The Sonos Brexit and pragmatic ways past it

K

I will start this thread with a few caveats:

First, this thread is not for rants. There are plenty here for those, and there is no bar on opening new ones.

Second, the thread is directed for the subset of users that have a large investment in legacy products, and are content to see their Sonos systems as music systems that offer stable streamed music from either a NAS or from the net, and have no expectation of more bells and whistles - just that things continue to work as they are working today. I happen to be in this boat as well, as someone that has three out of six zones running very well on legacy products that I simply cannot afford to jettison until the hardware dies.

Third, this thread is based on facts, some of which have been coming to light only over the last 48 or so hours. It is therefore incomplete to an extent, and may even be wrong in places. Feel free therefore to clarify/correct/add as necessary - and I specifically invite @Ryan S  to do so. But, no rants please - they have a place, but this is not it.

All that said, this is the solution I intend to proceed with and recommend here:

Opt for a legacy system operation in May, that will run legacy and modern products, exactly as these run today; no faffing around with two networks. No more enhancements, but expecting Sonos to honestly fulfil their recent promise of all bug fixes that the legacy products can accommodate. Ditto for what needs to be done to accommodate changes driven by at least the mainstream service providers.

By a happy coincidence, all legacy products have line in jacks. So if something even happens at the streaming service end that cannot be accommodated in legacy products, I am confident of finding some device that can be wired to the line in jacks of these, that will still allow streaming from the culprit service to work including in grouped mode with all other products in the system.

The streaming from the local NAS will not have any issues in this mode, other than hardware failures including that of the NAS, and a key assumption here is that NAS changes will not need a Sonos software update.

Although Sonos has said that new products can be added to such a system, I do not see how this is possible once new products come installed with versions that are beyond the frozen legacy system one. Unless Sonos is not going to sell any new products in future with versions beyond the 2020 legacy one - I doubt that. And once a product comes with the latest version, adding it to a legacy system without rendering legacy products inoperable is going to be tricky because it will involve first separating the one system into two; I also admit to being a little fuzzy with this bit. In my case, this is all moot; I have no need for another zone. As an aside, I am someone therefore that is not of much interest to Sonos!

I also assume that if anyone at any time in the future wanted to jettison legacy products for any reason, all they will need to do is leave all such products powered off, invoke updates and the result will be a Sonos system updated to the day they do the invocation. The concern here for me is different - I need to have an ironclad way of NOT updating my system before I am ready to separate or jettison legacy products, and this needs more insights into how things will work on this front in future.

I am pretty sure that this way ahead will work in my use case and I suggest it will also work for many that are heavily invested in Sonos legacy products, that do not want to write it off or to trade up to new products just to retain all existing functionality.

Yes, it involves losing future enhancements/features, but once we accept that these essentially are music boxes that will keep doing all they do today, that should be an acceptable trade off, I suggest. It is to me, for sure.

So this way, this event will be just a minor inconvenience, and I expect to be able to use all my existing products till the hardware fails.

What this event has convince me though is to now look at/recommend smart systems that are truly modular in the sense that the smart bits can be periodically replaced at low cost, while the core “dumb” electronic hardware can be of such build/after sales support, that it justifies the higher investment in the consequent price, if better sound quality is also needed than what the smart front ends can alone provide. But that's for the future.

 

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S
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@Kumar .  Thanks for this.  I am using the ‘other’ thread to satisfy my anger and this one to start thinking ahead.

There is some great info above, mostly from people who understand way more about Sonos than me but I think it is a bit of a shame we don’t have more detail from Sonos to work on.  There are quite a few statement like ‘if Sonos do this then we can/can’t do this’  or if Sonos don’t do this then we can/can’t do that.

Anyhow, I am really looking forward to this thread being the most viewed when we do know that detail.  For now, I am going to not buy any more Sonos products, calm down...watch….and wait.

Thanks again Kumar.

 

chickentender

@chickentender and others: I admire the lateral moves that you guys are inventing to move around this situation. Most of it, I will have no clue how to achieve, and of course I don't grudge you that.

But I can't help thinking that even to implement the simple kind of plug and play solution I am looking at, how much of the user base that is out there will have the knowledge and guidance to implement - folks that come to online discussions are just a very small percentage of the base.

Given that, I sense a May tsunami that won't abate in a hurry as things start rolling out.

Wholeheartedly agree with that sentiment. I’m relatively late to Sonos comparatively (6 or 7 years) but I’ve a background in both IT as well as music performance and a/v with webcasting… I never considered myself pro or anything approaching the knowledge many I know have, more of a guerilla electronics warrior, so this problem solving type is fun for me. 
Though to be honest, I don't have as much fun as I once did, and throughout it all I’m tempted to just leave the Sonos system as is, add nothing, and just return to playing more records again. I guess I’m just getting old and grumpy.
I will, and I’m sure many other will, check in on this thread as the weeks tick closer. There’ll be guidance and still time for plans. At the end of it all, I don’t think it needs to be a big deal at least in practice. There are many convergent factors at work feeding the incense going ‘round, but (as you’ve titled the thread) there’s a perfectly pragmatic and sky-is-not-falling future. 
I’d feel a bit sad for some folks throwing their hands up, selling it all and jumping into another ship that could sink even faster. I hope some of them buy speaker wire.

K

 I hope some of them buy speaker wire.

LOL. That made my day:-). I hope that any that do, don't fall into the audiophile snake oil nonsense around speaker wires. 

Let alone IT, I am not even an engineer; but I have spent a decade afflicted by severe audiophilia. I cured myself of that, came to Sonos in 2011 to stay cured, and all was good till this deja vu of getting into the workings of what I would really prefer to see as just boxes that make music.

chickentender

but I have spent a decade afflicted by severe audiophilia. 

 

Hahah. I lived that decade as well… roughly 2000 through mid-2009, when I sold off my remaining 6 receivers (several were quad monsters) and 3 speaker sets from the basement, along with nearly everything else I owned, and went around the world for 2 years. When I came back stuff didn’t seem as neat. Sonos sure did.
Now I’ve just got an old Marantz 2235b running to a pair of Wharfedales. No pres, no bi-wiring or gold plates… hell no optical. Modest, old, compact and I love it. Everything else is just faffing about and convenience. Don’t need it. That’s just me.

A

@chickentender and others: I admire the lateral moves that you guys are inventing to move around this situation. Most of it, I will have no clue how to achieve, and of course I don't grudge you that.

But I can't help thinking that even to implement the simple kind of plug and play solution I am looking at, how much of the user base that is out there will have the knowledge and guidance to implement - folks that come to online discussions are just a very small percentage of the base.

Given that, I sense a May tsunami that won't abate in a hurry as things start rolling out.

….At the end of it all, I don’t think it needs to be a big deal at least in practice….

If you want to stay up with all the latest features, in particular voice control, then it probably is a big deal… All I’ve ever wanted to do was listen to my music from a NAS, which is why I locked it all off a while ago, so I can honestly say that it doesn’t affect me in the slightest. That doesn’t stop me feeling very sorry for those who feel angry or deeply disappointed, though - I do feel that Sonos has let them down badly.

K

@chickentender :Lol. Parallel stories in part - Audiophilia, 2000-2010. Took a while to arrive at my premier kit - Quad 909/99 that fed Harbeth speakers. Source Rega P5/Marantz SACDP. In time Sonos replaced it all, though I retained a KEF and Quad passive pair for two Connect Amps, that are still soldiering along very well. I remember sending a Quad CDP for service to the UK, that was promptly done; I still miss the legendary bombproof 909, but it ended up overbuilt for my use case, so needs must kind of thing. Sonos has been brilliant - allowing orders of magnitude expansion in access to great music, with no audible sound quality compromises. Till now it just worked except for minor attention to things like reserving IP addresses. Now I have to again break my head about more than the music to keep the music playing. I haven’t the time or the inclination to rinse and repeat, so no more after this.

K

….At the end of it all, I don’t think it needs to be a big deal at least in practice….

If you want to stay up with all the latest features, in particular voice control, then it probably is a big deal… 

If Sonos sticks to their latest pledge - and it must be said that this is a big if given their recent track record of broken promises - and keeps legacy systems afloat for many more years why? Every legacy product of today has line in jacks, so even if the streaming service feed to Sonos isn't broken, one just needs to switch the supply device to the line in jacks for the latest in voice control, even before Sonos offers it in their newest integrated products. And while Sonos has been bashful about saying this explicitly, only streaming service functionality might break before the hardware dies, in which again - Line In to the rescue.

I cannot see Sonos doing anything in future on the smart audio side that the best of other smart device makers will not be able to do, except in some ways that are unique to Sonos today. But that also gets offset by Sonos not being able to do some things that are unique to the other devices. For most users, these differences won’t be a big deal. On the other hand, at best Sonos will stay on level pegging terms on voice control. Leader in this area? Doubtful.

TV may be a  different ball game - I don't use Sonos for TV and don’t much care for anything fancy for TV audio, so I don't know much about that or care to know more. But there it may be that having the latest Sonos offerings delivers a better outcome than anything other than a full blown HT system, with the latter having the problem of being decor destroying. And in that case one may want to stay on the Sonos upgrade train to get those benefits, jettisoning legacy products if one wants to stay on one interoperable system.

K

For those that would like to have a background summary, a link to what feels like a balanced article:

https://www.slashgear.com/sonos-nightmare-was-inevitable-24607638/

K

From the above article a quote:

“The reality is that this situation was always going to happen: the oldest products in Sonos’ line-up were inevitably going to reach a point where their hardware wasn’t able to keep up with the software, even if the amps and drivers themselves are perfectly functional.”

And where the amps and drivers are expensive for obtaining quality sound, as well for reliability/long service life, the idea of having separate boxes for the software and the hardware suggests itself. And with line in equipped legacy products, it is easy enough for another software box to access the legacy Sonos amp/driver hardware, bypassing the obsoleted Sonos software. As long as the amps/driver hardware continues to work.

The article also uses smartphones as an analogy which is fine, but physically unbundling a phone on similar lines is wildly impractical, which is where the analogy breaks down.

This also helps understand why sending functional amp/driver hardware to a landfill is criminal in AD 2020. Trump beliefs on what causes global climate change notwithstanding.

K

There is one aspect where I can add relevant value to this thread, based on experience with audiophile kits for a decade and Sonos for another and that is on the subject of the sound quality via Line In. 

There is absolutely no difference in the heard sound quality between Apple Music invoked via the Sonos app, and Apple Music invoked on an Echo device and played via a wire connected Connect Amp. It isn't even necessary for the wire to be anything more expensive than a bog standard RCA stereo cable - I have found that these days excellent cables in varying lengths are sold by Amazon Basics at very reasonable prices. But any electronics shop should also have perfectly adequate ones.

Audiophiles may also point out that there is an additional analog to digital conversion involved here that takes place in the Connect Amp - again, it does not result in any audible difference.

C
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For those that would like to have a background summary, a link to what feels like a balanced article:

https://www.slashgear.com/sonos-nightmare-was-inevitable-24607638/

Here is another one : 

https://slate.com/technology/2008/08/the-death-of-planned-obsolescence.html

Sonos’ approach signals a larger shift in the gadget industry, a business that has long titillated its customers with short-lived thrills—what gadget-lovers derisively call “planned obsolescence.”

 

now it seems a shift back to the gadgets :wink:

chickentender

There is one aspect where I can add relevant value to this thread, based on experience with audiophile kits for a decade and Sonos for another and that is on the subject of the sound quality via Line In. 

There is absolutely no difference in the heard sound quality between Apple Music invoked via the Sonos app, and Apple Music invoked on an Echo device and played via a wire connected Connect Amp. It isn't even necessary for the wire to be anything more expensive than a bog standard RCA stereo cable - I have found that these days excellent cables in varying lengths are sold by Amazon Basics at very reasonable prices. But any electronics shop should also have perfectly adequate ones.

Audiophiles may also point out that there is an additional analog to digital conversion involved here that takes place in the Connect Amp - again, it does not result in any audible difference.

To-date, this hasn’t been my experience but I very much suspect that’s purely because my only A/B testing done has been A-direct native sonos from the Connect, and B-line-in play back from Connect with a smart TV source. I reckon if I compared the native playback with a music-oriented device (line-in to Connect) playing the same content then my experience would match what you’re saying.
Now I’m waiting for the Node 2i to arrive, so there’ll be some definite near-future A/B’ing upcoming in my house. :)

K

My experience and research suggests that cases where audible differences survive single variable controlled double blind tests are close to non existent, and probably non existent in a typical domestic environment with an elevated noise floor. In simple words, sound quality will not be an issue as long as the source is identical and sound levels are the same. 

K

@Cisume you mean a return to planned obsolescence, surely.

K

I am attaching a photo of my dining space zone to show that the approach I have promoted here need not look like a kludge. It also shows how to keep old products doing what they have been built to do, deliver music. 

The Quads were bought in 2002, Sonos in 2012, and Echo Show 5 in 2019. Working very well together even so. When I group this zone with others, or when I want to have local music on the NAS to be the source, I use the Sonos app and forego artwork display on the Echo; when only this zone is used for streaming sources, I use the Echo via voice or phone commands, and it shows album art all the time. And where You Tube premium is the service, the videos.The Echo Show wall paper is my tribute to quality vinyl, which just became too much effort to keep using, and got sold to someone that still uses it.

I refuse therefore to consign this brilliant Connect Amp to any landfill as long as it can amplify source signals. Also for the reason that even today it is not easy to find an equally capable HiFi amplifier that can sit in its footprint, delivering equally reliable and distortion free amplification, from an always on, always in standby mode, effortlessly. Other than the Sonos Amp. But I do not need its higher power, and it will do nothin for me that is more than what the Connect Amp already does so well. Even after whatever upgrades Sonos may provide the new amp with after May 2020, if I was to dump the Connect Amp. Why then should I, and add my bit to global waste? Even if I could afford to do this?

 

chickentender

I am attaching a photo of my dining space zone to show that the approach I have promoted here need not look like a kludge. It also shows how to keep old products doing what they have been built to do, deliver music. 

The Quads were bought in 2002, Sonos in 2012, and Echo Show 5 in 2019. Working very well together even so. When I group this zone with others, or when I want to have local music on the NAS to be the source, I use the Sonos app and forego artwork display on the Echo; when only this zone is used for streaming sources, I use the Echo via voice or phone commands, and it shows album art all the time. And where You Tube premium is the service, the videos.The Echo Show wall paper is my tribute to quality vinyl, which just became too much effort to keep using, and got sold to someone that still uses it.

I refuse therefore to consign this brilliant Connect Amp to any landfill as long as it can amplify source signals. Also for the reason that even today it is not easy to find an equally capable HiFi amplifier that can sit in its footprint, delivering equally reliable and distortion free amplification, from an always on, always in standby mode, effortlessly. Other than the Sonos Amp. But I do not need its higher power, and it will do nothin for me that is more than what the Connect Amp already does so well. Even after whatever upgrades Sonos may provide the new amp with after May 2020, if I was to dump the Connect Amp. Why then should I, and add my bit to global waste? Even if I could afford to do this?

 

Our uses are quite similar… And I agree. The line-in and grouping alone warrants keeping them around.

For my part however, there will never be a “big-three” device in my true audio experience, for convenience or otherwise. This is simply a personal choice not to provide any of my personal dollars (at least to audio ends) to Google, Amazon, or Apple, neither hardware nor software (by way of streaming service choices). I have a couple Google Home Minis in the home and a Sonos One with Google enabled (only because it’s in the kitchen and I ask it to set timers for cooking - literally its only use there haha), but I *really* do not want any sort of further marriage of these…. For reasons we’re seeing playout, as well as personal convictions that are likely futility but at least some amount of naive comfort to me. 

D
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@Kumar, thanks for the photo of your setup. Can you stream Spotify using an Amazon Echo Show or are you limited to Amazon? 
 

I plan to keep my system on legacy software and see how long things keep working. After that, not sure what I’ll do. Being on a continuous “upgrade” cycle is not appealing. I own a Connect Amp (actually ZP-120), Connect and gen 1 Play 5. I also own 2 new Sonos Amps, a product I really like as I use it with both TVs because I dislike sound bars. We love the ease of use of Sonos. It’s the one piece of tech my wife has no trouble using. I always knew this day would come, but I guess I avoided thinking through the implications. This is a real disaster for Sonos. I’ve used their products for 12 years, but have started looking at other options - a situation I couldn’t have imagined 2 weeks ago. I don’t know how they’ll sell their more expensive products now. I aspired to own a stereo pair of gen 2 Play 5s. I have 1 now, but won’t be buying a companion for it as my current one could be “retired” by Sonos in just 3 years. I also was thinking about 1 more Amp, but that won’t be happening either. Sonos really needs to come up with a solid solution to this, but they don’t have much time. I don’t see how this won’t significantly impact their business. Wondering how much time my 4 Play 1s and my Sub have left.

R
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Over on the rant thread I have found the following recent comments from Ryan

“If you bring modern devices along with legacy devices into a legacy build you’ll it will still be possible to add all Sonos products currently available for sale to a legacy system. They’ll all update to the correct legacy build.”

“Generally speaking, it’s best to leave updates on, but with a legacy system I wouldn’t expect much in the way of updates. They’ll come only when absolutely needed, and only when possible. “

“To be very clear, it will still be possible to add all Sonos products currently available for sale right now to a legacy system. “

“In May, when the legacy change comes, you’ll be able to set your whole Sonos system on the legacy build (both modern and legacy devices). Any existing modern speakers that come along with your legacy devices onto that build will work exactly as the have been, however the whole system (including the modern devices that move to legacy) won’t regularly update. Any new features that come to Sonos won’t be added to any of those speakers while they’re on legacy software. Over time, some services may require updates to keep going and we’ll do what we can to provide them, but we will be limited to do so by the hardware of those legacy devices.”

“@kassey22000, I know it’s buried several times in the pages of this thread and others, but we’ve committed to supporting our products with updates for at least five years after they’re no longer sold by us, after they’ve been discontinued. And as you all know, we have a track record of doing so for much longer than that. The 2015 Connect and Connect:Amps are only recently no longer sold, or in some cases still available at very limited stock levels. So you’re looking at at least five years worth of updates from when they were discontinued.”

 

Some of this was also covered in the initial post. However It is possible that I (and others) have misunderstood (or possibly disbelieved) the initial communication and it is possible that the quotes above have been taken out of context so for clarity here is a scenario with questions to help decide the route forward. Ideally @Ryan to provide the answers

The scenario  - As I have legacy products that I wish to retain in May and some modern products that I want to continue to work with the legacy products I put my system into legacy mode.

The questions are

Can I expect to be able to add any of the existing product set to a legacy environment. Irrespective of the release of software/firmware that the product is manufactured with or for that matter the date it is manufactured?

Since Sonos are committed to supporting a product for at least 5 years after end of manufacture is the legacy environment effectively good for at least 5 years after the demise of the last of the current product set?    (Subject to changes in streaming services APIs)

Even if Sonos bring out a new product for which they they cannot or will not create a legacy date software/firmware version will all other current (April 2020) products still be able to join a Legacy environment?

If in another n (lets be optimistic 10) years I find that my legacy components (which will probably have increased by then) have all reached the end of their useful life will it be simple to come out of legacy mode?

Is it realistic to have the expectation that Sonos will attempt to make changes to the legacy streaming APIs if required?

The understanding is that any new features made available over the next few years may not be available in a legacy environment.

exdirtfarmer
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Over on the rant thread I have found the following recent comments from Ryan

“If you bring modern devices along with legacy devices into a legacy build you’ll it will still be possible to add all Sonos products currently available for sale to a legacy system. They’ll all update to the correct legacy build.”

“Generally speaking, it’s best to leave updates on, but with a legacy system I wouldn’t expect much in the way of updates. They’ll come only when absolutely needed, and only when possible. “

“To be very clear, it will still be possible to add all Sonos products currently available for sale right now to a legacy system. “

“In May, when the legacy change comes, you’ll be able to set your whole Sonos system on the legacy build (both modern and legacy devices). Any existing modern speakers that come along with your legacy devices onto that build will work exactly as the have been, however the whole system (including the modern devices that move to legacy) won’t regularly update. Any new features that come to Sonos won’t be added to any of those speakers while they’re on legacy software. Over time, some services may require updates to keep going and we’ll do what we can to provide them, but we will be limited to do so by the hardware of those legacy devices.”

“@kassey22000, I know it’s buried several times in the pages of this thread and others, but we’ve committed to supporting our products with updates for at least five years after they’re no longer sold by us, after they’ve been discontinued. And as you all know, we have a track record of doing so for much longer than that. The 2015 Connect and Connect:Amps are only recently no longer sold, or in some cases still available at very limited stock levels. So you’re looking at at least five years worth of updates from when they were discontinued.”

 

Some of this was also covered in the initial post. However It is possible that I (and others) have misunderstood (or possibly disbelieved) the initial communication and it is possible that the quotes above have been taken out of context so for clarity here is a scenario with questions to help decide the route forward. Ideally @Ryan to provide the answers

The scenario  - As I have legacy products that I wish to retain in May and some modern products that I want to continue to work with the legacy products I put my system into legacy mode.

The questions are

Can I expect to be able to add any of the existing product set to a legacy environment. Irrespective of the release of software/firmware that the product is manufactured with or for that matter the date it is manufactured?

Since Sonos are committed to supporting a product for at least 5 years after end of manufacture is the legacy environment effectively good for at least 5 years after the demise of the last of the current product set?    (Subject to changes in streaming services APIs)

Even if Sonos bring out a new product for which they they cannot or will not create a legacy date software/firmware version will all other current (April 2020) products still be able to join a Legacy environment?

If in another n (lets be optimistic 10) years I find that my legacy components (which will probably have increased by then) have all reached the end of their useful life will it be simple to come out of legacy mode?

Is it realistic to have the expectation that Sonos will attempt to make changes to the legacy streaming APIs if required?

The understanding is that any new features made available over the next few years may not be available in a legacy environment.


Looks like SONOS will offer the Current Software as Legacy Software as an option for the current equipment and maybe future equipment as they see fit.  It will not offer new features, but may offer bug fixes, maybe even fix some issues with services as they see fit. Eventually they will stop offering the software.

Since they do not offer any other software loading process, once they decide not to deliver software to your hardware, you are screwed. They decide when your hardware gets turned off.

You will not be able to purchase used hardware and load compatible software on your system.

They do not offer any other software delivery platform other than the Cloud.

They have us all by the balls.

 

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E
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The Quads were bought in 2002, Sonos in 2012, and Echo Show 5 in 2019. Working very well together even so. When I group this zone with others, or when I want to have local music on the NAS to be the source, I use the Sonos app and forego artwork display on the Echo; when only this zone is used for streaming sources, I use the Echo via voice or phone commands, and it shows album art all the time. And where You Tube premium is the service, the videos.The Echo Show wall paper is my tribute to quality vinyl, which just became too much effort to keep using, and got sold to someone that still uses it.

I refuse therefore to consign this brilliant Connect Amp to any landfill as long as it can amplify source signals. Also for the reason that even today it is not easy to find an equally capable HiFi amplifier that can sit in its footprint, delivering equally reliable and distortion free amplification, from an always on, always in standby mode, effortlessly. Other than the Sonos Amp. But I do not need its higher power, and it will do nothin for me that is more than what the Connect Amp already does so well. Even after whatever upgrades Sonos may provide the new amp with after May 2020, if I was to dump the Connect Amp. Why then should I, and add my bit to global waste? Even if I could afford to do this?

 

This gives me hope. But I also knew there had to be a simple solution to this.

I was wanting to buy an amp before this happened and now,...I am more inclined to go old school. I do not need bells and whistles. In fact, I do not want them. I just want music. Music storage, an amp and a controller...hopefully a laptop that can act as the controller  and a phone or some other device like your setup that I can use winamp on. (I despise the sonos software on my laptop)

Adding a turntable and streaming would also be useful. And maybe a wireless play 5 for outside use,

So I have a question, is it best to wait for an amp to come out. Is this kind of thing simple to do or am I just naive. Do you have any suggestions as to a direction to go in, Or wait.

I just have a few play 5s now, and I love them for the sheer quality of sound that comes from them.

 

B

Sigh. I really appreciate seeing all this discussion around solutions. Thanks to Kumar for starting it. 
 

it does seem however to be gravitating off topic.

C
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Looks like SONOS will offer the Current Software as Legacy Software as an option for the current equipment and maybe future equipment as they see fit.  It will not offer new features, but may offer bug fixes, maybe even fix some issues with services as they see fit. Eventually they will stop offering the software.

Since they do not offer any other software loading process, once they decide not to deliver software to your hardware, you are screwed. They decide when your hardware gets turned off.

You will not be able to purchase used hardware and load compatible software on your system.

They do not offer any other software delivery platform other than the Cloud.

They have us all by the balls.

 

I think it is outrageous that somebody with a legacy system would be denied the ability to add another legacy device. 

exdirtfarmer
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I think it is outrageous that somebody with a legacy system would be denied the ability to add another legacy device. 

All components need to be on a Compatible version. SONOS deems which versions are compatible.

You need the ability to load a compatible version on the device to add it to your network.

If they deliver an incompatible version from the Cloud, you will not be able to add it to your system unless you update all your system. 

Until this point there has been no going backwards in versions.  There is no vehicle to take the system back.  No factory reset and local software loading mechanism is available to the public, although i am sure the service department at sonos has the tools.

You can block the updates from coming but once you take them, you cant go back.

I am not concerned that the system will stop functioning as it is today and I have all kinds of tools to control the system from third party plugins. I just worry that if things go south at SONOS and somebody decides to turn off the Legacy Software delivery that the end will be very near for the platform.

The line in on the devices can be fed with any new platform and I will never loose the grouping and control but once the download mechanism stops, then we are bust.  Any software glitch and you are done.

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K

@chickentender @chickentender I get what you suggest about the big three, so good luck with that - not many of us can do what you are doing, and I certainly cannot. I use all three in a horses for courses way - Google for Android and search, Apple for Mac/Time Capsule/Music and Amazon for Echo, Music, Kindle and all sorts of online shopping. I realise the risk, but I also think I am too insignificant to be of much interest to them. I also realise that things like the slider to cover the camera on the Show is a sop. But if they still want to see/hear all the banal things that go on my home which are the same that go on in billions of homes, they can have it all and keep building more server farms to do that. In any case, any government is just as much a tyranny, so what's the difference of one over the other? So I just find that for my future Sonos roadmap, products from the big three will probably suit me best. For you, others might - what is pragmatic for me may not be a constraint for you.

I am sure you understand though that there are many ways the big guys can access you and if you can't cover all the bases, there may be no point in covering just a few. Covering all probably means a Unabomber lifestyle, minus the bombs. To me, life is too short to spend like that or wearing a tin foil hat. One just has to be watchful of not getting brainwashed by them, in the same way one needs to not get brainwashed by Sonos.

@dan8558  I can invoke via voice both Amazon and Apple Music. Doing this for Spotify hasn't been brought to India yet by Amazon/Spotify, but it may be possible in your location. In the Spotify app, only the Connect Amp is seen as speaker available, not the Show - again this may be a India specific gap that will get addressed sooner or later and Sonos can neither aid nor hinder that. At that time I should be able pick the Show as the target speaker as an alternative to the Connect Amp. I can do that today in the Amazon app.

Once you find that your plan to keep a legacy system running is successful, it should not matter to you what life the play 1 and Sub have - they will just move to legacy product category and keep working as now. One of my zones has a 1+ Sub in it, and I want to make sure I have a solid way of moving to and then staying in legacy system mode to accommodate these too in future; that is not too far away, because my 2014 play 1 units have just 64 mb, a far cry from the latest units that have 1024 mb, which memory is what I am sure Sonos developers are anxious to access.

@Ralpfocus  I have answers to some of your questions, but as you suggest, I think it is better we leave them to Ryan. If he does not answer, you may want to summarise them and repeat them in a post later and then some one here will take a stab at them, I am sure.

Two examples of what I thought is delicious irony, to end this post.

  1. Early adopters of Sonos that have built large systems with the inevitable legacy products that are still working, are now Luddites if they resist the Sonos push to get them to change their products.
  2. The many here that are fiercely anti Apple because of how Apple is a closed system and the consequences thereof, have no trouble fervently supporting a similarly closed Sonos, whose behaviour, if it still differs from that of Apple, differs only by degree
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Looks like SONOS will offer the Current Software as Legacy Software as an option for the current equipment and maybe future equipment as they see fit.  It will not offer new features, but may offer bug fixes, maybe even fix some issues with services as they see fit. Eventually they will stop offering the software.

Since they do not offer any other software loading process, once they decide not to deliver software to your hardware, you are screwed. They decide when your hardware gets turned off.

You will not be able to purchase used hardware and load compatible software on your system.

They do not offer any other software delivery platform other than the Cloud.

They have us all by the balls.

 

Yes, but that has been the case since 2005 so now same hands around the same balls, what's the difference? Yes, any legacy maintenance plan is and will always be at the mercy of Sonos, but short of throwing out all Sonos hardware what’s the choice? I would say wait till they actually squeeze out even this legacy plan before doing that, don’t do it in anticipation.

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