end Yamaha Soundbar and now Kef LS 50 wireless speakers connected to the optical on my JS9000 and neither of these have this issue. If Samsung had this issue with all other devices it would be very widely known.
That's why I wonder if the Playbase will have this issue or if Sonos has a fix in that devices optical connection.

I've thought about that as well - I own an JS8500 and recently changed from an HDMI 5.1 HT-in-a-box system to the Q-Acoustics M4 soundbar (which uses optical) and never once experienced audio drops with the M4 (or the HTB for that matter). My understanding it becomes an issue only on surround systems connected via optical. So clearly it seems that JS owners' last hope is that Sonos finally decides to integrate HDMI in their future products.

DarwinOSX,

If I were to guess, I'd suggest it's the implementation of the parser for the data coming in through the optical connection. In my mind, some companies add their own "features" so that they can send special commands to their own sound bars, and do "special" things. Completely unsubstantiated thought, though. But that would cause an issue to the implementation in other sound bars, when it receives a data command it doesn't comprehend, since it was built to the Dolby Digital specs, and doesn't know how to process "extra" data.

I'd suggest that some sound bars are more tolerant to this kind of 'extra' data than Sonos might be. And if I'm correct, Sonos may want to add some additional tolerance in their software decoder.

But as I say, I'm just guessing at this. I can't come up with any other rational explanation as to why certain soundbars don't have this problem, and Sonos does, with specific TV types. All I know is that with 2 Sony TVs, and 2 Vizio TVs, I've not had a single problem of this type.

And I suspect there's some communication between Sonos and Samsung, for instance, that they're unwilling to share publicly, trying to track down the issue. I'm sure neither side is willing to accept blame in the eyes of the public, but I do find it interesting that to this point, most of the "fixes" have come as firmware updates to the Samsung line of TVs. But then again, Sonos could have easily hidden their own updates to the code in their more frequent software updates, so who knows?

D

The problem HAS been isolated. Samsung optical output sometimes sends garbage packets. The Sonos cannot rectify them and drops out.

if that is true then how is it non-Sonos devices don't have this issue when connected by optical to a Samsung TV?
I've had a high end Yamaha Soundbar and now Kef LS 50 wireless speakers connected to the optical on my JS9000 and neither of these have this issue. If Samsung had this issue with all other devices it would be very widely known.
That's why I wonder if the Playbase will have this issue or if Sonos has a fix in that devices optical connection.

R

Hello Ryan,

Now that PLAYBASE has been officially announced - can you confirm whether audio drops are to be expected with JS/JU TV models?

I created a thread specifically on that topic: https://en.community.sonos.com/home-theater-228993/samsung-jsju-model-tvs-with-playbase-6765842

I'm a UN55JS8500 owner and I'm very eager to join the Sonos users community.

Thank you.

This has gotten much worse for me in the last 6 weeks or so.

TV Model: Samsung UN55JU7100
TV Software: 1467
Sonos: 7.1 (Build 341637101)
Diagnostics: 7160631

I haven't heard any big updates on this one lately but if you haven't yet, it'd be great to take a look at this live with one of our technicians. They'll be able to collect some details and if needed forward them on.

E

This has gotten much worse for me in the last 6 weeks or so.

TV Model: Samsung UN55JU7100
TV Software: 1467
Sonos: 7.1 (Build 341637101)
Diagnostics: 7160631

I haven't heard any big updates on this one lately but if you haven't yet, it'd be great to take a look at this live with one of our technicians. They'll be able to collect some details and if needed forward them on.

Ryan, thank you for the reply. Last night I had 4-5 drops during Homeland that were about 3 seconds long. Before, they were much shorter (around 1-2 seconds). In response, I made a change to my network configuration that I'm hoping may clear this issue up. I'm going to give it a few days and see if it improves. If it doesn't, I will contact a technician and see if we can troubleshoot.

Userlevel 7

+26

Ryan S
Author
Retired Sonos Staff
12372 replies
7 years ago
6 March 2017

This has gotten much worse for me in the last 6 weeks or so.

TV Model: Samsung UN55JU7100
TV Software: 1467
Sonos: 7.1 (Build 341637101)
Diagnostics: 7160631

I haven't heard any big updates on this one lately but if you haven't yet, it'd be great to take a look at this live with one of our technicians. They'll be able to collect some details and if needed forward them on.

L

Userlevel 1

I've given up, El Jefe. It's too bad I spent $2500 on this TV, I'd replace it with an LG OLED or something if I had my money back.

E

This has gotten much worse for me in the last 6 weeks or so.

TV Model: Samsung UN55JU7100
TV Software: 1467
Sonos: 7.1 (Build 341637101)
Diagnostics: 7160631

U

Here still no dropouts when ungrouped, dropouts when grouped with other speakers. Didn't see any updates though. Which version for TV and Playbar?

E

Any updates to this issue? I seem to have more frequent and longer drop-outs now with the latest Samsung firmware and updated Sonos software.

U

Very possible. Probably after a firmware update

Userlevel 4

inopinatus
Prominent Collaborator I
106 replies
7 years ago
9 February 2017

Not at all, just that the issue dissappeared for me after doing so and I wanted to share this here so that others with the same setup can test this and see if it solves their problem. I'm sure there are multiple root causes for the same issue, in my case the ungrouping solved it.

I'm predicting you'll be back in a few days/weeks to say "Oh actually it's happening again".

U

[quote=ReggieD]So are we concluding that everyone who ever reported this issue had their Playbar grouped to speakers outside of their HT setup?

[quote=uncledave][quote=ReggieD]

Not at all, just that the issue dissappeared for me after doing so and I wanted to share this here so that others with the same setup can test this and see if it solves their problem. I'm sure there are multiple root causes for the same issue, in my case the ungrouping solved it.

R

So are we concluding that everyone who ever reported this issue had their Playbar grouped to speakers outside of their HT setup?

[quote=uncledave]So basically, the solution is to "downgrade" from 5.x to 3.x?

No, what I mean is the ungrouping of other speakers in other rooms. Not the surround speakers!

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