The Sonos Brexit and pragmatic ways past it

K

I will start this thread with a few caveats:

First, this thread is not for rants. There are plenty here for those, and there is no bar on opening new ones.

Second, the thread is directed for the subset of users that have a large investment in legacy products, and are content to see their Sonos systems as music systems that offer stable streamed music from either a NAS or from the net, and have no expectation of more bells and whistles - just that things continue to work as they are working today. I happen to be in this boat as well, as someone that has three out of six zones running very well on legacy products that I simply cannot afford to jettison until the hardware dies.

Third, this thread is based on facts, some of which have been coming to light only over the last 48 or so hours. It is therefore incomplete to an extent, and may even be wrong in places. Feel free therefore to clarify/correct/add as necessary - and I specifically invite @Ryan S  to do so. But, no rants please - they have a place, but this is not it.

All that said, this is the solution I intend to proceed with and recommend here:

Opt for a legacy system operation in May, that will run legacy and modern products, exactly as these run today; no faffing around with two networks. No more enhancements, but expecting Sonos to honestly fulfil their recent promise of all bug fixes that the legacy products can accommodate. Ditto for what needs to be done to accommodate changes driven by at least the mainstream service providers.

By a happy coincidence, all legacy products have line in jacks. So if something even happens at the streaming service end that cannot be accommodated in legacy products, I am confident of finding some device that can be wired to the line in jacks of these, that will still allow streaming from the culprit service to work including in grouped mode with all other products in the system.

The streaming from the local NAS will not have any issues in this mode, other than hardware failures including that of the NAS, and a key assumption here is that NAS changes will not need a Sonos software update.

Although Sonos has said that new products can be added to such a system, I do not see how this is possible once new products come installed with versions that are beyond the frozen legacy system one. Unless Sonos is not going to sell any new products in future with versions beyond the 2020 legacy one - I doubt that. And once a product comes with the latest version, adding it to a legacy system without rendering legacy products inoperable is going to be tricky because it will involve first separating the one system into two; I also admit to being a little fuzzy with this bit. In my case, this is all moot; I have no need for another zone. As an aside, I am someone therefore that is not of much interest to Sonos!

I also assume that if anyone at any time in the future wanted to jettison legacy products for any reason, all they will need to do is leave all such products powered off, invoke updates and the result will be a Sonos system updated to the day they do the invocation. The concern here for me is different - I need to have an ironclad way of NOT updating my system before I am ready to separate or jettison legacy products, and this needs more insights into how things will work on this front in future.

I am pretty sure that this way ahead will work in my use case and I suggest it will also work for many that are heavily invested in Sonos legacy products, that do not want to write it off or to trade up to new products just to retain all existing functionality.

Yes, it involves losing future enhancements/features, but once we accept that these essentially are music boxes that will keep doing all they do today, that should be an acceptable trade off, I suggest. It is to me, for sure.

So this way, this event will be just a minor inconvenience, and I expect to be able to use all my existing products till the hardware fails.

What this event has convince me though is to now look at/recommend smart systems that are truly modular in the sense that the smart bits can be periodically replaced at low cost, while the core “dumb” electronic hardware can be of such build/after sales support, that it justifies the higher investment in the consequent price, if better sound quality is also needed than what the smart front ends can alone provide. But that's for the future.

 

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570 replies

T
Userlevel 3
Badge +1

Lucky (read cautious) to not be among them, wondering about all those folks who entered recycle mode.  Can a brick be unbricked?

K

Lol. I can name you some that will complain about this now.

The problem will be for those that no longer have the bricked devices; for those that do, I am sure there is a solution. After all, anything that Sonos did to it, they can undo if they choose to.

Those that fell for the Sonos responsible recycling spiel...no comments.

K

A ten day use report on the Pi supplied solution - all good and stable, including the NAS being available to serve automatically after a Pi power cycle. The Pi is now tucked away out of sight, with just the power strip board and its on/off switch left accessible. I have decided to not use any kind of case for it, and parked the Pi in a vertical position that allows airflow for heat dissipation to naturally occur on both sides of the board. My OCD has dictated application of scotch tape to cover all unused Pi ports to prevent dust entry.

The Show 8 is a very nice addition.

Ryan S
Userlevel 7
Badge +26

We’ve updated some articles around this topic and I know many of you in this thread are interested in what it looks like to have a split system, so here’s an article here on Using separate S1 and S2 Sonos systems.
 

Mark good posts by pressing the like button, and select the best answer on questions you've asked to help others find solutions.
S

We’ve updated some articles around this topic and I know many of you in this thread are interested in what it looks like to have a split system, so here’s an article here on Using separate S1 and S2 Sonos systems.
 

Would it not have been a good idea to have emailed all customers?

I would imagine lots will have given up with sonos and these forums for lack of any official comments/updates?

Connect Amp x 3, Connect x 1, Sub x 2, Playbar x 2, Beam x 1, Play 1 x 4, Play 3 x 1, Play 5 x 2, Boost x 1, Symfonisk x 2
melvimbe

We’ve updated some articles around this topic and I know many of you in this thread are interested in what it looks like to have a split system, so here’s an article here on Using separate S1 and S2 Sonos systems.
 

Would it not have been a good idea to have emailed all customers?

I would imagine lots will have given up with sonos and these forums for lack of any official comments/updates?

 

It does come across as rather strange to email bad news to customers, and let media outlets dish out the good news.

Danny
K

Which leads me to believe that as in every other organisation globally today, it isn't business as usual at Sonos, never mind how brave a face that is being put on. All I want at this time is for the status quo to continue as long as possible.

melvimbe

Which leads me to believe that as in every other organisation globally today, it isn't business as usual at Sonos, never mind how brave a face that is being put on. All I want at this time is for the status quo to continue as long as possible.

 

Are you suggesting that the coronavirus is preventing Sonos from communicating to customers the way they would like?  I doubt that’s the case, as even though i don’t agree with how communication is done, I do think it’s the intended communication..

 

As far as status quo goes, don’t know what you consider to be status quo. For Sonos, the status quo is to come out with new products for the past few years, and I do hope there able to continue that.  If you’re refering to customers, then the status quo will remain as they can continue to use the products they already own.   If your suggesting that status quo means that Sonos should just do nothing for the next few months, I don’t see that as a successful way forward for the company.

Danny
K

 

Are you suggesting that the coronavirus is preventing Sonos from communicating to customers the way they would like? 

 

If your suggesting that status quo means that Sonos should just do nothing for the next few months, I don’t see that as a successful way forward for the company.

To the first, that is exactly what I am saying.

To the second, we need to come out of the next few months with our existing way of life reasonably intact, and till that is assured, I don't thing that successful ways of going forward for companies as marginal to that outcome as Sonos is, are of much importance or relevance.

Obviously, this is one case where I will be very happy, even ecstatically so, to be proved wrong in July 2020.

 

K

And to clarity, I am only referring to comms over the last ten days, starting with the strange way the recycling change has been announced - not the January fiasco. The latter was just down to ineptitude.

All very disjointed, the last ten days comms.

Smilja

And to clarity, I am only referring to comms over the last ten days, starting with the strange way the recycling change has been announced - not the January fiasco. The latter was just down to ineptitude.

All very disjointed, the last ten days comms.

 

As it was two years ago in association with the CR-100 debacle, thus nothing new under the Sonos sun. Obviously Sonos have been working at least a year on the S1/S2 solution, they aren’t going to reverse this development approach.

»And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space, Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind.« (›Windmills Of Your Mind‹ [1967]. Music by Michel Legrand ; English lyrics written by Alan & Marilyn Bergman)
melvimbe

To the second, we need to come out of the next few months with our existing way of life reasonably intact, and till that is assured, I don't thing that successful ways of going forward for companies as marginal to that outcome as Sonos is, are of much importance or relevance.

Obviously, this is one case where I will be very happy, even ecstatically so, to be proved wrong in July 2020.

 

Not sure I follow what you’re saying here.  I get it that given current circumstance whether or not Sonos is successful isn’t that important to everything else.  However, no one is going to be required to go out and buy Sonos speakers.  For those that can buy speakers and want to, it makes sense for Sonos to have new products and features that people want.  Honestly, even if you have no intention of buying any Sonos speakers, you  likely want some level of support for the speakers you have, and that won’t happen if Sonos doesn’t continue to sell speakers to customers.

Danny
F
Userlevel 7
Badge +8

And to clarity, I am only referring to comms over the last ten days, starting with the strange way the recycling change has been announced - not the January fiasco. The latter was just down to ineptitude.

All very disjointed, the last ten days comms.

Disjointed is an understatement. Seems not that long ago when they were killing the CR100 that the experts were stating it was impossible to have two versions of the app from one company on the App store. (despite others already doing it).  Maybe a change of policy by Apple. 

 

I am sure one of the experts will pedantically point out where I am wrong. 

Owner since 2006: Legacy System(8.4):3*CR100:1*ZP80:4*ZP100:1*Play 5. - S1 System:1*ZP100:1*Z120. - S2 System:5*Amp:1*Port:2*Five:1*Arc,1*Move:1*Play Bar:1*Subwoofer:5*Play1 : Long live the CR100!
K

Disjointed is an understatement.

I have known Sonos since 2011, and I have seen a much better Sonos on the comms front, which was the basis for my comment about the last ten days.

Now if someone wants to claim that this way of communicating is par for the course for Sonos based on how they did the CR100 thing, I have nothing to say because not owning CR100, I have no idea how it was communicated.

@melvimbe : it becomes very hard to rebut points made by parsing just one part of a post, even more so when that post is made in the context of earlier posts, so I will not even take the time to respond to such parsing.

All I will say is that at a time when there are unprecedented events happening, borders closing, Euro 2020 postponed to 2021, and an endless such list of lockdowns or postponements, it is extremely strange for Sonos to pretend that they will do business as usual and proceed with an event that will need a massive ramp up of support resources globally - even going by the definition of globe per Sonos being the US and Western EU. I just see this as denial  of the kind I see even now in some notable Western countries even today, and just as much as I see it in India. Everybody wants to the pretend that the light at the end of the tunnel is daylight, when it could well be an oncoming train on the same track.

I also understand the need to keep up the pretence in a forlorn hope of talking up the stock price - if so, that has not worked because there has been no uptick there since the announcement. That indicator is being driven by a tsunami totally out of Sonos control now.

Is it possible that I am wrong? I would be first person to hope that I am, as I have also said repeatedly.

The sensible thing to do would be to put things on ice till the external environment stabilises - no one is calling for any reversals.

K

Another update on the Pi solution - working fine! Since my Amazon Music plays on only one speaker at a time, and my wife needs it always On in her spaces to deal with all the stress, it now serves to keep Echo Show running for me, using the NAS as a source.

C
Userlevel 6
Badge +14

Good to hear.   

Stay safe.

K

Yep, and you too. And all of us here.

C
Userlevel 6
Badge +5

I’m happy to report that my systems operating at 8.4 still work great, safe and sound from any IP traffic to and from sonos.com and its many sub-domains (hence, no firmware updates are possible).

Interestingly, the various zone players attempt to contact the mothership hundreds of times per day even though I have stats-sharing turned off. Oh well, the pi-holes and the gateway take care of that.

I am very happy that the 8.4 desktop controller is still full-featured and that all radio streaming I attempt to listen to works as expected despite the above. Legacy controller binaries can be found out there… if you look hard enough. 

On iOS, SonoPhone and SonoPad are great alternative controllers that work on a wide variety of Sonos firmwares without complaining. So if you have an installation with lots of firmware revisions, this App is the way to go - it just works - unlike an up-to-date Sonos App which only will work with relatively recent firmwares. 

Regarding security updates, I would not rely on Sonos to focus too much on that. Rather, I’d take common-sense countermeasures to limit the potential impact of a Sonos hack. Limiting access to necessary ports, known-good sites, blocking others, etc. Additionally, my Sonos do not get access to my NAS, they only get access to a copy of the music share, hosted on a 2.5” spinner hanging off a AP. 

I would not hold my breath re: Sonos giving users a wide choice re: legacy firmwares. Based on past performance, I’d argue we should be grateful that management reversed its former lockstep “one firmware to rule them all” approach and at least gave people Legacy mode. That’s a step up from the intentional software bricking of the CR100 series. 

I suggest to everyone to research how to island your system from Sonos once you have all the hardware you are looking for. Granted, once firmware gets corrupted or whatever all bets are off. But in the meantime, my CR100s continue to work great thanks to battery upgrades, the streaming services delight me, and all is good in the neighborhood.

C
Userlevel 6
Badge +5

Hah.  Had my first radio failure today: tunein content stopped playing.  
 

A review of the pi-hole logs shows that I needed to keep one Sonos subdomain unblocked to keep enjoying tunein radio. Enable contact to sslvalidator.sonos.com in order to avoid this issue.  Now tunein works great again.

 

hope you all are well.  

T
Userlevel 3
Badge +1

FWIW, running stable on S1 controller here. No known issues so far.

Three thoughts:  received email today about his new product.  No experience, but interesting:

  1. https://audioengineusa.com/shop/adapters/b-fi-multiroom-music-streamer/
  2. https://audioengineusa.com/sonos/  
  3. Gotta wonder/speculate about Sonos trying to retire or charge for TuneIn with introduction of Sonos radio.
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