LG C9 + Arc + UB820 / Multichannel PCM for DTS Blu-Ray discs



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@Hebassaurus Thanks for sharing your situation. The more we point out these issues, the better. Not sure we’ll get the fixes we want, but at least we’ll have workarounds. I suspect that LG is putting its development into the soundbars they make. I just added a C1 model to my lineup (attached to an Arc), and I see a number of new settings related to their products. (I have my Oppo 4k plugged into this, and happily DTS and Dolby Atmos all played fine with my settings.)

 

My experimentation (which I have not changed in months) was on a C9 model. I did not see the Dolby Vision issues you describe. So, could be a G1 issue or something else wrong in the pathway. Have you changed out all cables as a test? I used 8K cables to be sure there was enough bandwidth. 

 

Also, my Dolby Vision testing is probably limited. While I do have a number of UHD discs, my main disc viewing is older Criterion and Kino Lober released films - most with DTS tracks which caused me to find the issue with the Panasonic-LG-Arc set up.

 

Finally, definitely do not turn on PCM or have the LG modify the audio signal. That will for sure create issues with the Arc.

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Interesting, thanks all. I have read that the Sonos crew was potentially working on a fix to downmix the 7.1 to 5.1, so I’m hopeful something will come from that in the future, though it has no indicated timeline. I do hear you on the potential, future updates breaking things...it can happen in today’s world...especially with such young technology and all of the vendors not testing against one another’s equipment. The matrix of possibilities might be too large to tackle that.

 

Few things in a few attempts I made this today using the DR HDMI 4K device:

  1. Dolby Vision is staying active today sometimes, even when I re-sink. Good news, maybe...but a cautious good news as I believe it has to do with the order of powering on things (possibly even the DR HDMI 4K device). I got a message from the Panasonic mentioning the device it was connected to was not HDCP 2.2 compliant until going back to the Home screen on the Panasonic.
  2. For the 7.1 thing, I made a new custom bank that only has FC, FL, FR, RL, RR channels as available in the Speaker layout portion of the EDID stuff. It still outputs as 7.1. 
  3. When I switch to Auto (and PCM) instead of Pass Through on the LG, it outputs as Stereo PCM, so I stuck with Pass Through. I also tried combinations with the DTS settings on the Panasonic as Bitstream or PCM...seemed to make no difference, I still get 7.1 in Pass Through whether it’s in Bitstream or PCM.

 

I’ll find some time to play around again later, but my ideas are not many at the moment.

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@Hebassaurus  I believe there are issues with the way Sonos Arc handles lpcm 7.1. On top of that there may also be issues with LG TVs converting everything to 7.1 lpcm even if the input is 5.1 and set to pass through. At this point I’m fairly resigned to the fact that this will never be perfect, and if it ever is, it’ll only be one update away from breaking again. 

 

Yep, the 7.1 issue for everything , i’m pretty sure is LGs end, I have the LG CX and I have had enough responses from various forums to suggest its LG issue, but unfortunately LG are to lazy to acknowledge the problem and fix it.

If anyone from LG reads this, don’t expect me to buy another LG tv in the future, I’m going to be looking at other brands in the future, LG may be good at releasing firmware but actually fixing issues that are widely reported across AV forums, they never seem to be bothered about fixing.

 

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@Hebassaurus  I believe there are issues with the way Sonos Arc handles lpcm 7.1. On top of that there may also be issues with LG TVs converting everything to 7.1 lpcm even if the input is 5.1 and set to pass through. At this point I’m fairly resigned to the fact that this will never be perfect, and if it ever is, it’ll only be one update away from breaking again. 

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@Laird M Malamed Thank you for breaking your methodologies down with the DR HDMI 4K!

Thank you to everyone else who has contributed in this thread as well.

 

I bought a DR HDMI 4K for the same reason as you all. I was able to follow your path @Laird M Malamed and, indeed, did get it into Multichannel PCM 7.1 from a DTS-HD MA 5.1 track and a DTS:X track (The 7.1 output seems to be all it outputs, but not sure why just yet. My Nintendo Switch also outputs as 7.1 even though it’s only 5.1 capable). The center channel appears to be a bit quiet in comparison to the Dolby Digital 5.1 tracks on the same UHD disc and unsure why...will continue to dig into that.

 

My main issue is that, while I’m able to get Dolby Vision initially, it seems to switch off shortly after the disc starts playing, as the G1 settings won’t stay in DolbyVision Select mode. Have you seen anything like that? I intend to continue playing around with this as I’m dying to watch some of these movies with surround...but also in Dolby Vision.

 

My setup for reference:

LG G1 65”

Panasonic UB9000

Sonos Arc

Sonos Sub (Gen 3)

Sonos One x2 (rears)

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Hi All, anyone in here who got an hdfury arcana with the LG cx / ub820 / Sonos arc combo experiencing issues with cec/earc breaking when the arcana is plugged in after the latest LG update a few weeks ago? Whenever it is plugged in now the connection between the tv and the Sonos gets messed up, no cec volume control and no earc support. It’s infuriating!

I was looking into EDID emulators, and I was wondering if anybody had any experience with them.

 

I am curious about this too. Somebody over on AV forums just posted this:

 

 

“Download CRU : Custom Resolution Utility (CRU)
1.5.1 on top of OP

Extract and open CRU.exe

on the drop down list at the top, select the TV with soundbar plugged in (it should be marked as active)

on "extension block" slots there should be a CTA-861 - 3 detailed resolutions - 3 data blocks or something like that - select it and click edit

now select audio format and click edit

select LPCM > edit and check all sample rates and channels

click OK > OK > Ok

Reboot
Now PC show 5.1/7.1 chanels avaliable through HDMI and all is working great. I think it's EDID probblem with LG CX.”

So you can now get 5.1 and 7.1 through the pc or the Panasonic uhd player ? 

 

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I was looking into EDID emulators, and I was wondering if anybody had any experience with them.

 

I am curious about this too. Somebody over on AV forums just posted this:

 

 

“Download CRU : Custom Resolution Utility (CRU)
1.5.1 on top of OP

Extract and open CRU.exe

on the drop down list at the top, select the TV with soundbar plugged in (it should be marked as active)

on "extension block" slots there should be a CTA-861 - 3 detailed resolutions - 3 data blocks or something like that - select it and click edit

now select audio format and click edit

select LPCM > edit and check all sample rates and channels

click OK > OK > Ok

Reboot
Now PC show 5.1/7.1 chanels avaliable through HDMI and all is working great. I think it's EDID probblem with LG CX.”

Anyone in here owns the new Samsung QN90A tv and The panasonic ub820? Still having the same issues with getting PCM 2.0 instead of LPCM when connecting the player (with DTS set to PCM) and soundbar directly to the TV?

I was looking into EDID emulators, and I was wondering if anybody had any experience with them.

 

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I've considered it. I'd like to avoid cable clutter, I run a very minimal set up and absolutely hate the sight if wires. Plus for the money I'd rather put it towards a device I'd get more than a singular use out of like the Xbox. 

Ya I briefly had the Arcana and it caused CEC issues and sound issues with my Shield, which I may have been able to work out possibly but even more infuriating was how the ports were setup so it was messy af to cable up and hard to place somewhere good where you could see the LCD but not look like absolute crap.  Was such a waste of time/money, ended up refunding it but they had to take out shipping cost so lost like $50 something out of the whole ordeal but I’d rather not kept the thing.

Fake surround is OK, but it's not really the experience that I was expecting from this system. I'm just waiting to get my hands on a Xbox One X, and the Panasonic will go up for sale. It's a fine player but it doesn't work with my system.  And nobody seems to be listening at customer support, we haven't seen a firmware upgrade in 2 years, I don't suspect we'll ever see one.

 

 

Hmm i have a Xbox series X and UB820. I certainly wouldn’t be jumping ship to play my movies on the xbox. Have you looked at any of the comparison videos from the likes of John Archer? The UB820 is still one of the best 4K players on the market and there is a considerable difference in image quality over something like an xbox/PS5.

 

The XSX also can’t and unlikely will be able to play dolby vision from 4K disks for some reason. Which is strange considering that they are moving towards dolby vision being used in games.

 

Yeah I'm aware of the visual downgrade, but I'm willing to accept that for proper surround. I've got a pretty massive blu ray collection (nearly 1500 disc's) and I'd like to be able to take advantage of the surround track. I wasn't aware of the lack of dolby vision, but I've really only got a few 4k dolby vision disc's anyways.  The Xbox will certainly be a bandaid until something comes along that checks off all the buttons. Or Sonos starts to support DTS... Whatever comes first. 

But why can’t you just use the HDFury? That way you get the best of both worlds

I've considered it. I'd like to avoid cable clutter, I run a very minimal set up and absolutely hate the sight if wires. Plus for the money I'd rather put it towards a device I'd get more than a singular use out of like the Xbox. 

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Fake surround is OK, but it's not really the experience that I was expecting from this system. I'm just waiting to get my hands on a Xbox One X, and the Panasonic will go up for sale. It's a fine player but it doesn't work with my system.  And nobody seems to be listening at customer support, we haven't seen a firmware upgrade in 2 years, I don't suspect we'll ever see one.

 

 

Hmm i have a Xbox series X and UB820. I certainly wouldn’t be jumping ship to play my movies on the xbox. Have you looked at any of the comparison videos from the likes of John Archer? The UB820 is still one of the best 4K players on the market and there is a considerable difference in image quality over something like an xbox/PS5.

 

The XSX also can’t and unlikely will be able to play dolby vision from 4K disks for some reason. Which is strange considering that they are moving towards dolby vision being used in games.

 

Yeah I'm aware of the visual downgrade, but I'm willing to accept that for proper surround. I've got a pretty massive blu ray collection (nearly 1500 disc's) and I'd like to be able to take advantage of the surround track. I wasn't aware of the lack of dolby vision, but I've really only got a few 4k dolby vision disc's anyways.  The Xbox will certainly be a bandaid until something comes along that checks off all the buttons. Or Sonos starts to support DTS... Whatever comes first. 

But why can’t you just use the HDFury? That way you get the best of both worlds

Fake surround is OK, but it's not really the experience that I was expecting from this system. I'm just waiting to get my hands on a Xbox One X, and the Panasonic will go up for sale. It's a fine player but it doesn't work with my system.  And nobody seems to be listening at customer support, we haven't seen a firmware upgrade in 2 years, I don't suspect we'll ever see one.

 

 

Hmm i have a Xbox series X and UB820. I certainly wouldn’t be jumping ship to play my movies on the xbox. Have you looked at any of the comparison videos from the likes of John Archer? The UB820 is still one of the best 4K players on the market and there is a considerable difference in image quality over something like an xbox/PS5.

 

The XSX also can’t and unlikely will be able to play dolby vision from 4K disks for some reason. Which is strange considering that they are moving towards dolby vision being used in games.

 

Yeah I'm aware of the visual downgrade, but I'm willing to accept that for proper surround. I've got a pretty massive blu ray collection (nearly 1500 disc's) and I'd like to be able to take advantage of the surround track. I wasn't aware of the lack of dolby vision, but I've really only got a few 4k dolby vision disc's anyways.  The Xbox will certainly be a bandaid until something comes along that checks off all the buttons. Or Sonos starts to support DTS... Whatever comes first. 

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@zad

 

Have you set downmix to surround encoded on the Panasonic? Some time after the Arc was updated for better PCM support I put Divergent on and immediately noticed a vastly improved up mix with the DTS-X track with my Playbase. Not quite as good as the Atmos tracks on the sequels admittedly but very good. DTS-HD tracks needed a little bump in volume in the rear surrounds but still much improved. There must be some Pro Logic type of info the Panasonic is adding to the stereo output that Sonos wasn’t looking at previously. I’m not bothered by the lack of DTS support now and will be buying some more 4k release with DTS tracks that I put off buying. I was particularly pleased with 2001. The score sounded much better with the changes being mixed into the rear surrounds.

 

Ideally people would want to get LPCM rather than PCM for the best result but the TV is probably also a factor in that maybe?

Oh yes I've tried that, I've spent hours trying to find the magic configuration. The issue is an HDMI handshake issue between the Panasonic UB820 and the LGC9, the Panasonic literally won't pass the LPCM signal to the television. I've used other devices that can pass through LPCM / covert DTS to dolby on the fly (xbox) with no issue.

 

Fake surround is OK, but it's not really the experience that I was expecting from this system. I'm just waiting to get my hands on a Xbox One X, and the Panasonic will go up for sale. It's a fine player but it doesn't work with my system.  And nobody seems to be listening at customer support, we haven't seen a firmware upgrade in 2 years, I don't suspect we'll ever see one.

 

 

 

The thing is it’s not really fake surround its most likely using the technology Dolby used to put surround information in stereo soundtracks on 35mm film, back in the day, for those theatres that had their technology. Those that didn’t just got a plain stereo playback. The more I think about it the more likely I think it is that Sonos just wasn’t looking at the info in PCM sound that had it until after the Arc came out.

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Fake surround is OK, but it's not really the experience that I was expecting from this system. I'm just waiting to get my hands on a Xbox One X, and the Panasonic will go up for sale. It's a fine player but it doesn't work with my system.  And nobody seems to be listening at customer support, we haven't seen a firmware upgrade in 2 years, I don't suspect we'll ever see one.

 

 

Hmm i have a Xbox series X and UB820. I certainly wouldn’t be jumping ship to play my movies on the xbox. Have you looked at any of the comparison videos from the likes of John Archer? The UB820 is still one of the best 4K players on the market and there is a considerable difference in image quality over something like an xbox/PS5.

 

The XSX also can’t and unlikely will be able to play dolby vision from 4K disks for some reason. Which is strange considering that they are moving towards dolby vision being used in games.

 

@zad

 

Have you set downmix to surround encoded on the Panasonic? Some time after the Arc was updated for better PCM support I put Divergent on and immediately noticed a vastly improved up mix with the DTS-X track with my Playbase. Not quite as good as the Atmos tracks on the sequels admittedly but very good. DTS-HD tracks needed a little bump in volume in the rear surrounds but still much improved. There must be some Pro Logic type of info the Panasonic is adding to the stereo output that Sonos wasn’t looking at previously. I’m not bothered by the lack of DTS support now and will be buying some more 4k release with DTS tracks that I put off buying. I was particularly pleased with 2001. The score sounded much better with the changes being mixed into the rear surrounds.

 

Ideally people would want to get LPCM rather than PCM for the best result but the TV is probably also a factor in that maybe?

Oh yes I've tried that, I've spent hours trying to find the magic configuration. The issue is an HDMI handshake issue between the Panasonic UB820 and the LGC9, the Panasonic literally won't pass the LPCM signal to the television. I've used other devices that can pass through LPCM / covert DTS to dolby on the fly (xbox) with no issue.

 

Fake surround is OK, but it's not really the experience that I was expecting from this system. I'm just waiting to get my hands on a Xbox One X, and the Panasonic will go up for sale. It's a fine player but it doesn't work with my system.  And nobody seems to be listening at customer support, we haven't seen a firmware upgrade in 2 years, I don't suspect we'll ever see one.

 

 

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@zad 

 

Have you set downmix to surround encoded on the Panasonic? Some time after the Arc was updated for better PCM support I put Divergent on and immediately noticed a vastly improved up mix with the DTS-X track with my Playbase. Not quite as good as the Atmos tracks on the sequels admittedly but very good. DTS-HD tracks needed a little bump in volume in the rear surrounds but still much improved. There must be some Pro Logic type of info the Panasonic is adding to the stereo output that Sonos wasn’t looking at previously. I’m not bothered by the lack of DTS support now and will be buying some more 4k release with DTS tracks that I put off buying. I was particularly pleased with 2001. The score sounded much better with the changes being mixed into the rear surrounds.

 

Ideally people would want to get LPCM rather than PCM for the best result but the TV is probably also a factor in that maybe?

Question for the group.

I’ve followed the advice, set DTS to PCM within the UB820, plus set the downmixing to Surround, turned off Secondary audio etc. LG settings as standard.

The ‘Playback Info’ bar within the UB820 is showing DTS-HD MSTR, but within the Sonos app it’s showing as Stero PCM 2.0.

However, I am getting full surround sound across my rear SLs. With dialogue coming purely through the centre Arc. 

What do we think is happening here?

This is just a virtual surround, I had the exact same experience as you and documented it earlier in this thread. If your bluray has several audio tracks (like different languages) usually track 1 is English DTS - MA, followed by foreign language tracks in dolby digital 5.1.  Use the audio button on the remote to change the tracks on the fly and you'll very clearly hear the difference between a proper multi channel output and the virtual surround. I used the 4k of Once Upon A Time In Hollywood.

 

Additionally my LG C9 got the 5.00.30 update and I can confirm that it did not fix any of the hdmi handshake issues with the Panasonic UB820. I'm still getting 2.0 pcm instead of multichannel LPCM when outputing DTS. 

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I believe the Panasonic adds some surround info into the stereo PCM mixes and with the changes for the Arc PCM support they started using I think. Certainly my 4k blurays with DTS tracks seem to get a much better up mix than previously with my Playbase. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Pro_Logic

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@JamesU2021 That’s interesting. Do you mind posting a screenshot of the Playback Info screen and the title of the movie you are testing?

Question for the group.

I’ve followed the advice, set DTS to PCM within the UB820, plus set the downmixing to Surround, turned off Secondary audio etc. LG settings as standard.

The ‘Playback Info’ bar within the UB820 is showing DTS-HD MSTR, but within the Sonos app it’s showing as Stero PCM 2.0.

However, I am getting full surround sound across my rear SLs. With dialogue coming purely through the centre Arc. 

What do we think is happening here?

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@Surge My UB820 is connected from the HDMI audio/video out port to the HDFury Arcana and I get multichannel PCM audio playing out of the Arc.

 

I too am also getting 7.1 audio from the 820 through a DR 4K HDMI through my LG to my Sonos Arc. The only time I get 2.0 audio is when the source material is in 2.0 format.

 

After Panasonic asked for more info on my ticket, they have not further responded.

 

Hi I'm also getting 7.1 using the arcana. I've noticed today there has been an update on the c9. 5.00.30 not sure if it's anything to do with this though. 

 

Found this.

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/2019-c9%E2%80%93e9-owners-thread-no-price-talk.3057634/page-879#post-60623628

 

I’ve got a CX, not sure if there’s an update for me.

@Surge My UB820 is connected from the HDMI audio/video out port to the HDFury Arcana and I get multichannel PCM audio playing out of the Arc.

 

I too am also getting 7.1 audio from the 820 through a DR 4K HDMI through my LG to my Sonos Arc. The only time I get 2.0 audio is when the source material is in 2.0 format.

 

After Panasonic asked for more info on my ticket, they have not further responded.

 

Hi I'm also getting 7.1 using the arcana. I've noticed today there has been an update on the c9. 5.00.30 not sure if it's anything to do with this though. 

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@Surge My UB820 is connected from the HDMI audio/video out port to the HDFury Arcana and I get multichannel PCM audio playing out of the Arc.

 

I too am also getting 7.1 audio from the 820 through a DR 4K HDMI through my LG to my Sonos Arc. The only time I get 2.0 audio is when the source material is in 2.0 format.

 

After Panasonic asked for more info on my ticket, they have not further responded.

 

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