Answered

S2 possible on S1 hardware, if Sonos enable it?


Userlevel 3
Badge

I heard from a friend of mine that technically, S2 is possible on S1 hardware - and all it takes is for Sonos to enable it on your system (which seemingly they can do remotely, presumably though your log on account).

I’m told that if you have a big enough setup (ie. you’ve spent enough money with them) and make enough of a fuss, they’ll enable S2 for you. I have no idea if there are limitations once done, but S2 isn’t wildly different from S1 anyway, so probably not.

Anyone know any more about this?

icon

Best answer by melvimbe 6 October 2021, 15:20

View original

This topic has been closed for further comments. You can use the search bar to find a similar topic, or create a new one by clicking Create Topic at the top of the page.

38 replies

It's a completely meaningless percentage to calculate anyway,, given that threads may have tens, hundreds or even thousands of posts, so maybe it doesn't matter to be out by a factor of 100?

 

Of course it is.  But it's all the poster's got, given their utter ignorance as to how Sonos works. 

It's a completely meaningless percentage to calculate anyway,, given that threads may have tens, hundreds or even thousands of posts, so maybe it doesn't matter to be out by a factor of 100?

So, may not have been born yesterday, but the math skills are pretty green.

 28757 comments vs 1155 Solved, that’s .03% Solved.

 

Percentages and decimal points can be so tricky, can't they?

@Kumar . I think you are mistaking @ITJAG  for someone who cares whether his comments are true or logical.

Agreed, just my OCD kicking in...

 jgatie - 22,677 comments vs 1421 solved...Seems like the trolls are not me, but you!  Or maybe ratty, similar stats - 28757 comments vs 1155 Solved, that’s .03% Solved.

 

This isn't apple to apples, so the percentages are completely defective/misleading. Many of our posts do not address problems calling for solutions.

@Kumar . I think you are mistaking @ITJAG  for someone who cares whether his comments are true or logical.

DFTT

 jgatie - 22,677 comments vs 1421 solved...Seems like the trolls are not me, but you!  Or maybe ratty, similar stats - 28757 comments vs 1155 Solved, that’s .03% Solved.

 

This isn't apple to apples, so the percentages are completely defective/misleading. Many of our posts do not address problems calling for solutions.

Not able to refute the facts, yet still here blustering. There's only one keyboard warrior in this thread, and it ain't the guys with the large post count.

Soo.… none of you KB warrior’s want to buy me new S2 gear to replace my prematurely EOL S1 Gear..……...Crickets.  Thought so.  jgatie - 22,677 comments vs 1421 solved...Seems like the trolls are not me, but you!  Or maybe ratty, similar stats - 28757 comments vs 1155 Solved, that’s .03% Solved.

 Seems like you folk like to pick on the everybody who is not on UR page!

 

Its one thing to EOL a Product that’s actually EOL.  But the product still works with S1, so why not with S2 - One word   #$MONEY$

 

 

 

You can all defend the choice of a Company to EOL its product WELL before its EOL.

Thats fine.

Still Doesn’t change the fact that i have to throw away 80% of my current system to keep adding to it!

You may think its time to accept it, but i do not…...would you like pay for S2 compliant devices for me?

 

So now stating objective facts about how the system actually works is “defending the choice”?  How about you disprove the facts we stated instead of hurling insults.  If you have objective proof that the app handles all functions, and the players are merely dumb boxes, I’d love to hear it.  Until then, keep your insults and accusations to yourself.  

This was covered in laborious detail nearly 2 years ago when the S1/S2 split was first announced.

(56 pages)

(171 pages)

To try and re-open those arguments IMHO verges on trolling.

 

Users are free to split their systems into S1 and S2 if they choose. There are support articles for all this. S1 continues to be maintained.

You can all defend the choice of a Company to EOL its product WELL before its EOL.

Thats fine.

Still Doesn’t change the fact that i have to throw away 80% of my current system to keep adding to it!

You may think its time to accept it, but i do not…...would you like pay for S2 compliant devices for me?

Userlevel 7
Badge +18

Its marketing and nothing more…. not enough CPU or memory?  S2 does not run on the speaker, only firmware. 

They could have wrote a new APP that’s backwards compatible, I wasn’t born yesterday.

 

The older speakers have limited amounts of memory. The phone running the app does not have the same limitation. Sure, the app could (theoretically) be written. The app controller could then send play instructions to the device. But what when your phone is running a different app? Music stops cos the app terminates? Run in background mode so data streaming risks becoming patchy? When someone else in the household fires up the app on their phone, how does their controller know what yours is doing? Does your stream get terminated?
 

I think it’s time to accept the S1/S2 situation once and for all.  

Its marketing and nothing more…. not enough CPU or memory?  S2 does not run on the speaker, only firmware.  Someone made a poor decision and here we sit.  Thousands in gear that’s EOL due to some pricks marketing decision.  It would be different if SONOS was actually doing a good trade in program, but the $$$ off new to upgrade sucks!

They could have wrote a new APP that’s backwards compatible, I wasn’t born yesterday.

Now my new Roam is just BT…..

 

The app is a controller, that is all.  It has nothing to do except issue control commands.  90% of all functionality is done by the firmware on the players themselves.  This includes, searching, fetching, and playing music, setting up and accessing accounts and services, storing and editing playlists, maintaining the queue, everything in fact, except displaying the content and issuing play/stop/FF/REW commands.  

Don’t believe me?  Set up a queue of music.  Then exit the controller app.  Turn off your phone/tablet.  Toss it out the window or in the toilet.  Smash it with a hammer.  Does the music still play?  Of course it does, because as I said, the app is just a controller.

And when it comes to understanding how Sonos actually works, you do seem to have been born yesterday.

S2 does not run on the speaker, only firmware. 

What?  You appear to have no understanding whatsoever of how Sonos works, which does rather undermine your argument.

The firmware is S2, or S1. The only gear that is EOL is the 30 pin dock for iOS devices, and the CR100 remote controller. All other devices continue to run as they always have. 
 

You may not have been born yesterday, but you don’t seem to understand memory or CPU restrictions when talking about the firmware that operates the computer in each Sonos device. 

Its marketing and nothing more…. not enough CPU or memory?  S2 does not run on the speaker, only firmware.  Someone made a poor decision and here we sit.  Thousands in gear that’s EOL due to some pricks marketing decision.  It would be different if SONOS was actually doing a good trade in program, but the $$$ off new to upgrade sucks!

They could have wrote a new APP that’s backwards compatible, I wasn’t born yesterday.

Now my new Roam is just BT…..

Seems to me that unless the OP does a hands on test of the referred system, and comes back with any revelations, there is nothing more to be said here.

Thanks all for your ideas. It is of course entirely possible that the story got confused from person to person. If I ever get a proper look at the system in question, I should hopefully be able to put that one to bed.

 

 

You’re the only one who still has any doubt about this.

 

It’s also possible the original install was altered in some way such that S2 became possible without any special intervention. However, I doubt that to be true - anyone with any amount of Sonos, bought over several years has a few old devices and a few new ones - upgrades of several devices, even with the trade-in deals are likely to be expensive - that’s something you’d imagine the home owner would remember - and would unlikely be twisted into “they did it for free”.

 

 

No, it’s not possible.  There was no special install that was done before S2 existed that somehow made the devices work on S2.  That’s like saying that it’s possible that 1980s computers could somehow read blueray disks by chance.

 

It is also possible it’s a split S1/S2 system - although again, I suspect this is unlikely. That’s not something you’d do by accident, nor does it leave your system able to play music in every room while you make breakfast (unless you’re very lucky to be able to shuffle devices around just-so). Again, it feels like this is unlikely to have been misunderstood.

 

 

You could have misunderstood what was told to you.  Splits can make sense especially for larger installs, depending on how you want to use the system. 

 

As for the question of “why would Sonos do this?” - well, that’s of course anyone’s guess.

 

 

It’s not a matter of guessing, it’s a matter of using the facts we know to logically conclude that there is no logical reason for Sonos to provide some sort of special version of S2 that works on legacy devices for a secret group of customers.

 

 

It’s been suggested that they could have made a version of their software which would naturally “downgrade” on older hardware. Evidently they chose not to do this, and by “cutting S1 loose” somewhat, they’ve disenfranchised some customers (apparently none reading this though).

 

 

You are the only one that’s made that suggestion.

 

 

I don’t know if such a customer would have any legal claim against Sonos, but if they did, then it seems entirely feasible for Sonos to “fiddle” with an install so that it says it’s S2, but perhaps only operates with S1 features or some such. Since Sonos Support have given us an unequivocal “no” on the subject, if such a thing were to have taken place, it would certainly seem to be an “outlier”.

 

 

No.  It’s nonsense.  Sonos has no legal obligation to continually provide software updates and new products to S1 customers indefinitely.  It’s been well over a year now.  Again, if Sonos had a concern about losing some existing customers over this, they would providde trade in discounts, which they have for all, or free replacements to special customers.  The cost of the replacements would surely be much cheaper than create a special secret S1/S2 hybrid version of Sonos...not to mentioning giving these customers all the benefits of S2.

 

 

Userlevel 3
Badge

Thanks all for your ideas. It is of course entirely possible that the story got confused from person to person. If I ever get a proper look at the system in question, I should hopefully be able to put that one to bed.

It’s also possible the original install was altered in some way such that S2 became possible without any special intervention. However, I doubt that to be true - anyone with any amount of Sonos, bought over several years has a few old devices and a few new ones - upgrades of several devices, even with the trade-in deals are likely to be expensive - that’s something you’d imagine the home owner would remember - and would unlikely be twisted into “they did it for free”.

It is also possible it’s a split S1/S2 system - although again, I suspect this is unlikely. That’s not something you’d do by accident, nor does it leave your system able to play music in every room while you make breakfast (unless you’re very lucky to be able to shuffle devices around just-so). Again, it feels like this is unlikely to have been misunderstood.

As for the question of “why would Sonos do this?” - well, that’s of course anyone’s guess. It’s been suggested that they could have made a version of their software which would naturally “downgrade” on older hardware. Evidently they chose not to do this, and by “cutting S1 loose” somewhat, they’ve disenfranchised some customers (apparently none reading this though). I don’t know if such a customer would have any legal claim against Sonos, but if they did, then it seems entirely feasible for Sonos to “fiddle” with an install so that it says it’s S2, but perhaps only operates with S1 features or some such. Since Sonos Support have given us an unequivocal “no” on the subject, if such a thing were to have taken place, it would certainly seem to be an “outlier”.

Lastly, for whomever it was asking for names, well, I heard it from Derek, and he was talking about Tim. Both dads at my kids school. I’m not sure how that helps, but there you go.

As I say, thanks all for your inputs - it’s been interesting. I’ll see if I can substantiate anything I asked about and report back.

I’m looking forward to an opportunity to see for myself, and ideally find out what is and is not possible with it.

This is the best way for you to get your theory tested. Hopefully you will report the results here, either way!

Most likely there is a misinterpretation of the “Is this process reversible?” paragraph.

I suspect that, if said noisy customer raised a stink with Sonos, Sonos simply explained the benefits of the trade-up scheme. A single legacy product earns a 30% discount off any Sonos product including ‘sets’ . It doesn’t take a lot of maths to figure out that the discount off a ‘set’ could easily exceed the entire original purchase price of the legacy unit. Plus you get to keep or sell the functional legacy unit.

As for an “unsubstantiated rumour” - I heard it from someone I trust, who presumably was talking about someone they trust. Whilst I wouldn’t say it has “no provenance”, I can’t verify it, that’s true - hence I came here, and asked the question. I was only asking, I wasn’t looking to start some sort of flamewar or even to dredge up the whole S1/S2 debacle all over again.

 

It sounds like you’re only willing to listen to answers that concur with the rumor you’ve heard. 

 

Besides the whole hardware limitation issue that invalidates your theory….why would Sonos even do this if it were possible?  So you have a big customer, someone with the max number of speakers you can have, which is 32.  Say that half of them are legacy, only capable of S1.  If Sonos was really concerned about losing this customer, and the influence they provide, wouldn’t be a lot cheaper to just replace his speakers at cost or for free?  Making some weird exception and allowing legacy speakers on S2 would be a nightmare for Sonos.  If word gets out they did this, they have a TON of upset customers.  Even if it remains a secret, they would have to test each version of S2 with these legacy speakers to make sure nothing breaks….just for this single or very few customers.  That’s going to cost a lot more that just replacing his speakers with S2 compatible ones.