Spotify HIFI and Sonos S1


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When Spotify goes cd quality later this year will the S1 System and legacy players (of which I have many) be able to stream it? I hope so as streaming cd quality Spotify would obviously not be beyond the capabilities of legacy connects and amps which already stream 16/44 Tidal and Qobuz. Please confirm that streaming Spotify HIFI will be possible with S1.

I do feel let down and stranded as a customer when I am constantly worrying if my expensive system that took years to save up for will be the victim of ruthless planned obsolescence by denial of a  software tweak required to keep it functional. If Sonos withhold the ability for these players to stream spotify at 16/44 as a lever try to force existing customers to upgrade to new products it would show considerable contempt and disregard for the loyalty their large historic customer base. Rant over, sorry, but why do I feel pessimistic about this?

 


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If Sonos withhold the ability for these players to stream spotify at 16/44 as a lever 

 

Since Sonos does this already on all S1 systems for local music, I don't see any reason for concern.

Having said that, as someone that has both Spotify and local music in 16/44 format, I hear no difference in sound quality. Something to think about before forking more money to Spotify every month.

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Spotify connect will be able to cast 16/44 from the app, without a firmware upgrade I do not believe you will get it on S1 and Sonos have said no new features for S1.

Spotify connect will be able to cast 16/44 from the app, without a firmware upgrade I do not believe you will get it on S1 and Sonos have said no new features for S1.

Why won't the Sonos app not be able to do this from within S1? Assuming for now what you say about Spotify Connect is correct.

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Spotify connect will be able to cast 16/44 from the app, without a firmware upgrade I do not believe you will get it on S1 and Sonos have said no new features for S1.

Why won't the Sonos app not be able to do this from within S1?

There is a new API which i know is required, but this API works concurrently. This however is for another streaming platform so Sonos may have something else up their sleeve.

If it doesn’t do 16/44, leaving aside what benefits that offers, the OP is entitled to be pissed off.

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I suspect there may need to be a software tweak to S1 to specify a new bitrate to stream. Spotify connect is a welcome workaround though. Assuming they don't change something there too of course. 320 is fine in most rooms. It's just the proper HIFI where I would want 16/44. I run Quboz at the moment but Spotify family would be good.  I think I' might start looking jnto multiroom raspberry pi streaming solutions for the future. I already run a pi3 allo boss with Android bubbleupnp controller for my headphone amp and it sounds fantastic. Only just over £100 too and in my view it out performs the connect DAC.

 

I suppose I could update my only non legacy connect to S2 and have 2 connects on the HiFi to still allow multiplay with the rest of the rooms if needed; seems a bit daft though. Has anyone else split their system to use S2 just on one device?

Has anyone else split their system to use S2 just on one device?

Not sure I get what you mean but split systems cannot talk to each other, as in form one group. Or be controlled by the other Sonos app.

 I think I' might start looking jnto multiroom raspberry pi streaming solutions for the future.

Since Sonos still cannot voice control local NAS, nor offer album art, I have my ripped CDs on a USB stick inserted in a Raspberry. Works brilliantly on voice via an Echo Show 5 that is wired to the line in of a Sonos unit and if I group other Sonos units, the group works fine as well for this source.

I hear no difference in sound quality compared to music from the same files on my regular NAS played via the Sonos controller.

 

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Spotify connect will be able to cast 16/44 from the app, without a firmware upgrade I do not believe you will get it on S1 and Sonos have said no new features for S1.

Why won't the Sonos app not be able to do this from within S1?

The app on Sonos will not play anything, it’s the system that’s playing the music.

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Has anyone else split their system to use S2 just on one device?

Not sure I get what you mean but split systems cannot talk to each other, as in form one group. Or be controlled by the other Sonos app.

I mean run two connects into separate amp channels of the HiFi, one on its own running S2 and the other as part of the an S1 Sonos network. I assume this would work.

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 I think I' might start looking jnto multiroom raspberry pi streaming solutions for the future.

Since Sonos still cannot voice control local NAS, nor offer album art, I have my ripped CDs on a USB stick inserted in a Raspberry. Works brilliantly on voice via an Echo Show 5 that is wired to the line in of a Sonos unit and if I group other Sonos units, the group works fine as well for this source.

I hear no difference in sound quality compared to music from the same files on my regular NAS played via the Sonos controller.

 

That's a neat solution. It's how I play LP's round the house.

Has anyone else split their system to use S2 just on one device?

Not sure I get what you mean but split systems cannot talk to each other, as in form one group. Or be controlled by the other Sonos app.

Not with the Sonos app, but with LMS or SnapCast, split systems can be unified.  Sonos devices are treated like any other UPnP endpoint.  I disliked the original Logitech LMS UI, but with the Material Skin, it transforms into a better UI and overall experience than the Sonos app, IMO.  I’ve rarely if ever used the multi-room synch/grouping of Sonos, so this may not be ideal for those who use it frequently.

When Spotify goes cd quality later this year will the S1 System and legacy players (of which I have many) be able to stream it? I hope so as streaming cd quality Spotify would obviously not be beyond the capabilities of legacy connects and amps which already stream 16/44 Tidal and Qobuz. Please confirm that streaming Spotify HIFI will be possible with S1.

I do feel let down and stranded as a customer when I am constantly worrying if my expensive system that took years to save up for will be the victim of ruthless planned obsolescence by denial of a  software tweak required to keep it functional. If Sonos withhold the ability for these players to stream spotify at 16/44 as a lever try to force existing customers to upgrade to new products it would show considerable contempt and disregard for the loyalty their large historic customer base. Rant over, sorry, but why do I feel pessimistic about this?

 

May I point out that your rant about the awful things Sonos might do is completely speculative and that there is no evidence or reason to believe that they have any intention of behaving as you suggest.

By the way, I have recently upgraded my Amazon Music subscription to CD quality and it appears to work fine on S1 and S2.

Given that Sonos has been able to stream CD quality for years this hardly comes as a surprise. 

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When Spotify goes cd quality later this year will the S1 System and legacy players (of which I have many) be able to stream it? I hope so as streaming cd quality Spotify would obviously not be beyond the capabilities of legacy connects and amps which already stream 16/44 Tidal and Qobuz. Please confirm that streaming Spotify HIFI will be possible with S1.

I do feel let down and stranded as a customer when I am constantly worrying if my expensive system that took years to save up for will be the victim of ruthless planned obsolescence by denial of a  software tweak required to keep it functional. If Sonos withhold the ability for these players to stream spotify at 16/44 as a lever try to force existing customers to upgrade to new products it would show considerable contempt and disregard for the loyalty their large historic customer base. Rant over, sorry, but why do I feel pessimistic about this?

 

May I point out that your rant about the awful things Sonos might do is completely speculative and that there is no evidence or reason to believe that they have any intention of behaving as you suggest.

This is true and I hope I'm wrong. But it is true that Sonos have said that legacy products will not be supported any more except for bug fixes and security patches and that they will receive no new features. If for example Spotify or Tidal change something in their streaming systems that means S1 needs an update to reinstate them (this happened when the BBC switched to HLS streams) would that be a bug fix or a new feature? Would it be fixed or not?

I also accept that the older hardware will not be capable of running new features, that's inevitable. It does not mean older boxes are obsolete though and I think it would be reasonable to expect updates where they are needed to continue an existing service on products that aren't really that old. What is missing often is clarity on these issues. We all end up guessing. If Sonos posted a reply ' yes don't worry customers we'll make sure your legacy connect plays Spotify at 16/44 when it happens and we will ensure that your tidal and Qobuz services continue to function if an update is needed'  then we'd know and wouldn't have to speculate.

Why on Earth would Sonos make themselves hostages to fortune like that? It would be immediately seized on as a precedent for some other enhancement. No chance they will give any such undertaking if it requires any change at all.

 

I thought the messaging was pretty clear. No new features will be put in to S1, only security updates and bug fixes, where possible. All new features will be added to S2. 

By the way, I have recently upgraded my Amazon Music subscription to CD quality and it appears to work fine on S1 and S2.

Given that Sonos has been able to stream CD quality for years this hardly comes as a surprise. 

This suggests that this matter rests on how Spotify implements the change. 

I assume you can also cast the cd quality streams to S1 from the Amazon native app?

Not with the Sonos app, but with LMS or SnapCast, split systems can be unified.  Sonos devices are treated like any other UPnP endpoint.  I disliked the original Logitech LMS UI, but with the Material Skin, it transforms into a better UI and overall experience than the Sonos app, IMO.  I’ve rarely if ever used the multi-room synch/grouping of Sonos, so this may not be ideal for those who use it frequently.

Leaving aside personal preference for other apps, I don't see a big problem with using two Sonos apps for split systems IF people are willing to use them as such. One app would be nice, but two isn't a dealbreaker.

The problem really exists for people that can't get S1 and S2 to do group play, and there seems to be no solution for that.

The other problem with the quoted is that many that are forced to split systems by heavy investment in S1 hardware won't know the way to the kind of solution quoted.

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Why on Earth would Sonos make themselves hostages to fortune like that? It would be immediately seized on as a precedent for some other enhancement. No chance they will give any such undertaking if it requires any change at all.

 

My view is that it would be pretty poor customer service to allow a perfectly functional unit to brick itself so your customers have to buy the new one even if they don't really want to. Also in these environmentally challenging times we should be pioneering new ways to avoid waste not add to it. Not only Sonos are guilty of this nowadays though it's become the norm for phones etc. but traditionally hifi products are expected to last a long time for your money. Unlike cd's, which have a red book standard to ensure functionality with all players, new tech that works on proprietary software leaves us at the mercy of the manufacturers to change, update,  downgrade or end products remotely as they wish without our involvement. At the time of the announcement of S2 when Sonos backed down to the customer outcry and created the option of the split system I emailed the CEO and asked why they couldn't offer an upgrade service for legacy products to extend their lifetime instead of encouraging the throwing away of otherwise perfectly functional hardware. This is not unheard of in the HiFi world, Graham Slee amps and DACs at Hifi System Components provide exactly this service for owners of older products who want an upgrade to new models. I never received a reply. I just think it would be good to see a bit of environmental vision from such an influential company instead of giving products a 5 year supported lifespan.

My view is that it would be pretty poor customer service to allow a perfectly functional unit to brick itself so your customers have to buy the new one even if they don't really want to.

It was a good thing that there was enough customer outrage that for the first time in their history they made a radical reversal - to the stupid bricking policy as it first stood for a few months.

As to the rest of the S1/S2 thing, it has to be said in their defense that they did this only after fifteen years. 

Since I had all bases covered where music play is concerned and did not need any new kit, staying on S1 made perfect sense to me, even more so where most of my players are blessed with line in jacks where the information exchange is the least proprietary - analog electrical signals.

I did learn an important lesson for the future - not to buy bundled smart products, but to use cheap smart front ends on well specced and built but “dumb” kit designed for decades of service life. That way changing the front end even every three-four years isn't a big financial decision. Be it for breakdown, or because there is a much smarter front end out there in that time.

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It will be interesting to see how Volumio multiroom develops for the Pi.