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SAVE THE CR100


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Paul Gordon wrote:


Hey Melvimbe!

I'm not entirely sure what point your making... - "don't need a CR100 to manage a local library"... - what's the relevance here? - what I'm questioning is the sagacity of relying on an "uninvested" 3rd party (in this case Amazon, but the principal applies to other scenarios) as a control mechanism for one or more of our "systems" - in this case sonos, but again the principal applies generally...



I assumed your argument about 3rd party control included 3rd party sources of audio. And really, it should. In both cases, your system would not function if the 3rd party suddenly became unavailable for whatever reason. The odds of Alexa going away are probably around the same as Amazon music services going away. Whether that be permanent or temporary loss of service.

Paul Gordon wrote:


I'm not "making an argument" for or against anything (at least I don't intend to be) - as I stated in the above paragraph, I'm suggesting that the recent outage should at least give pause for thought about how wise it is to introduce that dependency, - even if it is only a partial dependency, since as was correctly stated, when Amazon has an outage & Alexa control is unavailable, there is of course still the option to use the app... I never suggested otherwise.



Your statement above is what's generally thought of as 'making an argument'. Rewording it as 'suggesting', does change what it is. Regardless, the argument/suggestion doesn't make sense. No one is fully dependent on Alexa for control as it's not even possible with Sonos. You can't setup Sonos without using the app. You can use voice control for some features if you wish, but there will always be the app to control the system as a backup. That's not dependency or even partial dependency. Yes, you acknowledged that the app is always an option, but the negates the possibility that anyone is dependent on voice control.

Paul Gordon wrote:


However, that said, if you look back through the myriad posts so far, there are more than a few where individuals have offered up Alexa control as the solution to pretty much every scenario contrived by anyone lamenting the loss of utility caused by no more CR100 control option... some posts give the impression that the poster's opinion is that Alexa control is (or is going to be) the be all & end all of Sonos control options.



And for some people it will. And again, there is the app for when it doesn't. For the cases when voice control isn't available, it is the backup option.

Paul Gordon wrote:


Some people hate the app with a passion... I'm not quite in that camp, although about this time last year when there was a big app overhaul, I definitely hated what they did with it the first time I picked up my iPad after that update... I stared at the UI for some considerable time before I could even figure out WTF was going on and where the various elements were, I took quite some time to adjust to the new UX, during which time I cussed & cursed & generally took 5 times longer to accomplish any given Sonos control task than I had before that update. Even today, I still think it's a huge backward step compared to the "old" app..

Other apps are available of course... (I have switched to SonoPhone/SonoPad)



ok.


Paul Gordon wrote:


I think you're perhaps running away with the comparison a tad... I'm not talking about internet outages (pretty rare for me I'm happy to say), and certainly not natural disasters like hurricanes (even more rare for me). Of course those are more important than audio control, - that goes without saying... - which is why i didn't say it... :-)



Your point was that voice control isn't going to be 100% available. My counter point was...so what. It's currently way more reliable than other services Sonos depends on, like an interent connection and power. Yes, it's possible that Alexa control could disappear one day. That doesn't mean that Sonos needs to have their own controller in order to be prepared for that highly unlikely scenario, especially when the app is already a backup.

Paul Gordon wrote:


We all know that Amazon & Alexa more or less own the smart voice assistant market at the moment.... things can change...
For as long as it suits Amazon to be the leader in this space, then I imagine it's pretty unlikely they'll go away any time soon. But make no mistake, Amazon are in this space because it suits their business model; to sell more amazon products & services.. if at any time in the future the world changes and it no longer suits them, who can say with sincerity that they think Amazon will continue providing the back end services required to support Alexa "out of the goodness of their hearts"?
At any time of their choosing, Amazon could decide to either start charging for the service, or to discontinue it entirely, thereby leaving 3rd parties who've bet their shirt on Alexa integration up sh*t creek without a paddle...



Yes they could. And Amazon would suffer a lot of backlash if they made such a decision. Likely receiving a ton of boycotts and such, losing a lot of business to Google and other competitors. But yes, it's in the realm of possibility. Still doesn't mean Sonos needs to have their own controller to be prepared for that end of the world type scenario.

Paul Gordon wrote:


Sensibly, Sonos have said they plan to be voice assistant agnostic, and will work with other services (AFAIK, only Google has been mooted thus far) - but that's not here yet (is it?). And of course the same caveat applies to A. N. Other voice assistant as it does to Alexa... - these companies aren't doing it "for us"...

None of the voice assistant services are "invested" in the products & companies that use them, by which I mean if Sonos went away tomorrow, do Amazon care? - do Amazon lose out in any way? - is the same true of the reverse situation?



Amazon wouldn't suffer much from Sonos going away, true. However, if they decided to pull support for Sonos speakers, they again get a backlash from customers. They aren't doing it for us, but they definitely need loyal customers in order to continue doing business.

Paul Gordon wrote:


Don't take this as me suggesting that Amazon, or Google, or anyone else providing a smart assistant platform are going to disappear any time soon, but to imagine that it could never happen is at best overoptimistic... - I remember a time when Novell appeared unassailable in the Network OS marketplace, and at the time it was "unthinkable" that it wouldn't always be so... - I'll wager there are people reading this now thinking "who the hell are Novell?"...



Of course it is the final solution forever and ever, amen. No product or service ever is. CDs were a great solution, for their time, and I don't regret investing time and money into them. That doesn't mean I'm going to stick with using CDs forever. Likewise, I'm not going to regret investing in Sonos just because one day, there is a better solution that comes along. Sure, I want Sonos to last a good long time, and it's a good bet that it will.

Paul Gordon wrote:


And even if one were to dismiss the suggestion that the services that Sonos et al rely upon for voice control might disappear, as wildly fanciful, there is still the potential for temporary service disruptions, which in the case of Amazon I believe has occurred a few times, - if memory serves, I think probably twice in the last year, the latest being just the other day. My point of caution is that we cannot possibly predict, mitigate against, or in any way prevent more such occurrences, and neither can Sonos... - they have no control over, nor influence upon the reliability of a service that their products are offering as a central feature...

That's all.. :D



Unless you're making a music player that doesn't require power, maybe has a hand crank on it, you're going to rely on 3rd party power services for your product to work. You aren't going to get 100% uptime. If that's not acceptable you shouldn't buy electronics at all. Same goes for using voice control services. If you must have 100% uptime, don't use it.
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Paul Gordon wrote:

Sigh... it seems we've reached the point now where even thoughtful, polite, considered commentary on an aspect that is relevant to the general bearing of the discussion is thoughtlessly dismissed and insulted. I think I really have had enough of this. I'm going back to sitting in the hot sun, with a cold beer in one hand and a CR100 in the other to chill out with some tunes.



I've done the same thing often, just replaced the CR100 with my phone or a echo dot w/battery pack on the table next to me. :D

Seriously though, I've respond to your suggestions. I just don't think they hold much weight.
I just ordered a new battery for my CR100 remote and installed it. Then I was very happy that the controller worked again!
Installed the update it was bugging me about and then found out it was all a waste of time and money!
So disappointed!!
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So is this the thread to save the PLAY3 too? Am in the right place?
Can any one tell me how long I have until SONOS bricks my PLAY3??? I already have two CR100s that are in my museum glass show case just can bring my self to let them go. ... Hmmm Bluesound is looking better and better.
How long before the Play:3 is discontinued / superseded? No idea. Time from being discontinued to being 'bricked'? Let's go with the CR100 as an example, shall we, and guess around 10 years?
Tango wrote:

So is this the thread to save the PLAY3 too? Am in the right place?
Can any one tell me how long I have until SONOS bricks my PLAY3??? I already have two CR100s that are in my museum glass show case just can bring my self to let them go. ... Hmmm Bluesound is looking better and better.


I'll tell you when Sonos is up to brick my two Play:5s, 1st Gen. You can then estimate how long till the time's up for your Play:3s, presuming, they are still in working condition by that time.
I would start worrying about the devices that are no longer being produced; CR200, ZP80/100, and the Play:5 1st gen, before I'd worry about them retiring something that is still being sold.

In other words, like a lot of the speculation in the thread, this one is just FUD.
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Tango wrote:

So is this the thread to save the PLAY3 too? Am in the right place?
Can any one tell me how long I have until SONOS bricks my PLAY3??? I already have two CR100s that are in my museum glass show case just can bring my self to let them go. ... Hmmm Bluesound is looking better and better.



Your frustration over the CR100 is understandable, but your conclusion that it means that your PLAY:3 will be disabled any time soon is not rational. It hasn't even been removed from the website yet and is still available for retail in places. Even if you were assume the PLAY:3 will follow the same path as the CR100, maybe even sped up due to recent IPO, that still would mean the PLAY:3 would have many years left.
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melvimbe wrote:
Your frustration over the CR100 is understandable, but your conclusion that it means that your PLAY:3 will be disabled any time soon is not rational. It hasn't even been removed from the website yet and is still available for retail in places. Even if you were assume the PLAY:3 will follow the same path as the CR100, maybe even sped up due to recent IPO, that still would mean the PLAY:3 would have many years left.[/quote]\

Spoiler alert: Just got the Email this week directly from SONOS themselves stating they will cease production of the PLAY3

An Important Update on Play:3
Play:3 End of Sale.
The Play:3 has been a valuable part of our line-up and will continue to bring music to homes for years to come. But, as we’ve introduced new listening experiences to the Sonos Home Sound System, it’s time to bring the sale of the Play:3 to an end.


So you can add the PLAY3 to the list of potential sonos bricks
Tango wrote:


Spoiler alert: Just got the Email this week directly from SONOS themselves stating they will cease production of the PLAY3

An Important Update on Play:3
Play:3 End of Sale.
The Play:3 has been a valuable part of our line-up and will continue to bring music to homes for years to come. But, as we’ve introduced new listening experiences to the Sonos Home Sound System, it’s time to bring the sale of the Play:3 to an end.


So you can add the PLAY3 to the list of potential sonos bricks



Guess you missed this part: will continue to bring music to homes for years to come
@Tango. Please could you clarify. Do you really not understand the difference between 'discontinued' and 'obsolete', or are you just trying to stir? It must be one or the other.
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Discontinued but sill supported, but i no longer trust Sonos to be ethical as Sonos Australia has been bought out by Sonos US and many of the assurances Sonos AU made to dealers have been rescinded.
Perhaps then you would be right, given that belief, to get out of the Sonos ecosystem and switch to Bluesound. Personally I trust Sonos to seek to maximise its profits, which is what I trust every company to do. I don't happen to believe they did anything unethical over the CR100 but I respect your right to think otherwise. It seems to me so unlikely that it will be in Sonos' own commercial interests to 'brick' the Play:3 for the foreseeable future I certainly won't be losing any sleep over it. Although I don't actually own a Play:3.... :)

Edit: just recalled I do own a Play:3, but lent it to a friend. Still not worried.
Sonos discontinued the sale of ZP80 donkey's years ago. Mysteriously my four units "continue to bring music to [my] home"...
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John B wrote:

Perhaps then you would be right, given that belief, to get out of the Sonos ecosystem and switch to Bluesound.



I haven't done a ton of research on this and could be way off, but I don't think Bluesound has been selling products near as long as Sonos has. They don't have the track record. I suppose you can take the attitude that you'd rather go with a company where you don't know the product lifecyle vs a company that you do, but clearly the risk is greater with Bluesound.
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Just gone to my iPhone 7 Sonos app and it presents a page that insists I update my app - I can't get past it!
That means knobbling the CR100s - anyone else find this? I thought we were allowed to run Sonos without enforced updates???
Alan_93 wrote:

Just gone to my iPhone 7 Sonos app and it presents a page that insists I update my app - I can't get past it!
That means knobbling the CR100s - anyone else find this? I thought we were allowed to run Sonos without enforced updates???



You inadvertently updated the Sonos app on your iPhone. You should have turned off auto updates. You either have to update the whole system, or find a repository that will allow you to download the old app (note, this is not supported in any way by Sonos). Search this thread for ways some people have managed to get an old version of the app.
New poster with the same problem as Alan_93. I cant use the sonos app on my phone at all. It is forcing me to update. From what I understand that update will brick my cr100s. I'm also trying to add used play 5 I purchased to my system and it is trying to force an update on my laptop. I assume that will also brick my cr100s. Today I learn that my play 3 will be bricked soon and my play 5s as well eventually.. I'm very pissed at sonos.
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longtimeuser wrote:

Today I learn that my play 3 will be bricked soon and my play 5s as well eventually.. I'm very pissed at sonos.



Not sure how you learned that, but Sonos has said nothing of the sort. The play:3 is being discontinued for sale, yes, but that is far from being bricked. If you're going to use the CR100 as a template, than you can expect the play:3 to be operating for anther 10 years or so.
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jgatie wrote:

Alan_93 wrote:

Just gone to my iPhone 7 Sonos app and it presents a page that insists I update my app - I can't get past it!
That means knobbling the CR100s - anyone else find this? I thought we were allowed to run Sonos without enforced updates???



You inadvertently updated the Sonos app on your iPhone. You should have turned off auto updates. You either have to update the whole system, or find a repository that will allow you to download the old app (note, this is not supported in any way by Sonos). Search this thread for ways some people have managed to get an old version of the app.



Nope, I didn't - I have been scrupulous about not doing so - I simply selected the app on the iPhone and was presented with "we have to update this controller" - this is new behaviour.
Alan_93 wrote:



Nope, I didn't - I have been scrupulous about not doing so - I simply selected the app on the iPhone and was presented with "we have to update this controller" - this is new behaviour.



Go to Settings->About My Sonos System and check the versions of your app and hardware. If there is a mismatch, then someone has updated one or the other. Otherwise, as long as you have turned off Update Alerts, you will not see that message.
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I gave in and binned my CR100 and did the software update so no going back for me! I’m very glad I’ve still got my CR200 because that’s the only controller I’ve got that I can rely on 100% at the moment. Currently the Android and ios apps in my scenario are not reliable until the problem with them are fixed.
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jgatie wrote:

Alan_93 wrote:



Nope, I didn't - I have been scrupulous about not doing so - I simply selected the app on the iPhone and was presented with "we have to update this controller" - this is new behaviour.



Go to Settings->About My Sonos System and check the versions of your app and hardware. If there is a mismatch, then someone has updated one or the other. Otherwise, as long as you have turned off Update Alerts, you will not see that message.



My PC, iPad and Android apps and hardware are all at version 8.4
My iPhone has been set not to do auto updates for months since I first contributed to this thread.
The controller on the iPhone is showing 9.0 and is presenting the message I can't get past without updating.
No-one else has access to my phone i.e. my wife is tech agnostic.
I certainly didn't update manually - looks like I need to figure how to go back or not use the iPhone..........
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Rather than trawl back through all these pages, anyone know if there is a way to revert to 8.4 from 9.0 on Apple IOS?
I did try deleting the app and re-installing from "purchased apps" but that just refers you to v9.0
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Actually I just found Sonophone for the iPhone - it is brilliant, intuitive and at £2.99 well worth not having to worry about getting updates which would nobble the CR100s. Thanks for nothing Sonos, my opinion of you went from ecstatic when I bought the system 10 years ago to the pits right now.

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