The Sonos Brexit and pragmatic ways past it


I will start this thread with a few caveats:

First, this thread is not for rants. There are plenty here for those, and there is no bar on opening new ones.

Second, the thread is directed for the subset of users that have a large investment in legacy products, and are content to see their Sonos systems as music systems that offer stable streamed music from either a NAS or from the net, and have no expectation of more bells and whistles - just that things continue to work as they are working today. I happen to be in this boat as well, as someone that has three out of six zones running very well on legacy products that I simply cannot afford to jettison until the hardware dies.

Third, this thread is based on facts, some of which have been coming to light only over the last 48 or so hours. It is therefore incomplete to an extent, and may even be wrong in places. Feel free therefore to clarify/correct/add as necessary - and I specifically invite @Ryan S  to do so. But, no rants please - they have a place, but this is not it.

All that said, this is the solution I intend to proceed with and recommend here:

Opt for a legacy system operation in May, that will run legacy and modern products, exactly as these run today; no faffing around with two networks. No more enhancements, but expecting Sonos to honestly fulfil their recent promise of all bug fixes that the legacy products can accommodate. Ditto for what needs to be done to accommodate changes driven by at least the mainstream service providers.

By a happy coincidence, all legacy products have line in jacks. So if something even happens at the streaming service end that cannot be accommodated in legacy products, I am confident of finding some device that can be wired to the line in jacks of these, that will still allow streaming from the culprit service to work including in grouped mode with all other products in the system.

The streaming from the local NAS will not have any issues in this mode, other than hardware failures including that of the NAS, and a key assumption here is that NAS changes will not need a Sonos software update.

Although Sonos has said that new products can be added to such a system, I do not see how this is possible once new products come installed with versions that are beyond the frozen legacy system one. Unless Sonos is not going to sell any new products in future with versions beyond the 2020 legacy one - I doubt that. And once a product comes with the latest version, adding it to a legacy system without rendering legacy products inoperable is going to be tricky because it will involve first separating the one system into two; I also admit to being a little fuzzy with this bit. In my case, this is all moot; I have no need for another zone. As an aside, I am someone therefore that is not of much interest to Sonos!

I also assume that if anyone at any time in the future wanted to jettison legacy products for any reason, all they will need to do is leave all such products powered off, invoke updates and the result will be a Sonos system updated to the day they do the invocation. The concern here for me is different - I need to have an ironclad way of NOT updating my system before I am ready to separate or jettison legacy products, and this needs more insights into how things will work on this front in future.

I am pretty sure that this way ahead will work in my use case and I suggest it will also work for many that are heavily invested in Sonos legacy products, that do not want to write it off or to trade up to new products just to retain all existing functionality.

Yes, it involves losing future enhancements/features, but once we accept that these essentially are music boxes that will keep doing all they do today, that should be an acceptable trade off, I suggest. It is to me, for sure.

So this way, this event will be just a minor inconvenience, and I expect to be able to use all my existing products till the hardware fails.

What this event has convince me though is to now look at/recommend smart systems that are truly modular in the sense that the smart bits can be periodically replaced at low cost, while the core “dumb” electronic hardware can be of such build/after sales support, that it justifies the higher investment in the consequent price, if better sound quality is also needed than what the smart front ends can alone provide. But that's for the future.

 


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Userlevel 7
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I will freeze my Sonos installations in May, to permit my complete Sonos systems to continue to operate as one, per one of the key original selling points of the Sonos system (‘whole house music’). I’ll keep these systems running, even if I eventually have to use AirPlay and/or Line-In for everything, as streaming services become incompatible with the Sonos firmware.

I will make no further Sonos purchases. Whole house audio systems are not a throwaway purchase.

A minor point, but I don’t want to have to switch off iOS automatic updates for all of the 100+ apps on my iOS devices, just to prevent the Sonos app from updating. Sonos needs to provide a legacy iOS app, separate to the one which is acquiring new features.

Frankly, though, if Sonos is losing customers like me, they’re in really deep trouble.

I really don't have a dog in this fight, my system is comfortably locked at 7.4, doing everything I purchased it to do. Although it would be nice to be able to replace units as needed. But here's a novel approach.

Disclaimer: This is possibly based on faulty assumptions as I haven't even been able to purchase a new product for awhile now and don't know what the current installation of new hardware steps are.

Basic Assumptions:

1. You have, will have or want a legacy installation. Legacy being defined as any firmware version       released prior to 2015.
2. You purchase a new unit because of a hardware failure or expansion - NOT any new features.

You then plug the new unit into the system.  It takes a look around and presents the following options:

1. Create a new system. At this point it downloads the latest and greatest firmware with all the bells and whistles and creates its own network installation with no inter-operability with any existing installation.

2. Join an existing system. At this point, it goes back and takes another look and presents the following options:

   - Your system is running legacy firmware Version x.x, do you want to retain this functionality?  

      If you answer yes, it will state that no future SONOS support will be provided or available.

     Do you want to continue?

      If you answer yes, it goes out to SONOS, downloads and installs firmware Version x.x 

     and joins  the legacy installation.

     If you answer no, (to either question) it will state that this will require that all existing units be

    upgraded to the latest and greatest firmware.  And further states that any units not capable of   

    running the latest and  greatest firmware will no longer function in this installation.

    Then it does its thing.

This will also require SONOS to make  the software for all legacy controller versions available for download - with the stated warning that SONOS will not provide any support for these versions.

Other larger and more established hardware vendors provide similar backward compatibility in their own ways, but this keeps SONOS firmware versions out of prying hands which is something that seems important to them.

Does this make everybody happy? Admittedly, No. But it does retain the full functionality of existing systems at whatever firmware version they are using and provide the ability to expand that installation or replace faulty equipment.  It also provides for SONOS to continue to evolve and provide the latest and greatest features that today's ever evolving technological society seems to want.

IMNSHO, SONOS's stated position that an installation with mismatched firmwares will be possible is akin to a politician's campaign promise and you're all fools if you believe it.  I'll just go make some more popcorn and lurk from the dark corner of the peanut gallery.  Let the S***storm continue. My apologies for the interruption and my thanks to Kumar for a dose of rational unemotional reality.

Final thought: If you decide to go legacy, continue to block all updates and only open the door if you need to.  

 

Userlevel 6
Badge +4

Greetings, All (though SONOS probably won’t read this; they’ll all be lying down in darkened rooms or revising their CVs).

Having followed this for a few days of days (has it only been that long?), here are my (final) thoughts. 

I’ve been researching and collating quite a lot recently and this is the repository of my current impressions.  I’ll be posting it in both https://en.community.sonos.com/announcements-228985/end-of-software-support-clarifications-6835969 and https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/the-sonos-brexit-and-a-pragmatic-way-past-it-6836056 .  Apologies if this is long; it’s become complex; but is definitely no rant, just my personal views.

The CEO’s email does nothing to allay my own fears going forward.  I have legacy and ‘modern’ (for now) dumb, (not voice) audio devices within ear-shot of each other.  My only route is to keep my system locked in its present form as they confirm that legacy and modern system areas cannot be grouped in synchrony https://en.community.sonos.com/wireless-speakers-228992/will-i-still-be-able-to-group-new-and-old-products-together-and-receive-updates-on-newer-products-6836043 .  I suspect this is a consequence of the decision that SONOS made in its infancy to have distributed rather than centralized intelligence using a Precision Time Protocol (probably IEEE 1588-2002).  This is worth a read: https://www.sonos.com/en-gb/how-it-started but I expect it’s had consequences as soon as the design philosophy was set; the 65k limit for example and the inability to use anything other than PCM stereo.  SONOS architecture was set with “Any Song. Any Room.”  Frankly anything else has always been a stretch and I suspect this distributed intelligence would preclude the much vaulted request to have a central memory hub handling legacy devices.

SONOS’ recent decision over legacy devices may eventually open up lots of new possibilities, which the user community has been asking for on these pages for many years.  These could include bluetooth, and any number of ‘cinema’ enhancements (DTS or Dolby Atmos), but clearly voice seems to be something of a next step after buying Snips (https://investors.sonos.com/news-and-events/investor-news/latest-news/2019/Sonos-Announces-Acquisition-of-Snips/default.aspx).  In order to make use of this it will have to weather its recent storm.  For the time being SONOS is a cash-wealthy company; I think Snips cost $37M and back in September 2019 they announced a $50M stock buy back programme.  They apparently have $298.5M cash (https://thefly.com/landingPageNews.php?id=2957758&headline=SONO-Sonos-approves-M-share-repurchase-program). SONOS has also been bringing to market a lot of new devices and speakers in recent years.  While most of these are just new versions of old, the line-up has expanded with ‘architectural solutions’ (speakers to you and me) and the Move.  I think this has been long overdue and may have tempted new adopters to multi-room ecosystems to plump for SONOS in comparison to any of the increasing number of alternatives, especially for people with outdoor spaces.  The point here is even new versions or old solutions plus the new devices will have been expensive to develop.  I think SONOS has been wise to expand its line-up.

Among technology journalists, the reaction to SONOS’ decision over legacy devices has been a bit of a shrug, in my opinion.  Lots of “Well, what do you expect from tech?”, “SONOS has been brave in coming clean over this” and “This is probably the first, but not the last time we hear of this”.  In contrast, the user community has been livid.  Within a few hours of the announcement the first forum (https://en.community.sonos.com/announcements-228985/end-of-software-updates-for-legacy-products-6835470) had 1378 replies, 53464 views and reached 56 pages before being closed down for reasons that I cannot fathom, except SONOS didn’t like what they were hearing.  The later one (https://en.community.sonos.com/announcements-228985/end-of-software-support-clarifications-6835969) now stands at roughly 2250 replies, 97,882 views and ~103 pages and counting.  Almost entirely universally the comments are highly critical and damning of the recent decision.  They accuse SONOS of being arrogant and the announcement hastily announced, crude in nature and a slap in the face to those who have spent the most over the longest period and who have probably been the most evangelical about the brand for the longest time to friends and family. 

This loss of trust that very many now feel is precisely because most brand or ecosystem adopters don't (can’t) rush out and fill a house with devices; instead they build systems over many years as needs evolve and funds allow and when an announcement of this magnitude drops into the inbox of the most loyal customers then the consequence is the fury that was unleashed.  While SONOS did hint at this in their Annual Report (https://s22.q4cdn.com/672173472/files/doc_financials/2019/q4/52d86c5b-248f-4939-aa85-1489c1828e7f.pdf#page=17) and they spell out very many risk factors that the company faces; these are both external and internal to the company itself and some are as a result of being a relatively small and niche technology entity where the sector is changing rapidly and dominated by some extremely powerful competitors.  Many of these registered risks are probably familiar to business students through to company Directors however, a most relevant risk here it that: “We may choose to discontinue support for older versions of our products, resulting in customer dissatisfaction that could negatively affect our business and operating results.”  I wonder when the Board was signing off this Report whether they really understood the potential for this risk to bite and whether they have accurately modelled it for financial and reputational impact.  Only they know but, I imagine they have been completely blind-sided by the response.  The evidence is here: https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.sonos.com, with 80% ‘Bad’ reviews out of 910 posted and a TrustScore of 1.3 out of 5.  This is just about as low as it’s possible to get since the lowest post is 1; secondly, that this community topic (https://en.community.sonos.com/announcements-228985/end-of-software-support-clarifications-6835969) and the previously closed one (https://en.community.sonos.com/announcements-228985/end-of-software-updates-for-legacy-products-6835470) are those with the biggest number of replies, by far.  Thirdly, their share price has taken a hit (down ~2%, https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/sono), but this will take some time to work through.  SONOS are expected to post revenue of between $1.365B and $1.4B, roughly 9.5% annual growth (https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/01/05/why-sonos-stock-climbed-128-in-december.aspx) though it will be interesting to know more when they announce their most recent financial results and host a Q&A (https://investors.sonos.com/news-and-events/investor-news/latest-news/2020/Sonos-Announces-Date-for-First-Quarter-2020-Financial-Results-and-Conference-Call/default.aspx).  Lastly, though the journalists are a bit ‘shruggy’ the rest of the web is not. A quick online search reveals all you need to know.

Sadly I think SONOS’ philosophy has been crumbling for quite a while.  Recent and not so recent updates that offer system improvements have often resulted in the opposite in my opinion.  Here are several examples:

1    Upcoming changes to ‘On this iPhone or iPad’ Playback (https://en.community.sonos.com/announcements-228985/upcoming-changes-to-on-this-iphone-or-ipad-playback-6826585) is the third most replied to forum topic and describes the loss of a feature.

2    Updates to the Desktop Controller Coming Soon (https://en.community.sonos.com/announcements-228985/updates-to-the-desktop-controller-coming-soon-6813300) is the fourth most replied to form topic and begins with a long-requested visual update, but most people preferred the blue version it seems.  Importantly though this ‘refresh’ removed:

  • Setting up or transferring a system
  • Adding a player to existing system
  • The ability to bond/unbond players (surrounds, stereo pairs, or adding a Sub).
  • Registering players
  • TV setup for Beam, Playbase, and Playbar,
  • Enabling parental controls
  • Network settings and management
  • Line-in settings
  • Renaming a Room
  • Opting in or out of a beta program
  • Resetting your Sonos account password (you can still do so on a computer via sonos.com)

This turned out to be an attack on many fronts.  Importantly, it requires users to have up to date tablets or phones to do the management of the system, whereas it used to be possible to manage the entirety of the system with the desktop application and allowed older devices to still be used as everyday controllers.  SONOS’ decision here is decidedly anti-ethical and a non-sustainability practise and seemingly against their Responsibility pledge for wider Product Design and Supply Chain (https://www.sonos.com/en-gb/sustainability), but SONOS have never really opened up about this.  Importantly it also prevents users, or installers maintaining systems using Remote Desktop applications, which was nuts.

3    Android Devices no longer able to join SonosNet (https://en.community.sonos.com/announcements-228985/android-devices-no-longer-able-to-join-sonosnet-6825471).  I asked SONOS help about this and their response was two-fold.  Firstly removing the feature, which was little used, apparently (though looking through support revealed a solid fan base) would free up device memory for other purposes.  Also, SONOS sort-of feared it might be related to electronic interference between the network and amplification circuitry.  These are my words but I did have a P5s replaced under warranty for issues around electronic interference, which SONOS said they could not replicate.  At the time it was a fantastic managed-AP though, well if you used Android.

The sad thing is that SONOS seemingly are very closed about their decision making any have never allowed user options.  The system is locked and updates irreversible.  Technically I don’t quite buy this since it is possible to reverse a beta upgrade, so it must be theoretically possible to wind the firmware back.  If I could, I’d probably like to revert to something around the 6.x or 7.x era and if I could fix the volume down ramp I would.

It’s not all doom and gloom as SONOS have introduced a few new features, most recently Amazon music HD though there is confusion about whether it really is HD if it’s called for by Alexa and the company are promising a fix.  Also, the loss then reinstatement of Audible, where the fix took quite a while to be sorted.  And this is the crux of issues into the future.  SONOS has been quite good about telling customers in advance when third party integrations will stop working and have a desire to maintain this, but if you have a legacy device in your system this will stop though when the third party company changes its protocols you will lose functionality and I imagine there won’t be a fix for this. 

Another driver for UK (and VPN) users could be related to the fact that the BBC is due to release a significant update for BBC SOUNDS in 2020 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/help/questions/supported-devices/connected-tv) albeit for smart TVs.  It might just be the case that this also brings the on-demand features of BBC SOUNDS to SONOS and other aggregators and streamers, but presumably not if your system is legacy.  The on-demand content of BBC Radio, music and podcasts now through SOUNDS has been a perennial request to SONOS across many request forums.  By the way if you listen to BBC Radio on your SONOS then look at this: http://steveseear.org/high-quality-bbc-radio-streams/ for advice.  While there’s less meta-data available I find these streams more reliable than from the aggregators.  I used to use minimserver (https://minimserver.com/) to handle this, but now access the BBC streams directly.

Final issues: ~7W on ‘standby’ isn’t really acceptable anymore.  It might have been fine when lightbulbs were 60-100W but we can now light a house for the electrical cost of SONOS on standby, but this isn’t a rant!

So where does this leave us all?  SONOS are definitely in a flat spin about all this, or should be.  It’s highly unusual for the CEO to apologise about the way they handled a situation, but they are seemingly staying firm.  As mentioned above if I cannot group modern and legacy then all my system will remain legacy and I’ll probably ditch SONOS, which will be a pity.  A lot will depend on the situation between now and May and also what happens to the company and its customer relations and financial (sales) situation.  At worst I may keep some small areas of SONOS but expect something else to largely take over and the system to be relegated.  I bought into “The smart home sound system.” And SONOS’ “Our DNA – The connected home.” (https://www.sonos.com/en-gb/our-company)  This has to be one system, not two and trading up with a 30% discount when prices were recently raised makes me look the fool.  What this exactly means will depend on imagined future habits and where the software and hardware platforms go, plus what happens to various streaming services.  I don’t think it’ll be BOSE, more likely Yamaha for their integrated amp setup, plus standalone speakers, or something bespoke.  There world is moving very fast!  Will see…, but I will be extremely hesitant and cautious about recommending the SONOS platform to anyone in the future.  The brand has sadly lost my trust, but I understand that everyone is free to make their own decisions. 

Anyway, I hope this post might help you be better informed so you can make your choices.

Cheers, All and well done for reading this far.  Remember, it is only stuff!

Good idea for a thread, @Kumar - I can understand why people are so upset, but I don’t think that Sonos are going to make any major concessions because of all this sound and fury.

I have been running a locked down system (mostly, also locked off from the internet) for a while now and it works fine simply for playing music from a NAS. If I want to listen to the radio side, then I can open it up to the internet again - but I usually keep it locked off.

I’m currently listening to a Play 5 fed via the line in by a Chromecast Audio. This cost me £30. Using Hifi cast I can stream music from a music server on a NAS, listen to radio stations via Shoutcast radio and even listen to 24 bit files (if anyone’s interested) - it also supports streaming from a local device (e.g. phone). It also completely removes the 65,000 track limit and issues regarding the amount of store used. It makes the Port look massively overpriced, IMHO.

Once the signal is in the Sonos environment, it can be used the same as any other line in - e.g. grouped with other speakers, used as the input for another Sonos speaker etc. 

I intend to use my speakers/devices until they break - and then I’ll probably buy a decent speaker with a line-in to replace them, using whatever cheap-ish streamer works best for me at that time. Luckily for me, I’ve never been interested in having the same thing playing throughout the house (e.g. party mode), so as long as I can listen to  my music wherever I want to, I’ll be happy.

I am attaching a photo of my dining space zone to show that the approach I have promoted here need not look like a kludge. It also shows how to keep old products doing what they have been built to do, deliver music. 

The Quads were bought in 2002, Sonos in 2012, and Echo Show 5 in 2019. Working very well together even so. When I group this zone with others, or when I want to have local music on the NAS to be the source, I use the Sonos app and forego artwork display on the Echo; when only this zone is used for streaming sources, I use the Echo via voice or phone commands, and it shows album art all the time. And where You Tube premium is the service, the videos.The Echo Show wall paper is my tribute to quality vinyl, which just became too much effort to keep using, and got sold to someone that still uses it.

I refuse therefore to consign this brilliant Connect Amp to any landfill as long as it can amplify source signals. Also for the reason that even today it is not easy to find an equally capable HiFi amplifier that can sit in its footprint, delivering equally reliable and distortion free amplification, from an always on, always in standby mode, effortlessly. Other than the Sonos Amp. But I do not need its higher power, and it will do nothin for me that is more than what the Connect Amp already does so well. Even after whatever upgrades Sonos may provide the new amp with after May 2020, if I was to dump the Connect Amp. Why then should I, and add my bit to global waste? Even if I could afford to do this?

 

Userlevel 7
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Hi everyone, good discussion so far!

We will be official sharing more information in May, and until then, while I’m happy to provide some answers, things may change. I don’t want to give you incorrect information that you use to make big decisions on, and then have something change and make that incorrect.

@Ralpfocus once devices switch over to legacy software, you’ll still be able to add new devices that currently exist. In the future, when new Sonos products start coming out, their software will not likely be compatible with legacy builds, and also, legacy software won’t know what they are to be able to add them. That said, if you want to add a new Play:5 gen1 or gen2 to your legacy system a few months later, that should be doable. When they go to update, they’ll get the right software version for the legacy system. But again, more on this will come in May.

 

The scenario  - As I have legacy products that I wish to retain in May and some modern products that I want to continue to work with the legacy products I put my system into legacy mode.

The questions are

Can I expect to be able to add any of the existing product set to a legacy environment. Irrespective of the release of software/firmware that the product is manufactured with or for that matter the date it is manufactured?

Since Sonos are committed to supporting a product for at least 5 years after end of manufacture is the legacy environment effectively good for at least 5 years after the demise of the last of the current product set?    (Subject to changes in streaming services APIs)

Even if Sonos bring out a new product for which they they cannot or will not create a legacy date software/firmware version will all other current (April 2020) products still be able to join a Legacy environment?

If in another n (lets be optimistic 10) years I find that my legacy components (which will probably have increased by then) have all reached the end of their useful life will it be simple to come out of legacy mode?

Is it realistic to have the expectation that Sonos will attempt to make changes to the legacy streaming APIs if required?

The understanding is that any new features made available over the next few years may not be available in a legacy environment.

Given that Ryan and co will be snowed in, my attempt at responses:

  1. If by existing you mean existing with you just now, or what you will buy till May - yes.
  2. No, because for such products that have been identified as legacy, 5 years have passed.
  3. Yes, as long as these are added before getting updated in some way to a post legacy version. There is some confusion around this, with some contradicting this by suggesting that the version can be rolled back to enable them to also join.
  4. Yes, but only with such products that can be brought to the level of the software then prevailing.
  5. Yes, because the word “attempt” can mean anything. I suppose they will do this as long as there is the memory for this and as long as it isn't too much of a hassle. Plus, this will go in a queue and may not get the best treatment there. Prepare to either then switch services, or resort to the Line In jacks.
  6. Instead of the words “may not” say “will not”. And there are no legitimate grounds to complain about that, IMO.

These are pretty much correct, though I’d have phrased some of the answers differently. I think my comment above will help clarify some of the answers too. 

  

I prefer the legacy devices like the ZP100/ZP120/Connect Amp for their design.and was curious if they block the ability to add those down the road.

I have not seen this to be said anywhere. Only a Connect Amp made after 2015, once it gets to a version after the legacy version, cannot be added. Of course, it should not have been bricked for recycling for a 30% claim.

So if you have a legacy system mode operating, and you want to add one of the above that are at or before that system version, the dedicated to legacy system app that is promised will allow you to add these products to the legacy system. At any time in the future.

@Ryan S / @Edward R - to please object if I am wrong.

You’ll continue to be able to add ZP100/ZP120/Connect:Amp devices on legacy software (assuming those devices haven’t been recycled through the trade up). Even the Connect:Amp that are 2015 devices will be able to add in on modern software. There may be a point in time in the future where a software build for a modern Connect:Amp can’t be added to legacy, but I can’t speak to that specifically, just saying it’s a possibility at some point. 

Split system warning!

I wrote this on another thread just now and am copying that here, because the warning is very relevant here as well:

Split systems sound good in theory, but will rapidly become very tiresome to operate. I don't see anyone use these for long. The problem is that then the only option will be to go to one system with modern products, and dump the legacy products. Because the modern products won't make it back to any unified system that has legacy products in it.

One therefore needs to be very careful in opting for splits. I anticipate that many won’t, discover this truth too late, and then there will be another firestorm like this one.

PS:In that thread I was advised that I may be jumping the gun; before being given that advice, I had already flagged my response to @Ryan S  for confirmation in the thread where I posted the above. If he disagrees with any of the above - I will post my eating of the above words on this thread.

I may be misreading you, but if you decide to split your system, and after a little while have a change of heart, you will still be able to move the modern devices down to the legacy build. This may not always be an option, but I don’t have enough certainty on all of those details and what might change, so we’ll go with “more to come in May.” My personal recommendation (depending on what your legacy to modern device ratio looks like) would be to move everything (including modern devices) to the legacy build for a while. Your system will continue to function as it has and if at some point in the future something stops working, or there’s a new feature that you really want to enjoy, you can look at your options then. Trade Up isn’t going anywhere, it’s an ongoing offer currently with no end date. 

 

And @User933635, we do read every single comment posted on the community and share with the right teams. Thanks for taking the time to prepare such as statement. 

So now, a call to @ratty @buzz  and @Majik, Jedi masters of the Sonos galaxy, to step in whenever they can, in any way they can, in response to any post, in furtherance of the objectives of the thread that the title tries to capture. What ever you can do or are still willing to, will have an impact. 

Kumar,

Whilst I appreciate the shout-out, I certainly don’t consider myself to be any sort of “Jedi master” of Sonos. In fact I would probably say that, in recent years, I’ve grown a bit out of touch with the newer kit and the kit I have does what I need it to do (at least for the moment).

So, in conjunction with a waning interest in ”dabbling” with my system, the fact that I’m no longer a moderator (thank goodness), changes I made to my online habits a few years ago, and some changes in my working life I no longer feel the need to keep abreast of the latest and greatest in the Sonos world, including the forum chatter, angry mobs, and management fumbles.

If I was still a moderator during the current “fun” I’m really not sure how we would handle it. At the end of the day we didn’t want to censor opinions but, on the other hand, we wanted people to keep conversations reasonably civilised and, ideally rational and objective.

Unfortunately, the mishandling of this situation by Sonos seems to have raised a pitchfork mob, which almost certainly includes people who are wholly ignorant of the situation, but who have been given a whiff of blood and encouraged to “pile in” by sensationalist reporting in the gutter tech press (yes, Verge, I’m looking at you).

I recall this happening before but in much lower profile ways and at a point when Sonos was a much smaller animal, so the often-feigned bile and outrage directed into the forums was manageable.

I’ve not read the threads and probably won’t. But I guarantee there’s people in them who have joined the forum just to take shots at Sonos, and a good proportion of them won’t be Sonos users. Many of those people will have gone through several iterations of iPhone in as many years. #justsayin

That isn’t to say that people don’t have a point. This was really badly handled. I’m not going to speculate on the reasons behind it or whether they’ve could have done it a better way, etc. because I don’t feel qualified to.

As to what is the solution for those with mixed networks? Well I intend to continue to use my 2005-era ZP100’s (and other legacy) alongside some newer equipment I have just as I always have. As long as it largely continues to do what it does today, I really don’t care that much about new features.

I do care about streaming services, although the majority of my Sonos purchases were originally made based on streaming from my home server, and I don’t see that going away. Will there be services that I can’t access? Probably. Do I care? As long as there are some mainstream streaming services which still work for me, or if I can cast in some way, I’m not that bothered.

If it really comes to it I will split my network into two. That’s not ideal, but it will work for me.

If Sonos were to develop the app so you could easily switch between legacy and new installations, I would be happy with that.

To be honest, many of the ZPs in my network rarely get used these days. At some point I may upgrade one or two of my zones to newer kit, but I don’t feel compelled to do so at the moment. The zones where I do most of my listening have the newer devices already.

YMMV

Cheers,

Keith

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here’s a post on another thread where I described for under  £35 per play:5 you can have groups and stereo paired speakers using chromecast ...

“ok, so here’s a thing. take a gen 3 chromecast (£25), add an hdmi splitter (£8) , plug chromecast into splitter, plug audio cable from splitter into sonos play:5 , turn on autoplay 

You can now cast to the chromecast, and play music on the speakers. You can also add each chromecast to a speaker group .

And with a little bit of lateral thinking you can cut the audio cable to each speaker to have only L and R wires active, so you have a stereo pair

So, for just over £30 you can “fix” your sonos 5 speakers to use the latest streaming tech. 

Which begs the question - why can’t sonos produce such a device and keep the play:5 speakers working indefinitely - after all the “puck” wouldn’t cost *that* much to make. If they were to offer this at cost, I’m sure that most Sonos owners would be delighted at the forward-thinking and customer support of this premium brand and not the PR disaster it has become.

I have been responsible for my family purchasing 10k+ of sonos gear. I will not be doing so going forwards, and neither will they. Such a shame”

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Many thanks Kumar for starting this thread.

Like others on here, I locked down to 8.4 in order to continue using my 3x CR100s - they still work a treat by the way and are in daily use.

Thus, I am perhaps not best placed to advise those who are in this unfortunate situation as to the ways forward but If it helps at all, I can confirm that after nearly 2 years, Napster and Google Play Music (the only streaming services I use) still work perfectly. Others on 8.4 have confirmed that the likes of Spotify and Amazon also still work so the hope is for those that remain in legacy mode that this will continue for some time yet.

Aside from a couple of Play:1s, all my kit is legacy so in my case, I have two choices:

  1. Open my system up to Sonos and allow new software updates (but lose my CR100s), then come May remain on legacy and just hope that Sonos sticks to its word and continues to provide bug fixes and updates to allow continuous access to streaming services if Napster etc. change any of their protocols.
  2. Stay as I am and see what happens

Option 2 is my preferred course at the moment but I am stuck if Napster changes anything….

As a geeky type, I am interested in looking at the PI solutions.

There was a user here several months ago who was beta testing some PI box that they had put together to achieve some solution. I can’t remember who or what it was and the forum search is of no help…..

But I’m sure that if someone made such a box that was maintained by an open source community, that could stream from all the well known music services and then present itself to Sonos as a music source, people would buy in to that.

Finally, I suppose if I was in the situation that pretty much everyone else here seems to be in (that is, they have a mixture of modern and legacy), then my plan moving forward would to be to stay in legacy mode until streaming broke or some killer feature came along that I couldn’t live without. 

I have to say that in nearly 2 years at 8.4, I have never seen a new feature that has even slightly tempted me to move forward…….

 

 

 

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I have concerns about “they’re just music boxes and will continue to do what they do now”. They’ll probably play from your NAS forever, and most Internet radio will probably be fine too. However, Spotify, Amazon, Deezer etc could, at any time, make a change which Sonos will not deliver to legacy systems (either because they don’t want to, or because the legacy devices can’t properly support it).

I also have problems with Sonos stance here - if a legacy device can’t actually stream (say) Spotify, then fair enough - but it should be possible to use it as a fully supported, updated and working “extra speaker” for another (modern) Sonos device. But that’s not being offered right now.

Whilst I think they should be offering that as a way out, it actually won’t help me on this occasion (although might do when my Play:1s go legacy in the future).

I have a legacy Connect:Amp is currently connected to 4 ceiling speakers in the kitchen. It works fine, but it’s not great at higher volumes and it lacks sub (ceiling speakers struggle to do sub, and mine aren’t the best in that area either).

My plan is currently:

  • Buy a Yamaha connected amp to replace the Connect:Amp. A similar spec device comes in at half the list price of the new Sonos Amp.
  • Eval Yamaha as a competitor (they seem to review about the same, although their phone app doesn’t review very well)
  • Probably use the trade-in to buy a Port, and use that as the sound source for the Yamaha amp (unless Yamaha turn out to be awesome).

This means:

  • We keep “sonos everywhere” and multi-room etc. Ultimately, nothing really changes.
  • I get to properly eval Yamaha, and they get time to support Amazon Music (which they say they’re working on).
  • If Sonos pull any more of this sort of stuff, then I can switch any other devices to Yamaha quite easily, yanking out any Sonos which is then legacy, and keep multi-room in the process.
  • Potentially stick a sub in the kitchen using the sub-out of the Yamaha amp (which incidentally, I could do with the new Sonos Amp too)

So in short, I’m not going to ditch Sonos entirely, in fact, I’m not really leaving at all. But I’m very much going to insulate myself from any future foul-ups, or indeed an entire implosion at Sonos (if by some miracle what’s going on right now doesn’t turn out to be a “Gerald Ratner”).

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Sonos has stated that updates will be blocked automatically if you have a legacy product in your system.   But if you don’t trust that, or want to stay on the Legacy version even when you don’t have any legacy products, then I guess blocking  updates is a good option.

 

 

 

Actually, the CEO said that legacy software will receive bug fixes and security updates, but no upgrade to new functions.  A huge step, because that means they forked their software, and the man hours needed to maintain both of them means a significant expense increase for Sonos.  An increase they were obviously looking to avoid.

 


This is fine for me.  A Fork was inevitable and they should have done it at 8.4.  I will take this opportunity to purchase some spare hardware and get it all on the same version and lock it down again.

Long Live Legacy Sonos! 

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Agreed.  It still drives me crazy that I cant flash my system with my chosen version.  This would be the appropriate time for SONOS to release a tool to give us some version control back. They no longer want to support the devices so we will do it ourselves and dump them in the recycle bin when we are finished with them. Apparently we may own the hardware, not the software, they refuse to relinquish software version control to the end user.

Sorry for the rant Kumar. 

It will all work itself out, one way or another, my SONOS system isnt done yet.

How about a non-legacy Connect connected to a legacy connect via the RCA jacks. One as part of the legacy system and one on the non-legacy system?

You’d have to group the legacy gear to the legacy Connect using a controller on the legacy side but then you could do everything else from the non-legacy side as long as the legacy Connect was grouped with what you are listening to.

With all the screaming I’m going to be watching for used gear at fire-sale prices and may well snap something up for the few places I don’t have Sonos now.

Excellent lateral thinking there; unfortunately the music from the two systems so grouped will be out of sync. And when grouping isn't a need, faffing around with two systems in one household will get irritating over time. Which is why I think that any two systems idea is not a viable solution; it negates the  multiroom concept which is a major Sonos USP. As to buying used gear, another excellent idea, provided you know how to avoid getting devices marked for recycling.

@Loose Moose : Sonos has said that legacy system capability to work with local NAS will not degrade over time; it will only end when the hardware fails. Based on that it is reasonable to assume that capability to accept inputs to the line in jacks will also continue to work as now, without degradation.

@Snikom : With reference to your comment: My current plan is to run as legacy for as long as possible and then use the line to one of my play 5’s for any music over the internet when services start to fail. - that is exactly what I plan to do, and I see no reason for this to not work. For your play 5, replace my Connect/Connect Amps, that’s all.

Thank heavens for the line in jacks and the happy coincidence that the three legacy units being left behind all have these, to allow them an anchor into the real world. Now, if the play 1 units had been the first to go...I even have a topic here that I started a couple of years ago on how useful line in jacks are and why the play 1 missed being a truly great product because it lacks these. And that was way before this event.

At this time, my only concern after May will be to ensure that I don’t inadvertently wreck my 6 zone system by letting an update to the play 1 units slip through. Indeed, I would now be happy if my play 1 units also join the legacy list, so I don't have to worry about that happening because my legacy units happened to be powered off; all would be legacy.

@chickentender :Of course we have options and more may emerge by May - both short term ones and those that can be longer term ones to ensure we are not bitten again.

Moving on: I see a subtle but significant change in the Sonos messaging, forced by the firestorm. The first announcement essentially said that those that don’t want to stay with Sonos by jettisoning legacy products, can choose to not stay, but with a system that will degrade over time where streaming service functionality is concerned, even where said system contains modern products.

Now the messages coming out proclaim that things are not as dire as that for those that choose to stay back - Sonos will do all it possibly can by providing us with bug fixes, and even updates necessary to maintain streaming service functionality, to the extent permitted by the memory available in legacy devices. Even with that last qualification, this is progress:-). The proof of the pudding will be in the eating of course, but the statement of intent is a welcome first step.

One can now keep hoping that more adverse reactions will lead to the next step - that for those that stay back, modern products in legacy systems will keep marching ahead, albeit with features that will not be available to the legacy products - but grouped multi room play across the entire system will be possible. If Sonos were to find a way to get to this place, there will be no legitimate reason for any complaints.

A case then, for the protests to continue; outside of this thread though:-).

@Ryan S  Want to make some friends out of this?  When the dev’s reinvent the Legacy Version, bring back the full featured Desktop controller.  One of SONOS earlier debacles.

 

The play 1 is still sold by Sonos and Ryan still states that Sonos will support products for at least 5 years after they stop selling them. So here's hoping they stick to that. 

 

It is no longer as simple as that, going by what happened with the Connect Amp - although this was sold by Sonos till 2019, they are pulling support on those made in 2015 and before that saying that these have a much smaller memory than the ones made after, so the earlier ones, though carrying the same name and looks, will no longer get support.

My concern is something similar happening for my 2014 make play 1 units with their relatively very small memory of 64 mb. And I don’t see the play 1 on the Sonos products listed on their website and I think they stopped selling those in 2019 as well. So if they do the same thing they did for my Connect Amp, there go my four play 1 units.

Hence the concern. Once bitten, twice shy.

@Ryan S I don't think I am alone in commending both @Edward R and you for your significant contributions towards what might be considered to be an anti Sonos thread. If Sonos leadership had the same care and respect for the installed base, this thread would not have been necessary, and the firestorm a lot less in intensity. Kudos, and thank you.

And congratulations to every one here for keeping the thread on topic, and both rant and profanity free. No minor achievement, that. There is nothing we can do stop it from becoming long, then repetitive and thus unwieldy. I can’t see any way around that, but what can be done, is being done.

And here is a copy paste of another tweet from him, that does not take us forward, so I had not posted it.

But, since you ask: The parade of people that just can't be bothered to read/think just continues for Sonos. Sonos started this dumpster fire with poor customer empathy and coms, but the meme just lives on.

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Kumar, this is the best thread yet since the announcements. Thanks for stepping out, brother. 

Respect.

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@Ryan Syou have quoted variations of  “We haven’t shared all of the details of how the current legacy process is happening. Let’s get through May first before….” a number of times now. It looks like that there may quite a large amount of information released in May (and hopefully some significant changes to the proposed course of action :relaxed: ) plus new releases of software.

I am concerned that there may be a very limited amount of time to decide upon a pragmatic way forward before software is released that accidentally and Irrevocably changes ones environment. By accidentally I mean scenarios such as friends or family coming round with the latest version of the app (maybe they only have modern kit) on their phone and (helpfully) forcing an update of the system. Can Sonos confirm that customers will have time to decide what to do and that there will be safeguards to prevent an accidental action or methods that enable customers to switch between the options?

 


In so many different variations, this. @Ryan S You keep suggesting that all important details will come in May -- not earlier? Could you confirm that Sonos does not anticipate being able to provide further details on the Legacy option in the near-term?

At best, I can confirm that’s currently the plan I have to share. But if information does become available sooner, I’ll be sure to let you all know.

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Could you post a link to the reference document for blocking updates? The one link I can find is broken.. Much appreciateed

 

I have a PDF of it:

Sonos System Lockdown Procedures (To Prevent CR100 Controllers from Being Bricked)

Revision 2 – 27/Mar/2018

Step 1 : Update Sonos System to v8.4

This guide assumes that you have updated your Sonos system and ALL of your controllers/apps to the latest version that does not brick your CR100 controllers, i.e. v8.4.

Please note that currently there are no instructions for the Amazon store or the Amazon Fire tablets as I don’t have access to them. If someone can put together some instructions, then I’ll happily incorporate them here.

Important Note v8.4 : Updating your system to v8.4 forces a message to be displayed on CR100 controllers warning of their upcoming demise. It has been reported that this message is set to only appear five times, however at present no‐one knows if this message sequence is then repeated in the future. However, if you missed updating your entire system to v8.3.1/8.3.2, or have a system whose components are at different versions and you’re being prompted to update, then your only choice is to update to the current v8.4 – but you need to do this before Sonos releases the next version (end March 2018?).

Step 2 : Backup Sonos "Legacy" Programs/Apps
Do this before the end of March 2018. Sometime in April 2018 Sonos will be updating the Sonos

programs/apps with versions that, if installed, will brick your CR100 controllers.

Follow the procedures below to obtain offline copies of all the 8.4 installation programs/apps necessary to be able to reinstall them on your computers and portable devices any time in the future, independent of what's available at that time from Sonos or the app stores.

Windows Desktop v8.4 (must be done before end March 2018)

Download the desktop program from:

https://www.sonos.com/redir/controller_software_pc

Mac Desktop v8.4 (must be done before end March 2018)

Download the desktop program from:

https://www.sonos.com/redir/controller_software_mac

‐1‐

  

Apple iOS Sonos v8.4 (must be done before end March 2018)

There are two ways of doing this. If you have iTunes 12.7 or later installed, then you can no longer use iTunes to manage apps. If you wish to continue using iTunes 12.7 or later then you will need to use the second method. The first method involves downgrading iTunes so that you get its app management features back again.

METHOD 1 : iTunes v12.6.3 or earlier
If you have iTunes v12.7 or later installed then downgrade iTunes to v12.6.3 (instructions to do this

can be found here : http://www.valuewalk.com/2017/10/downgrade‐itunes‐12‐6‐3/).

  1. Start iTunes and select "Apps" from the content list dropdown at the top‐left.

  2. Log in using your Apple ID as necessary (via the Account menu).

  3. Click on "App Store" (top‐middle of screen).

  4. Search for the Sonos app.

  5. Click on the "Download" button below the Sonos app and wait for the download to complete.

  6. Verify that the Sonos app is now in your library by clicking on "Library" (top middle of screen).

    The icon for the Sonos app should be shown in your app library that is now on screen.

  7. Close iTunes.

  8. Start Finder (Mac) or Windows Explorer (Win).

  9. Copy the Sonos app package "Sonos 8.4.ipa" to a safe backup location from the following

    iTunes library location:
    Mac : [User]/Music/iTunes/Mobile Applications
    Windows : [DRIVE]:\Users\[User]\Music\iTunes\iTunes Media\Mobile Applications

Important: note that all "ipa" files are uniquely tied to the Apple ID that downloaded them. If you use multiple Apple IDs in your household then repeat steps 3 to 9 above for each Apple ID, giving a unique name to each backup "Sonos 8.4.ipa" file so that you will know which file relates to which Apple ID.

METHOD 2 : iTunes v12.7 or later

iTunes v12.7 or later no longer allows you to manage apps. As such we will use a third‐party program to download the Sonos app.

  1. Download and install the FREE version of iMazing from https://imazing.com/. The free version allows you to backup and restore individual apps.

  2. Connect your iOS device to your computer (USB) and start iMazing. iMazing should detect your iOS device and display details about it.

  3. Left‐click on your device in the "AVAILABLE" list on the left.

  4. You should now see options appear to the right such as "Back Up", Restore a Backup" etc.

    Left‐click on "Manage Apps" from this list.

  5. Sign In to your Apple account, using your Apple ID, by clicking on the "Sign In" button at the

    top‐right of the window.

  6. In the Manage Apps window, select the Library tab.

  7. Scroll down the list until you find the Sonos 8.4 app. If it is not there, then you'll need to add

   

to your library as follows:

‐2‐

  1. Click on the "Add from App Store" button.

  2. Type "Sonos" in the search box.

  3. Click on the download icon to the right of the "Sonos Controller" v8.4 app.

  4. When the download is complete press the Done button. The Sonos v8.4 app should now

    be shown in your library.

8. You can now either:
a. Copy the Sonos app package "Sonos 8.4.ipa" to a safe backup location from the following

iTunes library location:
Mac : [User]/Music/iTunes/Mobile Applications
Windows : [DRIVE]:\Users\[User]\Music\iTunes\iTunes Media\Mobile Applications

OR, while you're still in iMazing:

  1. Right‐click on the Sonos app in the Library list and select "Export .IPA"

  2. A dialog box will pop up for you to select which folder you want the file saved to. Once

    you have selected the folder, click the OK button.

  3. The program will now have saved the Sonos 8.4 installation file in that folder, named

    "Sonos 8.4.ipa"

Important: note that all "ipa" files are uniquely tied to the Apple ID that downloaded them. If you use multiple Apple IDs in your household then repeat steps 3 to 9 above for each Apple ID, giving a unique name to each backup "Sonos 8.4.ipa" file so that you will know which file relates to which Apple ID.

Google Play (Android) Sonos v8.4

  1. Simply download the Sonos Controller v8.4 for Android from here:

    https://www.apkmirror.com/apk/sonos‐inc/

  2. Then you may optionally block the Sonos app from being automatically updated as follows:

(thanks to stevecomp3 on the Sonos forums for pointing this out)

  1. Open the Google Play store.

  2. Press the three bars at the top left, then select “My Apps & Games.”

  3. Press on “INSTALLED” tab and you’ll be taken to a list of your installed apps.

  4. Scroll down the list until you find “Sonos Controller for Android”. Press on this app,

    being careful to NOT press on the UPDATE that may be to the right of it.

  5. This will bring you to the apps’ store page. When here, press the three dots at the top

    right of the app’s page and untick the box that says “Auto‐Update.”

    ‐3‐

 

3. Alternatively, you can stop ALL apps from automatically updating as follows:

  1. Open the Google Play store.

  2. Press the three bars at the top left, then select “Settings”

  3. You’ll have a selection of options. Press the one that says “Auto‐update Apps” – it

    should be near the top of the Settings options.

  4. You’ll now be presented with a selection of different options for auto‐updating apps.

    The options listed will depend upon various factors but may include to have auto‐ updates run as normal, disable them, or have apps auto‐update only when you’re on WiFi. Select “Do not auto‐update apps”.

Step 3 : Block Sonos System from Updates (and optionally from the Internet)

  1. Within the Sonos app (Android & iOS), select the option to NOT automatically check for updates.

  2. [Android Only] Block the Sonos app from auto updating:

    1. Open the Play Store App

    2. hile you can shut down ALL updates, you can also find the specific installed app (in this case Sonos) and using the menu icon in the upper right corner you can elect to disable the auto‐Update ONLY the specific program.

  3. Set any desktop versions you have installed to also NOT automatically check for updates.

  4. On your router do the following:

    1. Block TCP port 4444 (typically under Firewall settings)

    2. Block access to the following two URLs (typically under Firewall settings):

      update.sonos.com

      update‐firmware.sonos.com

    3. Block internet access for ALL of your Sonos hardware [optional].
      On my router I can do this under Parental Controls Time Scheduling and can block the MAC address for all of my Sonos gear from accessing the internet 24 hours a day. This does mean that you'll lose access to all streaming and internet radio services via your Sonos system. Not doing this means that you'll be completely reliant on the above blocked port and blocked URL to protect you from updates.

      ‐4‐

 

With the above protections in place, this should mean that even if an updated Sonos app tried to connect to the system, then all that would happen is that it would report that the system needs to be updated but that it is unable to do so.

‐5‐

How to Install “Legacy” Sonos Apps on iOS and Android

To install your saved “legacy” Sonos apps on new iOS or Android devices at any time in the future then follow these instructions. Note that the success of this is dependent on the “legacy” Sonos apps still being able to work with whatever version of iOS or Android that is on your device at that time.

Apple iOS

There are two ways of doing this. If you have iTunes 12.7 or later installed, then you can no longer use iTunes to manage apps. If you wish to continue using iTunes 12.7 or later then you will need to use the second method. The first method involves downgrading iTunes so that you get its app management features back again.

METHOD 1 : iTunes v12.6.3 or earlier
If you have iTunes v12.7 or later installed then downgrade iTunes to v12.6.3 (instructions to do this

can be found here : http://www.valuewalk.com/2017/10/downgrade‐itunes‐12‐6‐3/).

  1. Using Windows Explorer (Win) or Finder (Mac) copy the Sonos app package "Sonos 8.4.ipa" to your iTunes library location:

    Mac : [User]/Music/iTunes/Mobile Applications

    Windows : [DRIVE]:\Users\[User]\Music\iTunes\iTunes Media\Mobile Applications

  2. Start iTunes and select "Apps" from the content list dropdown at the top‐left.

  3. Click on the "Library" tab (top middle of screen).

  4. Add the “legacy” Sonos app to your library as follows:

    1. From the iTunes menu, select File > Add File to Library...

    2. In the “Add To Library” dialog box, navigate to your iTunes library folder (above) and

      select the “Sonos 8.4.ipa” file that you copied there in step 1.

    3. Click on the Open button. The Sonos app icon should now appear amongst your other

      library app icons.

  5. Connect your iOS device to your computer and wait for it to be recognised by iTunes.

  6. Select your iOS device in iTunes by clicking on the small tablet icon to the right of the content

    dropdown list

  7. Click on “Apps” in the listing on the left

    ‐6‐

   

  1. In the listing of apps that appears, scroll down as necessary and click on the Sonos Controller app to highlight it.

  2. Click on the Sonos Controller “Install” button. The button will now change to show “Will Install”.

  3. Click on the “Apply” button at the bottom right of iTunes. This will force a Sync of your device and will install the “legacy” Sonos Controller app onto it. Be patient, this can take several minutes to complete.

  4. On your iOS device, start the Sonos Controller and when prompted, select “Connect to an existing system”.

METHOD 2 : iTunes v12.7 or later

iTunes v12.7 or later no longer allows you to manage apps. As such we will use a third‐party program to install the Sonos app.

  1. Download and install the FREE version of iMazing from https://imazing.com/. The free version allows you to backup and restore individual apps.

  2. Connect your iOS device to your computer (USB) and start iMazing. iMazing should detect your iOS device and display details about it.

  3. Left‐click on your device in the "AVAILABLE" list on the left.

  4. You should now see options appear to the right such as "Back Up", Restore a Backup" etc.

    Left‐click on "Manage Apps" from this list.

  5. Sign In to your Apple account, using your Apple ID, by clicking on the "Sign In" button at the

    top‐right of the window.

  6. In the Manage Apps window, select the “Device” tab.

  7. Right‐click anywhere below the tabs names, and select "Install .IPA File" from the pop‐up

    menu.

  8. In the Open dialog box, navigate to the previously saved "Sonos 8.4.ipa" file and click on the

    Open button. Ensure that the Sonos file that you select is the one associated with the Apple ID

    you just signed in with.

  9. The “legacy” Sonos Controller app will now be installed on your device. Be patient, this can

    take several minutes to complete.

  10. On your iOS device, start the Sonos Controller and when prompted, select “Connect to an

  

existing system”.

‐7‐

Android

By default, Android’s security is setup to not allow apps to be installed from unknown sources. In our case, trying to install the Sonos “apk” file that you downloaded earlier is an “unknown source”. So, we need to temporarily adjust your devices security settings to allow the “legacy” Sonos app to be installed.

  1. System Settings > Security > Unknown sources.

  2. Select this option to install apps outside of the Google Play store. Depending on your device,

    you can also choose to be warned before installing harmful apps. This can be enabled by selecting the “Verify apps” option in the Security settings.

  3. Connect your Android device to your computer and enable USB mass‐storage or say Yes to using USB for file transfer (depends on your device and Android version).

    1. Using Windows Explorer (Win) or Finder (Mac) copy the “legacy” Sonos app package "com.sonos.acr_8.4‐410350131_minAPI18(armeabi)(nodpi)_apkmirror.com" to the “Download” folder of your Android device.

    2. Using a File Manager app on your Android device, navigate to the “Download” folder and select the "com.sonos.acr_8.4‐410350131_minAPI18(armeabi)(nodpi)_apkmirror.com" file.

  1. Tap on “Install” when prompted.

  2. When the installation is complete you can now safely delete the Sonos apk file from your

    devices Download folder as well as change your security settings back to NOT install from

    Unknown sources.

  3. Start the Sonos Controller and when prompted, select “Connect to an existing system”.

‐8‐

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Could you post a link to the reference document for blocking updates? The one link I can find is broken.. Much appreciateed

 

 

How is blocking Sonos updates a better option than remaining on the Sonos Legacy version?  I’m not seeing the advantage there.


It is not better at this point.  It will probably be necessary to get on the Legacy Software. But I prefer to have control over when I get the Sonos updates.  I want to update on my terms and not when company comes over and accidently hits the update button. There is NO GOING BACK to 8.4.  Maybe this options iwll be available with Legacy Software.

Blocking the update at 8.4 was necessary for me to continue to use the system as I was with the CR-100 controller.  I rarely use it but it’s a museum piece for me, nostalgia, like a turntable.

 

Sonos has stated that updates will be blocked automatically if you have a legacy product in your system.   But if you don’t trust that, or want to stay on the Legacy version even when you don’t have any legacy products, then I guess blocking  updates is a good option.

 

 

 

Actually, the CEO said that legacy software will receive bug fixes and security updates, but no upgrade to new functions.  A huge step, because that means they forked their software, and the man hours needed to maintain both of them means a significant expense increase for Sonos.  An increase they were obviously looking to avoid.

 

“controllers” -- do I have to do something to prevent them from getting updated in some way that will bork their compatibility with my “Legacy” system?

My own thoughts here are that the legacy system will 'likely' get its own Controller App ...and there will be a separate one for the modern setup … that would simplify things for the user. That way, there will be no need to 'lock the door’ to your system either and why would you want to? ... if Sonos stick with the public annoucement that they plan to release security updates and adjustments to keep the legacy system, current (legacy compatible) devices and services up and running for the foreseeable (long term) future.

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with google home you can group the speakers together and they are synced - one of the powerful features of  sonos .. but using chromecast instead. Completely bypasses the need for the sonos app or wifi / network etc as the CC does all the heavy lifting.

And of course, it’s relatively future proof. As long as sonos allow us to use the line in ;) , then you can upgrade the chromecast for £30 whenever you want

Yes, we do love current functionality and want it to be preserved in Legacy.

Two items on wish-list for legacy version:

1 Fix: Exit SMB1 protocol (long ago identified as not secure) to SMB2/3 for NAS.  Really need that fix.

 

If they were able to fit the new Linux kernel required for SMB v2 support into the legacy device’s 32 MB, don’t you think they would have done it by now?