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Stuck in loop on S2 mobile app

  • 14 October 2021
  • 13 replies
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J
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I have the following equipment, on three different floors of my house:

Room A: 2 Fives (stereo pair)

Room B: 1 One

Room C: 1 Play:5 (gen 1)

Rooms A and B are controlled by S2 (iPhone)

Room C is controlled by S1 (iPhone)

Everything has been working perfectly, exactly as expected, for quite some time. Last evening, though, though, I experienced a particularly annoying issue --

Room A was active -- streaming from TuneIn Radio. Rooms B and C were inactive. The S2 controller suddenly popped up a message that an additional Sonos system had been found and was incompatible with S2, and it asked how I wanted to proceed.

That is, the old Play:5 had been discovered by S2. I had the choice of adding the Play:5 (which of course would not be allowed) or taking additional action. ‘Taking additional action’, as far as I could tell, involved resetting the S2 system, which of course I also didn’t want to do.

I was stuck in an infinite loop. Closing/reopening S2 by itself did not make the message go away. I finally solved the problem by physically unplugging the Play:5, then closing/reopening S2, then reconnecting the Play:5 to power.

It seems to me that when something like this occurs, S2 should allow a third choice: ‘Ignore the system that’s just been discovered, and just continue as is’. Am I overlooking something obvious?

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Best answer by JCBoston 29 October 2021, 16:07

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13 replies

ratty

Settings > App Preferences > Allow Pop-up Messages

Disable it and see if it helps. Failing that you should always be able to swipe down on a pop-up to dismiss it.

J
Userlevel 1
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Just FYI -- This has happened again. With a twist.

Last time, invoking the S2 app recognized the three devices on my S2 ‘subnetwork’ but then forced me to try to add the non-S2 device it was also seeing. I was in an infinite loop until I unplugged the non-S2 device.

This time, the S2 app recognized the non-S2 device but said that device was incompatible. It did not recognize the three S2 devices at all, and I could not proceed until, as previously, I unplugged the non-S2 device.

(I use ‘subnetwork’ in a non-technical sense -- two groups of devices. All four devices reside on a single wi-fi network.)

This is comically odd. The S2 app should not be able to see any device it is incapable of managing. Or at the very least, it should see such a device but give me the option of ignoring that device. Anything less is just plain bad design.

Corry P
Userlevel 7
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Hi @JCBoston 

Thanks for the update.

This likely happening because, at least for a little while, the S2 app is unable to find the S2 system - as long as the app remains in contact with a system it “knows”, it will ignore others. Rebooting the router by removing power for at least 30 seconds may help. If it does, repeating this step a few times a year may keep things reliable.

Do you have anything that extends the reach of the WiFi? If so, and if your iPhone and S2 system are not connecting to the same access point, that may cause the issue - it depends on what type of access points you are using. Toggling WiFi off and on again on your iPhone the next time it happens would be a good-ish test for this - assuming your iPhone is in the same rough location as the S2 system.

The S2 app is capable of seeing the S1 system so that it can tell you to use the S1 app, but I do get your point. You understand the difference between S1 and S2, however - many may not, and not understand that there is an alternate version of the app that they need to download instead. Especially first-time-users, and they’re often the ones actually downloading the app, as opposed to updating it. I suppose we’re trying to do the best thing for the biggest number of people.

Out of curiosity, is the S1 device the only Sonos device wired with ethernet? If it is, that may explain why the S2 app keeps finding it first. Try it on WiFi.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
J
Userlevel 1
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Thanks.

My wi-fi system has no auxiliary access points. And all four Sonos devices are on wi-fi -- no hardwired Ethernet connection is present.

My router is on the middle floor of the house. The S2 devices are one floor above and one floor below. The S1 device is on the same floor as the router, so it is physically closest to the router.

Both times this problem occurred, I was on my iPhone, in the S2 app, one floor down from the router, thus nearest my paired S2 Fives. It seems to me that

  • In the first occurrence, the S2 app found S2 first, then ‘warned’ me that an S1 device was also present. (So contrary to what you state, S2 was in contact with a system it ‘knows’ but nevertheless also connected to a second system???)
  • In the second occurrence, the S2 app found S1 first, then ‘warned’ me that the S1 device it found was incompatible, and did not see the S2 devices at all. (So perhaps it did ignore the second system, as advertised???)

I’ve disabled pop-ups, as suggested by ‘Ratty’ above, and that might help; we’ll see. If this happens again, I’ll also try rebooting the router and/or toggling wi-fi on the iPhone.

Corry P
Userlevel 7
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Hi @JCBoston 

As you’ve only got one access point, something other than my main theory must be happening. A router reboot has a good chance of helping.

If the reboot of the router doesn’t help, I’d then put my money on interference. In this case, could you please submit a diagnostic from your S2 system and reply here with the number given? Thanks. Please do so while you are connected successfully.

In your first occurrence, this would be the kind of pop-up that should be able to be dismissed, as described by @ratty.

In your second occurrence, this is the situation I described. The app will try several times to find speakers it knows, and when it fails to do so it resorts to reporting the S1 system’s presence instead and, as you can see, stop looking for others. This may happen when the app looks like it already is connected - if the connection refresh fails, the first you’ll likely know about it is seeing the message you’re reporting (though the controls in the app will likely fail to work some seconds before this).

Please let me know how it goes.

 

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
J
Userlevel 1
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I connected successfully to S2 from my iPhone while standing near my paired Fives, one floor down from the router. Neither problem occurred, but I submitted diagnostics anyway -- confirmation number 839373836.

If the problem reoccurs, I’ll generate a second set of diagnostics, correct?

Thanks.

 

ratty

By the way, standing near the speakers in question is immaterial. The phone doesn’t connect directly to them; it connects via your WiFi and hence through the router.

Corry P
Userlevel 7
Badge +18

Hi @JCBoston 

Thanks for the diagnostics!

If the problem reoccurs, I’ll generate a second set of diagnostics, correct?

No need - if the system isn’t connected, there won’t be much information to be had anyway.

I do see a suspiciously high transmission error rate for the Left Five (suspicious because it has the strongest signal) and a high rate on the One SL too. As you mentioned that your router is old (and therefore relatively weak in transmission) I’m going to guess that the Five is too close to the router - please separate them by at least 1m (3 feet) if this is the case.

As for the One SL, that could also be interference, but likely due to proximity of another WiFi client device this time. Or, extreme proximity to a metal or glass surface.

However, it seems that there are ~100 WiFi broadcasts that the speakers are able to pick up, many are of the hidden variety. They are mostly split well between channels 1, 6 and 11 - the only channels that do not overlap - but each of these is very busy. Your router is currently on channel 1, and that does look like the best option, but please be aware that the shear number of these may be causing congestion on that frequency, slowing the response of some of the units. One way of avoiding this would be to teach S2 your 5GHz WiFi credentials, then remove the 2.4GHz ones. This will shift S2 over to the less-congested frequency. You can find the options to do so at Settings » System » Network » Manage Networks. If you have trouble removing the 2.4GHz credentials, they will be in use. Disable and re-enable 2.4GHz (apply/save in-between) on your router to force them over, then try removing the credentials again.

I also saw evidence that the router needs a reboot - DNS queries shouldn’t take 5 seconds.

I hope this helps.

 

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
J
Userlevel 1
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Sorry, but this is not the full answer.

First, the Left Five (S2) is not the closest device to the router. It is the closest S2 device to the router, but is one floor away from the router. The Play:5 (S1) is actually closest to the router; in the same room, in fact.

Via my router admin, I rebooted the router. I then disabled SSID broadcast for my 2.4GHz channels and moved all of my S2 devices to 5GHz. But I was unable to move the Play:5 -- this S1 device apparently is not able to detect 5GHz. So the Play:5 had to remain on the 2.4GHz wireless. I rebooted the router again.

And the problem was still present: When I invoked the S2 controller app on my iPhone, it sometimes detected the Play:5 and put me into the loop we’ve been discussing. The issue was intermittent: sometimes, quitting and reloading the S2 controller app allowed me to avoid the issue. But the problem definitely remained.

I’ve fixed matters (apparently) by hardwiring the Play:5 to the router. This required also disabling wi-fi in the S1 controller app and removing the 2.4GHz network from the S1 controller app. SSID broadcast for 2.4GHz remains disabled on the router.

Now, invoking the S1 controller app reveals and manages my one S1 device, and invoking the S2 controller app reveals and manages my three S2 devices. Neither controller app attempts to manage the opposite system. Fingers crossed -- this apparently has fixed the issue.

Would you like to see another set of diagnostics? From S2? S1? Both?

Corry P
Userlevel 7
Badge +18

Hi @JCBoston 

I was looking at a diagnostic from your S2 system, so had no idea about the Play:5 and it’s situation. Only putting the S2 devices onto 5GHz is exactly what I asked you to do - the Play:5 indeed cannot connect to 5GHz.

I’m glad that wiring the Play:5 to your router has improved things - I assumed this would make it easier for the S2 app to find it before it found the others, but apparently not. Good stuff.

Would you like to see another set of diagnostics? From S2? S1? Both?

Let’s wait a little longer to make sure things have in fact improved. If they have, there’s no need - just enjoy the tunes!

 

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
Corry P
Userlevel 7
Badge +18

Hi @JCBoston 

“Forget Current Sonos System” - As the app at that moment has only found S1, I presume that’s what it’s going to affect. It really isn’t that bad - reconnecting would be simple (at worst, you might need to turn off your Play:5 again for a minute).

“Reset App” - essentially, this is “forget all known Sonos systems”. Again, if S1 is powered off, it shouldn’t be a problem to reconnect.

I agree with you however - having more options would make sense. The options you suggest make a lot of sense.

As you only have one WiFi access point, your location should only affect whether or not you can get connected to the WiFi, and not which system your app happens to find when you are connected - this is weird, to say the least.

Thanks again for your feedback, and I’m glad to hear things are more dependable now. 

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
Corry P
Userlevel 7
Badge +18

Hi @JCBoston 

Thanks for your post!

That really shouldn’t have happened - as it did happen, I’ll let the right people know. The steps you took to fix it sound like exactly the right thing to do to me.

Having a third option to mitigate this issue would indeed be a good idea. I’ve marked this topic as a feature request. Thank you for reporting this.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
J
Userlevel 1
Badge +2

After additional time in this ‘new regime’ my conclusions are that things are, in fact, much improved -- but also that while the changes work for me, they’re not a total solution. Allow me to offer some observations and then gracefully sign off -- because the last thing I want is to appear ungrateful for the help this thread has ultimately provided.

With my S2 devices all moved to my 5GHz wifi and my one S1 device hardwired to the router, I’m seeing fewer issues than before. But not zero issues.

Anywhere in the house, I can invoke the S1 app and see only the S1 system. Obviously, in real life the only place I would be invoking S1 is in the room with the S1 device -- so that issue is definitely solved.

But there are definitely spots throughout the house (not just the room containing the S1 device and the router) where, apparently due to wifi strength or similar issues, invoking S2 detects the S1 system first and puts me into the infinite loop that started this whole thread.

Fortunately, moving just a few feet and re-invoking the app usually gets me to the S2 system after one or two tries. The issue doesn’t seem to have any simple relation to sheer distance from the router; it might have something to do with intervening walls, etc. I’ve concluded that I can live with it.

But as I’ve said before, in an ideal world, the S2 app should be able to deal with this far more gracefully than it now does. Consider the current sequence of events:

  • I invoke S2 and get the message Sonos found on <my network name>. This system includes products that aren’t compatible with Sonos S2. (In other words, it’s found my S1 system first.)
  • My options are (a) Open S1 controller or (b) More options
  • Do I want to open the S1 controller? Nope. I’m in S2 and want to get to S2. So that leaves More options.

Let’s examine those options. There are basically two:

  • Forget Current Sonos System. Does this mean forget the S1 system (which the S2 app has just found) or the S2 system (because I’m in the S2 app)? If the latter (which I think is the case), I definitely don’t want to do that.
  • Reset App. Kill the connection and attempt to re-connect to S2, with no guarantee of success? Nope.

Both choices are confusing, and neither is straightforward. As I said at the beginning of this thread, there really should be a third option:

  • Never attempt to connect to this incompatible product again.

The S2 app could place this product’s serial number on a ‘do not connect’ list that it maintains internally. Or, if that’s too drastic, at least

  • Ignore this incompatible system and keep trying to find a valid S2 system instead.

With the S1/S2 approach, Sonos has gone to a lot of trouble to allow people to set up configurations that allow older systems to coexist nicely with newer ones. If that’s a real commitment, it seems to me that ultimately, S2 will have to get smarter about how it deals with legacy equipment.

Just my two cents.

Thanks.

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