Hello. My name is Ben Smith and I head up Product Management for Experience, Software, and Developer Programs at Sonos.
I wanted to get more feedback from you all on your expectations for Shuffling tracks in your queue. I have reviewed the feedback on ask.sonos.com and received e-mails from a few of you (via our CEO John MacFarlane), but I wanted to get a better sense from those of you who use Shuffle, how your really want it to work.
When you select shuffle what do you want to happen? What don't you want to happen?
Thanks!
Ben
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Userlevel 7
+22
But then I suppose that's what it's all about at Sonos, don't listen to customers and when they moan give standard answers and do some design tweaks. Afterall, design is way more important then functionality.
Sorry for this rant people, I guess I'm a bit frustrated. Anyway, since all my music sits on a ReadyNAS I'm going to figure out if there's anotherway of playing it through my Sonos speakers, randomly of course.
In the mean time I scrapped my plans for a Sub and two Play 3's for DD 5.1, because it's surrogate anyway and I don't want yet another piece of equipment like a switch to control in between. No new Sonos hardware anymore. Disappointed in this company, that's what me is like.
The songs have to be in queue to shuffle. All songs in the queue (you have to add whole playlist to the queue) will shuffle.
So on a related note, how do you have the alarms come on and start playing the queue where you left off?
If I have it setup to play music from one of the Sonos playlists (ie: saved queue) it reloads the music and thus I hear the same songs again day after day again despite the fact that the shuffle seems to be fixed in 5.4. YAY for that!!
If I have it setup to play music from one of the Sonos playlists (ie: saved queue) it reloads the music and thus I hear the same songs again day after day again despite the fact that the shuffle seems to be fixed in 5.4. YAY for that!!
Userlevel 7
+22
There is not a way to shuffle a playlist being automatically started. True. That would be something you could post as an idea.
The alarm settings have a shuffle option when alarming a playlist. I have my huge playlists load daily and finally don't get song repeats!
Userlevel 7
+22
Didn't realize that. Obviously previous poster hasn't looked either. Thanks James!
Yes I know it has the shuffle. I have been using that in the alarms for years. The issue is that if Monday night my queue is on song #125 then Tuesday morning when the alarm comes in it does not start (resume) there. That is what I was asking. Is there a way to just have the alarm start playing where it left off?
Userlevel 7
+22
Sounds like new shuffle only
Huh? Shuffle only?
Userlevel 7
+22
New shuffle in alarm no picking up where left off on a previous shuffle.
That was my question. How do we add a request for that? Just to have the alarm play whatever was last playing and not reload the queue.
Userlevel 7
+22
Create a new thread as idea on this forum.
So why can't there be a persistent shuffle option, so anytime you open a new playlist it automatically shuffles the playlist when you begin playing it, like so many other apps? The manual shuffle each and every time seems to just lead to a poor user experience.
As a new user, it just seems like it wasn't well thought out when it was built, not very intuitive and buried. Should just been a button on the front level of the controller app, either as an overlay on the album art or right below it in the < < = > >section. When you click on shuffle button it would just shuffle anything that was in that list in the background automatically. Seems to be a recurring suggestion though.
As a new user, it just seems like it wasn't well thought out when it was built, not very intuitive and buried. Should just been a button on the front level of the controller app, either as an overlay on the album art or right below it in the < < = > >section. When you click on shuffle button it would just shuffle anything that was in that list in the background automatically. Seems to be a recurring suggestion though.
It is persistent. Shuffle remains ON until the user disables it.
All playback options (Shuffle, Repeat, Crossfade) are also reset when the unit is rebooted. So if you're in the habit of routinely turning the Player off at the wall (a bad idea in view of reduced product life) that would disable Shuffle each time.
Userlevel 2
Please restore the queue list order during shuffle play.
While I can see some value in seeing the order of the shuffle, I MUCH prefer to see the queue in the order I have entered it.
Generally, if I am playing a shuffle, I am not watching the queue. When I am watching the queue, I frequently change the next song in the order based on my mood.
This is not the first time that a long-available and very useful feature was simply discarded for an opposite effect/result. But I am getting annoyed enough to start commenting...
While I can see some value in seeing the order of the shuffle, I MUCH prefer to see the queue in the order I have entered it.
Generally, if I am playing a shuffle, I am not watching the queue. When I am watching the queue, I frequently change the next song in the order based on my mood.
This is not the first time that a long-available and very useful feature was simply discarded for an opposite effect/result. But I am getting annoyed enough to start commenting...
Userlevel 2
BTW, I am pleased to see Sonos seeking feedback. Thanks for that.
If on shuffle mode and I select new playlists to replace the current cue, stop playing a track from the first play list each time. Load 1 at random and play a track from it, then go back to adding the rest of the playlists.
Shuffle mode seems to skip huge chunks of my playlists that I never hear. I generally load up to close to 32k tracks, 1 playlist per band.
Shuffle mode seems to skip huge chunks of my playlists that I never hear. I generally load up to close to 32k tracks, 1 playlist per band.
I want shuffle to more or less provide a random selection. What I don't want is something that just happened with one of my playlists with 150 songs across probably 12 CDs. Less than 10 songs in I get four in a row off of the same CD. A while later I got a repeat, but looking back at the already played list could not see the first instance. Also the count seemed low so maybe the play counter got reset which might relate to why the repeat occurred.
Listening in the past I have been unhappy with what I consider "lumpiness" in the shuffle content for lack of a better word.
Listening in the past I have been unhappy with what I consider "lumpiness" in the shuffle content for lack of a better word.
Userlevel 2
+7
As I originally stated, I would like randomness "more or less". I'm not looking for mathematically strict randomness. My iPod delivers pretty decent results. Some double shots but not nearly the lumpiness on CDs that I see with Sonos. The only other example I have to work with is the shuffle in my C300 Mercedes. It also does not have as much lumpiness.
I agree, a random order would be best and "remembering" it's place in the queue from when last used. I have noticed that on "random shuffle" a few tracks get picked on lots more than others, and sometimes, the order of two tracks is the same. I don't expect to hear the same track each day in a playlist of around 3500 tracks but in the last three days, I have heard the same two tracks back to back. That doesn't "feel" random.
As an ex-programmer, I understand how difficult it can be to get a decent random number. Is the seed always the same that causes similar tracks to be selected? Does the calculation give an even spread over the whole set? (e.g. does it favour the centre of the range of track numbers) Or could tracks be marked on last play date and skipped if they were played within the last x hours/days to improve the random "feel".?
It's not just Sonos that does this, the MP3 player in both our cars do much the same and seem to favour some tracks in the set, even when there is a large set to choose from. So it's a common issue with "random" numbers generated by programmers.
Or is it my fault for storing tracks in folders? A quick look shows that one track that plays regularly to the exclusion of others is 4 deep in the file structure.
As an ex-programmer, I understand how difficult it can be to get a decent random number. Is the seed always the same that causes similar tracks to be selected? Does the calculation give an even spread over the whole set? (e.g. does it favour the centre of the range of track numbers) Or could tracks be marked on last play date and skipped if they were played within the last x hours/days to improve the random "feel".?
It's not just Sonos that does this, the MP3 player in both our cars do much the same and seem to favour some tracks in the set, even when there is a large set to choose from. So it's a common issue with "random" numbers generated by programmers.
Or is it my fault for storing tracks in folders? A quick look shows that one track that plays regularly to the exclusion of others is 4 deep in the file structure.
+1
Thought I would add a small suggestion to the original question.
It would be nice to have something like "Replace Queue and Shuffle" added to the list of options when tapping "All Songs" in a playlist. That way you wouldn't always immediately hear the first song in the playlist before manually going into the Queue menu and hitting "Shuffle." Might want to add the same functionality for "Repeat."
I also second the comment from way back when re: being able to shuffle albums (meaning play all songs of an album in order, then shuffle onto next album, etc.). I'm old school when it comes to listening to music in that (at least sometimes) I want to hear entire albums the way the artist released the music. Maybe add the option when long-pressing "Albums" under the Music Library menu.
It would be nice to have something like "Replace Queue and Shuffle" added to the list of options when tapping "All Songs" in a playlist. That way you wouldn't always immediately hear the first song in the playlist before manually going into the Queue menu and hitting "Shuffle." Might want to add the same functionality for "Repeat."
I also second the comment from way back when re: being able to shuffle albums (meaning play all songs of an album in order, then shuffle onto next album, etc.). I'm old school when it comes to listening to music in that (at least sometimes) I want to hear entire albums the way the artist released the music. Maybe add the option when long-pressing "Albums" under the Music Library menu.
Do it the way round. Enable Shuffle then load the queue.
+1
While I can see some value in seeing the order of the shuffle, I MUCH prefer to see the queue in the order I have entered it.
Generally, if I am playing a shuffle, I am not watching the queue. When I am watching the queue, I frequently change the next song in the order based on my mood.
This is not the first time that a long-available and very useful feature was simply discarded for an opposite effect/result. But I am getting annoyed enough to start commenting...
Personally I prefer to see the queue in the order of the shuffle the way it is now. It is truer to the real function of the queue--i.e., tells you what has played previously and what is next (whether or not you chose to shuffle your songs).
Unauthorized aside: Just goes to show that Sonos is damned if they do and damned if they don't. There are so many consumers with different needs, they have to make tough design decisions to try to please the majority which often creates an unhappy minority. So I wouldn't be so hard on them to say they "simply discarded" a feature--I imagine a lot of research and discussion when into the decision.
+1
Do it the way round. Enable Shuffle then load the queue.
True dat, although my suggestion stems from the one case where that doesn't work: when there is no queue to begin with (e.g., if the speaker lost power and rebooted). So I change my suggestion to adding the ability to enable shuffle (or repeat) even if there is no queue.
Now that I would certainly support.
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