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SAVE THE CR100


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Losing our two CR100s will be the most devastating thing to happen to our household.

My ONE YEAR OLD can play his favourite music by just pushing the button over and over again. My 7 year old will now PESTER ME CONSTANTLY to use my phone whenever he wants to listen to Harry Potter (which is ALL THE TIME)

My parents in law - NEITHER OF WHOM OWN SMARTPHONES will now have to go downstairs and switch on their PC in order to listen to the audiobooks and radio programmes I've given them. They don't use all these 'services', but Sonos is amazing so we built it for them, at great cost for the convenience of having the controller.

My wife won't be able to roll over in bed and hit the volume without blinding us all with your WHITE app in the middle of the night (swipe tap tap tap vs reach and push a button?????)

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DON'T DO THIS SONOS!!!!!

My Children and in-laws are going to HATE me for this.

DO NOT criticise our choices not to use smartphones, or Alexa, or Spotify. Why should we buy new things to make your system work?

PLEASE don't take away the ability to connect we are happy with basic controls?


What am I going to do now? Tell me WHAT?
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Best answer by Ryan S 2 February 2018, 19:08

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3233 replies

Simple actually,
they would have to setup a defined "Sonos Legacy" or go the other way "SonosV2" and provide both Apps for the user to select.
the trick would be in the background for the proper firmware update to be sent to the players based on a choice we should be given in our Sonos Account Profile.
Certainly not a "simple" solution, but it should be able to be implemented if they cared.

That would have to be a Sonos-supported arrangement, of even more complexity than exists today. It's not open-sourcing the CR firmware at all. Does anyone really imagine that Sonos would deliver an unknown image -- possibly changed nightly a la Squeezebox -- via their update servers? Not going to happen.

but I want to keep what I paid for and would be content to stay as I am

Sonos,. Give me that option.

They already did. See the pinned answer at the top of the thread.
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More choices coming all the time. Soon, Google Assistant, which is currently the most accurate voice Assistant. Should make music selection even easier than the already dead simple Alexa. Makes the CR100 seem very quaint. :D

I shall begin by saying that this is all way way off topic.

We are arguing why we want to keep using our CR-100s, not what's around the corner, be it more accurate voice control, thought control via direct chip implants in the brain or head worn cheek muscle detectors in homage to the late, great Stephen Hawking.

But, out of curiosity since I have never used voice control for my Sonos:

When I use my Sonos system, sometimes I decide I want to listen to XXX by XXX. I understand that voice control would allow me to do that.

But mostly, I want to browse either through my local music or stuff I have already setup on Napster, or through Napster charts, either to see what's new or to come across stuff I hadn't listened to for ages.

Is this possible using voice control........??


But, out of curiosity since I have never used voice control for my Sonos:

When I use my Sonos system, sometimes I decide I want to listen to XXX by XXX. I understand that voice control would allow me to do that.

But mostly, I want to browse either through my local music or stuff I have already setup on Napster, or through Napster charts, either to see what's new or to come across stuff I hadn't listened to for ages.

Is this possible using voice control........??


No. But is certainly available via a tablet based app, with pretty pictures for artwork, and a high resolution screen that allows you to swipe to scroll, or even type actual letters in a search.
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I like the haptic feedback of the big buttons on the CR-100 and especially since I can find them in my sleep. Even a harmony remote can hold a candle to the CR-100. Is there an alternative to the CR-100 that SONOS recommends to fill the need? And please dont say the Amazon echo. I want a device that doesnt need internet access to perform a simple function. Ideally it would be a CR-100 with a few more buttons that I could program - I personally would like to have a button that sets the sleep timer.
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But, out of curiosity since I have never used voice control for my Sonos:

When I use my Sonos system, sometimes I decide I want to listen to XXX by XXX. I understand that voice control would allow me to do that.

But mostly, I want to browse either through my local music or stuff I have already setup on Napster, or through Napster charts, either to see what's new or to come across stuff I hadn't listened to for ages.

Is this possible using voice control........??


No. But is certainly available via a tablet based app, with pretty pictures for artwork, and a high resolution screen that allows you to swipe to scroll, or even type actual letters in a search.


"No" would have sufficed - I am aware of the features available in the apps
I like the haptic feedback of the big buttons on the CR-100 and especially since I can find them in my sleep. Even a harmony remote can hold a candle to the CR-100. Is there an alternative to the CR-100 that SONOS recommends to fill the need? And please dont say the Amazon echo. I want a device that doesnt need internet access to perform a simple function. Ideally it would be a CR-100 with a few more buttons that I could program - I personally would like to have a button that sets the sleep timer.

There's a thread here:

https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/android-controllers-and-setup-past-the-cr100-brick-6802192

And here:

https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/replacement-cr100-6800531
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Forced Obsolescence
Has anyone reached out to Wired, Geekwire (I’m writing to Todd Bishop today), and/or Audio publications about this new paradigm where an audio equipment manufacturer can - at their total discretion - on some arbitrary date render your equipment useless? Then give you the FALSE equivalence choice that you can just block future updates including important security fixes? LG is no longer actively sending out updates to my older smart TV, yet they haven’t bricked it or the Smart Remote for that matter. This is a slippery slope folks and PLEASE, PLEASE those who don’t care about this subject and especially those who DO NOT have or have ever owned a CR100 quit posting contrarian views just to stir the pot! This topic is SAVE THE CR100 not I want to KILL the CR100… (channeling John Oliver) just stop it!

I think this link from an earlier post sums it up well –“Sonos this is a d—k move!”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac1zZo7wLo8

Sonos - Just let the CR100 die slowly from electronic failure and it is ok if you don’t support it, nor update it. You’ve done this in the past and sure, the controller may no longer support some shiny new services, but killing it just makes you look like an arrogant and uncaring management team who never understood the value of a BRAND and customer loyalty

To answer another prior post: Sound bar + Sub last year, 2 Ones 2016, and if this nonsense keeps up, not another Sonos device even it cleans may house and makes my coffee! ;-)

Please post your letters to Sonos management here and if you’ve written to the press, or posted on social media (YouTube et al), please give us a link.
Happy listening.
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I'm considering a letter to the attorney general of my state instead.

Sonos has a R&D presence here, so there is that.

This potential case has so many implications re: precedent that that relevant powers might take an interest.

The company is effectively disabling a working piece of my HiFi stereo system by fiat, years after its sale. I have been using the product legally, happily.

As explained previously, the company makes 'freezing' the product at a particular firmware revision comparatively difficult. Anyone on the SonosNet can precipitate an update, there is no going back. Never mind issues such as later Sonos Apps refusing to work with older firmwares.

So to claim that updates can be avoided is disingenuous when the simpler and easier solution is to let customers decide what firmware revision their devices will run. If Sonos wants to keep developing new wizbang OS's and so on, good for them. Let me stay at 8.4 without extreme measures and I along with all the other CR100 aficionados will be happy.

Then, when the time comes to update, let that be our choice.
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Simple actually,
they would have to setup a defined "Sonos Legacy" or go the other way "SonosV2" and provide both Apps for the user to select.
the trick would be in the background for the proper firmware update to be sent to the players based on a choice we should be given in our Sonos Account Profile.
Certainly not a "simple" solution, but it should be able to be implemented if they cared.

That would have to be a Sonos-supported arrangement, of even more complexity than exists today. It's not open-sourcing the CR firmware at all. Does anyone really imagine that Sonos would deliver an unknown image -- possibly changed nightly a la Squeezebox -- via their update servers? Not going to happen.

but I want to keep what I paid for and would be content to stay as I am

Sonos,. Give me that option.

They already did. See the pinned answer at the top of the thread.


Rude, boorish, berating,
So tonight it is another "member" of the Sonos Boards once again attempting to stir up the conversation but only repeating himself and as usual being off topic. (I have been asked not to use the "T" word as some feel its demeaning. Some words just cannot be properly replaced.

YOU asked " how would Sonos provide a process to stop the Apple/Google/Amazon app stores from auto-updating the app?" and I provided you with the best possible answer, and one totally on topic for trying to "Save the CR100"
as usual you come up with the "matter of fact rude answer making you sounded AS IF you were the authority on Sonos".
Based on your question, I DID assert that it would have to be a solution that would have to come from Sonos as they would need to integrate the "choice" into our accounts. so why did you feel it important to mention that in your response?

And thanks for pointing out the very detail the members of this thread, not you or the rest of your ilk, helped to come up with to sort out HOW we can lock down our systems and wall off all further updates.

I have to ask you the same question I asked last night to another, why are you here? and what is this topic to you? since we already know you also do not care about the CR100 nor the opinions of those of us that do.

if you are unable to appreciate the answer as a possible solution that would resolve the issues, and provide those of use that wish to keep the hardware we purchased operational, and still let you do what you would like in the end, then no one can help you.
If you also cannot see the folly in allowing a vendor the ability to decide, when they want to, that they are going to terminate the functionality of a piece of hardware that you purchased as wrong, then when it is your turn you will have no one to complain to.

If you are speaking officially for Sonos and telling us it will never happen, then please advise, otherwise if you want to be helpful go to another topic on the message board and berate someone else.

Sonos. Please address this issue and find a way to keep the CR100 alive as a choice.
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I want a choice in the matter, be it new remotes, or a way to stay on a legacy path, and I really could not care if they replace all of the gear, but no manufacturer should be assuming that the typical user is going to take what they are dishing out quietly.

To be fair, Sonos offers lots of choices. Android app, iOS app, windows application, hard buttons on products, voice control, and other 3rd party applications and hardware. Sonos gives lots of possibilities for control. I could be wrong, but I doubt any other audio systems gives the same level of choices for control. I get that these choices aren't appealing to you and many other customers because you want a Sonos hardware remote option, but you most certainly are given choices for control of your Sonos system.


To be fair these are all just App based controllers on different hardware or voice (which is even worst!).

As I think we all know, the real issue here is - Sonos are replacing the CR100 with something that is not as good. Yes PC, laptop, tablet, smartphone & other "modern" controllers work and work well, they just do not do some things anywhere like as well as a CR100 (or CR200).

If Sonos offered users something that was better than a CR100 (and perhaps a bit more notice) then I suspect most people would be pleased to moved to new and improved controller. Sure they might not be so pleased that they are having to pay out again but at least they are getting a better remote control for this expenditure. Having to pay out again to purchase new hardware to replace the CR100s and getting an inferior and worse experience really is a "double whammy".

Now before both side reach out to beat me up; I know the App based (and even voice activated) controllers can do many tasks better than the good old CR100 and I know that there are many other real reasons that Sonos's proposed April bricking of our working hardware is wrong. But if they have released a alternative that worked better than CR100 (whatever that might be) we would not be so angry.
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I want a choice in the matter, be it new remotes, or a way to stay on a legacy path, and I really could not care if they replace all of the gear, but no manufacturer should be assuming that the typical user is going to take what they are dishing out quietly.


To be fair, Sonos offers lots of choices. Android app, iOS app, windows application, hard buttons on products, voice control, and other 3rd party applications and hardware. Sonos gives lots of possibilities for control. I could be wrong, but I doubt any other audio systems gives the same level of choices for control. I get that these choices aren't appealing to you and many other customers because you want a Sonos hardware remote option, but you most certainly are given choices for control of your Sonos system.

To be fair these are all just App based controllers on different hardware or voice control (which is just not up to the job).

The real issue is that Sonos are replacing a good controller with lots of other options none of which are (overall) as good as the CR100. Yes, App or voice controllers can do somethings better than a CR100 but overall the CR100 is just better and faster for simple tasks (searching excepted!).

If Sonos were offering something that was better than the CR100 (and perhaps a bit more notice!) then I suspect most people would be pleased to upgrade their controllers. Yes, they would not be so pleased at having to payout again to replace working units but at least they would be getting a better remote control for their expenditure.

But asking/requiring users to spend out again to purchase replacement hardware that will deliver a poorer experience just feels like a double whammy, no surprise we are not happy.

... but I doubt any other audio systems gives the same level of choices for control.
You know this may be true. But I only want one controller, a dedicated, hard buttoned, "instant on" controller. When we decided to spend a lot of money moving to Sonos there was only one controller and it was a dedicated, hard buttoned, "instant on" controller. Our needs have not changed.
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I want a choice in the matter, be it new remotes, or a way to stay on a legacy path, and I really could not care if they replace all of the gear, but no manufacturer should be assuming that the typical user is going to take what they are dishing out quietly.


To be fair, Sonos offers lots of choices. Android app, iOS app, windows application, hard buttons on products, voice control, and other 3rd party applications and hardware. Sonos gives lots of possibilities for control. I could be wrong, but I doubt any other audio systems gives the same level of choices for control. I get that these choices aren't appealing to you and many other customers because you want a Sonos hardware remote option, but you most certainly are given choices for control of your Sonos system.


NO argument they offer choices,
and back in the day they offered (1) controller and an application for the PC and charged quite a bit of money for it as well.
they "created" the Sonos lifestyle for all of us.
we were even given added capabilities, all added to the CR100 in the process.
at some point they declared that the CR100 could not get some of the "newer" abilities and we all took it stride, as the Touchscreen App was getting better.... and the CR100 had not been made for some time, so most of the real CR100 users were not really jumping on the "new abilities" bandwagon.
the users that cut their Sonos teeth on Touchscreen never had the chance to know what the CR100 was really like and where it excelled in being able to control Sonos.
and now they want to simply tell us they need to "kill" the device, without giving us any sort of proper "Sonos provided" choice in the matter?
this is not YOUR controllers being shut down, they belong to me, and I am offended that any company can be allowed to do this without everyone crying foul.
To suggest that we can use any "device that runs the App" OR "press one of the buttons on the players" is a choice that replaces the CR100 is missing the point of all this.

Sonos should not be allowed to kill off the CR100 without providing the ability to lock our systems into a legacy firmware. Unless of course they want to come out with a new control product, but this topic has been hashed around too much to bring out the "Sonos Board Authorities" to tell us it would cost too much and they would sell to few. ,

so the Legacy Firmware option is the best suggestion to keep Sonos Owners that want the CR100 to live on.

Sonos - Please hear your CR100 owners and realize we should be respected.
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Don’t feed the trolls kids!

Looking at the details of those providing unhelpful responses indicates they spend an inordinate amount of time on these forums. Who posts nearly 20,000 times on one Internet forum? No idea of their age but they need to get a life.
Anyway I’m only here to try to get support for the impending doom of the cr100 and will ignore the trolls from now on. I’ve managed to use Sonos for many years without the need for the forum so I’ll be out of here soon.

Thanks to all those who have posted very helpful advice
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I have just read the email about the CR100 being discontinued from April (unfortunately the email was in my SPAM folder), effectively forcing us to use the android app just when it has gone severely downhill in recent months.

I find the dangerous battery excuse to be completely bogus as batteries are freely available and changeable by any competent technician. Indeed, I already have spare batteries and a virgin/unopened CR100 as backup (neither needed yet).

I accept that Sonos may not be able to support the ever changing interfaces of external services, but please keep the dedicated CR100 controller operational, albeit with reduced function, i.e. with library and tunein radio. It is the visual and operational focus of my systems.

I personally have Sonos multiroom systems in two countries and have bought and recommended Sonos systems for families, friends and customers.

SONOS - PLEASE DON'T BETRAY MY CONFIDENCE, PATRONAGE AND EVANGELISM FOR THE SONOS PRODUCT RANGE!

JohnD


I couldn’t agree more. I still have 7 cr100’s and they all work perfect. I don’t agree with the battery argument at all.
Why can’t they just keep it alive with reduced or basic sonos functionality? We use them mainly with the kids and their friends who are over a lot , or at parties. We have no interest in voice commands. But we have a whole house full of sonos components and have been adding stuff every year. This really sucks.
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The ZP80 is just as voice control capable as the Play:5 2nd gen and the Playbase, as are all other Sonos players made since 2005. I know, I control one with an Echo in my living room.

As to the posting of this type nonsense, if someone continuously post things that are so demonstrably wrong, I can only surmise they are either ignorant, or spreading FUD. Either way, it is not doing the cause any good.


You are saying the ZP80 is as voice capable as the PlayOne. Well thats funny cos I have been shouting at my ZP80 for an hour and it hasn't responded at all, please advise what I am doing wrong. I'll tell you - it doesn't have a microphone. It may be able to be voice controlled via a third party device and the internet.
This magic voice control won't work with the internet down. Sorry everyone no music at this party as the internet is down - huh thats country living for you.

So to be correct the ZP80 is not as capable as the PlayOne, as it relies on a third party device to do so.

If you can't be technically correct please don't post - and have some respect for other posters. You might have a massive post count but being rude and behaving like you are a know-it-all doesn't impress anyone.

Dave
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More choices coming all the time. Soon, Google Assistant, which is currently the most accurate voice Assistant. Should make music selection even easier than the already dead simple Alexa. Makes the CR100 seem very quaint. :D

Voice Control
Does it work without an internet connection? No.
Will it give access to local music? No.
Can you search your music, or even the music of a streaming provider? No
Will it work in all countries, with all regional accents? No
Will it regularly mis-interpret things? Yes

You claim that Alexa is dead simple to use, but Google Assistant will be better - what could be better than dead simple? Basically it will provide the same functionality as Alexa, which quite frankly is a huge disappointment, frustrating to use, and has already been abandoned in our house.

Run through the above questions with the CR100 and the answers are the complete opposite. It works. The only downside is Sonos have been restricting the feature set either by need or design. I am beginning to suspect the latter.

So the reality is the choices are diminishing from the following:
dedicated hard controller, app on a third party handheld device, voice control by third party hardware, desktop app on third party hardware
to
app on a third party handheld device, voice control by third party hardware, desktop app on third party hardware

But somehow you see the loss of choice as progress.

I have always avoided the term fanboy thinking instead of the regular posters as enthusiastic owners. But when you are openly supporting the reduction of choice for the user in favour of the party line (which is about reducing support costs) then maybe its time to reconsider.

Dave
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... I Think I recall the CR100's being the wrong side of £300 each, and for that you didn't even get the cradle, - that was another £40 a pop. Top of my head maths then suggests that my 3 CR100's and 3 cradles set me back almost exactly £1000.... - and that was in the days when a grand was worth something!! ...
Oh yes!

I remember feeling a bit conned at the time, having to purchase the cradle as an extra when it should have been included (as it was when the CR200 came out). I think the offer should be more if you have a cradle. ;)

We have 7 CR100s all with cradles (£2,400 odd) and the offer is £100 - Really? 😠
... I Think I recall the CR100's being the wrong side of £300 each, and for that you didn't even get the cradle, - that was another £40 a pop. Top of my head maths then suggests that my 3 CR100's and 3 cradles set me back almost exactly £1000.... - and that was in the days when a grand was worth something!! ...
Oh yes!

I remember feeling a bit conned at the time, having to purchase the cradle as an extra when it should have been included (as it was when the CR200 came out). I think the offer should be more if you have a cradle. ;)

We have 7 CR100s all with cradles (£2,400 odd) and the offer is £100 - Really? :@


Actually the voucher is worth somewhat less since it can't be used with any other offer. You might do better to skip the voucher and wait for a sale that will likely give you equal or better savings.
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Sign the petition and contact Sonos customer support and let them know what you think.

367 signatures and growing :D

https://www.change.org/p/patrick-spence-ceo-sonos-stop-sonos-from-disabling-the-cr100-controller-from-their-system?recruiter=121008685&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition&utm_term=psf_combo_share_initial.undefined

Also, consider locking down your system to prevent your CR100 controller(s) from being bricked - must be done before the end of March (or the next Sonos update). Checkout my guide here : https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/save-the-cr100-6800510/index70.html#post16217266
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I've been posting on and following this thread since the beginning - though I was not previously a poster (unlike some who seem to be on a lot of the threads). I'm an "early -ish adopter", having first bought sonos in 2006. I last bought a Sonos product last year (two Play 1s) and I know 3 people who have bought Sonos systems after I recommended it.

I am not a luddite. I have lots of technology in my home, use the App most of the time and yet would prefer to keep the CR100.

However, I have become reconciled to losing my CR100s - I have disconnected 3 out of 4 so far and replaced those ones with Kindle Fire 7s. As a controller it is not a direct replacement for the CR100:

on the plus side it does other things, which is relevant if you have other things you want to do in that zone; eg control your wireless lights or view the feed from your wireless camera or alter your wireless thermostat, all of which I have. Also, you can do email, web browsing and video streaming, etc.

on the negative side I need to lock down 2 of these devices as 2 of them are in my young children's bedrooms where the simplicity of the CR100 came into its own. Also, the tablets are not immediate in the same way that the CR100 is, nor do they light up when I approach them, nor can they be easily engaged and disengaged from their charger. Other (likely more expensive) tablet options may exist that do this better. Finally, the tablets are not as robust or water resistant as the CR100. There may be other negatives for other users.

Alexa is ok. I have 2 of these in my house and try to use it as much as i can. Its great for turning the lights on and off in various rooms. Its not there yet though as far as SONOS is concerned: there are (at least) 3 major issues -

It can't browse my music library and can't work with my Napster or Apple Music subscriptions. I believe it can play playlists from Spotify but I don't subscribe to that (and i baulk at a third paid streaming service). It will search for tracks on Amazon Music, which is great - but I only have the "free with Prime" version of that which has a limited music catalogue (and I baulk at a 4th paid streaming service :)).

It really struggles with grouping zones. When try to play something in 2 zones it says it will - but then instead starts playing it from my Echo dot and neither Sonos product. I need it to be good at grouping as its a function I use every day in certain areas.

Every time you ask Alexa something she mutes the music playing on Sonos. That's actually really annoying, especially if you are in a different zone that you've grouped with the zone that Alexa is in.

I'm confident Alexa will get better and we will end up being able to use it - or some other rival - to fully and seamlessly audio command our Sonos equipment.


There's no doubt that discontinuing the use of the CR100 gives the longest-serving Sonos users a less satisfactory experience in certain use scenarios. I'm one of those people.

My point is (and thanks for staying with me) that now is not the time to discontinue the use of the CR100. Its too early. The best result would be a change of heart by Sonos.

However, if Sonos is going to do it anyway, then I would expect them to listen to people when they detail how the change will affect their experience in their particular use scenario and consider whether improved compensation will help them come to terms with it. My experience is that they have done just that. They offered me a voucher for each controller. I have made no secret about this - i posted it earlier in this thread. This was clearly an exception to the normal offer and I have to be honest - it was enough to reconcile me to losing the CR100. Indeed, I'll be buying more Sonos equipment now 🙂. I can see why they might not want to advertise this, but equally they didnt ask me to sign an NDA either.

If you think that a better offer might make you happier with your loss and encourage you to explore solutions that don't involve locking down your system and living in fear of an accidental update - then I suggest you contact Sonos individually to make your case. What's the worst that can happen? Otherwise I don't see them answering what are specific and individual use scenarios on this thread.
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... I Think I recall the CR100's being the wrong side of £300 each, and for that you didn't even get the cradle, - that was another £40 a pop. Top of my head maths then suggests that my 3 CR100's and 3 cradles set me back almost exactly £1000.... - and that was in the days when a grand was worth something!! ...
Oh yes!

I remember feeling a bit conned at the time, having to purchase the cradle as an extra when it should have been included (as it was when the CR200 came out). I think the offer should be more if you have a cradle. ;)

We have 7 CR100s all with cradles (£2,400 odd) and the offer is £100 - Really? :@


Actually the voucher is worth somewhat less since it can't be used with any other offer. You might do better to skip the voucher and wait for a sale that will likely give you equal or better savings.


Actually, my voucher was worth £125, with which I purchased an iPort Xpress for the princely sum of nothing.

I’ve been following this thread for a while now and felt I had to give my opinion. I am a newcomer to Sonos equipment, having replaced my aging Squeezebox Touch only last year. I did, however, purchase a CR100 on eBay as I needed a way for my not so techie wife (and anyone else) to quickly be able to adjust the volume or stop and start the music. The CR100 was a good solution to this. However, as I have 4 zones in my house, it was still not as quick and instant for my wife to operate it, if it happened to be pointing to the “wrong” zone. I do have to say that the iPort Xpress is perfect for our needs. Just set it to the zone you require and that’s it. It does also allow you to cycle through favourites if you want, but to be honest, using the app is far easier for us to choose what to play. At the moment, I only have a need to control one zone this way, but I might decide to purchase more units in the future.

Having said this, I do have sympathy for those of you whose setup and usage requirements are more advanced than mine, and for who the loss of the CR100 is far more critical.

Someone commented that their old TV set doesn’t get any more firmware updates, but isn’t bricked, so why should Sonos do this to the CR100? The big difference here is that a TV is a standalone unit, whereas the CR100 has to communicate with multiple other devices, so it’s not reasonable to use this as a comparison in my opinion.

I suspect that having to maintain the firmware on the CR100 and ensuring it’s continued integration, is restricting what Sonos want to be able to do in the future. Like all sensible companies, they must have done their sums and come to the conclusion that the loss of “a few” is outweighed by potential future growth.

Several times on here, people have exclaimed that this is theft. Has anyone actually taken legal advice about this? And if people are so sure about it, why haven’t they started any law suits against Sonos? Whilst I have no legal background, I personally think that you wouldn’t have any chance of succeeding in bringing legal action. All large companies will have a legal department, so I’m sure that if it was illegal, they would have brought it to management’s attention well before it became public knowledge.

I also think it’s ridiculous some people threatening to ditch their entire setup and buy a new system, because of this. I think “cutting your nose off to spite your own face” is a suitable phrase to use here.

Sorry if my first post on here is a bit of a long disorganised ramble, but to finish some final thoughts.

1. The reasons given so far for bricking the CR100 are weak, and I don’t feel that we are being told the whole truth.
2. For those that want to freeze their system, I’m sure it would be possible to have a flag in the software which, when set, would prevent the system from checking and downloading future updates. And maybe the phone/tablet App can switch to a legacy mode if it detects that this flag has been set. I’m sure a lot of anger would disappear if Sonos implemented something like this.
3. Use your voucher and get an iPort Xpress. It won’t cost you anything and you never know, it might actually be a suitable replacement, as it is for me.

I’ve resigned myself to the loss of the CR100, but to those of you for who it performs a far more important role, good luck in trying to get a change of heart from Sonos.
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[quote=Wooks63][quote=upstatemike
Actually, my voucher was worth £125, with which I purchased an iPort Xpress for the princely sum of nothing.

Someone commented that their old TV set doesn’t get any more firmware updates, but isn’t bricked, so why should Sonos do this to the CR100? The big difference here is that a TV is a standalone unit, whereas the CR100 has to communicate with multiple other devices, so it’s not reasonable to use this as a comparison in my opinion.



Mike, I'm so glad you were able to use your voucher to purchase a Non-Sonos product. That offer is NOT being given to the US customer base. $100 only toward the purchase of Sonos equipment which of course they don't offer a controller.

The comment on TV included the Smart Remote. That Smart Remote works on other LG TVs so your comment kind of misses the point. The CR100 is like a Smart Remote, it's handy, it's tactile, it can be used in the dark, in high humidity environments, and on and on. Why do you think almost every single TV, stereo, and many more audio equipment manufactures offer a handheld remote to this day? My household has tried to use the various crappy iOS apps to substitute the TV remote and they all suck.
We feel the same way with the recent iOS Sonos app. It takes way more steps to achieve the same result as the CR100.

The chipset in the CR100 is the same as in the ZP80 (see prior posts with accompanying photos), yet the ZP80 isn't being bricked (yet!). Why? Sonos had left the CR100 alone for a very long time without updates in the past, now they are bricking it in April simple as that - it is bad for the brand, and bad for loyal customers. Shame on Sonos' new management team for being so shortsighted.
Actually, my voucher was worth £125, with which I purchased an iPort Xpress for the princely sum of nothing.
[...] Mike, I'm so glad you were able to use your voucher to purchase a Non-Sonos product. That offer is NOT being given to the US customer base. $100 only toward the purchase of Sonos equipment which of course they don't offer a controller. [...]
https://www.sonos.com/en-us/shop/xpress-audio-keypad.html
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[quote=kassey22000][quote=Wooks63]Actually, my voucher was worth £125, with which I purchased an iPort Xpress for the princely sum of nothing.

Someone commented that their old TV set doesn’t get any more firmware updates, but isn’t bricked, so why should Sonos do this to the CR100? The big difference here is that a TV is a standalone unit, whereas the CR100 has to communicate with multiple other devices, so it’s not reasonable to use this as a comparison in my opinion.[/i]


Mike, I'm so glad you were able to use your voucher to purchase a Non-Sonos product. That offer is NOT being given to the US customer base. $100 only toward the purchase of Sonos equipment which of course they don't offer a controller.

The comment on TV included the Smart Remote. That Smart Remote works on other LG TVs so your comment kind of misses the point. The CR100 is like a Smart Remote, it's handy, it's tactile, it can be used in the dark, in high humidity environments, and on and on. Why do you think almost every single TV, stereo, and many more audio equipment manufactures offer a handheld remote to this day? My household has tried to use the various crappy iOS apps to substitute the TV remote and they all suck.

The chipset in the CR100 is the same as in the ZP80 (see prior posts with accompanying photos), yet the ZP80 isn't being bricked (yet!). Why? Sonos had left the CR100 alone for a very long time without updates in the past, now they are bricking it in April simple as that - it is bad for the brand, and bad for loyal customers. Shame on Sonos' new management team for being so shortsighted.


Put together the facts:
Sonos used Fear and FUD (thank you to the self appointed message board police for providing that description) in their attempt to get the CR100 owners to relinquish their units for the sake of "safety" (only thing not added to that attempt was "For the children")
then they added to the FUD by claiming it was an elderly CPU, and I showed it was indeed the same as the ZP100 and could be the same as the ZP80, I just have not bothered to open one up to take a look.

Its apparent the CR100 is a device they simply do not want to support any longer, and likely due to the need for more resources in the limited resource pool that their firmware works with. I would suggest that much of the resources used by the CR200 should be close to the same, so I am sure the CR200 will be next, but with much fewer remaining "Working" CR200 around, and how they essentially run the same app as the rest of the touchscreen devices, I would suggest that they will not hear much from users when they want to kill the CR200, (their mistake was not setting the precedent first with the CR200)

Only real issues (aside from the fact that there is a growing number of users finally waking up to the issue and speaking out) is they built the Sonos Eco-System as a "one-sized fits all" and push the updates thru a single portal.
The best option for Sonos, if they want to save face and show they care about the users that bought their gear, is to create some some of Option to allow us the ability to "Opt-Out" or "remain a Legacy user" and keep from all further updates within our profiles, that SHOULD then only push a legacy version that will not cripple the CR100 and keep the Legacy Systems as they are today.
If implemented correctly they may even be able to allow for a "downgrading" of the firmware if you happen to want to add a new unit to your network along with the ability to update the Legacy code with API and certificate changes to keep the existing services and functions working. I am NOT suggesting adding anything new, just keep it operational.

Which as far as I am concerned is exactly what I would like, as I have no need or desire to move towards Voice, new streaming services and the demise of Local file storage:
Before I am flamed for this comment, ---DISCLAIMER--- this has not actually been discussed openly as local file storage is a "given" currently, however, as more users go to all-streaming and local file store is not currently able to be "Voice Controlled" along with the fact that the SMB protocol has never been fixed, you do the math and device if I may be onto something.
I am not interested in hearing from the "board police" accusing me of creating more FUD or reminding me of the honest mistakes I have made and recanted on. That's all getting too old and unless they can speak for Sonos Officially I do not care to hear from them,

this is not a $30 remote control, or even $100, these were around $300 new and I am using 8 of them, and moving to touchscreens would NOT replace their tactile control and single purpose ease. (I am not going to repeat everything I have already said about that.)

There has been an increase in the media on the issue lately, so more people are starting to learn of the pending demise coming in April.
Sonos has not pulled the trigger yet either, so there have also been no lawsuits to test the system. I would think someone might if they feel they have been slighted enough,
everyone has the right to do what they feel is best.

Speaking just for myself my network is walled off, and it will remain that way until Sonos works out a way to reverse their direction on this, otherwise I will continue to run the walled off system as long as I can. I will no longer sing the praises or advise friends and clients towards a Sonos system as there are many other options today and none that have taken the same approach to kill off a perfectly good running piece of control gear by their own volition without providing any sort of option NOT to be included in the process. (or actually provide a proper "reason" from their forced move)
Again ---DISCLAIMER--- to avoid the flamers that continue to tell us they know more than we do,
You should not consider the "process" to opt out as provided by Ryan S as official. His detail was incomplete and also came with the same "we do not recommend" that officially Sonos Support advises to stay on the most current version. They have not provided any official option on this, and advised against it.
The users that have spent the time on this topic (you know, not the berating ones) have built methods and directions on how best to lock down the systems. See the links in this topic on how to proceed.

If Sonos decides that allowing users to "wall off", and no longer remain "customers", rather than "users", is an acceptable calculated loss they are willing to accept, then that is their choice. Those of us that do wall off will have to decide how to proceed going forward.

I can only hope Sonos realizes that finding a way to keep all of their customers "satisfied" is truly the best for business in the long run.
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More thoughts on "HOW" Sonos could provide a legacy path

--Disclaimer-- at the risk of being told I am wrong, and being reminded how I "have been wrong" on this topic before, I want to suggest that unless the Self Professed Board Police can speak for Sonos to refute what I am suggesting, then go away.

one of the board cops asked the question "how" when commenting on having some sort of Legacy path created.
I will try to keep this short, but this came to me since I have had to learn as much as I did resurrecting a few ZP100s to lock them down. YES, I was working with a Bus Pirate, Yes I was replacing component level parts and watching the units boot, and forcing firmware to dead units, and yes, I fixed them.

1 Sonos already knows EXACTLY what hardware you own, by serial number, unit name and household. Do not forget this fact.
2: Sonos has one URL address that all devices go to for the upgrades, update.sonos.com
3: at this point, they have only needed to "send" to the requesting device the updated firmware in their "one sized fits all approach". so they just pump out one set of code.
I am uncertain if there is actually a specific firmware sent depending on the device VS the very same being sent, but even it its specific, this can still be managed (see number 4)
4: when the device (be it a player, or control, or bridge, Etc) all send the request along with its identifying detail.
for example, the following is submitted: (and this is in the ZR100 repair topic on this board)
URL is http://update-firmware.sonos.com/firmware/Gold/28.1-83251-v5.2-pcyakr-RC4/28.1-83040-1-1.upd?cmaj=27&cmin=2&cbld=80271&subm=3&rev=2®=1&serial=XXXXXXXX&sonosid=XXXXXXXX&householdid=XXXXXXXXXX

notice the bold text, Sonos know exactly which device they are sending firmware to and hey send it back with a name that includes that very detail.

this is all "behind the scenes" programming and management.
if an "option" to stay in a "legacy" or "V1" code were given, and we had the ability to select the option in our Sonos Profile, then when Your unit would send a request for the update THEIR system could lookup the account based on unit serial number, determine the option to remain on legacy, and then send the proper code.

to further this, the proper code versions could ALWAYS be the same only one ends in V1 or V2 or L, (whatever designation they want), the point it, the player/device will always load the latest code and even if you want to swap a unit from V1 to V2 or the other way around they COULD send the code with a firmware version number that will look to unit like its the "next generation" and boot that code. (a downgrade option should be possible)
In my opinion this could be done based on what I have seen and how these units boot their firmware. But Sonos must implement it and it would mean they must support a legacy path but they would not be "adding" any new features or further developing it, they would just be keeping it operational and updated for APIs and security certificates.

as far as the Apps are concerned, they would have to create a V1 and V2 and should even be able to have the App inform the user if they opened the wrong one and need to change apps based on Option selected in your Sonos account. (this could keep the Apps from updating improperly or even allow a user the ability to have both apps on the same device to service 2 different households if they are not on the same "Option".

I had to share my thoughts on this,
and again, before someone feels the need to tell me I am wrong, or Sonos would never do it, or I am ignorant or just plain stupid, perhaps you should consider how you will look if you do.

Tossing thoughts out there and perhaps Sonos has someone watching and can think this thru. I believe this is possible, Sonos needs to make it happen.

Its not April yet, there is still time.....