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SAVE THE CR100



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3233 replies

Userlevel 7
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BTW, does anybody know what happens after version 8.5 (or whatever) is released and I want to add a player that's on 8.4 which matches my other components? Will the updater force me to migrate to 8.5 in order to add the new player? or will it allow the new component to operate on 8.4? I know an upgrade to the latest version is mandatory if there's a version mismatch between existing components and the new player, but what happens if they all share the same firmware version (albeit not the latest)?

From all the repair and testing I managed to do over the weekend, It looks to me that if you get all the gear up to the same version (currently 8.4) and lock down the network everything works well.
if you bring another player or control to the network that is also on 8.4 you will be OK and can add it to the network.
if the new unit is on any other version you will not be able to add it to your network as it will have to "get its upgrade" from Sonos and 8.4 will no longer be available.
I had an issue already not being able to simply add a couple CR100's to my existing network, and as a test I had "factory reset" one unit that was running fine. I had to go thru Sonos support and they had to connect to one of my players to put it into "development mode" before I was able to connect the (3) CR100's to network, once he rebooted the player the development mode was wiped out and It appears I could not add another CR100 without supports help.
so in essence, they have already crippled the ability to attach a CR100 to an existing system, how long before support refuses to help users with unusable CR100's and yet firmware "locked" players.

short answer, once we are locked down it does not appear as if any other devices can be added unless they were already on the same firmware.
Sonos is forcing their oldest and most loyal customers to basically no longer be "able" to purchase any more Sonos items.

Sonos, Please find a way to give us the ability to keep what we purchased working, at least for the use they were purchased for, and we will remain loyal customers. force us to put up walls and "lockdown" our networks in an attempt to keep our purchased hardware "safe" and you no longer have loyal customers, you have created a vocal group of angry OWNERS (no longer customers) that can no longer praise your product or purchase any more.

craziest business model I have ever seen a company go after.
Userlevel 7
Badge +11
1500 replies. Hopefully enough for somebody to take notice.Number of replies is irrelevant. As @ratty has pointed out previously, there are barely more than 200 unique posters, not all of them complaining.
True give or take 29 apparently!

But for every poster there will be another one (or two?) who cannot be bothered to post as they have just accepted that the demise of the CR100 is not within their ability to influence and of course this may very well be the case.

Furthermore any user with less than about 7 years (or was it longer) of Sonos ownership will never have even used a CR100 so all those users could not care less about a few hundred early adopters getting on their high horse - No do Sonos it seems!

However I think this misses the point that perhaps we should all have raised back in 2014 when updates for the CR100 were stopped. As an early adopter of the Sonos system I was attracted by the Sonos philosophy of making "multi zone whole house stereo" as easy and enjoyable an experience as possible.

Sonos achieved this with; Sonos Net/Mesh, very simple "plug and play" units, a bespoke controller, free of charge updates, additional features delivered over time and a really vibrant user forum. The CR100 controller was very good but not perfect, the menu system took a bit of getting used to and back in the day I seem to remember making a few suggestions on how the menus etc. could be improved!!

Over time Sonos has moved away from this original philosophy in order to add more features and to attract more price sensitive users. Compare the installation of a PlayBar, Sub and pair of Play 1s to the original "plug and play" set-up of a couple of ZP100 or ZP80 ZonePlayers! The PlayBar with Sub and satellite Play 1s is great and we love it, but it was not an easy set up.

Killing the CR100 without offering an alternative that is as easy and fast to use is not making "multi zone whole house stereo" as easy and enjoyable an experience as possible. It is making the current experience just that little bit worse.

This is the reason I feel so betrayed and ready to move away from Sonos. I was sold a philosophy and promise that Sonos seem poised to break. After 14 years of enjoying the system and extolling the virtues of Sonos to anyone who would listen, it will be painful and embarrassing to have to admit I was wrong (let alone the cost and inconvenience of having to replace everything!!).

TJRL
7x CR100, 2x CR200, 1x ZP80, 7x ZP100, 1x iPod Dock, 1x Boost, 4x Play 1, 3x Play 3, 2x Play 5, 1x PlayBar & 1x Sub.

PS - And do not get me started on the demise of the original user forum into "Ask Sonos" and now this "Community"!!
Userlevel 6
Badge +3
@ Ken,
With all due respect Ken, I've read almost all of your comments on this and other parts of the community forum. I can't help but think you are either an employee, associate, or board member of Sonos. This is the Save the CR100 topic, not Sonos can do no wrong topic.

Many households across the planet face loosing the very best device to control their whole-home music systems in their honest and heartfelt opinions. It's a big loss and Sonos has behaved very badly in rolling this mess out.

Please fawn over the new management team in another discussion area.
Userlevel 1
is there a way to disconnect from internet, so it still can be used??
Userlevel 2
Ironically, my last post to this forum congratulated Sonos for continuing to support the CR100 for so long. Perhaps I should have kept my big mouth shut.

Anyway, like several others, I found out about this quite recently by accident. Sonos, despite having my email address that hasn't changed in twenty years, never contacted me about it (I've checked my mailer logs; there is nothing there). When I contacted Sonos support, they told me that I wasn't unique; lot's of people are only now discovering what is about to happen.

I have read all 80 depressing pages of this thread in the vain hope that there would be an announcement that somebody in the Sonos senior management has had an attack of common sense. No luck so far, and it's not looking good. I just don't understand the rationale behind doing something that is guaranteed to piss off the early adopters (and probable evangelists for the system).

If the "compensation" offer had been per CR100, rather than per system, then I think it would not have been seen in such a negative light. And, despite my anger at this decision, I think that £100 per CR100 would have been a generous offer for hardware that is ten years old, or more. Despite that, I'd rather have my CR100 controllers working than "compensation". Add me to those who would like a legacy version of the software going forward, without the risk of it being accidently updated. Ideally, I'd like a password that must be supplied before an update is possible. That way, somebody couldn't accidently "improve" my system without my consent.

I also would like an answer to the "is this a safety recall or not?" question.

I'm not one of those who think that the UI of the CR100 is exemplary. For example, burying the power-off function four levels deep (System Settings -> Controller Settings -> Advanced Settings -> Turn Off Controller) ... Really? Turning it off is "advanced"? And text input has always been clunky. But, despite its faults, the CR100 is rock solid reliable. When my other controllers are having a bad day and reporting that they can't see any sonos components at all (happens once or twice a month) my CR100 controllers have NEVER had a problem.

I can't claim that the CR100 is my main controller. These days, I'm much more often to be found using a tablet or phone to select music —except, of course, when the damn things can't see the zoneplayers. But there is one use case where they are in regular, everyday, use by my wife: coming down in the morning and turning on the radio. She really doesn't want to faff around looking for her phone/tablet, fire up the controller app, select the radio station and then start it up. She wants an "on" button. For that one use case there is an answer: the iPort xPRESS audio keypad. Programming the radio station as the top favourite means that she can come down in the morning and turn everything on with a single button press. By coincidence, it is priced at 1p less than the compensation figure Sonos are offering and is available at the one place where the compensation voucher must be spent. It isn't a replacement for a bricked CR100, but it's better than nothing and it also acts as a quick mute. [Edit: Unfortunately for some, it requires an IOS device to program, which may be a showstopper if you are in the "no Apple products for me" camp]

It is shameful that we have not been given the real reasons for the decision to brick the CR100 (the battery scaremongering is just FUD) but, as long time customers already know, Sonos have always been secretive and dictatorial. When the dictatorship is benevolent that's OK; not so much when it turns malevolent.
Userlevel 7
Badge +2
In repairing the CR100 I have come to realize:

In reading Don Ward's question, and thinking about what I have seen while actually repairing the CR100s from simple battery replacements right down to resurrecting (4) additional units from scrap parts involving surface mount soldering and screen replacements this is what I have learned.
Sonos created one hell of a remote in the CR100. the CR200 would only wish to be so well designed and assembled.

1: the Battery,
at the risk of calling Sonos "out and out liars" on the battery issues (do not hurt yourself reading between the line on this one, I AM Calling Sonos liars)
this is a hermetically sealed 3.6v Lithium battery with a very nice connector on the end of the wires. (So if it truly was NOT meant to be replaced, why was it not soldered to the board)
this is a rather low current and certainly low voltage battery. Everything made today that started the whole "Battery fire risk" issue in the media are all of higher voltage and MUCH higher current and the devices were typically created to USE the very high current (think hover-boards).
Oh, and for the board police that are going to jump all over the Samsung Exploding phones, that was a bad battery design and manufacture, I will submit to the court for consideration that after these long 12+ years of use I have no evidence of "battery failure or fire" from the CR100.
As a matter of fact, all the very old batteries in my junk pile were simply DEAD, and did NOTHING when reconnected to the charger as they were designed with monitoring circuits for temperature and charge current monitoring during charge.

Only risk I have seen:
there was one thing I noticed on a number of remotes that had me thinking it was "battery related" but now I realize it was not.
I found this to be typical in the CR100 and the ZP100, these units all have MOV's (Over-voltage protection, or surge protection) built in them.
An MOV will short itself out in the event of an over-voltage spike, IE: lightning hit or power surge.
I DID find about 50% of my scrap units (I had bought a pile of junk CR100 a couple years ago, they came to me as scrap) had an interesting "melting" of the plastic on the inside, initially I thought it was the battery but then I found there was an MOV and a surface mounted FUSE on the power supply/charging circuit board.
I was even able to repair a couple of these board to bring back to life more CR100's.

This MOV protection is built into the ZP100s and I will assume most others. On the CR100 its a rather low voltage unit since it only get 6V from the charger, on the Players its line voltage.
Best Advice I can give everyone that would like to limit the damage to ALL of the Sonos Gear, place a good surge protector on EVERY item you are plugging into power, this way if the surge happens it will easier to replace the external protector than repair the unit.

As for the CR100, the Power Supply / Charging board was very well designed, I never once saw anything to suggest the batteries were even able to "overheat" or cause fires.
an MOV committing hari-kari (as its designed to do) doing its job during an surge situation will short itself out, could create a small amount of heat and in the end blow the soldered fuse on the board. (as its designed to do)

in the end, and much to Sonos's dismay, these units do not die of natural causes, surges will kill them, and even if the battery is dead due, due to the design of the charging circuit you can leave the charger connected and the unit simply works.

Battery failure fire issues, not in what I have seen, Sounds like they are using Fear to get people to toss out something they simply no longer want to support.

if I am wrong Sonos, show me otherwise, please.


ONE MORE THING to think about.
batteries, and how they work with these devices.
when did we first start to hear about Lithium Batteries causing fires?
only in the last 5-6 years when the manufacturers kept pushing them for high current levels, this includes Laptops as they use higher voltage and current. AND the use of "high speed" charging.
NOT for ANY cell phone or small device made in 2005. I do not remember any with this type of design as they are leak proof, were built with monitoring in the charging circuit and provide far lower voltage and current than the demands of the product made today. The chargers for these units are also NOT high speed in any way. there is not Heat issues I have ever seen with these units. (If anyone can prove me wrong then please do, I would imagine if Sonos actually had any reports of fire caused by the batteries we could see some reports or pictures)

the "battery excuse" is using today's Fear on yesterdays product and does not merit the decision to shut them down "For our safety"

no, the real reason is likely that Sonos does not, or better put, cannot support the CR100 along with the added services they are trying to ram down our throats, which admittedly did not exist when this product was made and purchased, and I for one do not care to have.
The "Cannot Support" could be they no longer have the technical talent that understands the product, but I fear its more to likelihood they do not want to invest any more expense into its limited user-base to keep it going. ("Thanks for making us what we are today, now "screw"")

either way, its a very poor idea and forced termination of ANY item should not be allowed.

Truth would be nice, Choice to remain as I am should be provided.
Userlevel 7
Badge +2
I don't expect that Sonos will be able to rebuild the trust it lost with the folk that had their gear arbitrarily disabled. People trusted Sonos to do the right thing, that 'updates' would produce meaningful improvements for them. Well, the company just set a precedent telling you all just how important you are to the management team.

The management team could have made any number of accommodations... but any accommodation would have loosened their grip your Sonos stereo system... which appears unacceptable, just as it appears unacceptable for Sonos users to have a real choice re: the firmware that their Sonos property gets to run.

Our property only gets to run the latest firmware if something breaks, a new component is added, etc. In other words, you may own a piece of hardware but Sonos controls your experience. Anytime they feel like altering said experience, it will eventually happen.

The Sonos-can-do-no-wrong crowd here may be OK with that while pleading for new features like functional Alexa integration, I simply want to use my Sonos as intended when I bought the thing.


Constantin
Agreed++
I have made the same statement a number of times.
when Sonos came out, the CR100 WAS the only handheld controller.
the "Sonos Experience" was expected to use this quite expensive yet very well built controller. (so well built Sonos is sorry for it)
I for one am NOT interested in the "new Sonos Experience" with Voice control and "all streaming all the time"
Sonos should have, and still can if they ever see the light. provide a "legacy" or "Classic" firmware path that would magically breathe new life back into the CR100, but this would require them to allow their users a "choice" in the Sonos Experience the user wishes to have, one with all the older gear working and the other with all the newer wiz-bang voice control.

Take a look at the last weeks worth of complaints on the message boards, and the fact it appears they just admitted to some of the newer services "never" being able to work on the older players, so its not going to be long before the ZP80/100/Play5-1st gen is going to relegated to the "broken" condition the CR100 had been in the past 2 years as they sort out a way to kill them off "for the benefit of the ongoing Sonos Experience"
just a matter of time.

give me choice, and I chose to keep what I purchased operational, I am happy with that.
to each his own, but Sonos will not allow that it seems.
if you elect to continue to purchase Sonos gear make sure to check the expiration date on the box.
Userlevel 7
Badge +2
[...] The management team could have made any number of accommodations... but any accommodation would have loosened their grip your Sonos stereo system... which appears unacceptable, just as it appears unacceptable for Sonos users to have a real choice re: the firmware that their Sonos property gets to run. [...]
Has it ever occurred to you that this would be a support nightmare?


Funny,
I would suggest that what they have NOW is a nightmare...
I would also say shame on them for assuming the owners of their gear would simply bend over and take the killing off of ANY of the Sonos gear without getting a load of static about it.
as for support to simply keep API's and security subscriptions current while NOT having to do any further development to a "legacy" product path, sure there will be some added support required but they will be simply updating the same certs and API's that the current version would be getting and nothing else......
they sold us the Sonos Experience that worked for an intended purpose, not what they are pushing today. I believe it is their moral duty to allow us he ability to stay that way.
how they make that happen is truly their problem.
what they have forced on us became OUR problem.

for that matter, I want to see V8.1 or V8.2 to become the Legacy standard, they crippled quite a bit of the abilities we had to "see status of the players" in V8.4 and we can no longer even add a CR100 to V8.4 without supports helps, and they will not help anymore..

not done asking for an official Legacy Version that will allow the old gear to survive, without it Sonos will not get any more of my hard earned money....
Userlevel 1
Similar story to you.
I liked having the convenience of one of my controllers sitting out on my covered entertaining area to be used during party’s etc
Easy to quickly grab and change volume, skip tracks etc which anyone could easily do and not have to worry about leaving my phone lying about. Also very rugged and didn’t mind getting dropped or the occasional splash of water or beverage 🙂 Like you I also have a few of these, would hope to get a voucher for each unit.
Userlevel 7
Badge +2
The ZP80 is just as voice control capable as the Play:5 2nd gen and the Playbase, as are all other Sonos players made since 2005. I know, I control one with an Echo in my living room.

As to the posting of this type nonsense, if someone continuously post things that are so demonstrably wrong, I can only surmise they are either ignorant, or spreading FUD. Either way, it is not doing the cause any good.


I would ask Ryan S to read this completely and realize who asked for this response before you think about deleting it.

In this SINGLE TOPIC and over 100 posts I have made I have not once berated anyone or tried to come off as the "total authority" on any subject, I have certainly expressed my opinions and beliefs, and have rescinded my opinions on topics that I have been proven wrong on.

I am also very impressed in the very few minutes it took for (2) people to jump down my throat in this last post... its obvious you are watching posts from all over the boards and yet you found this one in minutes,.... I would be surprised if you were not paid by Sonos.

if you are speaking FOR SONOS please let me know if you can guarantee the First Gen gear, which to me is the ZP80, ZP100 WILL continue to be supported while the CR100 is being dropped for the sake of safety and aging CPU's?
And then how would you know, given the direction of Sonos and moving to the Integrated Voice fad that even the ZP80 you have, will "continue" to work in another couple years. you do not, and yet you speak with such authority.

You have stated openly they you do not care if the CR100 is gone, and you wish you could be running voice control and full whole house integration TODAY, so why is this topic so important to you that you must monitor and comment on it?
do you have something to offer to SAVE the CR100?
and once Sonos is allowed to kill of the lowly controller what's next? its going to be the CR200, and then the ZP100, and the ZP80 will not be far behind as they decide to build the much needed "added capabilities" to the units.
Unless they are interested in building a way to allow user to "opt Out" officially and keep what they have running, we will all be targets for the next hardware "termination" by Sonos if they do not afford us some respect for our purchases.

as proof, do I have to remind you that the CR100 IS working just fine for us today (like your ZP80), but it will be trash in the next few weeks unless WE build walls. And you want to tell me your ZP80 is running thru Voice Control "just fine", that's today, so long as Sonos evidently decides they are OK with it and does not decide the ZP80 is no longer in their plans.......

can you tell me when they will change their minds? No?

Ignorant? Really?, I would suggest Your Ignorance in allowing Sonos to do this to anyone with product they purchased and not being offended about it is truly sad. You may very well find allowing any company to do this will come back to eventually bite you in the ass as well....

You will notice I did not actually call you "ignorant".

Go find your "kill the Cr100 now" topic and post there,

and finally,. Sonos, find a way to keep the CR100 alive in the Eco-System, give the users options- PLEASE
Userlevel 7
Badge +8

JGatie - keep taking what you are given - never strive for better - great attitude for life.


Life is far too short to worry about 12 year old luxury electronics or to stress away over how a billion dollar corporation feels about 0.002% of its customers. I'd rather not tilt at windmills, for there are way too many constructive, relaxing, or charitable things to do with my life than make a "tempest in a teapot" stink over a nameless, faceless corporation that I somehow feel "owes" me something. I either accept it, or vote with my wallet and move on.

And that, in my not so humble opinion, is a "great attitude for life". As always, YMMV! :D


I would whole heartedly agree with you if you hadn't made 16,378 replies on this forum. Including a considerable number in a thread about a topic that you view as tilting at windmills. That can't be constructive, relaxing or charitable. Antagonistic maybe but not that which you apparently strive for. You have spent too much time worrying about the 0.002% of customers. Move on?
Userlevel 4
Badge +1
As Sonos have gone quiet on us we must presume that they are going to proceed regardless.
Accordingly I think it prudent to take steps to protect ourselves.

I need to check my system tonight but last time I tried to block port 4444 it took my internet radio streams offline in Sonos.
I have only blocked update.sonos.com in my router.

I think all users of the CR100 should write to Sonos to confirm we do not consent to their unlawful interference with our sonos systems. Here is a very rough draft of a letter - very happy for other people to input into this.

Dear Sirs,

As a longstanding user of a SONOS music system ("System") with 6 CR100 controllers ("CR100's") and associated players representing a significant investment in the System I was concerned to see the news that you are going to intentionally damage my System with the forthcoming software update in April 2018.

You have stated that the software update in April will permanently disconnect my CR100's from the System thereby rendering them useless and having a hugely detrimental effect on my use of the System. I have a CR100 for each zone of the System.

You have made no provision for me to "opt-out" of this process and, when pressed for guidance on how to do this, you have merely stated that you do not recommend people try to "opt-out". This is not acceptable.

In order to protect my System from this threatened harm I have blocked access to the website: update.sonos.com via my internet router but as you have provided no guidance whatsover on doing this I do not know if this will be sufficient.

Unless you provide a process which will avoid the inadvertent updating of my System I put you on notice now that I will hold you responsible for any damage that may be caused to my System or CR100's as a result of your forthcoming update.

Yours faithfully,
Userlevel 7
Badge +11
TJRL/F00tS0re,

I obviously think slightly differently to each of you. I am seeing the alternative potential scenario for you, in that it is still quite possible that the old CR100’s you each own, could naturally 'bite the dust' anyway due to their now ageing components and that could well happen (quite easily) in the not too distant future.

If that were to happen, I doubt you would then suddenly consider scrapping and replacing your entire Sonos system. You would most likely accept the controllers natural 'demise' due to age and start to look around for an alternative controller available within today’s market and I think you would agree to pay for the new replacement device out of your own pocket. That’s certainly what I would do too.

So natural demise of hardware due to old age is usually seen by the majority as being 'acceptable', but forced obsolescence, even though these devices are approaching their 'end of life' period, is now causing you both to think in an entirely different way. ....

I cannot speak for F00tS0re, but I can agree that Ken_Griffiths and I see things slightly differently.

Looking at the points raised:-

When one of our CR100s "bites the dust" tomorrow or whenever, I would look to get it repaired or replaced with a second hand unit. Of course neither of these options may be possible, but with 7 CR100s the loss of one at some indeterminate time in the future is not so daunting, losing the use of 7 all at the same time is bit more uncomfortable. - The best option would be for Sonos to release a CR300 :D

"I doubt you would then suddenly consider scrapping and replacing your entire Sonos system."
Well you may indeed doubt it, but that is exactly what we would do, unless there was UI we liked. At present nothing comes close (for Sonos systems).

" I think you would agree to pay for the new replacement device out of your own pocket. That’s certainly what I would do too"
Yes if there was a suitable replacement device (dedicated, non-touch screen & hard buttoned) we would be more than content to purchase them to replace each CR100 as it failed.

"So natural demise of hardware due to old age is usually seen by the majority as being 'acceptable', but forced obsolescence, even though these devices are approaching their 'end of life' period, is now causing you both to think in an entirely different way."
Not sure I agree that 13 year old CR100s "are approaching their 'end of life' period", I have Pioneer HiFi remotes from 1980s that are working just fine.
I would agree that the natural failure of electronic items is normal and acceptable provided it is not within a few months of end of the warranty! I also agree that having to replace 7 units all at the same time has triggered a decision point for us, not really thinking in "an entirely different way" more of "if we are having to junk and replace £2,500 of working kit, do we want to stay with the product, given the change of direction of the product and the behaviour of Sonos?"

So for us the decision is:-

Stay with Sonos and find some sort of replacement controller for our 7 CR100s. - Compromise

OR

1. To sell off our current Sonos kit to those who like App based controllers and accept the direction Sonos is going in.
2. Upgrade our Sonos system to something more reliable, stable and predictable with a dedicated non-touch screen & hard buttoned controller. Which is likely to be a hard wired solution such as Control4.
3. Perhaps look at legal options if at some point in the future any actions by Sonos "robs" us of the use or functionality of our property. - Better experience after initial investment and installation disruption.

In short, Ken_Griffiths raised an interesting perspective on things, but on balance I do not think the natural death of a device at a time is the same as the "all dead together" scenario we are faced with. So it follows that our response to each situation would be different. What would be the same is that we would never purchase any system (music or otherwise) we did not like the UI of. Furthermore there is no way we will accept a UI we do not like. :@

YMMV.
Userlevel 6
Badge +5
Which multi room WiFi music system allows users a choice of firmware? Only one I can think of is the defunct SqueezeBox (which never was a viable multi room system).

Couple of examples:
  • BlueSound: You can download the firmware, store it, upload it via USB stick, if needed. That's why they have USB connectors in the backs of their units.
  • Denon allows users to turn off automatic updates at the App level (though you'll be notified). Firmware downloads is also possible, presumably to be uploaded via USB stick.
  • Paradigm also features firmwares for download on their web site. Etc.
Not sure about access to older firmwares (you'd likely have to contact them) but at least you have the option to backup a working firmware. This is an option that Sonos does not give us currently, which is a shame. At any given time, the only firmware we are allowed to install within the confines of a closed ecosystem is the latest one.

I don't think it would add significantly to the code base to allow customers to choose the firmware they want to use. Hide it in an advanced menu, if necessary.
Userlevel 7
Badge +5
Apple slowing down iPhones and blaming the battery was bad, this is much worse.

Indeed - although only conspiracy theorists truly believe Apple did it to drive hardware updates, the reason they gave for doing it is technically plausible - even if you don't agree with their decision (which BTW, I don't) - and to further expand on your analogy, Apple have been open about the issue, and have backpedalled on forcing their choice on customers, and have put the choice back in the customers hands, where it should have been all along. Better still, they've more than made amends to their customers who may have been irked by the issue by offering dirt-cheap battery replacements (which I will be taking advantage of for my old iPhone 6).

So, Apple did something, - presumably with honest intentions (we must give the benefit of the doubt & assume innocent until proven guilty), when it became obvious that customers weren't happy with it, they admitted their mistake, heartily apologised for it, reversed the decision, and gave a sweetener by way of recompense... THAT is the mark of a company that really does give more than 2 shits about customer satisfaction...

Over to you SONOS..... what are you going to do? - do you give 2 shits about customer satisfaction? - time and action will tell, and we are waiting...
Userlevel 6
Badge +3
Forced Obsolescence
Has anyone reached out to Wired, Geekwire (I’m writing to Todd Bishop today), and/or Audio publications about this new paradigm where an audio equipment manufacturer can - at their total discretion - on some arbitrary date render your equipment useless? Then give you the FALSE equivalence choice that you can just block future updates including important security fixes? LG is no longer actively sending out updates to my older smart TV, yet they haven’t bricked it or the Smart Remote for that matter. This is a slippery slope folks and PLEASE, PLEASE those who don’t care about this subject and especially those who DO NOT have or have ever owned a CR100 quit posting contrarian views just to stir the pot! This topic is SAVE THE CR100 not I want to KILL the CR100… (channeling John Oliver) just stop it!

I think this link from an earlier post sums it up well –“Sonos this is a d—k move!”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac1zZo7wLo8

Sonos - Just let the CR100 die slowly from electronic failure and it is ok if you don’t support it, nor update it. You’ve done this in the past and sure, the controller may no longer support some shiny new services, but killing it just makes you look like an arrogant and uncaring management team who never understood the value of a BRAND and customer loyalty

To answer another prior post: Sound bar + Sub last year, 2 Ones 2016, and if this nonsense keeps up, not another Sonos device even it cleans may house and makes my coffee! ;-)

Please post your letters to Sonos management here and if you’ve written to the press, or posted on social media (YouTube et al), please give us a link.
Happy listening.
Userlevel 4
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this is a money grab, which is why customers are enraged.

This is, actually, a sound business decision, aimed at staying relevant in the face of ever increasing competition. Until the Echo, Sonos dominated the multi room WiFi music market. Echo turned the space on its head, and Sonos has been scrambling ever since. Continuing to support a UI that dates back to when the iPod had that clunky scroll wheel UI simply isn’t forward looking. Who in their right mind would buy a device with that UI new today?


I'd buy a device with that UI today- I still use six of them. I want a standalone device that I can leave for guests to use without worrying about them messing up the system.

Echo didn't turn the "quality music reproduction" space on its head - the sound quality of the amazon devices is awful. They are selling because they are "interesting". I was hugely disappointed with the amazon devices' sound quality but had never expected them to be an alternative to Sonos.

I buy quality goods that I expect to last. I have no time for companies who deliberately brick working equipment.

Continuing support wouldn't cost a lot- to be honest they've stopped supporitng the CR100 since they crippled the formerly-working amazon music options. I accepted that- what I don't accept is them bricking the CR100.

What are you going to do when they brick your sonos kit and tell you,"it's because we're staying relevant".
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I have just read the email about the CR100 being discontinued from April (unfortunately the email was in my SPAM folder), effectively forcing us to use the android app just when it has gone severely downhill in recent months.

I find the dangerous battery excuse to be completely bogus as batteries are freely available and changeable by any competent technician. Indeed, I already have spare batteries and a virgin/unopened CR100 as backup (neither needed yet).

I accept that Sonos may not be able to support the ever changing interfaces of external services, but please keep the dedicated CR100 controller operational, albeit with reduced function, i.e. with library and tunein radio. It is the visual and operational focus of my systems.

I personally have Sonos multiroom systems in two countries and have bought and recommended Sonos systems for families, friends and customers.

SONOS - PLEASE DON'T BETRAY MY CONFIDENCE, PATRONAGE AND EVANGELISM FOR THE SONOS PRODUCT RANGE!

JohnD


I couldn’t agree more. I still have 7 cr100’s and they all work perfect. I don’t agree with the battery argument at all.
Why can’t they just keep it alive with reduced or basic sonos functionality? We use them mainly with the kids and their friends who are over a lot , or at parties. We have no interest in voice commands. But we have a whole house full of sonos components and have been adding stuff every year. This really sucks.
Userlevel 7
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Oh wait, hang on!!!! I've just noticed this on the shop;
https://www.sonos.com/en-gb/shop/xpress-audio-keypad.html

I wonder if they've listed this as an alternative for people to use..... conveniently priced also! Hmmm


Hmm... interesting... *could* have the potential to replicate a good portion of the utility value of a CR100 - if it really does respond instantly etc.... although being screenless, doesn't replicate the "at-a-glance" confirmation that my particular zone is still set to play *my* favourite TuneIn station, rather than the wife's... so in all truth, it's still not as good a controller...

However, - I need one of these to replace *each* of my 3 CR100s, not just a derisory £100 voucher which only buys me one of those...

SONOS, if you persist in this course of action, you should do the least honourable service of 1 voucher PER CR100... - you know what kit we've got on our SONOS networks....
Userlevel 2
In protest I have cancelled Spotify as I will not listen to it on Sonos anymore and the same for Amazon Music Unlimited. When asked by these companies why I'm leaving I told them I will not listen to them anymore as I only listen to them on Sonos. and I dont agree with the way we the customer is being treated by Sonos. Target Sonos partners as they will listen to them.
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If hardly anyone purchased them after 2009 why are there still dozens on EBay?
And no-one is forcing you to read this.
If you don't like what is being said then don't read the thread! Simples!


Unfortunately for you, you need a heck of a lot more than the 200 or so posters here in order to sway Sonos to your cause. Alienating those of us who once were sympathetic and could have chosen to exert our efforts is not going to add to that 200. I for one was all in favor of a better way to accommodate those who still use the CR100 when this thread first started. That favor is very quickly turning to contempt, given the tone of this thread, not to mention the injection of CR100 moans in other threads that have nothing to do with this subject


Of course you are correct, there is very little chance of Sonos; changing their minds over Bricking the CR100s on the next update, providing support to allow users to freeze on the current OS version or bring out a new dedicated "CR300" controller.

Why?

1 Because pretty much every new user since 2009 purchased their Sonos systems on the basis of
PC/Tablet/Smartphone control and so for them there is no change.

2 The number of users that feel strongly about the loss of the CR100 is so low that Sonos do not need to worry about them. We can sell our whole Sonos systems on eBay (to subsidise whatever Sonos replacement we want) and it will not dent Sonos sales very much and may even create future demand as we all know Sonos is addictive!

3 Technically support costs for the CR100 is and will continue to high compared to the £ note value to Sonos.

4 Sonos have changed direction; Sonos Net, WiFi extending / hub capabilities and dedicated controllers are no longer the Sonos way ahead and have been dumped as USPs. We have to assume they know their market better than we do.

So lets be honest jgatie, none of your efforts that you might have chosen to exerted when you were sympatric, would have changed the above. You said that you dislike the "CR100 moans in other threads that have nothing to do with this subject" which I may well be guilty of, except that all my CR100 moans in other threads were in some way connected to each threads discussion or subject matter.

I also think it is important that new Sonos users who after more than 4 months of waiting for a simple change to way Alexa behaves on their Play One, are made aware that the current Sonos responsiveness to user feedback is slow, dismissive or below what you might expect for a premium brand.

I also think that having the CR100 issue raised in other threads and read by Sonos support staff, other users and potential new Sonos customers is a good thing. I would hate to think someone might miss the CR100 issue because all the criticism was tucked away in an obscure thread! ;)

If all these CR100 post are a bit annoying to you (and others), well the loss of the CR100 is a whole lot more annoying to the 200 hundred of us who are posting.

I still do not know what we are going to do about it, freeze on 8.4, sell up and replace with an hard wired system or just accept inferior control of our Sonos system in the future. But trust me "your contempt" is the least of my worries on the subject!! 🆒
Userlevel 6
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Ladies & Gents

Emotions are clearly running high on this thread but I feel that with 10 days to go before the order to kill is potentially sent out, we should be concentrating our efforts in to putting together a list of reasons as to why we feel support for the CR100 should continue.

A list that can be sent to Sonos before the end of the month for them to consider and hopefully respond to reasonably.

I have made a start on this list below. I will confess that whilst I have more than casually skimmed this thread, I have not read it all in detail - having joined this discussion only a week ago, 1800+ posts over 74 pages is a lot to go through....

Therefore I apologise if the list does not contain a specific reason made by a specific author but, if that's the case, please feel free to add to the list.

We need to make a strong case. If anyone has suggestions to add - or indeed remove - from this list, please post them. CR100 supporters only please....

Whilst I cannot commit to this 24 / 7, unless anyone has a better suggestion, I will maintain this list offline and update it daily from the forum posts.

I will post the updated list on this thread until such a time that we agree it's ready to be sent to Sonos.

So here goes - the list so far (in no particular order)

Reasons to maintain support for the CR100
1. We don't want our kids using tablets / smartphones to control Sonos in their bedrooms as this gives them unsupervised internet access

2. It's splashproof and robust - great for kitchen, pool, outdoor use & for the kids

3. We feel we are currently forced (but don't want) to lock down our systems from future upgrades and potentially lose our streaming services in the future as a result

4. Casual users (an example, holiday home users but also anybody who chooses not to upgrade to each and every new release) might innocently perform an upgrade in 6 months and lose their CR100s without any warning.

5. It is easier for people with certain disabilities to use over a touchscreen / PC based app

6. We have invested a lot of money in CR100s (several users citing ownership of 4, 5, 6 or more units) and still see them as an ongoing concern with plenty of life left. We do not want to re-invest in a corresponding number of new tablets (or other equivalent devices) to take over the job.

7. It is easy for guests to use. We are happy to hand over our CR100s for them to use but not our smartphones or tablets.

8. It is our preferred method of controlling our Sonos systems. We do not want to move to solely app or voice controlled methods.

9. Many of us have affixed our CR100 charging cradles to walls and buried the wires. We do not want these to become a useless ornament

10. We use the alarm clock feature

11. We accept the "aging battery" issue at our risk although many users have changed their own batteries anyway

12. We are not comfortable about disposing equipment that works perfectly

13. It is instantly available to control our systems - we don't want to have to go through the process of unlocking our device and waiting for an app to launch

14. We like the feel of hard buttons and can use it in the dark with our eyes closed.
Userlevel 7
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More thoughts on "HOW" Sonos could provide a legacy path

--Disclaimer-- at the risk of being told I am wrong, and being reminded how I "have been wrong" on this topic before, I want to suggest that unless the Self Professed Board Police can speak for Sonos to refute what I am suggesting, then go away.

one of the board cops asked the question "how" when commenting on having some sort of Legacy path created.
I will try to keep this short, but this came to me since I have had to learn as much as I did resurrecting a few ZP100s to lock them down. YES, I was working with a Bus Pirate, Yes I was replacing component level parts and watching the units boot, and forcing firmware to dead units, and yes, I fixed them.

1 Sonos already knows EXACTLY what hardware you own, by serial number, unit name and household. Do not forget this fact.
2: Sonos has one URL address that all devices go to for the upgrades, update.sonos.com
3: at this point, they have only needed to "send" to the requesting device the updated firmware in their "one sized fits all approach". so they just pump out one set of code.
I am uncertain if there is actually a specific firmware sent depending on the device VS the very same being sent, but even it its specific, this can still be managed (see number 4)
4: when the device (be it a player, or control, or bridge, Etc) all send the request along with its identifying detail.
for example, the following is submitted: (and this is in the ZR100 repair topic on this board)
URL is http://update-firmware.sonos.com/firmware/Gold/28.1-83251-v5.2-pcyakr-RC4/28.1-83040-1-1.upd?cmaj=27&cmin=2&cbld=80271&subm=3&rev=2®=1&serial=XXXXXXXX&sonosid=XXXXXXXX&householdid=XXXXXXXXXX

notice the bold text, Sonos know exactly which device they are sending firmware to and hey send it back with a name that includes that very detail.

this is all "behind the scenes" programming and management.
if an "option" to stay in a "legacy" or "V1" code were given, and we had the ability to select the option in our Sonos Profile, then when Your unit would send a request for the update THEIR system could lookup the account based on unit serial number, determine the option to remain on legacy, and then send the proper code.

to further this, the proper code versions could ALWAYS be the same only one ends in V1 or V2 or L, (whatever designation they want), the point it, the player/device will always load the latest code and even if you want to swap a unit from V1 to V2 or the other way around they COULD send the code with a firmware version number that will look to unit like its the "next generation" and boot that code. (a downgrade option should be possible)
In my opinion this could be done based on what I have seen and how these units boot their firmware. But Sonos must implement it and it would mean they must support a legacy path but they would not be "adding" any new features or further developing it, they would just be keeping it operational and updated for APIs and security certificates.

as far as the Apps are concerned, they would have to create a V1 and V2 and should even be able to have the App inform the user if they opened the wrong one and need to change apps based on Option selected in your Sonos account. (this could keep the Apps from updating improperly or even allow a user the ability to have both apps on the same device to service 2 different households if they are not on the same "Option".

I had to share my thoughts on this,
and again, before someone feels the need to tell me I am wrong, or Sonos would never do it, or I am ignorant or just plain stupid, perhaps you should consider how you will look if you do.

Tossing thoughts out there and perhaps Sonos has someone watching and can think this thru. I believe this is possible, Sonos needs to make it happen.

Its not April yet, there is still time.....


Just a thought... but isn’t this pretty much exactly how the beta programme works?

Now, I will admit, I’m not a member of the beta programme, so I may well be wrong in some of my assumptions, and if so, perhaps someone who is on the beta programme could chime in with corrections...

But, it’s my understanding that as a sonos user, we can elect to join the beta programme, and perhaps subject to approval by Sonos rather than a completely open opt-in arrangement, once enrolled in the beta programme, you receive a different firmware package from non-beta members?...

Presumably this is managed by some flag that is set in the account properties once accepted onto the programme? And thereafter, the firmware update process is managed differently based on said flag?

As I said, I don’t know the precise mechanism as I’m not a beta member, but it just struck me that Sonos presumably must already have a tried & tested method to apply different firmware to selected users based on an option in their profile?

That being so, how hard could it be to just leverage that existing mechanism and provide 1 more “branch”?

It’s my understanding that beta users don’t need to use a different version of the app...

Thoughts?
Userlevel 2
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Unfortunately your old laptop isn't reliant on other services/devices to work though, it can stand on its own. The CR100 is dependent on the Sonos system itself, and considering the underlying software of the system undergoes changes over the years, the support for the CR100 (and subsequently the CR200) will be harder and harder to manage.

Well, actually it is, for the most part. It can still access the web and much, much more. If the web were lost that would be different, but I have no reason to expect that - unless Mr Putin arranges it.

The Sonos system is entirely capable of further development while maintaining a long-term compatibility with earlier generations. If the management of that company have been told otherwise, then they need to revisit the matter urgently. This is a lazy, sloppy approach to 'moving on' that cannot, and should not, be excused.
Userlevel 7
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I have in the last few minutes, reached out to the BBC Click team via their FB page, and to engadget via their website, to alert them to this story, and I've given them the links back to this discussion thread. I'm going to continue to check for what other media outlets I might be able to try to garner interest with.... Please might I suggest that you all do the same... - contact your tech news outlet of choice...

It worked for Star Trek!! 🆒