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SAVE THE CR100


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Losing our two CR100s will be the most devastating thing to happen to our household.

My ONE YEAR OLD can play his favourite music by just pushing the button over and over again. My 7 year old will now PESTER ME CONSTANTLY to use my phone whenever he wants to listen to Harry Potter (which is ALL THE TIME)

My parents in law - NEITHER OF WHOM OWN SMARTPHONES will now have to go downstairs and switch on their PC in order to listen to the audiobooks and radio programmes I've given them. They don't use all these 'services', but Sonos is amazing so we built it for them, at great cost for the convenience of having the controller.

My wife won't be able to roll over in bed and hit the volume without blinding us all with your WHITE app in the middle of the night (swipe tap tap tap vs reach and push a button?????)

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DON'T DO THIS SONOS!!!!!

My Children and in-laws are going to HATE me for this.

DO NOT criticise our choices not to use smartphones, or Alexa, or Spotify. Why should we buy new things to make your system work?

PLEASE don't take away the ability to connect we are happy with basic controls?


What am I going to do now? Tell me WHAT?
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Best answer by Ryan S 2 February 2018, 19:08

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So, I wonder what’s coming in early April that is causing the removal of CR100 support? I would have guessed Audible, but that’s already here. AirPlay 2, but Apple seems to be stumbling big time with that. Google Assistant? Voice control of local NAS files? Anyone have better ideas of what it might be?

Oh I think that is fairly straight forward. The new CEO has pedigree.
- Firstly it will be a reduction in the support team head count for second tier support for the nasty network issues. Any Sonosnet, spanning tree problems, or other network will be met with a suggestion of disabling all wired zones and connecting via WiFi. This can start from April (actually some of it has already started)
- Next will be the CR200 (easy meat really)
- After that Sonosnet will be gone as superfluous
- The whole team of expensive secondary support guys who are there to support users with network issues can now go.
- et voila an entire expensive department gone and no impact on current users
- any future dropouts can now be blamed on the customers Wi-Fi

It is a play by play account of what happens when the innovator departs and a CFO takes over.

The excellent support provided by Sonos over the years is a cost, it has little perceived benefit on the books, the only benefit was the advocates pushing Sonos - and we are no longer required as they are now much bigger.

So I bet there is not a single feature that comes in April that would warrant the removal of the CR100.
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Just an idea - if you have a router that is unable block domain names or ports, you could use opendns/umbrella as your dns service. If you signup for the free home service, you can block specific domains, you just have to change the DNS servers on your existing router/firewall.
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Just an idea - if you have a router that is unable block domain names or ports, you could use opendns/umbrella as your dns service. If you signup for the free home service, you can block specific domains, you just have to change the DNS servers on your existing router/firewall.
Hey, that's a really great suggestion for anyone using a Airport Base Station as a router, for example.
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That being so, how hard could it be to just leverage that existing mechanism and provide 1 more “branch”?
It's not a question of whether it can be done. Rather, it's a question whether Sonos wants to go down the path of giving its user base a choice re: firmware. Other companies have. Sonos so far has elected not to.
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When we close a thread to let people cool off it's only a 24 hour closure, the first time.

Any chance of an official Sonos response to the questions / issued raised by "save the CR100" posters on this thread?
We've tried to answer just about all the questions that have come up which we have the answers for. Though I'll admit, this thread is quite long and I certainly could have missed some. Also, some questions we can't answer at this time. Is there one, in particular, you're looking for an answer to?


Ryan,

My Questions as follows:
The exact date that we need to firewall our systems.
Why have some users been given a voucher for multiple CR100s and others disadvantaged.
Confirmation that Sonos could save the CR100 via a 'beta style' app & firmware but don't value us enough as customers to do so.
Confirmation that the battery is safe, and the previous notification was fake news or FUD, or the battery is not safe.

All should be technically fairly quick to answer.

Thank you.

Dave
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Desperately, trying to isolate my Sonos system, but just found out my VDSL Modem Router, TP-Link VR600 (v1), does not have the means to block TCP port 4444 or block access to the url: update.sonos.com - can anyone recommend a suitable VDSL Modem Router with AC wifi?

(Its a shame as the VR600 proved to be very stable, with good coverage and needing very little setup)

SAVE THE CR100 !


I've just replaced my router for this very purpose with an Asus RT AC53. Nice and easy to configure, a good app and easy to block urls. I haven't yet figured out how to block TCP port 4444, though...

T


Aha! - I recently bought that exact same model, and reached much the same point... blocking the URL was simple enough, blocking ports less so. I did find the page where it is to be done, but the interface is somewhat unclear...

It's under the Firewall section, then Network Services Filter tab...
Check the "Enable Network Services Filter" radio button to yes
set the filter table type to blacklist
set the well known applications dropdown to user defined
set the date/time ranges for both weekdays & weekends

After that it gets a bit unclear, but I think (hope) I've figured it out...

I've left the Filtered ICMP packet types box blank, as AFAIK, we're not concerned with ICMP traffic here...
Then you get to the table itself...
the table has entries for: Source IP, Port Range, Destination IP, Port Range, and Protocol...
we don't care about source & destination IP - we want any/any, so following the pop-up help (hover over the column header until you get a question mark on your pointer, then click to get a pop-up help box) - the option for all IP's is *.*.*.* - although a line in the text near the top of the page states: "Leave the source IP field blank to apply this rule to all LAN devices", which does seem to contradict the popup help..
Port range can be a range or a single port, so just 4444 in both port range boxes should be good.
And finally, select the protocol from the drop-down.... I added 2 filter rules, one each for TCP & UDP which I think should cover it...
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Thanks very much, Paul, for taking the time. I'll give that a go.

T
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Thanks very much, Paul, for taking the time. I'll give that a go.

T


blocking just the update.sonos.com would fix the issue, but blocking the port just adds more security.
keep in mind, if you are only using a vendor provided router you CAN go out and pick up a decent residential grade router that will allow you to filter and place it between your vendor provided unit and network.
as I am a firewall admin I use a firewall at the house so I am able to manage this a little better.
last concern is, if you do not have your own unit you will manage, the vendor provided unit could have an issue that requires them to push a update to the firmware which may leave your network open. I have seen it all and I would not care to depend on the vendor for this issue, if something fails there is no going back.

Finding a local tech that can help if you are uncertain is the best suggestion I can give.

if you get your network locked down and your Sonos is up and running test it by clicking on the "check for updates" on a PC and you should see an error that it cannot connect.
if testing with your touchscreen device or phone turn off cellular data and make sure you are testing on the your wi-fi

then pop a cold one and know you have built a wall from Sonos......

Thanks Sonos for adding network filtering and wall building skills to those that you failed to consider.
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Morning / Afternoon / Evening all.

Daily update. It seems I made the list perfect first time around as no additions have been made. I concede that there have been certain distractions during the day....

I think this list needs to be sent to Sonos at the latest Thursday 29th March for their consideration. Ryan S has admitted this thread is long and he could have missed some questions.

Ergo, it's unlikely he / Sonos will see all the reasons why we want to save the CR100 so please contribute and / or flesh out as needed.

Right, it's wine o' clock...
(It's evening here before anyone starts on me)

Reasons to maintain support for the CR100
1. We don't want our kids using tablets / smartphones to control Sonos in their bedrooms as this gives them unsupervised internet access

2. It's splashproof and robust - great for kitchen, pool, outdoor use & for the kids

3. We feel we are currently forced (but don't want) to lock down our systems from future upgrades and potentially lose our streaming services in the future as a result

4. Casual users (an example, holiday home users but also anybody who chooses not to upgrade to each and every new release) might innocently perform an upgrade in 6 months and lose their CR100s without any warning.

5. It is easier for people with certain disabilities to use over a touchscreen / PC based app

6. We have invested a lot of money in CR100s (several users citing ownership of 4, 5, 6 or more units) and still see them as an ongoing concern with plenty of life left. We do not want to re-invest in a corresponding number of new tablets (or other equivalent devices) to take over the job.

7. It is easy for guests to use. We are happy to hand over our CR100s for them to use but not our smartphones or tablets.

8. It is our preferred method of controlling our Sonos systems. We do not want to move to solely app or voice controlled methods.

9. Many of us have affixed our CR100 charging cradles to walls and buried the wires. We do not want these to become a useless ornament

10. We use the alarm clock feature

11. We accept the "aging battery" issue at our risk although many users have changed their own batteries anyway

12. We are not comfortable about disposing equipment that works perfectly

13. It is instantly available to control our systems - we don't want to have to go through the process of unlocking our device and waiting for an app to launch

14. We like the feel of hard buttons and can use it in the dark with our eyes closed.
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if you get your network locked down and your Sonos is up and running test it by clicking on the "check for updates" on a PC and you should see an error that it cannot connect.
if testing with your touchscreen device or phone turn off cellular data and make sure you are testing on the your wi-fi


Just to add to stevecomp3's advice, you are safe to do this test even if you are not sure your network is locked. If you don't get the error and are advised an update is available, you can reject it at this point and continue tinkering....
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Morning / Afternoon / Evening all.

Daily update. It seems I made the list perfect first time around as no additions have been made. ...

Yes you have made a very good summary list, at first glance you seem to have captured all the main ones. But I will try and allocate a bit of time over the weekend to see if there any more I can think of.

Thank you for taking the time to start this post/thread.
An Echo Dot does a better job than the CR100 for a good chunk of your list...
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I'd add:

15. It operates without the need for access to the Internet.

16. It does not depend on a service that has additional privacy implications/concerns.
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I'd add:

15. It operates without the need for access to the Internet.

16. It does not depend on a service that has additional privacy implications/concerns.

Cheers - added
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An Echo Dot does a better job than the CR100 for a good chunk of your list...
Cheers - noted but I don't own one
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is there any other ports or url that need to be blocked just to be on the safe side?
I vaguely remember seeing something about some other url's to block weeks ago... but this thread is a little long now to go back over it
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is there any other ports or url that need to be blocked just to be on the safe side?
I vaguely remember seeing something about some other url's to block weeks ago... but this thread is a little long now to go back over it


there is a list that if you wanted to totally block the Sonos from all internet access (and not the need for any streaming services) that you can setup as well, but for the sake of walling off updates that would kill your CR100 the update.sonos.com and port 4444 (for redundant security) would be all you need.
some units also have content filters (generally a firewall) and adding the same website to the disallowed URL list would also help.
Sonos support site has a link to the ports/URLs that the units will connect to
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[quote=johngolfuk]Morning / Afternoon / Evening all.

Reasons to maintain support for the CR100

Thanks SO MUCH for doing this!

17. More unnecessary e-waste is bad for the environment.
18. Other button based options Sonos sells fall completely short on: zone control, streaming/thumbs up/down, etc.
19. Dedicated to the whole-home music system so it is intuitive – so much more so than the APPs.
20. Quick response for essential functions, visual feedback on the screen, great zone control compared to APPs.

These are kind of ancillary so feel free to enhance or drop.
- We can’t add new equipment when it comes out if our systems are locked down to save the CR-100 from the deadly update.
- Starts a bad precedence for forced obsolescence, bad for the brand.
- Bad for Sonos’ future which we have invested big bucks in and most of us want to see survive, even thrive for the sake of continued support of our expensive audio equipment and the possible new gear and services that Sonos may want to sell us in the future.
- No internet security updates if locked down so it’s a really false choice offered by Sonos if you chose to use streaming services after the lockdown.

I'm still perplexed why management has so far no reasonable explanation regarding the chipset being the same in the CR-100 as in the ZP80 and why only the CR-100 has to go. At least they aren't pushing the silly battery issue as much, probably because it would be publicly admitting that Sonos knowingly sold a dangerous product and would be forced into a full RECALL.
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is there any other ports or url that need to be blocked just to be on the safe side?
I vaguely remember seeing something about some other url's to block weeks ago... but this thread is a little long now to go back over it


there is a list that if you wanted to totally block the Sonos from all internet access (and not the need for any streaming services) that you can setup as well, but for the sake of walling off updates that would kill your CR100 the update.sonos.com and port 4444 (for redundant security) would be all you need.
some units also have content filters (generally a firewall) and adding the same website to the disallowed URL list would also help.
Sonos support site has a link to the ports/URLs that the units will connect to


Great thanks, will check it out. I only play music from my NAS so I'm happy to block everything I can!
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is there any other ports or url that need to be blocked just to be on the safe side?
I vaguely remember seeing something about some other url's to block weeks ago... but this thread is a little long now to go back over it


there is a list that if you wanted to totally block the Sonos from all internet access (and not the need for any streaming services) that you can setup as well, but for the sake of walling off updates that would kill your CR100 the update.sonos.com and port 4444 (for redundant security) would be all you need.
some units also have content filters (generally a firewall) and adding the same website to the disallowed URL list would also help.
Sonos support site has a link to the ports/URLs that the units will connect to


Great thanks, will check it out. I only play music from my NAS so I'm happy to block everything I can!


look here.
https://sonos.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/692?_ga=2.81614110.80775529.1520702925-1210352229.1517409806
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[quote=kassey22000]Morning / Afternoon / Evening all.

Reasons to maintain support for the CR100

Thanks SO MUCH for doing this!

17. More unnecessary e-waste is bad for the environment.
18. Other button based options Sonos sells fall completely short on: zone control, streaming/thumbs up/down, etc.
19. Dedicated to the whole-home music system so it is intuitive – so much more so than the APPs.
20. Quick response for essential functions, visual feedback on the screen, great zone control compared to APPs.

These are kind of ancillary so feel free to enhance or drop.
- We can’t add new equipment when it comes out if our systems are locked down to save the CR-100 from the deadly update.
- Starts a bad precedence for forced obsolescence, bad for the brand.
- Bad for Sonos’ future which we have invested big bucks in and most of us want to see survive, even thrive for the sake of continued support of our expensive audio equipment and the possible new gear and services that Sonos may want to sell us in the future.
- No internet security updates if locked down so it’s a really false choice offered by Sonos if you chose to use streaming services after the lockdown.

I'm still perplexed why management has so far no reasonable explanation regarding the chipset being the same in the CR-100 as in the ZP80 and why only the CR-100 has to go. At least they aren't pushing the silly battery issue as much, probably because it would be publicly admitting that Sonos knowingly sold a dangerous product and would be forced into a full RECALL.


Cheers - added to the list
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Thanks for the replies guys - though not sure the Asus RT AC53 includes VDSL capability as well.

I'm going to see if I can keep the TP-Link VR900 (AC/Giga/VDSL), but buy a cheap VDSL modem with firewall to put in front of it to act as a provide the firewall facility. Again, not sure yet if that's even possible - I think firewalls are normally part of the router function. I'd like to keep the VR900 as the main router in order to make use of its proven giga and AC facilities.

(I have access points to cover the whole house and the TP-Link VR900 is the only router I've found so far that doesn't suffer from IP address collisions as android devices etc move from zone to zone - I don't even need to reserve IP addresses - not a single problem since I installed it, and even seems to cope with the many lightning strikes we get here).

Any guidance here would be appreciated. 1am here - and my brain hurts - thanks Sonos.
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I am so pleased there is this forum. I loved the controllers. Had 3. Message came up and they went on ebay straight away. Now sold.

Sonos listen to your users. Your Amps have rusen in value. Used to get them on ebay for £150. Now £300 is a bargain. How can you make the same happen to your controllers.

Phone app is just not as good at all.:)
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Thanks for the replies guys - though not sure the Asus RT AC53 includes VDSL capability as well.

I'm going to see if I can keep the TP-Link VR900 (AC/Giga/VDSL), but buy a cheap VDSL modem with firewall to put in front of it to act as a provide the firewall facility. Again, not sure yet if that's even possible - I think firewalls are normally part of the router function. I'd like to keep the VR900 as the main router in order to make use of its proven giga and AC facilities.

(I have access points to cover the whole house and the TP-Link VR900 is the only router I've found so far that doesn't suffer from IP address collisions as android devices etc move from zone to zone - I don't even need to reserve IP addresses - not a single problem since I installed it, and even seems to cope with the many lightning strikes we get here).

Any guidance here would be appreciated. 1am here - and my brain hurts - thanks Sonos.


john,
If you can find a VDSL Modem with a Firewall (or filtering ability) then that would work.
I work with some Tp-Link units, they are decent. Check this link out RE: filtering a URL address on TP-Link
https://www.tp-link.com/lk/faq-273.html

hot sure if you got my meaning but you CAN put a new Router, that will provide the filtering you need BEHIND the initial route router you have (if its provided by your ISP) and then just setup all filtering and WiFi as you like to the new router.
if the ISP provided unit has WiFi shut it off to reduce traffic.
This was an option for the people that find they have an internet service that provides a router that does not allow for the needed filtering to wall off Sonos.
Only thing you want to be careful of is that the LAN IP range on the ISP provided router is NOT the same as the LAN you setup on your new Router.

If you need VDSL for the ISP you are using and simply want to add the new router behind the ISP Router, you do not need to find another VDSL unit.

hope this makes sense.
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I am so pleased there is this forum. I loved the controllers. Had 3. Message came up and they went on ebay straight away. Now sold.

Sonos listen to your users. Your Amps have rusen in value. Used to get them on ebay for £150. Now £300 is a bargain. How can you make the same happen to your controllers.

Phone app is just not as good at all.:)


I noticed the prices seemed to be climbing and even on the ZP100......
made me smile knowing that if I am forced to bail out of Sonos there is still (at least right now) value left in the used hardware.