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SAVE THE CR100



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I assume the Sonos Staff are MIA here as they probably have much to be going on with for the 8.5 release next week. I assume from looking at the last few updates that the release is likely to be on the Tuesday (that’s usually their update-day, isn’t it?).

I can’t see the staff offering any additional advice to users here anyway, other than to update to the next version of the firmware, as that is the only official line the company has ever taken on this matter. They are not bound in anyway to give instructions on how to get around the update, though they have clearly accepted that every user still has a choice not to update and that choice is theirs and theirs alone. They also state that chosen route may come with some risks surrounding the CR100 battery and overall system security etc.

It is the first time though I have ever seen Sonos give the user such prior notification of the impending release and I think a considerable amount of time to allow them to understand and consider their position since the original announcement which I think was first published on the 7th February ... so a good two months has passed since then.

Is that plenty of time for the user to make their own choice and take action accordingly? ... I think it is.
Sign the petition and contact Sonos customer support and let them know what you think.

442 signatures and growing :D

https://www.change.org/p/patrick-spence-ceo-sonos-stop-sonos-from-disabling-the-cr100-controller-from-their-system?recruiter=121008685&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition&utm_term=psf_combo_share_initial.undefined

Also, consider locking down your system to prevent your CR100 controller(s) from being bricked - must be done BEFORE the next Sonos software/firmware update). Checkout my guide here : https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/save-the-cr100-6800510/index86.html#post16220262


A thought occurred to me recently.... I know 'some' of us already have opened support cases with Sonos, mostly it would appear to little effect other than to have the case closed with the standard party line as the 'resolution'

But has every one of the 442 signatories opened a case with support? - might that make a more noticeable blip on Sonos' radar than this thread, which it seems that apart from very occasional attention from Ryan S, Sonos are paying absolutely no attention to?

I presume that since they do have a formal support operation, that they will be taking metrics from it, and potentially have board level representation for the support part of the organisation.

Several people have said things along the lines of "wouldn't want to be in Sonos' support dept, come the big day"... - why wait until then? - why not mount a sustained campaign of raising support requests - perhaps with a boilerplate title & issue description that we can agree between ourselves (like "the letter")...

Maybe, just maybe, a flood of many hundreds of near-identical support cases bemoaning their current course of action might garner more attention? - Of course it may very well garner no more productive outcome than the current parroting of the same-old same-old (which on past evidence seems depressingly likely), but even so, it would have to at least get 'some' attention right? - just to acknowledge a spike in the monthly stats?

We could even keep re-opening the cases if they keep just being closed with the same "tough luck" response... then the stats might get even more of a spike...

Ikrananka, do you think it would be worthwhile adding an additional strapline to your regular post with the URL for the support page, details of how to log a case, and perhaps the boilerplate items I mentioned above?


Wouldn’t this just be taking much needed support away from other genuine community customers who really need it. Do you want to do that to other folk that are not involved with these issues? I’m not sure that would bring about any further support for your cause. In fact it may help to turn the community majority against you. I don't personally think that is the best way to fight your corner.
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Sign the petition and contact Sonos customer support and let them know what you think.

442 signatures and growing :D

https://www.change.org/p/patrick-spence-ceo-sonos-stop-sonos-from-disabling-the-cr100-controller-from-their-system?recruiter=121008685&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition&utm_term=psf_combo_share_initial.undefined

Also, consider locking down your system to prevent your CR100 controller(s) from being bricked - must be done BEFORE the next Sonos software/firmware update). Checkout my guide here : https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/save-the-cr100-6800510/index86.html#post16220262


A thought occurred to me recently.... I know 'some' of us already have opened support cases with Sonos, mostly it would appear to little effect other than to have the case closed with the standard party line as the 'resolution'

But has every one of the 442 signatories opened a case with support? - might that make a more noticeable blip on Sonos' radar than this thread, which it seems that apart from very occasional attention from Ryan S, Sonos are paying absolutely no attention to?

I presume that since they do have a formal support operation, that they will be taking metrics from it, and potentially have board level representation for the support part of the organisation.

Several people have said things along the lines of "wouldn't want to be in Sonos' support dept, come the big day"... - why wait until then? - why not mount a sustained campaign of raising support requests - perhaps with a boilerplate title & issue description that we can agree between ourselves (like "the letter")...

Maybe, just maybe, a flood of many hundreds of near-identical support cases bemoaning their current course of action might garner more attention? - Of course it may very well garner no more productive outcome than the current parroting of the same-old same-old (which on past evidence seems depressingly likely), but even so, it would have to at least get 'some' attention right? - just to acknowledge a spike in the monthly stats?

We could even keep re-opening the cases if they keep just being closed with the same "tough luck" response... then the stats might get even more of a spike...

Ikrananka, do you think it would be worthwhile adding an additional strapline to your regular post with the URL for the support page, details of how to log a case, and perhaps the boilerplate items I mentioned above?


Wouldn’t this just be taking much needed support away from other genuine community customers who really need it. Do you want to do that to other folk that are not involved with these issues? I’m not sure that would bring about any further support for your cause. In fact it may help to turn the community majority against you. I don't personally think that is the best way to fight your corner.


Perhaps.... it was posited as a question, not a suggestion... But I can't help but think of famous letter writing campaigns of the past (Bjo Trimble/Star Trek comes to mind). Indeed I would not want to impinge on other "genuine community customers" if I can help it (well, most of them anyway)... but that would seem to imply that you regard the aggrieved CR100 users as not being "genuine community customers" - and I think I take a little bit of exception to that assertion... in very much my own opinion, my concern that my primary method of control of my system is slated to "stop working" is very much a genuine support issue... others may agree with that stance, or not, it's a free world.

I also think that, as has been evident, there are 'plenty' of users out there who don't know what's about to happen... - we keep seeing new posters pop up every other day starting their first post with "I've only just learned about this"... Don't you imagine that next Wednesday the support board is going to be flooded anyway with lots of "My CR100 is showing an error" support calls, and that is similarly going to have the same effect on other community members, and that's all of Sonos' own making?
Sign the petition and contact Sonos customer support and let them know what you think.

442 signatures and growing :D

https://www.change.org/p/patrick-spence-ceo-sonos-stop-sonos-from-disabling-the-cr100-controller-from-their-system?recruiter=121008685&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition&utm_term=psf_combo_share_initial.undefined

Also, consider locking down your system to prevent your CR100 controller(s) from being bricked - must be done BEFORE the next Sonos software/firmware update). Checkout my guide here : https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/save-the-cr100-6800510/index86.html#post16220262


A thought occurred to me recently.... I know 'some' of us already have opened support cases with Sonos, mostly it would appear to little effect other than to have the case closed with the standard party line as the 'resolution'

But has every one of the 442 signatories opened a case with support? - might that make a more noticeable blip on Sonos' radar than this thread, which it seems that apart from very occasional attention from Ryan S, Sonos are paying absolutely no attention to?

I presume that since they do have a formal support operation, that they will be taking metrics from it, and potentially have board level representation for the support part of the organisation.

Several people have said things along the lines of "wouldn't want to be in Sonos' support dept, come the big day"... - why wait until then? - why not mount a sustained campaign of raising support requests - perhaps with a boilerplate title & issue description that we can agree between ourselves (like "the letter")...

Maybe, just maybe, a flood of many hundreds of near-identical support cases bemoaning their current course of action might garner more attention? - Of course it may very well garner no more productive outcome than the current parroting of the same-old same-old (which on past evidence seems depressingly likely), but even so, it would have to at least get 'some' attention right? - just to acknowledge a spike in the monthly stats?

We could even keep re-opening the cases if they keep just being closed with the same "tough luck" response... then the stats might get even more of a spike...

Ikrananka, do you think it would be worthwhile adding an additional strapline to your regular post with the URL for the support page, details of how to log a case, and perhaps the boilerplate items I mentioned above?


Wouldn’t this just be taking much needed support away from other genuine community customers who really need it. Do you want to do that to other folk that are not involved with these issues? I’m not sure that would bring about any further support for your cause. In fact it may help to turn the community majority against you. I don't personally think that is the best way to fight your corner.


Perhaps.... it was posited as a question, not a suggestion... But I can't help but think of famous letter writing campaigns of the past (Bjo Trimble/Star Trek comes to mind). Indeed I would not want to impinge on other "genuine community customers" if I can help it (well, most of them anyway)... but that would seem to imply that you regard the aggrieved CR100 users as not being "genuine community customers" - and I think I take a little bit of exception to that assertion... in very much my own opinion, my concern that my primary method of control of my system is slated to "stop working" is very much a genuine support issue... others may agree with that stance, or not, it's a free world.

I also think that, as has been evident, there are 'plenty' of users out there who don't know what's about to happen... - we keep seeing new posters pop up every other day starting their first post with "I've only just learned about this"... Don't you imagine that next Wednesday the support board is going to be flooded anyway with lots of "My CR100 is showing an error" support calls, and that is similarly going to have the same effect on other community members, and that's all of Sonos' own making?


No, just to clear up one point you/we are all “genuine customers” ... I was talking about the “OTHER genuine customers” who are not affected by CR100 issue ... you have just misunderstood my post, if you think otherwise. I would not be so rude as to assert you were anything other than a genuine customer. In any event the main issue of my text is that it would be unfair to those OTHERS, who we all know have nothing to do with this forced obsolescence. To do anything that may take away from them their much needed Sonos customer support is not helpful. That’s why those OTHER folk often come to the community in the first place and they may need the help of Sonos customer support... I don’t think bogging the Support Team down with multiple 'repetitive' newly-opened support cases is achieving anything, other than it may drive away the support of those OTHERS from ever supporting your cause.

I’m sure many may already support your cause, like me, and have some empathy for your situation, so why do anything to spoil that? The argument is not even with Sonos Support in the first place, who are instructed employees of the company. You need to ensure the focus remains aimed at the decision makers and not the messenger.
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... It is the first time though I have ever seen Sonos give the user such prior notification of the impending release and I think a considerable amount of time to allow them to understand and consider their position since the original announcement which I think was first published on the 7th February ... so a good two months has passed since then.

Is that plenty of time for the user to make their own choice and take action accordingly? ... I think it is.

I am not sure two months really is "plenty of time for users to make their own choice and take action accordingly". Our choice may very well be to sell off (or return to Sonos for refund) all of our kit and replace the system with one that has a UI with a hard buttoned remote. This will costs tens of thousands of pounds and take weeks to arrange the installation. Not something to be undertaken lightly, so six rather than two months would be "plenty" of time in my opinion.
Userlevel 2
I have just updated my system to 8.4,(all PC's, tablets, ios devices and android devices.) this is the last update that supports the cr100. all auto updates are disabled and the family know not to manually update their phones, or they will lose functionality. I cant believe we need to do this to keep using a perfectly good controller. Next will be the CR200 as that is stuck on a legacy 7.2 firmware. I wonder why the cr100 cant be the same.
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... It is the first time though I have ever seen Sonos give the user such prior notification of the impending release and I think a considerable amount of time to allow them to understand and consider their position since the original announcement which I think was first published on the 7th February ... so a good two months has passed since then.

Is that plenty of time for the user to make their own choice and take action accordingly? ... I think it is.

I am not sure two months really is "plenty of time for users to make their own choice and take action accordingly". Our choice may very well be to sell off (or return to Sonos for refund) all of our kit and replace the system with one that has a UI with a hard buttoned remote. This will costs tens of thousands of pounds and take weeks to arrange the installation. Not something to be undertaken lightly, so six rather than two months would be "plenty" of time in my opinion.


I think I would concur... with expensive purchases, which usually implies long-term ownership, I tend to take a great deal of time & trouble to research thoroughly first. Rarely will I blow a couple of grand on an impulse buy. Case in point, I plan to purchase a new laptop this year... I've already been researching that purchase for more than 2 months, and I'm nowhere near ready to make a purchase decision yet. - and that's for something that should work out of the box... With a CR100 replacement, there are very many more considerations to take into account, and very much more "fettling" required to assemble a satisfactory replacement, likely involving components from disparate vendors..

It likely has to be a tablet of some kind, but which one? all the following questions have to be considered:
iOS or Android? (or some buggerated mishmash of Android)
7"?, 9"?, smaller?, bigger?
Are there any tablets that are even remotely moisture-proof?
If not, are there ruggedised cases that don't look like army surplus?
Does it support wireless charging?
If not, can it be added by an accessory?
Does the tablet manufacturer make a purpose built cradle? (with wireless charging)
If not, is there a 3rd party one that looks like a 1st party one? (with wireless charging)
Does either above cradle choice support wall mounting?
And with the right degree of 'rake' so I don't have to stoop to use it?
Do any tablets support wake on raise?
Do any tablets support wake on movement via the front camera?
Do any tablets support wake on screen touch (as opposed to button press)
Can the tablet app be pinned as the only app?
Can the app utilise the lockscreen?
Which app? - official Sonos or 3rd party?
Are there any tablets with at least a couple of hard buttons in sensible locations
And can the App use any such buttons?
etc.....

I've not arrived at a solution yet that addresses the shortcomings that anything that isn't a CR100 introduces to the equation.

Believe me, I would be absolutely overjoyed if someone can point me in the direction of a replacement solution that does NOT bring shortcomings that the CR100 doesn't suffer from...

PS: Chicks, - that answer is NOT a voice assistant... 🙂
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... I’m sure many may already support your cause, like me, and have some empathy for your situation, so why do anything to spoil that? The argument is not even with Sonos Support in the first place, who are instructed employees of the company. You need to ensure the focus remains aimed at the decision makers and not the messenger.
Sorry to remove so much of your post Ken_Griffiths, but I wanted to just pick up on this bit.

I took the OP's point as being that if the Sonos support department received loads of support requests then as an organisation "Sonos" would feel the pain and have to take action (and incur cost) in order to retain the current high customer service satisfaction levels and quick response times, rather than your view that Sonos would allow their service levels to other users get impacted.

I cannot believe that Sonos did not anticipate the reaction to the proposed 8.5 update and plan accordingly. In fact the "outcry" to date may very well be a lot less than they expected! I am sure they will have contingency plans in place for next week's update just as they had for the initial February announcement.

Sonos have made a strategic decision about the direction they want to move in and if that means dumping a few hundred users in order to attract many thousands more then it may well the correct decision. But how they "look after" (or otherwise") the few hundred early adopters is the issue.

Nice as the OP's theory was, I do not believe that 450 or even 1,450 such support requests would have any beneficial outcome on the CR100 issue. We are just far too small a part of the user base. 😞
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I reached for my Cr100 yesterday to turn on some tunes. It was missing from its cradle still mounted, waiting, in mourning. iPad no sonos network detected. iPhone no sonos network detected. PC no sonos network detected. All made me so sad when internet was still running on all these devices. Rebooted the switch it is connected to and it came back but the urge had left me.

So sad. Damage done.

Two controller stuck on 8.4 and batteries deliberately drained just in case a door is opened in future.


I'm ready for the tech squad to launch a 2 pronged attack here but I think you can carry on using them....

As far as I can see, the firmware of the CR100 has not been updated in some time - mine are at 4.3.2 whilst all my ZPs etc. are at 8.4. Note oggyuk's observations above re: the CR200

I think we have all agreed that Sonos never performs an auto update. In my case, 3 weeks ago I was on version 7 point something so I've never had a forced update. And if someone initiates a manual check for updates, it has to be confirmed again. It takes more than 'finger trouble' to set it off.

And even then, I don't think this will update the firmware of the CR100.

This is the key bit, just in case that door is opened in the future
It is my guess that the CR100 will not have its memory wiped clean with 8.5 (ie bricked in the conventional sense). I think that, simply, the CR100 support code will be stripped out of all the ZPs, speakers etc. etc.

I am making some vague assumptions re: the above

1. I am correct
2. People in your household don't regularly check for updates and then set them off.
3. Friends don't visit, whip out their iphones and do an update for you - just for a laugh. Wifi password would fix that one...

If I were in your position, I would still use my CR100s as usual....

All usual disclaimers etc.
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The CR100 hasn't been meaningfully upgraded since 2014 per the lockscreen. I keep my Sonos on a different Wifi than Guests get access to. That keeps the iPhone crowd off the Sonos. That's no help with Android though as it speaks SonosNet which has zero security and anyone can pair with your gear with just the press of a button.

As I understand it, the CR100's will not be bricked. Instead, Zone Players will be programmed to simply no longer acknowledge them. That gives Sonos the out re: accusing them of 'bricking' the CR100. "Your honor, it still works - but the user elected to upgrade the player and the player is no longer compatible with the CR100". Said hypothetical statement may not even remotely pass the common-sense smell test but it may be good enough for an lawsuit.

Makes you wonder if one could write a 8.4 emulator to run on a Rasberry Pi to translate the 8.5 zone player content for Apps into a CR100-compatible SonosNET access point. Then turn off SonosNet on the Zone Players and have the CR100s only 'talk' to the Rasberry Pi (which will emulate a Zone Player to the controller and a Controller to the Zone Player). Sonos will likely consider this some sort of Man-in-the-middle attack though.

Bottom line: Sonos is simply indifferent to the user base affected by this decision. I hope everyone who cared about this issue has been made aware and locked down their systems accordingly.
... It is the first time though I have ever seen Sonos give the user such prior notification of the impending release and I think a considerable amount of time to allow them to understand and consider their position since the original announcement which I think was first published on the 7th February ... so a good two months has passed since then.

Is that plenty of time for the user to make their own choice and take action accordingly? ... I think it is.

I am not sure two months really is "plenty of time for users to make their own choice and take action accordingly". Our choice may very well be to sell off (or return to Sonos for refund) all of our kit and replace the system with one that has a UI with a hard buttoned remote. This will costs tens of thousands of pounds and take weeks to arrange the installation. Not something to be undertaken lightly, so six rather than two months would be "plenty" of time in my opinion.


I see the issue as being two quite 'decisive and distinct' routes here that are open to every Sonos user concerned with these matters...

The routes are...

(A) Follow the 'official' corporate supported advice, update to 8.5 firmware and scrap the CR100 controller and continue with any other freely available means of control.

(B) Follow the 'unofficial' (users-provided) advice in this thread and remain at 8.4 firmware, or lower, and continue with things as they are now and accept the highlighted risks mentioned in the Sonos guidance.

The actual decision to sell/exchange/swap/return or buy new equipment to replace Sonos hardware is not time-limited in either circumstance. These things can be done at any point, either now or in the future, once A or B have been chosen.

The important thing is Sonos have given us all a two months notification period to basically choose a course of either A or B above.

I needed a week or two to make my own decision. It’s not that difficult to pick 'A' or 'B' and in fairness, if you were to choose B now, you could go on later and swap things and select A at a later date, that’s if you are indecisive and prefer to delay things. It’s just not a decision that I see that requires the notification period to be extended any further. It wasn’t something johngolfuk’s letter to the Sonos CEO asked for, was it?

Anyhow I still think two months is reasonable, all things considered.
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The CR100 hasn't been meaningfully upgraded since 2014 per the lockscreen. I keep my Sonos on a different Wifi than Guests get access to. That keeps the iPhone crowd off the Sonos. That's no help with Android though as it speaks SonosNet which has zero security and anyone can pair with your gear with just the press of a button.


That's not correct, in order to connect an Android device to the SonosNet you first have to be connected to the Sonos system and enable "Connect to SonosNet" in the app:
https://sonos.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1589/kw/android%20sonosnet
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Sign the petition and contact Sonos customer support (https://sonos.custhelp.com/app/ask?_ga) and let them know what you think.

447 signatures and growing :D

https://www.change.org/p/patrick-spence-ceo-sonos-stop-sonos-from-disabling-the-cr100-controller-from-their-system?recruiter=121008685&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition&utm_term=psf_combo_share_initial.undefined

Also, consider locking down your system to prevent your CR100 controller(s) from being bricked - must be done BEFORE NEXT WEEK, i.e. when the 8.5 software/firmware update is rolled out). Checkout my guide here : https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/save-the-cr100-6800510/index86.html#post16220262
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That's not correct, in order to connect an Android device to the SonosNet you first have to be connected to the Sonos system and enable "Connect to SonosNet" in the app:
https://sonos.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1589/kw/android%20sonosnet


You may have misunderstood me. I'm referring to security from the Zone Player POV. Yes, your Android App needs authorization but the Zone Player offers ZERO security re: what devices may pair with it other than perhaps a physical keypress on the Zone Player. There are no passwords, or other like means of restricting who gets to access your Sonos devices, who gets to upgrade them, etc.

This is one reason that claiming that users can elect not to upgrade their Zone Players is disingenuous - ANYONE can trigger a zone player upgrade as long as they have access to your Sonos network. There is no going back either once it happens. So, active measures like blocking the firmware upgrade servers at Sonos, port 4444, etc. at the router level if you want to maintain your system at 8.4 is necessary.
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Anyhow I still think two months is reasonable, all things considered.

LOL, I'm glad I don't have a vacation home somewhere with a Sonos running in it. This is one reason technical support will likely keep hearing from folk at least through summer.
That's not correct, in order to connect an Android device to the SonosNet you first have to be connected to the Sonos system and enable "Connect to SonosNet" in the app:
https://sonos.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1589/kw/android%20sonosnet


You may have misunderstood me. I'm referring to security from the Zone Player POV. Yes, your Android App needs authorization but the Zone Player offers ZERO security re: what devices may pair with it other than perhaps a physical keypress on the Zone Player. There are no passwords, or other like means of restricting who gets to access your Sonos devices, who gets to upgrade them, etc.
But to get access to your Sonos they have to be on your wifi network, and you can prevent that. Without your wifi password, nobody can upgrade or do anything else to your Sonos system.
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That's not correct, in order to connect an Android device to the SonosNet you first have to be connected to the Sonos system and enable "Connect to SonosNet" in the app:
https://sonos.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1589/kw/android%20sonosnet


You may have misunderstood me. I'm referring to security from the Zone Player POV. Yes, your Android App needs authorization but the Zone Player offers ZERO security re: what devices may pair with it other than perhaps a physical keypress on the Zone Player. There are no passwords, or other like means of restricting who gets to access your Sonos devices, who gets to upgrade them, etc.

This is one reason that claiming that users can elect not to upgrade their Zone Players is disingenuous - ANYONE can trigger a zone player upgrade as long as they have access to your Sonos network. There is no going back either once it happens. So, active measures like blocking the firmware upgrade servers at Sonos, port 4444, etc. at the router level if you want to maintain your system at 8.4 is necessary.


IF you lock down the network the ZP is on (at the gateway) then the ZP will not be able to get out to the update.sonos.com URL and download the update.
As I explained elsewhere in this mega-topic each Sonos device goes out to the download site on its own (the ZP's Are invoked by the controller) and downloads the firmware. if you block the sites at the gateway they cannot get the firmware.

Another way to put it is: the Controller DOES NOT provide or push the update to the player.
If someone comes on property and connects to the Sonos network with a later firmware their controller will advise that the players MUST be upgraded to work, then the player upgrade will fail (if locked down) and the user will simply NOT be able to use their controller to work your players.
So, as you stated, Anyone can trigger the update, but if you lock down your network it will fail.

My own daughter was a bit pissed to hear that she would not be able to control my Sonos household with her phone once the upgrade happens, as she has her own players and does not use the CR100 she does not care about the issue. Once her phone is upgraded she will have to use a CR100 or CR200 when she visits.....
add "family strife" as an added effect to Sonos's decision to kill the CR100.....

hope this clears up how that works.....
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That's not correct, in order to connect an Android device to the SonosNet you first have to be connected to the Sonos system and enable "Connect to SonosNet" in the app:
https://sonos.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1589/kw/android%20sonosnet


You may have misunderstood me. I'm referring to security from the Zone Player POV. Yes, your Android App needs authorization but the Zone Player offers ZERO security re: what devices may pair with it other than perhaps a physical keypress on the Zone Player. There are no passwords, or other like means of restricting who gets to access your Sonos devices, who gets to upgrade them, etc.

This is one reason that claiming that users can elect not to upgrade their Zone Players is disingenuous - ANYONE can trigger a zone player upgrade as long as they have access to your Sonos network. There is no going back either once it happens. So, active measures like blocking the firmware upgrade servers at Sonos, port 4444, etc. at the router level if you want to maintain your system at 8.4 is necessary.


You stated that you keep Sonos on a separate WiFi than your guests and that that would keep "the iPhone crowd off the Sonos", but the same goes for Android as I stated. As long as an Android device isn't connected to the same network as your Sonos there's no way to connect them to the SonosNet, not even with a button press.
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You stated that you keep Sonos on a separate WiFi than your guests and that that would keep "the iPhone crowd off the Sonos", but the same goes for Android as I stated. As long as an Android device isn't connected to the same network as your Sonos there's no way to connect them to the SonosNet, not even with a button press.
Not to my knowledge.

Based on my experience and the input from others, iOS Apps use TCP/IP exclusively to talk to the Zone Players. If you turn off SonosNet, your SonosNet-dependent controllers like the CR100 and CR200 will then no longer be able to communicate with the Zone Players, but your iOS devices will be able to (assuming your zone players are reachable via TCP/IP).

Android devices can use SonosNet, which will run in parallel to any WiFi your home may or may not have. In the very document you referenced Sonos states: "Connecting an Android device to SonosNet allows you to have control anywhere you have Sonos speakers, even outside of WiFi range." After all, all your Zone Players could be hard wired to ethernet instead of relying on WiFi for communication.

The native ability to speak SonosNet is a major distinction between the iOS and the Android App. I presume that the iOS App can't speak SonosNet because of security concerns by Apple. However, I am happy to be wrong and have no idea whether Fire tablets speak SonosNet or just use TCP/IP like iOS Apps.

Whether or not Android devices can speak native SonosNet is not really the issue here. Rather, it's that accidental updates are extremely easy and completely impossible to undo. Anyone that walks in with a SonosNET-"native speaker" App can easily pair up, initiate a update (remember, the App nags if it's out of sync with the zone player and prompts the update).

This is why cutting off access to Sonos firmware servers is essential. There are no safeguards to ensure that the actual owner of the equipment is requesting the upgrade: No PIN, no password, nothing. Once upgraded, there is no way back either. Essentially, Sonos designed the upgrade process as a one way journey that can be initiated in any number of different ways to ensure its entire user base will upgrade, whether they want to or not.

So if use of the CR100 is important to you, isolate your zone players from the firmware servers and then test to confirm.
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My own daughter was a bit pissed to hear that she would not be able to control my Sonos household with her phone once the upgrade happens, as she has her own players and does not use the CR100 she does not care about the issue. Once her phone is upgraded she will have to use a CR100 or CR200 when she visits.....
add "family strife" as an added effect to Sonos's decision to kill the CR100.....

Installing SonoPhone / SonoPad solves that problem (assuming she's on iOS, dunno about Android).
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Android devices can use SonosNet, which will run in parallel to any WiFi your home may or may not have. In the very document you referenced Sonos states: "Connecting an Android device to SonosNet allows you to have control anywhere you have Sonos speakers, even outside of WiFi range." After all, all your Zone Players could be hard wired to ethernet instead of relying on WiFi for communication.

The native ability to speak SonosNet is a major distinction between the iOS and the Android App. I presume that the iOS App can't speak SonosNet because of security concerns by Apple. However, I am happy to be wrong and have no idea whether Fire tablets speak SonosNet or just use TCP/IP like iOS Apps.


That's what I'm trying to tell you here, you are right about iOS and Android, but an Android device can only connect to SonosNet AFTER they connect to your WiFi, Connect to your Sonos system and you enable "Connect to SonosNet" specifically for that controller in the Sonos App of that specific Android device. Not in any other way like with a button press or just because it's Android and you run SonosNet.


Whether or not Android devices can speak native SonosNet is not really the issue here. Rather, it's that accidental updates are extremely easy and completely impossible to undo. Anyone that walks in with a SonosNET-"native speaker" App can easily pair up, initiate a update (remember, the App nags if it's out of sync with the zone player and prompts the update).


So if you don't grant anyone access to the same network your Sonos system is on (iOS or Android doesn't matter), no one is able to connect to your Sonos system and can't accidentally update your system.
It is total garbage to suggest that it is possible to connect to a Sonos system with an Android device that has not previously been connected to that Sonos system via wifi. An Android device simply cannot connect to any Sonos system it comes across

@Damon77 is totally correct.
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...

I see the issue as being two quite 'decisive and distinct' routes here that are open to every Sonos user concerned with these matters...

The routes are...

(A) Follow the 'official' corporate supported advice, update to 8.5 firmware and scrap the CR100 controller and continue with any other freely available means of control.

(B) Follow the 'unofficial' (users-provided) advice in this thread and remain at 8.4 firmware, or lower, and continue with things as they are now and accept the highlighted risks mentioned in the Sonos guidance.


Actually, having raised a ticket on this issue, the route B options described in this thread are pretty much the same as those that Sonos support will provide you with.

The only thing I will also do is mentioned in some previous posts, namely removing sonos apps and getting another alternative. They might be less well rounded (or not), but will not give the same accidental update issue.
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Without your wifi password, nobody can upgrade or do anything else to your Sonos system.

See the document that Damon77 referenced. Android Apps can speak SonosNet natively, no WiFi needed. All you need to do is pair the App and the player. From the description it is unclear whether TCP/IP or just physical access for pairing is needed or not (have no experience with the Android App), but even if it is, you only need access to one zone player in the entire network to initiate a site-wide firmware update. The 'upgrade' process at Sonos is designed to happen, whether the consumer wants it to or not.

Let me put it another way: If Sonos was serious about giving us a choice re: the upgrade process then it would go further than allowing the consumer to opt out of automatic updates. They would give us the option to select the firmware we want to run, much like Sonos' competitors (BlueSound, Denon, and Paradigm at minimum). Competitors even allow the user base to download and store firmwares for later use.

Even if that bridge is too far, Sonos could have given us the means to lock down the update process with a PIN or password to avoid accidental updates by non-authorized users. The company has chosen not to, even though storing passwords is not the problem (otherwise, no access to Audible and other paid-content streaming services, right?) No, instead, CR100-aficionados are expected to invoke all sorts of arcane work-arounds to secure our Sonos systems just to prevent the company from essentially remote-disabling legally-owned, functional equipment.

This is why I am unhappy with the current direction at Sonos. Essentially, they want to dictate what equipment we can and can't use, even after legally purchasing it.
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It is total garbage to suggest that it is possible to connect to a Sonos system with an Android device that has not previously been connected to that Sonos system via wifi. An Android device simply cannot connect to any Sonos system it comes across

@Damon77 is totally correct.

If true, I suggest you contact Sonos with an improvement suggestion to the article Damon77 referenced. It doesn't mention the need to connect via WiFi first.

I am happy to be wrong re: the Android App. As I mentioned previously, I have no experience with it. I can only go by what Sonos publishes about its use. If that information is incorrect...