Answered

SAVE THE CR100


Userlevel 5
Badge +8
  • Enthusiast II
  • 325 replies
Losing our two CR100s will be the most devastating thing to happen to our household.

My ONE YEAR OLD can play his favourite music by just pushing the button over and over again. My 7 year old will now PESTER ME CONSTANTLY to use my phone whenever he wants to listen to Harry Potter (which is ALL THE TIME)

My parents in law - NEITHER OF WHOM OWN SMARTPHONES will now have to go downstairs and switch on their PC in order to listen to the audiobooks and radio programmes I've given them. They don't use all these 'services', but Sonos is amazing so we built it for them, at great cost for the convenience of having the controller.

My wife won't be able to roll over in bed and hit the volume without blinding us all with your WHITE app in the middle of the night (swipe tap tap tap vs reach and push a button?????)

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DON'T DO THIS SONOS!!!!!

My Children and in-laws are going to HATE me for this.

DO NOT criticise our choices not to use smartphones, or Alexa, or Spotify. Why should we buy new things to make your system work?

PLEASE don't take away the ability to connect we are happy with basic controls?


What am I going to do now? Tell me WHAT?
icon

Best answer by Ryan S 2 February 2018, 19:08

View original

This topic has been closed for further comments. You can use the search bar to find a similar topic, or create a new one by clicking Create Topic at the top of the page.

3233 replies

Userlevel 4
Badge
PS I should say that I'm not a Luddite and I would like one or two of the voice recognition products, e.g. echo dot and Sonos Ones, if only as a toy - however, voice recognition service is still not officially supported here in Turkey - so no point! (yes I do know that I can probably pay for a VPN service, buy product in UK or US, set it up there, bring it back, etc, etc, and it may work if I really, really, really wanted it to) - Family members in UK did buy Sonos Ones for Christmas on my recommendation, but they were all returned to the shop as unfortunately they didn't live up to expectation and they found it quite a frustrating experience. The general consensus was - nice idea, but an unfinished product and not quite there yet - so I'm in no rush - pretty hard to buy here anyway, and importing can be expensive/difficult (at the airport last year, I was charged 250 euro cash by corrupt customs officials for bringing one of my 10 year old ZP100s into the country from my UK home - it was pay up or lose it - but that's another story)

Even if I did have one of these voice activated devices I would still keep my CR100 - it just does what it says on the tin, it doesn't get things wrong, and is perfectly adequate for most of my needs.

SAVE THE CR100!
Userlevel 5
Badge +5
Aside from the upcoming loss of my CR100s (yes, I blocked the update but who knows how long that will last?)...I am worried that if SONOS is "allowed" to make the unilateral decision to trash perfectly working hardware in favor of new "services" that I don't even want, what is to stop them from deciding to stop allowing us to use SONOS as a file player? After all, "Services" is the new buzzword, the new way forward, the new way to make money...they don't make money when I play my owned files off my NAS, which is 95% of my use of my system and really the main reason I bought the system in the first place. They could just decide they are not going to support me playing my owned files going forward and cut me off...and poof, the rest of my SONOS setup is useless to me.

I'm not even so much worried about them deciding to off my ZP80 to the trash pile, which seems likely since they will have precedent with the CR100, but to take away this major functionality of playing files that I use daily on all of my system will be easy...just because it no longer fits their business plan...same as how my CR100 no longer fits their business plan, they one day decide not to support it. Because I am no longer a factor in the decision making regarding the equipment I own and spent good money on, I get zero control. They will get to force me either into dumping SONOS entirely, or buy into a service (which I won't do because there is no service that plays the music I use for classes). Their business plan: make money, and continue to make money. And keep making money, even after the hardware was sold, by changing the hardware's function.

Slippery slope. 😞
Userlevel 4
Badge
john,
If you can find a VDSL Modem with a Firewall (or filtering ability) then that would work.
I work with some Tp-Link units, they are decent. Check this link out RE: filtering a URL address on TP-Link
https://www.tp-link.com/lk/faq-273.html
-------------------------------------------
Thanks Steve
- the vender VDSL modem (Airties) only lasted a month or so before being fried by lighting down the phone line - so bought a VR900 from UK mainly for its VDSL, giga and AC wifi and locked out vendor support.

I put "update.sonos.com" in the blacklist under parental controls and hope that is enough for now (not sure it is!) I will look locally tomorrow for a VDSL modem with full firewall features to put between phone line and the VR900 router, so that I can block port 4444 as well.

Nite all - 2:45am here - away to bed - i shall be dreaming of a world free from Sonos related aggro! (oops did I say that out loud!)

SAVE THE CR100!
Userlevel 4
Badge +9
Aside from the upcoming loss of my CR100s (yes, I blocked the update but who knows how long that will last?)...I am worried that if SONOS is "allowed" to make the unilateral decision to trash perfectly working hardware in favor of new "services" that I don't even want, what is to stop them from deciding to stop allowing us to use SONOS as a file player? After all, "Services" is the new buzzword, the new way forward, the new way to make money...they don't make money when I play my owned files off my NAS, which is 95% of my use of my system and really the main reason I bought the system in the first place. They could just decide they are not going to support me playing my owned files going forward and cut me off...and poof, the rest of my SONOS setup is useless to me.


Sonos doesn't make money from streaming services, streaming services do so you shouldn't worry about that.
Userlevel 6
Badge +5
Sonos doesn't make money from streaming services, streaming services do so you shouldn't worry about that.

At the present time that statement may be true. Just as we presently have the option to opt-out of telemetry being sent back to the mothership.

All that can change in the future. What we do know is that Sonos has little to no income potential (even in the future) when it comes to home-hosted content. Hence, little to no efforts are made there to improve our experience (SMB3, anyone?). Streaming and the monetization of user data does have future income potential, however. Hence, that's been the focus of Sonos - adding all streaming services they can.

Being able to interact with all the different flavors of Siri, Alexa, Dot, etc. is also important - every point of contact / gateway / whatever is a potential toll gate in the future to collect referral fees. As long as there is credible competition, the cost will be zero. Once a player becomes dominant, expect rent-seeking (Microsoft, Adobe, etc.).

Sonos has a long history of practically enforcing firmware upgrades, sometimes with the effect that content that used to be available disappeared. There is no reason to believe that Sonos could try and collect rent in the future. On a referral / access basis, that's only really possible on the streaming side of the business.
Userlevel 6
Badge +5
As far as that port blocking / firewall document that Sonos put out here:

https://sonos.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/692?_ga=2.81614110.80775529.1520702925-1210352229.1517409806

That seems to focus on what to open in home PC firewall to allow the Sonos App to work on it - which is not necessarily how our home gear interacts with Sonos.com and all its sub-domains.

Blocking TCP Port 4444 and/or update.sonos.com seems to do the trick - at least for now. Back in thread section 57 I have a list of additional sub domains that I blackholed at the router level.

When I have more time, I'll try to wireshark the transactions.
Userlevel 5
Badge +5
Aside from the upcoming loss of my CR100s (yes, I blocked the update but who knows how long that will last?)...I am worried that if SONOS is "allowed" to make the unilateral decision to trash perfectly working hardware in favor of new "services" that I don't even want, what is to stop them from deciding to stop allowing us to use SONOS as a file player? After all, "Services" is the new buzzword, the new way forward, the new way to make money...they don't make money when I play my owned files off my NAS, which is 95% of my use of my system and really the main reason I bought the system in the first place. They could just decide they are not going to support me playing my owned files going forward and cut me off...and poof, the rest of my SONOS setup is useless to me.


Sonos doesn't make money from streaming services, streaming services do so you shouldn't worry about that.


How do you know that SONOS gets no kickback from agreements with streaming services? I find it *really* hard to believe that they would basically offer up their "mailing list" of tried and true customers to streaming services companies for free...now or in the future...there's a lot of money to be made there, there has got to be a financial incentive involved. Do you know for a fact that nobody at SONOS is an owner of any of these streaming services? (would this info even be publicly available?) Just being an owner or stockholder of a streaming service is kickback enough, SONOS customers served right up to them ready for those monthly payments.
Userlevel 5
Badge +3
An Echo Dot does a better job than the CR100 for a good chunk of your list...

I don't agree with this comment.

T
Userlevel 7
Badge +8
An Echo Dot does a better job than the CR100 for a good chunk of your list...

Great. So does my butler, far easier for him to turn the stuff off but he doesn't work on Fridays. And I don't find the Echo Dot does any of the list better - and that is a fact.

That which is claimed without any evidence is easy to refute without any evidence.

You seem to love your lovely little dot, please go and start a thread on it.
Userlevel 7
Badge +8

Sonos doesn't make money from streaming services, streaming services do so you shouldn't worry about that.


Evidence please. Are you the Sonos CFO or Accountant?

And while your at it can you provide evidence that they don't hope to make revenue from streams in the future. Will be you willing to provide a guarantee. That will be a no then. Thanks for your best guess.

Dave
Userlevel 7
Badge +11
An Echo Dot does a better job than the CR100 for a good chunk of your list...
Well it can do some of the list (not sure I would agree it does a "better job") but it can only really do; 1, 4, 5, 7 (perhaps) and 14 (second part only), so some rather than a "good chunk".

And for items 4, 5 and 7 I am not sure having someone speaking is really a great option. Yes our guests could change the music using an Echo Dot but that would interrupt the conversation others in the room may be having.

Long post short - An Echo Dot or App based controller can control Sonos, just not as well as CR100 - So "SAVE THE CR100".
Userlevel 7
Badge +11
Sonos doesn't make money from streaming services ....
Or more correctly "Sonos doesn't make money from streaming services today" 🙂
Evidence please. Are you the Sonos CFO or Accountant?

And while your at it can you provide evidence that they don't hope to make revenue from streams in the future. Will be you willing to provide a guarantee. That will be a no then. Thanks for your best guess.

Dave

How's that affecting the CR100 in the here and now?
Userlevel 4
Badge +9

Sonos doesn't make money from streaming services, streaming services do so you shouldn't worry about that.


Evidence please. Are you the Sonos CFO or Accountant?

And while your at it can you provide evidence that they don't hope to make revenue from streams in the future. Will be you willing to provide a guarantee. That will be a no then. Thanks for your best guess.

Dave


- Sonos has stated so, that's for you to believe or not
- Sonos has also stated they have never and will never sell user information to any 3rd party, again for you to believe or not

And it doesn't make sense:
Music service subscriptions are directly with that music service, not through Sonos.
Most music services aren't profitable at all and some are even competitors to Sonos (Apple, Google, Amazon), you really think they pay Sonos to have their service play on Sonos?
If Sonos would do that most services probably wouldn't be available on Sonos, so that's not really in their interest is it?
Userlevel 7
Badge +11
Evidence please. Are you the Sonos CFO or Accountant?

And while your at it can you provide evidence that they don't hope to make revenue from streams in the future. Will be you willing to provide a guarantee. That will be a no then. Thanks for your best guess.

Dave

How's that affecting the CR100 in the here and now?

nyCecilia's post at the top of the page was on topic and included some interesting thoughts that others tried to brush aside. This was spotted and number of people including me offered comments on this.

So the original post was about trying to saving the CR100 here and now or more correctly before the next OS update! 😉
Userlevel 7
Badge +2

Sonos doesn't make money from streaming services, streaming services do so you shouldn't worry about that.


Evidence please. Are you the Sonos CFO or Accountant?

And while your at it can you provide evidence that they don't hope to make revenue from streams in the future. Will be you willing to provide a guarantee. That will be a no then. Thanks for your best guess.

Dave


- Sonos has stated so, that's for you to believe or not
- Sonos has also stated they have never and will never sell user information to any 3rd party, again for you to believe or not

And it doesn't make sense:
Music service subscriptions are directly with that music service, not through Sonos.
Most music services aren't profitable at all and some are even competitors to Sonos (Apple, Google, Amazon), you really think they pay Sonos to have their service play on Sonos?
If Sonos would do that most services probably wouldn't be available on Sonos, so that's not really in their interest is it?


I would also remind everyone that Sonos stated we MUST trash the CR100 due to a Battery Fire Hazard (Fear)
and the unit is failing due to an AGING CPU (Fud)

so, are we to really believe everything Sonos tells us?
Userlevel 7
Badge +5
An Echo Dot does a better job than the CR100 for a good chunk of your list...
Cheers - noted but I don't own one


Also been previously mentioned (by me), but consistently overlooked (by some), the Echo devices are not supported and not officially available in all territories.

Amazon do not operate in any Scandinavian countries for example, there is no Amazon.NO or Amazon.SE, and so on... - take a look here if you want proof; https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=202207000

Although there is an "international version" the only languages available (on that list) are English and German....
Sonos is sold here in Scandinavia... - I've bought 2 Play:1's in Norway for example.
I've had to import my Echo devices from the UK, and they only work in English...
Which is fine for the English-speaking world, but what's everyone else supposed to do?
English, although widely spoken & understood here - particularly by the younger generations, is not the official language, and is most assuredly not universally understood. In my day to day experience I come across people who do not (or do not like to) speak English. Also, the older generations just can't as they weren't taught it at school. - my Mother -in-law knows barely more that a few words of English, so she is totally unable to use an English-only voice assistant to control Sonos. She can, and does, however, use our CR100's perfectly happily.

When Alexa works in just 2 languages, what are people supposed to do in the rest of the world where Sonos sell their wares?
Are you going to tell the French that they *have* to speak English to control their speakers? - good luck with that one!

This is just one example of the short-sighted, parochial attitude of those who continually cover their ears and go "LA-LA-LA-I'm-Not-Listening" when confronted with perfectly rational, reasoned, and factually correct justifications as to why the current generation of voice assistants are NOT the be-all-and-end-all to the argument of our choice of control mechanism for our systems.

I suppose I should also pre-empt the inevitable "but the CR100 is only in English too" tropes that will probably be hurled back at me... That is true (AFAIK), but also largely irrelevant. The on-screen menus utilise an exceedingly limited vocabulary, can be memorised by position, and don't even need to be used for basic transport & volume functions - the play/pause/stop/vol iconography used on the hard buttons is as near to globally universal as anything is possible to get. As an IT consultant who has worked for customers all over the world, I can tell you, that I don't struggle too much, after a bit of orientation, to work on GUI based systems in other languages... Windows UI's are pretty recognisable in any language, and so it is with the far-more limited UI elements on a CR100.
Userlevel 3
Badge
An Echo Dot does a better job than the CR100 for a good chunk of your list...
This is a nonsense statement. The Echo Dot can't deal with selecting music from a NAS so is automatically useless, for me at least.
Userlevel 3
Badge
Here's what I would like Sonos to do - release the next "upgrade" (or downgrade, depending on your viewpoint) with a choice given:
1) Proceed with the update - which effectively bins your CR100
2) Don't proceed with the update - in which case Sonos LOCKS YOUR SYSTEM FOR YOU AGAINST FUTURE UPDATES

We shouldn't have to get techy - even if we are - Sonos should do the dirty work for us, properly
Userlevel 7
Badge +2
An Echo Dot does a better job than the CR100 for a good chunk of your list...
Cheers - noted but I don't own one


Also been previously mentioned (by me), but consistently overlooked (by some), the Echo devices are not supported and not officially available in all territories.

Amazon do not operate in any Scandinavian countries for example, there is no Amazon.NO or Amazon.SE, and so on... - take a look here if you want proof; https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=202207000

Although there is an "international version" the only languages available (on that list) are English and German....
Sonos is sold here in Scandinavia... - I've bought 2 Play:1's in Norway for example.
I've had to import my Echo devices from the UK, and they only work in English...
Which is fine for the English-speaking world, but what's everyone else supposed to do?
English, although widely spoken & understood here - particularly by the younger generations, is not the official language, and is most assuredly not universally understood. In my day to day experience I come across people who do not (or do not like to) speak English. Also, the older generations just can't as they weren't taught it at school. - my Mother -in-law knows barely more that a few words of English, so she is totally unable to use an English-only voice assistant to control Sonos. She can, and does, however, use our CR100's perfectly happily.

When Alexa works in just 2 languages, what are people supposed to do in the rest of the world where Sonos sell their wares?
Are you going to tell the French that they *have* to speak English to control their speakers? - good luck with that one!

This is just one example of the short-sighted, parochial attitude of those who continually cover their ears and go "LA-LA-LA-I'm-Not-Listening" when confronted with perfectly rational, reasoned, and factually correct justifications as to why the current generation of voice assistants are NOT the be-all-and-end-all to the argument of our choice of control mechanism for our systems.

I suppose I should also pre-empt the inevitable "but the CR100 is only in English too" tropes that will probably be hurled back at me... That is true (AFAIK), but also largely irrelevant. The on-screen menus utilise an exceedingly limited vocabulary, can be memorised by position, and don't even need to be used for basic transport & volume functions - the play/pause/stop/vol iconography used on the hard buttons is as near to globally universal as anything is possible to get. As an IT consultant who has worked for customers all over the world, I can tell you, that I don't struggle too much, after a bit of orientation, to work on GUI based systems in other languages... Windows UI's are pretty recognisable in any language, and so it is with the far-more limited UI elements on a CR100.


BUT PAUL,
will the CR100 work in every country?? and even if the internet is down?

Of course it will.

And by the way, check the advanced settings of the CR100, there is a Language option you would see upon factory reset OR if you go to advanced settings.... so it DOES speak multiple languages.....
Userlevel 6
Badge +1
Sign the petition and contact Sonos customer support and let them know what you think.

377 signatures and growing :D

https://www.change.org/p/patrick-spence-ceo-sonos-stop-sonos-from-disabling-the-cr100-controller-from-their-system?recruiter=121008685&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition&utm_term=psf_combo_share_initial.undefined

Also, consider locking down your system to prevent your CR100 controller(s) from being bricked - must be done before the end of March (or the next Sonos update). Checkout my guide here : https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/save-the-cr100-6800510/index70.html#post16217266
Userlevel 7
Badge +8

Sonos doesn't make money from streaming services, streaming services do so you shouldn't worry about that.


Evidence please. Are you the Sonos CFO or Accountant?

And while your at it can you provide evidence that they don't hope to make revenue from streams in the future. Will be you willing to provide a guarantee. That will be a no then. Thanks for your best guess.

Dave


- Sonos has stated so, that's for you to believe or not
- Sonos has also stated they have never and will never sell user information to any 3rd party, again for you to believe or not


According to the popular press:
- Facebook have made statements that weren't quite accurate I believe
- Lance Armstrong has also made statements that weren't quite accurate
- Apple were economical with the truth as regards batteries/slowing down phones

Specifically, with regards to Sonos. I have an email from Sonos telling me the battery is dangerous and to unplug this asap. When challenged with a recall this quickly became ageing/incompatible components. There is a thread on here where Ryan specifically states the batteries are safe (ignoring inherent risk in everything).

They have also told me it is impossible to have two apps on the app store yet they have a beta one and a normal one.

So, excuse me if I don't believe everything Sonos tell me.

Have they ever given away your data as opposed to sell it? Remember Facebook issues over data privacy, I know it was a long time ago but still.


And it doesn't make sense:
1. Music service subscriptions are directly with that music service, not through Sonos.
2. Most music services aren't profitable at all and some are even competitors to Sonos (Apple, Google, Amazon), you really think they pay Sonos to have their service play on Sonos?
3. If Sonos would do that most services probably wouldn't be available on Sonos, so that's not really in their interest is it?

I added numbers for clarity

1. Ever heard of commission - they don't have to be paid directly. And the payment may be made in different ways so as to avoid it being directly for streaming services. It could be an annual payment made for backhaul support. Trust me commission payments have been lied about before (not by Sonos to my knowledge). It could be a once payment for 'development'. I don't know if Sonos have or haven't, but those music subscription services will be paying for all sorts stuff (Storage, rights, transmission, software)

2. Non-profitable companies make payments all the time. Competitors make payments to each other where they use each others services. Who hosts Netflix videos, go on, you will never guess, go on, go on.........the suspense is killing me....Google it (no that wasn't clue).........Amazon Ta Da. Aren't they competitors in the video streaming market and Amazon are not hosting for free so Netflix are paying Amazon.

3. Why wouldn't they if they perceive any of the following to be true - Sonos have a customer base that cannot be attained any other way. Sonos have a market share that is too large to ignore. The value of growing revenue outweighs the cost of the commission to Sonos.

Quite frankly this lot is basically 'doing business'.
Userlevel 7
Badge +8
Evidence please. Are you the Sonos CFO or Accountant?

And while your at it can you provide evidence that they don't hope to make revenue from streams in the future. Will be you willing to provide a guarantee. That will be a no then. Thanks for your best guess.

Dave

How's that affecting the CR100 in the here and now?

Read the thread properly, if you need the detail

But to summarise: future business plans from Sonos are resulting in the bricking of my CR100 as of April, is that here and now enough

It isn't the battery - Sonos have admitted it
It isn't the chipset - as it is in the ZP80
It isn't ageing components - as they are still working
It isn't because they can't - they just don't want to

So it is just down to future business plans, which may well be an all streaming service where they can garner a small revenue for each track/connection/subscription or similar.
[...] They have also told me it is impossible to have two apps on the app store yet they have a beta one and a normal one. [...]
Good luck with a search for the beta app on the app store.
Userlevel 7
Badge +8
Aside from the upcoming loss of my CR100s (yes, I blocked the update but who knows how long that will last?)...I am worried that if SONOS is "allowed" to make the unilateral decision to trash perfectly working hardware in favor of new "services" that I don't even want, what is to stop them from deciding to stop allowing us to use SONOS as a file player? After all, "Services" is the new buzzword, the new way forward, the new way to make money...they don't make money when I play my owned files off my NAS, which is 95% of my use of my system and really the main reason I bought the system in the first place. They could just decide they are not going to support me playing my owned files going forward and cut me off...and poof, the rest of my SONOS setup is useless to me.

I'm not even so much worried about them deciding to off my ZP80 to the trash pile, which seems likely since they will have precedent with the CR100, but to take away this major functionality of playing files that I use daily on all of my system will be easy...just because it no longer fits their business plan...same as how my CR100 no longer fits their business plan, they one day decide not to support it. Because I am no longer a factor in the decision making regarding the equipment I own and spent good money on, I get zero control. They will get to force me either into dumping SONOS entirely, or buy into a service (which I won't do because there is no service that plays the music I use for classes). Their business plan: make money, and continue to make money. And keep making money, even after the hardware was sold, by changing the hardware's function.

Slippery slope. :(


Agreed. In fact it is already underway given the lack of ongoing development in this area (SMB2 or SMB3). How long before it is entirely archaic and they have to drop it for security reasons.