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SAVE THE CR100


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Losing our two CR100s will be the most devastating thing to happen to our household.

My ONE YEAR OLD can play his favourite music by just pushing the button over and over again. My 7 year old will now PESTER ME CONSTANTLY to use my phone whenever he wants to listen to Harry Potter (which is ALL THE TIME)

My parents in law - NEITHER OF WHOM OWN SMARTPHONES will now have to go downstairs and switch on their PC in order to listen to the audiobooks and radio programmes I've given them. They don't use all these 'services', but Sonos is amazing so we built it for them, at great cost for the convenience of having the controller.

My wife won't be able to roll over in bed and hit the volume without blinding us all with your WHITE app in the middle of the night (swipe tap tap tap vs reach and push a button?????)

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DON'T DO THIS SONOS!!!!!

My Children and in-laws are going to HATE me for this.

DO NOT criticise our choices not to use smartphones, or Alexa, or Spotify. Why should we buy new things to make your system work?

PLEASE don't take away the ability to connect we are happy with basic controls?


What am I going to do now? Tell me WHAT?
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Best answer by Ryan S 2 February 2018, 19:08

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3233 replies


JGatie - keep taking what you are given - never strive for better - great attitude for life.


Life is far too short to worry about 12 year old luxury electronics or to stress away over how a billion dollar corporation feels about 0.002% of its customers. I'd rather not tilt at windmills, for there are way too many constructive, relaxing, or charitable things to do with my life than make a "tempest in a teapot" stink over a nameless, faceless corporation that I somehow feel "owes" me something. I either accept it, or vote with my wallet and move on.

And that, in my not so humble opinion, is a "great attitude for life". As always, YMMV! 😃
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JGatie - keep taking what you are given - never strive for better - great attitude for life.


Life is far too short to worry about 12 year old luxury electronics or to stress away over how a billion dollar corporation feels about 0.002% of its customers. I'd rather not tilt at windmills, for there are way too many constructive, relaxing, or charitable things to do with my life than make a "tempest in a teapot" stink over a nameless, faceless corporation that I somehow feel "owes" me something. I either accept it, or vote with my wallet and move on.

And that, in my not so humble opinion, is a "great attitude for life". As always, YMMV! :D


I would whole heartedly agree with you if you hadn't made 16,378 replies on this forum. Including a considerable number in a thread about a topic that you view as tilting at windmills. That can't be constructive, relaxing or charitable. Antagonistic maybe but not that which you apparently strive for. You have spent too much time worrying about the 0.002% of customers. Move on?
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TJRL/F00tS0re,

I obviously think slightly differently to each of you. I am seeing the alternative potential scenario for you, in that it is still quite possible that the old CR100’s you each own, could naturally 'bite the dust' anyway due to their now ageing components and that could well happen (quite easily) in the not too distant future.

If that were to happen, I doubt you would then suddenly consider scrapping and replacing your entire Sonos system. You would most likely accept the controllers natural 'demise' due to age and start to look around for an alternative controller available within today’s market and I think you would agree to pay for the new replacement device out of your own pocket. That’s certainly what I would do too.

So natural demise of hardware due to old age is usually seen by the majority as being 'acceptable', but forced obsolescence, even though these devices are approaching their 'end of life' period, is now causing you both to think in an entirely different way. ....

I cannot speak for F00tS0re, but I can agree that Ken_Griffiths and I see things slightly differently.

Looking at the points raised:-

When one of our CR100s "bites the dust" tomorrow or whenever, I would look to get it repaired or replaced with a second hand unit. Of course neither of these options may be possible, but with 7 CR100s the loss of one at some indeterminate time in the future is not so daunting, losing the use of 7 all at the same time is bit more uncomfortable. - The best option would be for Sonos to release a CR300 :D

"I doubt you would then suddenly consider scrapping and replacing your entire Sonos system."
Well you may indeed doubt it, but that is exactly what we would do, unless there was UI we liked. At present nothing comes close (for Sonos systems).

" I think you would agree to pay for the new replacement device out of your own pocket. That’s certainly what I would do too"
Yes if there was a suitable replacement device (dedicated, non-touch screen & hard buttoned) we would be more than content to purchase them to replace each CR100 as it failed.

"So natural demise of hardware due to old age is usually seen by the majority as being 'acceptable', but forced obsolescence, even though these devices are approaching their 'end of life' period, is now causing you both to think in an entirely different way."
Not sure I agree that 13 year old CR100s "are approaching their 'end of life' period", I have Pioneer HiFi remotes from 1980s that are working just fine.
I would agree that the natural failure of electronic items is normal and acceptable provided it is not within a few months of end of the warranty! I also agree that having to replace 7 units all at the same time has triggered a decision point for us, not really thinking in "an entirely different way" more of "if we are having to junk and replace £2,500 of working kit, do we want to stay with the product, given the change of direction of the product and the behaviour of Sonos?"

So for us the decision is:-

Stay with Sonos and find some sort of replacement controller for our 7 CR100s. - Compromise

OR

1. To sell off our current Sonos kit to those who like App based controllers and accept the direction Sonos is going in.
2. Upgrade our Sonos system to something more reliable, stable and predictable with a dedicated non-touch screen & hard buttoned controller. Which is likely to be a hard wired solution such as Control4.
3. Perhaps look at legal options if at some point in the future any actions by Sonos "robs" us of the use or functionality of our property. - Better experience after initial investment and installation disruption.

In short, Ken_Griffiths raised an interesting perspective on things, but on balance I do not think the natural death of a device at a time is the same as the "all dead together" scenario we are faced with. So it follows that our response to each situation would be different. What would be the same is that we would never purchase any system (music or otherwise) we did not like the UI of. Furthermore there is no way we will accept a UI we do not like. :@

YMMV.
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TJRL/F00tS0re,

I obviously think slightly differently to each of you.


Yes the phrase pessimist springs to mind. Sorry I can't see that realist would even count.

My zone players are old, if all three CR100s fail on the same day then it is highly likely my zone players will go before hand - they are after all operating at a far greater frequency than the CR100. On that fateful day with a bunch of dead zone players I may well look for an alternative system. If they fail over time so be it, I will accept that.

I do not see the benefit in assuming all my old electronic equipment will die - some of it refuses to and I have a long list in this thread of electronic equipment I own that is older than Sonos.
- Touch screen Satnav in a 2001 Toyota LandCruiser.
- VW Phaeton 2006 SatNav and all its technical wizardry.
- iPod Nano
- Home Cinema Amp
- various switches, NAS drives & other IT stuff

So my experience is there is little to no chance of three CR100s failing in the next 5-years.

Importantly who is to say they haven't already failed, and been replaced or repaired. As has been pointed out they are just components on a board. Some of the failures (dried capacitors) are easy to locate and replace. I have a few bits of kit that are older and had running repairs. The pool plant got replaced two years ago after 25-years service (not bad for a heat pump). In that time it had been repaired many many times. Relays, capacitors on motors, compressors, clocks, sensors.

Dying of old age is accepted (stuff beaks)
Voluntary Euthanasia maybe acceptable to some (I can decide I am done)
Capital Punishment to a smaller number (I guess that would be a safety recall)
Murder is accepted by a tiny minority (Someone else decides I am done)

So, yes I accept they are old. Yes I accept they may break. No, I don't fear imminent failure. I know they are safe because Mike Carlino has confirmed in writing they are safe.

I'm an optimist, they have done 12-years sterling work, cosmetically are in good condition, they have been well looked after, and I can easily see another 5-years use.

Equally if I felt that an echo dot, an app, or an alternative controller would replace them for the better I would already have done that.

Edit: What TJRL said.:D
Userlevel 7
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JGatie - keep taking what you are given - never strive for better - great attitude for life.


Life is far too short to worry about 12 year old luxury electronics or to stress away over how a billion dollar corporation feels about 0.002% of its customers. I'd rather not tilt at windmills, for there are way too many constructive, relaxing, or charitable things to do with my life than make a "tempest in a teapot" stink over a nameless, faceless corporation that I somehow feel "owes" me something. I either accept it, or vote with my wallet and move on.

And that, in my not so humble opinion, is a "great attitude for life". As always, YMMV! :D

Good to hear, does that mean that you will not comment further on this thread?

Actually I do agree with the first sentence, other than the 0.002% may even be too high an estimate!! However what has irked me here is that Sonos's behaviour is just plain wrong. Now JGatie and others can (and will no doubt!) justify the Sonos position until the cows come home, but as many have posted more eloquently than I can - This did not have to be done this way.

I do not think that "a nameless, faceless corporation ... "owes" me something", nor I do expect Sonos to take something away from me when (back in the day) they said OS updates would improve MY experience not make then worse.

"I either accept it, or vote with my wallet and move on." - Agreed or more correctly "accept it, or take (and act on?) legal advice and vote with my wallet and move on.
Userlevel 6
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Sign the petition and contact Sonos customer support and let them know what you think.

442 signatures and growing :D

https://www.change.org/p/patrick-spence-ceo-sonos-stop-sonos-from-disabling-the-cr100-controller-from-their-system?recruiter=121008685&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition&utm_term=psf_combo_share_initial.undefined

Also, consider locking down your system to prevent your CR100 controller(s) from being bricked - must be done BEFORE the next Sonos software/firmware update). Checkout my guide here : https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/save-the-cr100-6800510/index86.html#post16220262


I would whole heartedly agree with you if you hadn't made 16,378 replies on this forum. Including a considerable number in a thread about a topic that you view as tilting at windmills. That can't be constructive, relaxing or charitable. Antagonistic maybe but not that which you apparently strive for. You have spent too much time worrying about the 0.002% of customers. Move on?


The vast majority of my 16K replies in this forum are helping people with their purchasing decisions or technical support. For free. That is the very definition of charity. The fact that I get a little antagonistic towards those who are only here to piss and moan is just a side effect of my main reason for being here. So it is you who should move on, I will keep on helping those who need some help.

As to this thread, I haven't posted here in many, many days. In fact, I only really post in here when the rhetoric gets so silly, and the echo chamber gets so insulated, that you folks need a little dose of reality to talk you down to earth.


"I either accept it, or vote with my wallet and move on." - Agreed or more correctly "accept it, or take (and act on?) legal advice and vote with my wallet and move on.


Only one person has posted actual legal advice in this thread, and much to that poster's disappointment, I'm afraid it wasn't too supportive of your side. Have you any actual legal advice which says otherwise? We will be waiting. 😉
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TJRL/F00tS0re,

I obviously think slightly differently to each of you. I am seeing the alternative potential scenario for you, in that it is still quite possible that the old CR100’s you each own, could naturally 'bite the dust' anyway due to their now ageing components and that could well happen (quite easily) in the not too distant future.

If that were to happen, I doubt you would then suddenly consider scrapping and replacing your entire Sonos system. You would most likely accept the controllers natural 'demise' due to age and start to look around for an alternative controller available within today’s market and I think you would agree to pay for the new replacement device out of your own pocket. That’s certainly what I would do too.

So natural demise of hardware due to old age is usually seen by the majority as being 'acceptable', but forced obsolescence, even though these devices are approaching their 'end of life' period, is now causing you both to think in an entirely different way. ....

I cannot speak for F00tS0re, but I can agree that Ken_Griffiths and I see things slightly differently.

Looking at the points raised:-

When one of our CR100s "bites the dust" tomorrow or whenever, I would look to get it repaired or replaced with a second hand unit. Of course neither of these options may be possible, but with 7 CR100s the loss of one at some indeterminate time in the future is not so daunting, losing the use of 7 all at the same time is bit more uncomfortable. - The best option would be for Sonos to release a CR300 :D

"I doubt you would then suddenly consider scrapping and replacing your entire Sonos system."
Well you may indeed doubt it, but that is exactly what we would do, unless there was UI we liked. At present nothing comes close (for Sonos systems).

" I think you would agree to pay for the new replacement device out of your own pocket. That’s certainly what I would do too"
Yes if there was a suitable replacement device (dedicated, non-touch screen & hard buttoned) we would be more than content to purchase them to replace each CR100 as it failed.

"So natural demise of hardware due to old age is usually seen by the majority as being 'acceptable', but forced obsolescence, even though these devices are approaching their 'end of life' period, is now causing you both to think in an entirely different way."
Not sure I agree that 13 year old CR100s "are approaching their 'end of life' period", I have Pioneer HiFi remotes from 1980s that are working just fine.
I would agree that the natural failure of electronic items is normal and acceptable provided it is not within a few months of end of the warranty! I also agree that having to replace 7 units all at the same time has triggered a decision point for us, not really thinking in "an entirely different way" more of "if we are having to junk and replace £2,500 of working kit, do we want to stay with the product, given the change of direction of the product and the behaviour of Sonos?"

So for us the decision is:-

Stay with Sonos and find some sort of replacement controller for our 7 CR100s. - Compromise

OR

1. To sell off our current Sonos kit to those who like App based controllers and accept the direction Sonos is going in.
2. Upgrade our Sonos system to something more reliable, stable and predictable with a dedicated non-touch screen & hard buttoned controller. Which is likely to be a hard wired solution such as Control4.
3. Perhaps look at legal options if at some point in the future any actions by Sonos "robs" us of the use or functionality of our property. - Better experience after initial investment and installation disruption.

In short, Ken_Griffiths raised an interesting perspective on things, but on balance I do not think the natural death of a device at a time is the same as the "all dead together" scenario we are faced with. So it follows that our response to each situation would be different. What would be the same is that we would never purchase any system (music or otherwise) we did not like the UI of. Furthermore there is no way we will accept a UI we do not like. :@

YMMV.


I believe this topic raised a number of questions and brought out a number of thoughts.
Speaking for myself:
I do not care about the "payoff" to toss out my CR100s, its not about the money and I do not need it.
I am offended that ANY company that sold a product for a specific task can at any time decide FOR ME when the item should be tossed out. I made the purchase, I will decide.
We have basically proven that the reasons they give to "kill off" these units is all crap.
the batteries can easily be replaced, and yet, I have also seen NO PROOF that there is an overheating issue considering the great charging/.monitoring circuit I have seen built into the units and the fact that I have pulled out many totally dead batteries that simply stopped working.
the "ailing CPU" excuse is also just that, an excuse. its the same CPU and other parts as found in the ZP100 and likely ZP80, so if those units are also not being "forced retired" for that same reason, then why the CR100.

they simply do not want to continue to support the unit, or perhaps cannot AND make the newer streaming services and system changes at the same time. either way, they are lying to us and created Fear and FUD to push this agenda.

all I am asking for is an officially supported choice. they created this product and have pushed the "sonos experience" since day one. many made their choice on all that, and now that Sonos has decided to "change the experience" I believe they should provide choice.
the "up and coming New-And-Improved Sonos Experience" is not what I purchased nor is it what I want. Funniest thing is the "new" experience is in perpetual beta mode, constantly being "upgraded" and full of bugs, the CR100 ALWAYS WORKED..

Sonos has the "ability" to make this happen, but they are the ones that must decide if they actually care to keep the older product users happy.
If you have no issue with this direction then fine, we will never agree. I have the right to express my thoughts and everyone has their right to decide how they would want to proceed with Sonos based on this "business model"

I love the product, and Use the CR100 daily from waking up in the morning to going back to sleep. I will not change what I am doing until things no longer work, and if Sonos totally abandons the CR100, and it slowly stops working due to their lack of support, then SONOS killed the units, not I. will this impact me? yes, as I have (8) units this will impact the house.

I do not expect any of these units to die a natural death (due to hardware failure) before they die a death of abandonment by Sonos at this point. I see another happy 10 years only if Sonos decides they should allow a Legacy path.
if you are happy giving your money to any company, that would dictate a working life-cycle with no choice given to stay at a certain level, and they continue to assume you are willing to open your wallet again and again then its your choice.

I would suggest that if Sonos originally announced at the start that all the items purchased would "expire" in 10-15 years that they would not have sold many. the $100 voucher does not hurt me today, but I would have never spent the $thousands if this was a published business model.

Sonos Can provide a choice, they elect not to.
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"I either accept it, or vote with my wallet and move on." - Agreed or more correctly "accept it, or take (and act on?) legal advice and vote with my wallet and move on.


Only one person has posted actual legal advice in this thread, and much to that poster's disappointment, I'm afraid it wasn't too supportive of your side. Have you any actual legal advice which says otherwise? We will be waiting. ;)


This is the FUD spread by your much beloved Sonos. The stuff in bold has been highlighted by me.

Sonos Email: 6th Feb
Today we say, “goodbye” to the CR100 – our first controller. Due to its aging technology, the CR100 will no longer connect to your Sonos from April 2018.
We know the CR100 has been an important part of your Sonos experience. Even as we shifted to the Sonos app in 2009, bringing music control to the smartphones that never leave our side, the CR100 has lived on as a coveted, dedicated controller. But more than a decade after its release, the CR100 can no longer support many of the services and functions that are core to the Sonos experience.
More importantly, the controller’s hardware has reached the end of its lifespan.
The CR100 is a unique Sonos product, powered by an internal lithium ion battery. Across devices and industries, aging lithium ion batteries have the potential to overheat when left charging. For this reason, we can no longer continue to support the CR100, even in a limited way.
What does that mean?
1.
Disconnect your CR100 from its charger, unplug the cradle, and safely and responsibly recycle both components. Drop them off at your local e-waste recycling centre, or we can help you dispose of your unit at no extra cost.


Support Email Dated 8th Feb
Good morning Dave,

Thank you for contacting Sonos Customer Care.

I'm sorry to hear about your frustration with our decision to withdraw the CR100. This decision was not taken lightly and is in response to research carried out on the device.

We have never had a recall and are proactive when it comes to potential issues with our products. We've never done anything similar to the CR100 given the unique situation. When safety is in question, we will do whatever we can to mitigate the risk and help find a better solution.

In early April, the controller will no longer connect to your Sonos system. Our primary concern is the controller’s integrated lithium ion battery. Aging lithium ion batteries have the potential to become overheated when left charging for extended periods of time. In the case of the CR100, this could cause the plastic casing of the CR100 to melt over years of use, creating a potential safety risk. The age of the CR100 and its internal components, specifically the integrated lithium ion battery, compelled us to take this action.



Email from Mike Carlino 4th April
Hello Dave,

To answer your three questions, the CR100 battery is safe, the voucher offer for the CR100s is formally one (1) voucher per household but we can make exceptions, and as mentioned in a previous email, it's your choice to remain at the current release (noting the caveats and risk in future updates) so that you can continue to use your CR100s.

Sincerely,
Mike


I provided appropriate UK product safety legislation to Sonos as they deemed the product dangerous in their press releases, and customer service responses to frighten consumers into tossing the CR100 to meet Sonos objectives.

When challenged they have admitted the so called dangerous battery is safe. This whole issue has been about FUD. Your much beloved Sonos may not be being entirely open with you the consumer. You seem really pleased with that.
So that would be a "No" to the question about getting "actual" legal advice?
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"I either accept it, or vote with my wallet and move on." - Agreed or more correctly "accept it, or take (and act on?) legal advice and vote with my wallet and move on.


Only one person has posted actual legal advice in this thread, and much to that poster's disappointment, I'm afraid it wasn't too supportive of your side. Have you any actual legal advice which says otherwise? We will be waiting. ;)

I have not needed to take legal advice as Sonos have not done anything to harm me. If that changes I may decide (or otherwise) to take legal advice and dependent on that advice we may (or may not) instigate an action. However what is certain is that we will not purchase or retain a system with a poor UI. :8

"Only one person has posted actual legal advice in this thread, and much to that poster's disappointment, I'm afraid it wasn't too supportive of your side."
I do not have "a side", I just want to stay as I am and for my purchases to stay as they are. However I did note the legal advice taken was not based on the questions I would have sort legal advice on. :D

"We will be waiting."
Of course you can do what you want (within the law), only please do not hold your breath on my account, as I do not spend £15,000 to £20,000 without spend a lot to time checking things out first!
"Sonos have not done anything to harm me."

But they will in a week. You'd have thought something this serious would have the class seeking preemptive legal advice that would be beneficial to getting Sonos to see the light? Or is it the case that the class knows they don't have a legal leg to stand on (as was stated when someone actually sought legal advice) and this is all just silly posturing?
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So that would be a "No" to the question about getting "actual" legal advice?

No, that would be a yes. I asked for legal advice regarding whether a manufacturer could simply state a device was dangerous due to its age and wipe their hands of it and expect users to cease using it. I was informed that the safety legislation has no time barrier, and the manufacturer should issue a formal recall. Sonos know I am still using it.

Since that time the product has become safe again. See Mike's email. Imagine that. As it is a safe product that legal area isn't in doubt anymore.

I haven't sort legal advice about enforced upgrades rendering a product obsolete. If that happens I will seek appropriate advice at that time.

Although by utilising SonosPhone I may be able to use both an app & a CR100 on an ongoing basis.

The liability for the CR100 safety remains with Sonos. I took legal advice on that as well. After all it is safe.
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2nd email away to Patrick Spence and Mike Carlino.

Basically, it's the original forwarded along with the following:

Dear Patrick and Mike,

I am forwarding this email originally sent to you on Wednesday 28th March as it seems you might have missed it first time around. (Patrick, I am aware that you were on vacation at the time)

Since the original email was sent, the "Save the CR100" forum count has now risen to 2289 posts over 92 pages whilst the petition active at change.org now has 444 signatures.

Also, in the past week, there have been several new users posting on the forum who have only just heard about the proposed changes ahead and are expressing their concerns.

As such, we would be grateful for a timely response from you as we are aware that firmware version 8.5 will be released next week.

We look forward to your reply.
Userlevel 6
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Sign the petition and contact Sonos customer support and let them know what you think.

442 signatures and growing :D

https://www.change.org/p/patrick-spence-ceo-sonos-stop-sonos-from-disabling-the-cr100-controller-from-their-system?recruiter=121008685&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition&utm_term=psf_combo_share_initial.undefined

Also, consider locking down your system to prevent your CR100 controller(s) from being bricked - must be done BEFORE the next Sonos software/firmware update). Checkout my guide here : https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/save-the-cr100-6800510/index86.html#post16220262


Just a quick comment, you might instead want to say "must be done by the end of this week" or words to that effect

Cheers
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"Sonos have not done anything to harm me."

But they will in a week. You'd have thought something this serious would have the class seeking preemptive legal advice that would be beneficial to getting Sonos to see the light? Or is it the case that the class knows they don't have a legal leg to stand on (as was stated when someone actually sought legal advice) and this is all just silly posturing?

I am not sure what your agenda is here, are you trying to drum up some sort of legal action against Sonos or what? :?

My position is pretty clear:-

1 We intend to lock down our Sonos system on OS 8.4, whilst looking at alternatives.
2 IF at some point in the future we accidentally update the OS to one that disables our CR100s (and there is no way back to 8.4) or have to update the OS in order to keep our network safe AND there is no good alternative to the CR100 available at that time, THEN and only then will we feel that Sonos have harmed us. I really hope not to be in this position this year let alone "in a week"!!

Of course if we find a good alternative to Sonos whilst still running 8.4 we should be able to sell off our Sonos components and redeploy the funds released to help towards a bit of the cost of that alternative. Again this would have nothing to do with Sonos or 8.5 so no legal advice or action needed.

"You'd have thought something this serious would have the class seeking preemptive legal advice that would be beneficial to getting Sonos to see the light?"
No I would not think that at all!! Preemptive legal advice on some, yet to happen, change of control of a music system (so first world problem) would not seem to be something that would influence Sonos's actions. Sonos will already have their legal advice and will have provisions accrued to pay for this transition (cost of vouchers and perhaps the cost of settling out of court or fighting any legal actions, etc.). They will not "see the light" just because someone found some solicitor to advise that there could be a possible legal grounds to take Sonos to court. to even suggest this would seem to be "silly".

"Is it the case that the class knows they don't have a legal leg to stand on (as was stated when someone actually sought legal advice) and this is all just silly posturing?"
I have some reason to think that there might be a good legal case to put to Sonos, so I could not say that I "know I do not have a legal leg to stand on". I can certainly say (and I think my many previous posts would support this) that I am not posturing in any way "silly" or otherwise.
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"Sonos have not done anything to harm me."

But they will in a week. You'd have thought something this serious would have the class seeking preemptive legal advice that would be beneficial to getting Sonos to see the light? Or is it the case that the class knows they don't have a legal leg to stand on (as was stated when someone actually sought legal advice) and this is all just silly posturing?


Jog on, little man. I'm not sure you're living up to your "charitable" objectives.

T
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The good news is that Sonos gave us warning (unlike previous upgrades) and I hence hope everyone that wanted to lock down their systems managed to do so in time. It is unfortunate that such users will have to dig through mountains of posts here to review all their options, something that Sonos could have done if they were serious about giving users a choice.

Additionally, it would have been trivial for Sonos to offer a "legacy-only" system as the infrastructure (i.e the beta program) is already in place. But that would require a corporate rethink re: treating users like valued customers, not just revenue generators. I'm not going to be adding new Sonos gear here.

The company appears to be solely focused on a rent-seeking model in the streaming space. Hence, while users who ask for a upgrade to the known-unsafe SMB1v1 network stack are given lip service ("we're aware" and all that), they get no commitment. Awareness != a desire to actually do something. After all, there may be 20 more lucrative things to tackle first.

Lastly, mistreating us early adopters will eventually backfire on the company. The competition is not sleeping on the job, they have figured out a number of weak spots. Ironically, focus groups aren't even needed, the Sonos community forums are filled with suggestions that Sonos will never bring to market.
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The good news is that Sonos gave us warning (unlike previous upgrades) and I hence hope everyone that wanted to lock down their systems managed to do so in time. It is unfortunate that such users will have to dig through mountains of posts here to review all their options, something that Sonos could have done if they were serious about giving users a choice.

Additionally, it would have been trivial for Sonos to offer a "legacy-only" system as the infrastructure (i.e the beta program) is already in place. But that would require a corporate rethink re: treating users like valued customers, not just revenue generators. I'm not going to be adding new Sonos gear here.

The company appears to be solely focused on a rent-seeking model in the streaming space. Hence, while users who ask for a upgrade to the known-unsafe SMB1v1 network stack are given lip service ("we're aware" and all that), they get no commitment. Awareness != a desire to actually do something. After all, there may be 20 more lucrative things to tackle first.

Lastly, mistreating us early adopters will eventually backfire on the company. The competition is not sleeping on the job, they have figured out a number of weak spots. Ironically, focus groups aren't even needed, the Sonos community forums are filled with suggestions that Sonos will never bring to market.


Constantin

funny you should mention the SMBV1 issue, based on what I have read I think after they kill the CR100 you might see the SMB Issue finally get fixed. However, if that does not happen it would then look like they really are moving away from "local file storage" and going 100% to streaming service.
not quite sure why I came to the thought that the SMBV1 issue could only be resolved by shutting down the CR100 communication, but something put that together while reading other users complaints and "new feature" announcements.
remember, they are not bricking the CR100's (that could have been a field day for the legal types) they are changing (or tightening) the protocols used by the players in how they talk to everything else.
just a gut feeling, and of course, I could be wrong, if so, I am sure the authorities on the board will let me know it.
would still not be a valid reason to kill the CR100 for me, I can use SMBV1 behind my firewall to serve music all day and i will not worry about it.
Would like to have the option to STOP Sonos from screwing up my system with features I do not want and removing features I do.


funny you should mention the SMBV1 issue, based on what I have read I think after they kill the CR100 you might see the SMB Issue finally get fixed. However, if that does not happen it would then look like they really are moving away from "local file storage" and going 100% to streaming service.


Unlikely, given that Spence has recently stated that he wants to add voice-control of your local files.
Userlevel 3
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Suspect RyanS and Sonos have given up on this thread?

“Piss” moderated from the demonstrators but not the supporters.
Personal attacks on both sides unmoderated.
Antagonism from supporters unmoderated.
Userlevel 3
Badge +1
And, as the poster of the so called legal advice some comments.

Legal advice is different to legal judgment. Ask another lawyer you may get different advice. Ask a different question you almost certainly get different advice. It was posted only as FYI so that others know that agency was consulted. To read all of that post you would also,have read that that agency struggled to understand the concept and and what the problem was. Time was running out to act before sonos did.

I eventually made my decision because I did not want the hassle of dicking about with my router and constantly worrying about updates.

I reached for my Cr100 yesterday to turn on some tunes. It was missing from its cradle still mounted, waiting, in mourning. iPad no sonos network detected. iPhone no sonos network detected. PC no sonos network detected. All made me so sad when internet was still running on all these devices. Rebooted the switch it is connected to and it came back but the urge had left me.

So sad. Damage done.

Two controller stuck on 8.4 and batteries deliberately drained just in case a door is opened in future.
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I would whole heartedly agree with you if you hadn't made 16,378 replies on this forum. Including a considerable number in a thread about a topic that you view as tilting at windmills. That can't be constructive, relaxing or charitable. Antagonistic maybe but not that which you apparently strive for. You have spent too much time worrying about the 0.002% of customers. Move on?


The vast majority of my 16K replies in this forum are helping people with their purchasing decisions or technical support. For free. That is the very definition of charity. The fact that I get a little antagonistic towards those who are only here to piss and moan is just a side effect of my main reason for being here. So it is you who should move on, I will keep on helping those who need some help.

As to this thread, I haven't posted here in many, many days. In fact, I only really post in here when the rhetoric gets so silly, and the echo chamber gets so insulated, that you folks need a little dose of reality to talk you down to earth.


The majority of posters in this thread are simply people who listen to their music using the equipment that they bought and paid for in the manner that they bought the systems for in the first place.

They don't spend their lives on internet forums posting on subjects that they have no real concern about and have only emerged posting on here because of an action imposed on them that has a real effect on their usage of their own legal property.

That does not make them people that are only here to piss and moan, they are only here in the first place because it is a forum where people can express concerns and these people have concerns.

Who are you to decide that these people need a little dose of reality? If Carlsbeg did condescension they would have a hard time keeping up with you.

You and the other mega posters what do you do for fun?

People have already requested that you turn your attention elsewhere but it looks like you just can't help yourself.

Sonos support who have been MIA for the majority of this debacle feel free to butt in and delete whatever you want .....it seems like thats your only contribution so far ........
Userlevel 7
Badge +5
Sign the petition and contact Sonos customer support and let them know what you think.

442 signatures and growing :D

https://www.change.org/p/patrick-spence-ceo-sonos-stop-sonos-from-disabling-the-cr100-controller-from-their-system?recruiter=121008685&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition&utm_term=psf_combo_share_initial.undefined

Also, consider locking down your system to prevent your CR100 controller(s) from being bricked - must be done BEFORE the next Sonos software/firmware update). Checkout my guide here : https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/save-the-cr100-6800510/index86.html#post16220262


A thought occurred to me recently.... I know 'some' of us already have opened support cases with Sonos, mostly it would appear to little effect other than to have the case closed with the standard party line as the 'resolution'

But has every one of the 442 signatories opened a case with support? - might that make a more noticeable blip on Sonos' radar than this thread, which it seems that apart from very occasional attention from Ryan S, Sonos are paying absolutely no attention to?

I presume that since they do have a formal support operation, that they will be taking metrics from it, and potentially have board level representation for the support part of the organisation.

Several people have said things along the lines of "wouldn't want to be in Sonos' support dept, come the big day"... - why wait until then? - why not mount a sustained campaign of raising support requests - perhaps with a boilerplate title & issue description that we can agree between ourselves (like "the letter")...

Maybe, just maybe, a flood of many hundreds of near-identical support cases bemoaning their current course of action might garner more attention? - Of course it may very well garner no more productive outcome than the current parroting of the same-old same-old (which on past evidence seems depressingly likely), but even so, it would have to at least get 'some' attention right? - just to acknowledge a spike in the monthly stats?

We could even keep re-opening the cases if they keep just being closed with the same "tough luck" response... then the stats might get even more of a spike...

Ikrananka, do you think it would be worthwhile adding an additional strapline to your regular post with the URL for the support page, details of how to log a case, and perhaps the boilerplate items I mentioned above?