Can people stop complaining about DTS?



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Userlevel 7
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Yea, I added "if at all possible" for the reasons you specified. I agree that retroactively enabling DTS would surely be cost prohibitive, but would it be so to enable it on a future new product? Would it work if you change the price of a playbar 2.0 to $750 to cover costs? Does it makes sense to have 2 versions of the playbar, with or without DTS? Does it make sense to have a digital pay system so customers can pay for the codecs they want?

I don't have answers. I guess you could say I have an opinion, but not that strong of one.

As for atmos, I'm not sure it's a big improvement with a 5.1 system. If/when additional speakers can be added to a HT Sonos room, then maybe,

To be clear, I'm in favor of adding DTS if at all possible. I don't need it for myself personally, but in my opinion, it make their home theatre products less user friendly and deters sales. I don't have all the facts around that, just my opinion.
Danny,

I wonder what the cost would actually be to now licence the DTS codec from Xperi on every existing Sonos HT device and any future device and I wonder who would be asked to pay for that codec. I can’t see Xperi saying 'have this one on us'.

I’m sure those costs would somehow be passed onto the majority of users too, who may never, or hardly ever, use it, perhaps?

I’m not sure that the majority should be paying for the needs of the minority, so I would still prefer Sonos to ignore DTX and switchover to Atmos instead as I’m happy to pay for something I would be using.. I think that would then hopefully please the majority too and keep costs lower.

I would be happier, if there was the option to pay for a DTS codec add-on/update and Sonos/Xperi allowed the users to decide if they wanted to pay for that feature. I’m not sure what the actual costs would be though, given all the support costs too.
Userlevel 7
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I did know about this issue when I bought the Sonos Beam, so I abide by it. However, I agree that it's a little disingenuous to advertise the speakers as home theater capable when they can't play the most common audio codec found on most blu ray disks and many DVDs. I'm just not convinced by Sonos's reasoning here - if there's some technical reason why they can't implement the decoder then just come out and say so, but please stop pretending that their customers haven't been begging for DTS support for years.

I'm not sure why making their reasoning public, beyond what they've already stated regarding streaming media, would be of benefit. Like I said, they did say that they're research suggested that most customers stream media, and therefore felt DTS was less important...and that reasoning has mostly been rejected. Why would a new reason now be acceptable to customers? I'm not saying I don't personally want to know all the details about the decision, I just don't see how telling us makes me or anyone else feel better about it.

As for pretending...have they? They responded from time to time, particularly regarding DTS on the new products Beam and Sonos Amp. I have little doubt that they are well aware of what customers are asking for.

To Be clear, I'm in favor of adding DTS if at all possible. I don't need it for myself personally, but in my opinion, it make their home theatre products less user friendly and deters sales. I don't have all the facts around that, just my opinion.
I don’t want to stifle anyone’s opinion, but I would hope Sonos ignore DTS and choose to go along with Netflix/Prime/Apple/Google and aim for Dolby Atmos instead. Discs will likely become a thing of the past or a rare item and replaced by Digital streaming anyway.

I can see Apple opening up their own streaming movie service soon to run alongside Netflix & the others. It’s possible they may do that within the current pricing of their music service.

My hope therefore is that Sonos remains focused on the majority customer base and stick with where those users clearly appear to be heading.
Userlevel 2
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It's less an issue for me since I almost always rip and compress my blu rays out to a media server as soon as I get them. I convert the DTS tracks to Dolby while I'm at it and all is well. However, it would be tremendously convenient to ocasionally throw a blu ray disk into the playstation (you know, the most common blu ray player on the planet), and have the Sonos system actually play the default surround track as intended.

I did know about this issue when I bought the Sonos Beam, so I abide by it. However, I agree that it's a little disingenuous to advertise the speakers as home theater capable when they can't play the most common audio codec found on most blu ray disks and many DVDs. I'm just not convinced by Sonos's reasoning here - if there's some technical reason why they can't implement the decoder then just come out and say so, but please stop pretending that their customers haven't been begging for DTS support for years.
Userlevel 4
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I always find it odd that people want to stifle what other people might complain about. If you don't like it then don't read it rather than trying to control other people.
Userlevel 3
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I whinge about the shortcomings of Sonos with DTS, No Airplay 2 on the Playbar and the lip sync issues with LG Oled TV's and often think I should have gone with Bose. I always thought the Soundtouch ST300 looked nicer than the Playbar.

However, I then look at Bose and the failed promises of Airplay 2 on any of their soundtouch line, no mesh network, no apple music and now the pathetic situation of the soundtouch line essentially being discontinued and the new wifi speakers being completely incompatible with any soundtouch product and am reminded how much better the Sonos eco system really is.

Think about it, you can have a Zone Player from a decade or more ago in perfect sync with a Sonos One Alexa speaker. Bose can't even manage to allow you to sync a bose soundtouch product bought new today with one of their new home speaker branded products which is what all their new wireless speakers are going to be branded as. Imagine how annoyed you'd be having spent thousands and already being forced into obsolescence?

I used Bose as an example as they are the most obvious competitor to Sonos, however you can use many brands in their place.
> To learn that the Beam doesn't even accept multi-channel PCM (let's not even speak of DTS, DD+ etc.) is simply shocking.

It is... and the playbar can't play DTS...
But even more, you can't connect Play:5 to the Playbar for audio streaming from your TV. Listen, nice concept, but totally not adequate or practical. Is it so hard to fix these things? Seen from the price point, it should.
I'm one of those uninformed customers (despite working in IT) that foolishly assumed that any product marketed for home cinema in 2018 would, of course, support all common multi-channel formats.

To learn that the Beam doesn't even accept multi-channel PCM (let's not even speak of DTS, DD+ etc.) is simply shocking.

I still have a Yamaha AV receiver in my basement that I bought in 2003 (that's 15 years(!) ago) that has support for DD5.1, DTS, DTS-ES, and Multi-channel PCM. And all that was over Toslink (HDMI wasn't a thing back then). So telling people that there is *any* kind of technical reason why they can't at least support audio codecs from the last decade is just BS.
While I'm unwilling to give up on my "there's a licensing issue", I do also thing there's some potentials around DTS around an optical connection...although that's a bit more murky. I've seen websites that state it *is* possible, and others that it *isn't*. So, I can easily imagine that Sonos would have some issues around that aspect as well.

There's a lot of PLAYBARs and PLAYBASEs out there, without the HDMI interface. One wonders what the future will bring.
I am another user that would like to see DTS. They missed the boat with the Playbase, which was just a reshaped Playbar and again have failed to deliver with the Beam; although this has HDMI finally.

I suspect there may be a technical reason why they cannot deliver DTS, rather than licensing.

Just jumping at straws, but the increased bandwidth of DTS doesn't play nicely with the current code Sonos uses.
Oh by the way, I own an Oppo 203 which plays about every format made. SONOS recomended I buy another Blu-ray (Samsung) which will convert DTS to 5.1. Just what I want to do. Spend $500 on a blu-ray player $2000 for SONOS speakers and then go buy a second blu-ray player to hear half of my movies.

I agree with the above statement I should have bought the Bose.

I'm really pissed off about this! But SONOS doesnt seem to care one bit.
This is a ridiclous argument to be having in 2018 when even $100 Visio soundbars play DTS. SONOS claims the Playbar is for home theater, BUT according to the Costco website (who is now selling the playbar) it will play all formats connected to it - including Blu-ray players. I called Costco and guess where they got that information? The manufacture - SONOS. What a pack of lies. So even doing research beforehand is misleading.

My 100 disc Blu-ray collection has about 60% DTS discs. Guess what - I get no sound unless its PCM. I have the sub, and 4 play 1's which are all great but the playbar is a total letdown. I would love to return it but SONOS is not willing to tack back a 8 week old product.

SONOS tells me there is no demand for DTS support - bull. I'm pissed off because rather than showing off my OLED TV with awesome sound I end up playing most movies thru the TV speakers and not my $2000 sound system.

I'm the sucker - and my wife reminds me of that every time I have to change audio output for DTS.
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Criticism, or as you like to say "complaining", brings change.. or at least should, and people want, expect and deserve change. The system sounds great for a good portion of content, costs a premium but can't handle a basic media format that many still use to different extents. It'd probably cost Sonos cents or dollars on each unit to implement but I imagine they are losing out on many high dollar sales from those who deem DTS necessary. It'd not just be great for current customers who watch Blurays now and then but it'd be a good business decision. I hope Sonos stock going public will help push this.
I like how all of my favorite Blu Rays won’t play on my new $2K surround sound system. Or the fact if I wasn’t geeky enough to change the audio settings to PCM, I’d get no sound at all. I’m just curious what SONOS was thinking for the average consumer? I bet they’re filling a lot of jobs in their “technical support” department. Just buy the damn license ageeemwnt & give us the software update!! I should’ve bought the Bose. *sigh*

Be happy you're still able to change your settings. I made the mistake of doing the 9.0 update and now I can't get at my settings.
I like how all of my favorite Blu Rays won’t play on my new $2K surround sound system. Or the fact if I wasn’t geeky enough to change the audio settings to PCM, I’d get no sound at all. I’m just curious what SONOS was thinking for the average consumer? I bet they’re filling a lot of jobs in their “technical support” department. Just buy the damn license ageeemwnt & give us the software update!! I should’ve bought the Bose. *sigh*
It would be great if DTS was a supported format!
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I think this topic is frankly ridiculous.

Sonos has a lot of Home Cinema booths set up in retail stores worldwide, in which they advertise their expensive playbar-sub-two rears as a complete home cinema system. What they don't tell you is that if you buy one, you are severly restricting yourself in terms of content you can play on your system.

The core of the problem is not that dolby digital 5.1 does not sound good or immersive. It's that your Sonos system it is unable to play a lot of common audio sources that feed into a typical home cinema system.

For crying out loud more than 80% of Blu-rays have DTS audio tracks. If you have a 4k / HDR television, and you want to experience ultra HD bluray 4k content, which is vastly superior in terms of visual quality to what Netflix streams, unless you have a very expensive blu-ray player that transcodes, you will have either stereo or no sound.

This is also foregoing the possibility that streaming services will move to higher fidelity sound codecs such as DTS and DD TrueHD in the coming years (which they will). That would mean that unless you get a transcoding device, you and your Sonos home cinema system will be stuck in stereo.

If you are okay with getting stereo sound in 2018 from your $1600 Sonos Home Cinema system, be my guest. I'm not, which is why, like others, I'm trying to get my voice heard. We are locked in the ecosystem, switching costs are high, which is why Sonos is getting away with this kind of stuff.

I seriously do not get why you are complaining about people raising this issue. If it does not affect you, good for you. This issue is a big issue for alot of people though.

If you think Sonos is making the decision to not support modern audio codecs and connections out of practical, design and 'love for audio' considerations, you are kidding yourself. Sonos is gearing up for an IPO and has in the past year laid of plenty of employees. They are pursuing a fat bottom line on the short run. That is exactly why they are targeting the technically unsavvy affluent consumer, looking for a premium home cinema system.


Bravo, succinctly put.


What they said x100 ;)


What TellerNavynuts wrote... so true. Brilliantly resuming this argument in few words.
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I beleive the industry failed Sonos. Such as there was obviously a standard set at one point to use dd 5.1 via optical out from tv as a standard. That many tv manufacturers decided to skimp on and leave off.
And there I was thinking that it was Sonos that "skimped" and left DTS (and HDMI) off!

You learn something new everyday. :$


Lol it's 2 a.m. and I'm laughing alone in my living room!
The TV industry has failed poor Sonos...
And the other guy answer... about Sonos being the one skimping on important features...
Oh I wish I had been the one giving that so truthful answer lol
Hahahaha! That's a good one sir, you made my day!

Geeze it's always good for the moral to read this Sonos forum. It sounds like half people who are posting are real customers who know what they're talking about (that Sonos is a very flawed product) and the other half that sounds like Sonos employees who don't have a clue how their Sonos product is flawed.

I agree, DTS and HDMI are features that have been standards for so many years, but I guess the Sonos guys are living on another planet. Because if the Sonos guys were living on Earth, where the hell were they when was released the Signature Edition of Ridley's Scott movie : Gladiator. Yes that old 2000 old movie with Russel Crowe that had DTS-ES soundtrack. One of THE movie that every, EVERY, real home-theater aficionados have watch to enjoy their DTS compatible system (and to test it).

Anyone who watched that movie, from that day, knew how DTS was lightyears ahead of Dolby. And Gladiator is only one exemple.

It's still the same today. DTS-HS Master Audio is giving the finger to Dolby TrueHD. There's no comparaison when you have a system that actually can benefit from lossless audio codec (by that I mean a system that performs with excellence in audio reproduction, not a system that adds Dynamic this, Audyssey that, DSP all the way baby, not a system that tries very hard to make me believe I'm sitting in the Kodak theater, or the Viena Opera).

If you want to know what DTS is, do yourself a real treat, buy "Joe Bonamassa - Live from the Royal Albert Hall" Blu-ray and listen to the DTS-HD Master Audio soundtrack. Listen to it in 2 channel. Without any DSP or any other stupid marketing scam that actually destroys the sound. You will see Joe Bonamassa play at the Royal Albert Hall in London, you will feel you are sitting in the audience with all those people who lived that magic moment that night at the Royal Albert Hall.

That Blu-ray was out on the market in 2010. That's pretty close to when the Sonos Playbar was put on the market. I guess the guys at Sonos don't like Joe Bonomassa otherwise they would have walk on their hands head upside down in front of their CEO to be allowed to put DTS decoding into Sonos. Because even without lossless codec (yeah since Sonos was "smart" (cough!) not putting HDMI) standard DTS-ES is still lightyears ahead of Dolby Digital.

Or well maybe the other guy was right after all, Sonos is solely a multi-room streaming product. Period.
It's us, home-theater aficionados that wish Sonos was a stellar 5.1 home theater system. We wish Sonos was what is it not intended to be. Our bad. We should stop whining and start seing Sonos has an expensive multi-room streaming device. Period.

Euh... wait! Maybe it's the DTS guys who failed Sonos by not being able to convince them to make the Playbar DTS codec compatible???

Everyone on the DTS forum!!!
Userlevel 1
Just to add, most DD 5.1 soundtracks are mixed at 448 or 640kb/s, where as a DTS core soundtrack will be closer to 1.5Mb/s. DTS Core will automatically be extracted from a DTS MA soundtrack by most TV players if DTS MA is not acceptable and will be passed through an Optical connection perfectly fine at this bitrate. So by Sonos restricting their equipment to DD 5.1 signals only, we are effectively being forced to listen to inferior sound quality from our movie collections for the sake of the cost of a DTS decoder license.
Userlevel 1
In order to get a DD 5.1 stream from all my films, I've resorted to using KODI installed on an Amazon Fire TV box, with KODI set to transcode all non DD films to DD. For my 4K films I have to use the built in video / photo player in my LG OLED55B7 in order to correctly process the HDR signal. For 4K films with DTS MA, I've had to use EAC3To to extract the DTS-HD soundtrack, create a DD 5.1 track from it, then remux the film to include the DD5.1 track so I can select this from the LG player. Complete ball ache, but gets my round the ridiculous Sonos processing limitations as they stand.
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For me personally, the Apple TV 4K is the perfect device in combination with Sonos as it can convert any audio codec into a Sonos compatible multichannel format (assuming the source has multichannel of course). I'm using the "Infuse" app which is capable of playing any movies/content (up to 4K HDR) with DTS HD/Dolby+ sound, the AppleTV will convert it on the fly in AC3 5.1 (if you change the audio settings once). Of course it also works with Dolby Digital Plus from the Netflix app.

Another advantage of the Apple TV is the built-in AirPlay 2 support so the "old" Playbar even profits more. There are HDMI switches that support 4K (@60Hz), HDR, ARC, CEC and have a built-in optical audio output (SPDIF) so when using one of these you can even use the Apple TV on the Playbar without turning on the TV (e.g. for music/AirPlay 2), I'm using a Vorke HD41PRO.

Concerning BluRay: are there really BluRays that have exclusive DTS audio? I've never seen one, all my BluRays have a backward compatible Dolby 5.1 audio track. But even if there are such BluRays one has to buy a player that can convert it on the fly (Stereo is not an option for me). My PlayStation 4 does it for example as well as some Samsung players.

Long story short: I was fully aware that Sonos can only handle AC3 5.1 before I bought all my equipment (many years ago) and I'm quite happy that there are possibilities to have at least 5.1 sound in any condition (if the source supports it of course). I bought the Apple TV 4 for 140€ and (for me) it's worth every penny - also quite cheap in relationship to Sonos speakers. It even supports Dolby Vision and therefore is the perfect companion for my LG OLED TV (but this has nothing to do with Sonos). Not to mention all the available apps (even the german SkyQ) nor the HomeKit Hub functionality.
Userlevel 7
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To the starter of this thread, I could not disagree with you more.

How true!
To the starter of this thread, I could not disagree with you more.

I would buy SONOS (I nearly did because their UI is good) if it had at least basic DTS support, as almost all of my Blurays are DTS! These DTS Licenses in bulk purchases to OEMs are not expensive and I've seen this daft argument from manufacturers like AUDIOLAB that did the 8000AP and 8200AP before...

...guess what, because they refuse to implement the basics of decoding high-def formats natively (instead rely on your Player to convert to LPCM for them so they don't have to pay the puny License fee) they have discontinued their line of AVP due to nobody buying their corner-cutting barebones hardware to maximise profits.
I think the issue is around those that know how the tech works and those that don't. It's not unreasonable to think that a system that can be built and is sold as 5.1 will work with a blurry player and reproduce 5.1. I was happy enough to buy a new player that could convert dts to dd but it shouldn't be necessary. I'm not worried about any differences in sound quality or effects but Sonos sells itself as a simple to use system that means owners can plug and play as far as possible. They should pay the extra licensees fee which I understand is the issue with not supporting dts? and support their customers better.

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