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LG C9 + Arc + UB820 / Multichannel PCM for DTS Blu-Ray discs

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G
Userlevel 7

@jkossis I tested a Dolby TrueHD 7.1.2 test tones video from my Dolby Atmos demo Blu-ray on my 5.1.2 Arc/Sub/Play:1s setup. The test tones for the left and right side surround channels played perfectly clear out of my Play:1 rear surround speakers indicating that the Arc will take a 7.1 track and mix the two side surround channels into the two rear surround channels. 

I plan on testing the same with a DTS demo disc next week.

"Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you." - Rashi
M

Perhaps the point has been made above but just to reiterate:


  1. Using HDFury to direct LPCM audio from a DTS 4k audio stream running in a blu-ray player into HDMI port direct of LG CX or bypassing LG CX to Sonos ARC directly if it is a DTS 7.1 audio stream turns into LPCM 7.1 (from Blu-ray player)
  2. This runs into the issue Sonos arc has which has still not been fixed of downsizing being wrong for LPCM 7.1 to surround 5.1 setup.

there is no issue for blu-ray disks supporting DTS 5.1

 

 

 

 

 

M

Hey guys, can anyone confirm that the Arcana doesn’t have the Dolby Vision issue?

 

I can 100% confirm that the Arcana works - you just need to set the device to pass the audio to the HDMI Out port and you do not use the eARC output port at all. You use the device just as a passthrough, similar to the intent of the DR HDMI 4K. This is my set up now and has been stable for weeks.

 

I can also confirm I am running into the Dolby Vision issue with the HDMI DR 4K. So, in my rushed eval on Monday, I missed this was not working with the built in EDID. I see now that the HDFury site has different EDIDs listed for the banks than what is on the sticker on the physical device. I have more to check on this and to get an EDID editor going for my personal interest.

 

And finally, I have chatted briefly on the HDFury Discord server with them. They are very fast and you can scroll through a ton of old chats too which can be helpful.

 

The Arcana only solves the handshake issue between UB820 and LG Cx to get UB820 to output LPCM for DTS mastered disks. As others have pointed out Sony blu ray player doesn’t have the handshake issue but regardless we still run into the following problem:

if it is LPCM 7.1 output ( DTS Mastered 7.1 streams) Sonos arc still has an unresolved bug after LPCM update that it doesn’t downmix properly from 7.1 to 5.1. @GuitarSuperstar @iBoyley @Laird M Malamed 

 

So if you have UB820 and LG CX, you need Arcana and Sonos arc firmware update. If you have Sony blu-ray player and a TV capable of passing LPCM you need Sonos arc firmware update. If you have either blu-ray player and a Samsung 2020 TV or projector LSP9T as I do which cannot pass LPCM, you need Samsung firmware update and Sonos firmware update.

 

 

 

G
Userlevel 7

@madhav Next week, I’ll be receiving a DTS demo Blu-ray disc that includes a 7.1 DTS test tones video. I’m very curious to see how the Arc handles the 7.1 PCM audio my Panasonic UHD player will send it.

"Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you." - Rashi
M

@GuitarSuperstar 

I just played Spectre 4K blu-ray on Sony Blu-ray player through LG CX to Sonos arc / 2x sub / 2 One SLs
The Blu-Ray outputs LPCM 7.1 (PCM conversion of DTS 7.1 audio stream) it is reported as 7.1 by Sonos App correctly.

The dialogue was fine, and there was surround from rears but it seemed to be lacking to my ear but I don’t have definitive evidence of mixing problem. The known Sonos bug is 2 surrounds in 7.1 are output from rears and what should be in rears is missing and not mixed in as I understand it.

@iBoyley If this turns out to be the case then HDFury (for those with Panasonic Blu-ray is only solving half the problem). Sonos have been working on a firmware fix for months now with no release. We should find out from CEO when that is coming. 

 

 

 

 

G
Userlevel 7

@madhav That’s why I am interested to see how test tones from the left and right side surround channels and the left and right rear channels will play out of my two Play:1s. If all four surround channels play the test tones clearly out of my two rear speakers, I would assume that the Arc is downmixing the four surround channels correctly.

"Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you." - Rashi
L
Userlevel 3
Badge +2

I wanted to report my latest findings - alas nothing that creates a fix without the DR HDMI 4K. And based on other recent threads, that may only solving part of the problem (7.1 not rendering correctly on the Sonos Arc + surrounds). However, to the issue of even getting the Panasonic to output multichannel at all, this is what I have to report.

 

I have filed a ticket with Panasonic on this issue, giving them extensive notes and links to this thread and others which report the issue. I have noted that other players are correctly outputting MC PCM audio with the LG C9/CX and Sonos Arc combo. That was filed today, and I do not expect an answer soon. I specifically asked that the email be passed to their audio engineering team as a customer support rep will not be versed in this area.

 

My main experiment this weekend has been to use a LG 90 UHD player as source. Directly connected to the LG, and with the LG set to decode the Blu-ray audio tracks, 5.1 audio is received by the Sonos from both DTS and Dolby tracks. Thus, the video and audio portions of our systems works. This has been widely reported as working, but I wanted to confirm with my set up that it was the case.


Further, I was curious to look at the EDID file with this set up - in some way did the LG player + LG TV somehow communicate better since all in the same brand. The answer is no. The EDID file provided by the TV to the LG 90 player is the exact same data as it shows to the Panasonic. This was absolutely my expectation, but I figured better safe than sorry.

 

I did a few other setting attempts just to see what happened. For example, I disconnected the Sonos and used the TV speakers. In general mode, I enabled Dolby surround for the internal speakers which creates a fake support mode. The Panasonic still refused to give out more than 2.0 PCM. (Note, with my C9, I could actually feed it DTS audio, but that is not the end goal here, so the point is moot. The CX would not support DTS in any regard.)

 

Basically, as far as I can tell, if you want full functionality from the Panasonic UMB820, you need to use a device that allows modification of the EDID file to correctly advertise Speaker data.

 

If you want to switch UHD players, alas all of them come with downsides:

LG - Decoded audio is all or nothing - DTS and Dolby cannot be selected individually. No upscaled 4K images from 1080P discs. 

Sony - Dolby Vision support requires toggling a setting

PlayStation or Xbox - I believe this can be set up to work for all discs and decode everything properly (plus you get a video game machine). However, unless you buy a remote, you have to use the game controller for control. The LG remote might work to a limited extent too.

Pioneer - not sure on this. Have not seen many threads.

Oppo - I think this works in all formats, but the unit is only available used and at high prices

Rip all media to video files and playback off USB/HD/Network - this works but of course is very manual to rip your library of discs!

 

I will report back what I hear from Panasonic. Based on previous threads, I suspect I will not get far. 

 

I would love to hear that a Sonos rep is aware of this thread and perhaps can look at this too - maybe the Sonos can tell the LG what speakers it has? I am very unclear how EDID data works from soundbars. I tried to see if I could hook up the Sonos to the DR HDMI 4K and capture it’s file, but this did not work at all.

 

 

 

 

 

S
Userlevel 4
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Hey people. In regard to the Panasonic 4K bluray players I’m going to suggest Panasonic have still been trying to improve it.

 

Yesterday I popped in Divergent to watch which has a DTS-X track. To my surprise I got quite a good surround experience compared to previous viewings. It was noticeable because the sequels have Atmos tracks and gave a much better experience with my Playbase setup. Bit weird because the specs for the 420 at least say no DTS-X decoding, only bitstream.

 

I always thought changing the Down mix setting to surround encoded didn’t do much of anything. 

I had changed the DTS down mix setting to PCM after reading all these threads but swapping it back still gave me pretty good surround.

 

Other DTS-HD based tracks don’t seem to give as much obvious improvement but after a quick little try I think Inception might give me decent surround if I bump up the volume on the surrounds. The front action from my Playbase seemed better. Will watch it tonight and see. Will also try to pick up another DTS-X track to see how a different one goes.

 

Anyway, this just to say hopefully everything will get sorted at some stage. Chin up.

 

I still expect to get an Arc at some stage though. 

 

 

 

2 x Play 1, Playbase, Panasonic EX 600, Panasonic UB420. One, One Sl + submini
fabian
Badge +2

 Appreciate your input and help! 👍🏻

@Ken_Griffiths: yes, it’s the Beam 2 (should have mentioned it first). I heard about the HDFury Arcana (I have not looked in detail into it), but always thought that it’s primarily for users with a TV that does not have an ARC (or eARC) capable HDMI port - which my LG BX has, despite lacking the DTS passthrough. I’m not sure if want to invest another 250$ “just” for that. Is there any recommendation on any cheaper device that you can give? I was really hoping to somehow solve this with tweaking the Audio Settings in my setup - specifically with my Blu-ray player.

@Silverthorn: unfortunately, changing “Downmix” to “Surround encoded” did not help either. Still says “Stereo PCM” when I play my disc. I left all other settings as seen in my initial screenshot. The discs I am trying to play have just “normal” DTS, not DTS X. Here is a photo of the disc:

@GuitarSuperstar: tried also that: switching “Bitstream” to “PCM” for DTS/DTS-HD in the second screenshot. Still, Sonos App shows the sound as “Stereo PCM” when I play the disc.

I even tried both: setting it to “PCM” and changing Downmix to “Surround encoded”. Still no luck.

Anything else worth trying?

S
Userlevel 4
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^^^^^ Goodness I am glad I put Divergent with its DTS-X track on again. My quick test of a DTS-HD had me thinking I just needed to bump up the surrounds a bit to get a decent surround mix out of them and that proved to be true.

 

I was particularly happy to get the music score for 2001 also coming from the surrounds. Stereo from the front always felt a bit lacking after being to the surrounds being used for music playback.

 

+5 on the surrounds seems about right.

Not much of a pain to do it for the few DTS-HD discs I have. Fortunately I don't have any legacy Blurays. 

2 x Play 1, Playbase, Panasonic EX 600, Panasonic UB420. One, One Sl + submini
S
Userlevel 4
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You know I just had a thought maybe the change is on Sonos' end. Maybe they weren't looking at what sort of Dolby Pro logic type stuff was added to the stereo downmix by the Panasonic 4k Bluray player until some time more recently?

 

In more recent times I have been a bit surprised how many free to air movies I watch give me surround now even when the Sonos app says it's Stereo PCM

 

 

2 x Play 1, Playbase, Panasonic EX 600, Panasonic UB420. One, One Sl + submini
D
Userlevel 1
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I got the Arcana today to try and fix the LPCM issue with the Panasonic 820 which it did, however still have the 7.1 bug that Sonos has yet to fix.  However it then caused my nVidia Shield TV to start outputting everything DTS to stereo 2.0 now.  Removed the Arcana and it fixes the Shield back to doing LPCM multichannel so wtf lol.  Also experienced a lot of random CEC issues, unable to control volume and having to power things off and power on in certain orders multiple times etc.  I’d rather listen to some disks in stereo than to deal with those issues so I’m sending it back or selling it.  I sure wish Panasonic or somebody could just fix this issue, especially with all the work ya’ll are doing to pinpoint it, thanks for being persistent and hopefully it pays off!  I too had opened a case with Panasonic and they had also asked for proof of purchase which I gave but then their reply was to go into the settings and set the audio settings to PCM and try etc, things we obviously already tried before contacting anybody so I gave up.

L
Userlevel 3
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FYI - I have finally listed my no longer needed Arcana as I switched to the DR HDMI 4K to solve my issue. (Scroll back through this thread to see my saga.) Since I was comfortable editing the EDID files. the DR HDMI 4K is a better solution for me.

 

If you are interested in acquiring my item, the listing is here:

http://ebay.us/MYOBc5?cmpnId=5338273189

 

It is certainly not a comprehensive solution, but it is a relatively easy one, particularly if your set up is not very complex. Do read the post above for issues with the nVidia devices.

 

G
Userlevel 7

@fabian Does your TV have the latest firmware installed?

"Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you." - Rashi
B

Wow that was a very long read! Some very clever people in here, thank you.

Sadly i am not one of those very clever people! 

I think i have read and understood everything correctly, so basically the panasonic 820/sonos 5.1/LG CX&newer are the perfect storm of not talking to each other. The only work around is to buy an arcana fury (pay more but plug n play) or the DR version but you need to be pretty tech confident? 

I only own 2 uhds and both are dolby vision so i stupidly thought all uhds would be, but if i am reading it right the vast majority are in DTS. 

Should i just return my panasonic 820 and buy a different brand that works? I dont know about anyone else but after spending roughly 3.5k on it all  i thought it would all just work lol. 

Sorry i know this is rehashing old ground for alot of you...on a side note the lotr uhd was amazing ;)

 

M
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Hi @maxwood , for the setup you have, it seems the best we can do at this point in time is to use external hardware to allow for pass-through of Multichannel PCM from DTS type formatted audio output discs through the player. Even with that, it comes through the system as Multichannel PCM 7.1 even when it should be coming through as Multichannel PCM 5.1. This may be better than the alternative without those devices, which is Stereo PCM output.

 

Some have mentioned that it’s working properly even in 7.1 format. I have yet to acquire a disc like @GuitarSuperstar has mentioned above and thus have still not been able to verify that it is working properly for me.

 

The Sonos team has mentioned that they’re working on a proper downmixing from Multichannel PCM 5.1 from Multichannel PCM 7.1 format, but not sure when that will occur.

 

The tool I used, following @Laird M Malamed ‘s info in this thread, helped to get to Multichannel PCM 7.1 instead of Stereo PCM output, is the DR HDMI 4K device. I used it on Windows 10 with the USB connector that comes with the device. This device sits between the Panasonic and the LG TV. This requires a bit of work to save a proper setup to the device by sinking data from your TV and then modifying it on your computer. You can follow the posts in this thread for guidance. Others have mentioned that the HDFury Arcana works automatically, but I have not tried that route.

 

I can say that playing Zelda: Breath of the Wild with Multichannel PCM 7.1 is a lot better than Stereo PCM output, even if I am losing some sounds due to not being downmixed to 5.1 properly, but that may not be the case for other media. For now, I’m mostly watching Dolby audio movie discs...I don’t know if we’ll ever get a proper DTS conversion through the LG TV, but I am hopeful. Good luck, and if you learn anything new, that would also be great to hear!


Thank you @Hebassaurus for the in depth reply, I appreciate that.
 

@Laird M Malamed’s excellent solutions might be a little over my head but I might have a go when I get my hands on the Arc and I’ve tried out a few discs with the supposed correct settings on the UB450 and then I’ll make a call then how far I’m going to go with tinkering.

 

Thanks again.

J

Hey guys, can anyone confirm that the Arcana doesn’t have the Dolby Vision issue?

 

I can 100% confirm that the Arcana works - you just need to set the device to pass the audio to the HDMI Out port and you do not use the eARC output port at all. You use the device just as a passthrough, similar to the intent of the DR HDMI 4K. This is my set up now and has been stable for weeks.

 

I can also confirm I am running into the Dolby Vision issue with the HDMI DR 4K. So, in my rushed eval on Monday, I missed this was not working with the built in EDID. I see now that the HDFury site has different EDIDs listed for the banks than what is on the sticker on the physical device. I have more to check on this and to get an EDID editor going for my personal interest.

 

And finally, I have chatted briefly on the HDFury Discord server with them. They are very fast and you can scroll through a ton of old chats too which can be helpful.

 

@Laird M Malamed 

Can you clarify how you are using the arcana with the UB820, Sonos Arc, and your tv? I have the UB820, Arc 5.1 set up, and LG CX. Other posts (and HD fury's website) suggest that I need to split the audio and video from the arcana, with the "HDMI out" going to the tv and the "eARC out" going to the Sonos Arc. But it sounds like you are saying I could just go from UB820 --> arcana --> TV, using only "HDMI out"? I don't really get how the arcana fixes the passthrough issue with that set up, but I'm hoping I understand you correctly because that would mean I don't need an HDMI switch. If this is correct, is there a particular setting to look for on the arcana for this specific issue? Thank you in advance!

 

S
Userlevel 4
Badge +6

You misunderstood my post about the downmix option @fabian . Yes the Sonos app will still show stereo PCM but it will have a dolby pro logic style information added to it. I suggest you try it again and have a listen again to a good DTS soundtrack and put your head next to the one of the surrounds. It does work at least it does for me with my Playbase.

 

Dolby Surround Pro Logic is the full name that refers to the matrix surround format and decoding system in one. When a Dolby Surround soundtrack is created in post-production (Dolby MP Matrix), four channels of sound are matrix-encoded into an ordinary stereo (two-channel) soundtrack.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Pro_Logic

2 x Play 1, Playbase, Panasonic EX 600, Panasonic UB420. One, One Sl + submini
R

I purchased a Panasonic UB820 this week and have a Beam 2 connected connected to a LG C1 TV using eARC HDMI. I could only ever get 2 PCM 2.0 stereo as I found out the LG C1 TV does not support DTS even for HDMI pass through (I am not sure if this is the same case for C9). In the end I have got DTS audio out but only by using the optical adapter to HDMI adapter that came with my Beam 2 and using it to directly connect from the optical port of the UB820 to the HDMI of the Beam 2. This means I have to swap HDMI cables at the back when I don’t need DTS and audio may need to be synced but it’s worth it. I plan on trying a HDMI switch with this setup in the future to save on cable swapping. I think the ARC comes with an optical to HDMI adapter so may help in this situation. I think they can also be purchased (check with Sonos for compatibility). For UB820 audio settings when using DTS I have DTS bitstream and the second hdmi audio set to on as it says it down mixes DTS Master audio to DTS which the Beam 2 can handle. Although not tested with HDMI second audio off or auto.

M
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I have this same problem, LG cx - ub820 - beam v2

Called panasonic today, no luck

Called sonos today, no luck

Sonos say that i have to go through the tv to get dts, but as you all know LG cx not compatible with dts!

Tried all the above settings and i cant get the 820 the give out dts?

I tried the PS4 with a blu ray dts, and it came out on the S2 iphone app saying multichannel PCM 7.1 !!?

I guess i will have to play my big collection of DTS films through the PS4 then, if i decide to keep the beam?

Its a real shame i can’t get the panasonic to play them though given the better tech it packs over the PS4!

G
Userlevel 7

I have this same problem, LG cx - ub820 - beam v2

Called panasonic today, no luck

Called sonos today, no luck

Sonos say that i have to go through the tv to get dts, but as you all know LG cx not compatible with dts!

Tried all the above settings and i cant get the 820 the give out dts?

I tried the PS4 with a blu ray dts, and it came out on the S2 iphone app saying multichannel PCM 7.1 !!?

I guess i will have to play my big collection of DTS films through the PS4 then, if i decide to keep the beam?

Its a real shame i can’t get the panasonic to play them though given the better tech it packs over the PS4!

Since the LG CX cannot pass through DTS audio, your only option is setting the Blu-ray player to convert DTS to PCM so you can get multichannel PCM audio (which sounds better than DTS Digital Surround). Or you can get the HDFury Arcana so your Blu-ray player can bypass your TV’s limitations.

To get multichannel PCM audio from DTS discs, be sure to set the DTS/DTS-HD setting on the UB820 to PCM. It’s best to turn off the Secondary Audio feature too.

"Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you." - Rashi
G
Userlevel 7

Sonos has made progress with the 7.1 to 5.1 down mixing issue. All four of the surround channels of a 7.1 mix from a DTS-encoded disc now plays audio. The two rear surround channels from a 7.1 mix used to not play at all, only the two side surround channels. I tested this using DTS 7.1 Sound Check on a DTS demo disc.

"Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you." - Rashi
M
Badge

I have this same problem, LG cx - ub820 - beam v2

Called panasonic today, no luck

Called sonos today, no luck

Sonos say that i have to go through the tv to get dts, but as you all know LG cx not compatible with dts!

Tried all the above settings and i cant get the 820 the give out dts?

I tried the PS4 with a blu ray dts, and it came out on the S2 iphone app saying multichannel PCM 7.1 !!?

I guess i will have to play my big collection of DTS films through the PS4 then, if i decide to keep the beam?

Its a real shame i can’t get the panasonic to play them though given the better tech it packs over the PS4!

Since the LG CX cannot pass through DTS audio, your only option is setting the Blu-ray player to convert DTS to PCM so you can get multichannel PCM audio (which sounds better than DTS Digital Surround). Or you can get the HDFury Arcana so your Blu-ray player can bypass your TV’s limitations.

To get multichannel PCM audio from DTS discs, be sure to set the DTS/DTS-HD setting on the UB820 to PCM. It’s best to turn off the Secondary Audio feature too.

Hello mate, i did try changing the dts to pcm but i got nothing, this has been driving me mad for days!

 

fabian
Badge +2

@fabian Does your TV have the latest firmware installed?

Yes, 100%. I usually have it on auto-update and my LG BX is running v04.50.53, as of today. Panasonic Blu-ray player and Sonos system for Beam 2 also running latest update.

You misunderstood my post about the downmix option @fabian . Yes the Sonos app will still show stereo PCM but it will have a dolby pro logic style information added to it. I suggest you try it again and have a listen again to a good DTS soundtrack and put your head next to the one of the surrounds. It does work at least it does for me with my Playbase.

Interesting, sorry for my misunderstanding - I will give this of more thorough test later. Could you post a screenshot of how this exactly looks like in your Sonos app? Just to be sure: the only thing I would need to change in the settings from my posted screenshots is changing “Downmix” to “Surround encoded”? All the values under “Digital Audio Output” should (must?) be left as “Bitstream” … correct?

H
Userlevel 1
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That’s good news @GuitarSuperstar , I did see that they were working on it, but that they haven’t technically marked it resolved just yet. I haven’t had a chance to do a proper test when receiving 7.1 at this point. Do you know what DTS demo disc you’re using? I found one for 2020, but it only seemed to have movie clips...not a sound check that you mentioned.

 

And thanks for the tips @Laird M Malamed . Good to hear that it all works great on your Oppo! Wish I could find one of those...maybe I’ll look into acquiring one used, but we’ll see...kind of expensive..and used haha. So does the Oppo convert it to Multichannel PCM 5.1 correctly from DTS-HD Master 5.1, or is that still incorrectly coming through as Multichannel PCM 7.1?

 

As for the cables, I have not switched them out, but I have tried them all (they’re capable for 48Gbps) with the Xbox Series X and PS5 and can confirm that I get HDR no problem @120Hz in games, so it shouldn’t be a transfer rate issue as the Panasonic can’t output more than 60Hz. I use these same cables from the Panasonic → HDMI 4K → LG G1 → Sonos Arc (not needed for this last step, but still am using it).

 

For the Dolby Vision issue, I’ll play around with ordering, but I have been able to consistently get Dolby Vision in my few runs so far since that first post. Just gets a little finicky at times...so I can’t complain too much. But I really would like the Multichannel downmixing thing to be resolved on the Arc. That will make me super happy!

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