Need possibility of adding delay in addition to the normal 70ms

  • 25 September 2012
  • 167 replies
  • 12005 views

Hi, I'm very excited about Sonos, and recently upgraded AV Receivers to be able to seamlessly switch inputs from CD/DVD/Phono/Sonos while using the Autoplay function in Sonos. Fantastic idea, (and very surprised not everyone's doing this), BUT I find that my system is no longer in sync (the Sonos P3's and P5 are ahead of the sound coming through the Connect via Hifi). I did not have this issue with the lower end Denon 1911, but I do now with the 3313. I can add delay with the 3313, but that doesn't help me since it's the other Sonos modules that are ahead of the Denon. Adding the possibility of adding delay (in addition to the required 70ms for processing) would make my system whole again.

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167 replies

+1 with the same problem using a Yamaha CX-A5000 processor which although is a few years old now was Yamaha's flagship on release.
Even in Pure Direct mode I'm getting a bit of lag which is the frustrating thing....

Come on Sonos, there's a hell of a lot of unhappy customers with this issue, surely this isn't too hard to implement with a software fix? If it is, why not tell us why it can't or won't be implemented?
I just swapped out my denon 1513 with a denon 3313. Right after hooking it up I got the dreaded audio delay. Tried a bunch of combinations to no avail. Switched between optical and analog etc. what finally resolved it for me was switching to the cd input. I was able to use optical and still no delay. Multi channel mode on cd input- no delay. Thanks to a poster early up this forum for suggesting the cd input. It’s likely that input is not using any processing by default.

Side note, while troubleshooting I found that when I used other inputs but did not plug in the hdmi from my projector the delay was not present. As soon as I plugged in the hdmi with the projector on, or as soon as I turned on the projector with the hdmi already plugged in, the echo would begin. It’s almost like the dsp kicked in once a video source was added. Kinda makes sense.

Thanks to all previous posters and contributors to this forum. It’s a great source of information and advice.

Thanks
Add me to the list. I have found a work around of sorts. But it only works for those who have in-house speakers systems like the Home Theater Direct MCA-66. You can hook the connect up to your AV receiver, then use the zone two output to send the music in sync and with DSP processing to the HTD (or similar) device. This of course defeats the entire advantage of the Sonos wireless system. I may switch to Yamaha Multicast.
I agree, this feature is in my opinion a must have and something that SONOS should have integrated from the beginning. I think it's just stupid to say that all SONOS devices are in sync and the problem is the DSP in the AV-receiver. Well, yes, that's true, but nevertheless the problem is that the total system is not in sync, and SONOS is a part of that system. When I added two Play:3 to my system the seller tried to convince me not to buy any more SONOS-units because of this issue. Sadly I'm to deep involved in SONOS now so it's to late to switch.

Please just fix this!
I just want to throw my hat in the ring as another user who's frustrated by this. The cheapie Chromecast audio has a delay adjustment, why can't this be implemented into the Sonos environment?



Hi Bob_m10, thanks for reaching out. We'll make sure this is still on the request sheet and will add your interest to it. There isn't really any update to share on if or when as we don't talk about future development generally.

In some situations, using different inputs or toggling off DSP on the receiver will help with any delay happening between the two devices. Generally speaking, what happens is that the Sonos software has been designed specifically to keep all Sonos players in sync automatically, so your CONNECT and the CONNECT:AMP or other players are all playing at the same timing. The receiver is adding a processing delay once the audio gets to it from the CONNECT.

So the suggestion here that we passed on is to have an option to add a delay to other players grouped to the CONNECT, or to add a pre-buffer to the CONNECT, so that it was timed faster than other players when grouped. Again, no particulars to share on that request however.

Thanks again!
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+1
still an issue, was looking for a new AV receiver and not 1 of them was able to play 2.1 sound without there being an syncing issue. Spent hours with rep from Richer sounds seeing if there was a way round the issue using receivers from every manufacture but not one of them worked. Ones with direct mode will work (but sound is shocking when the sub isn't connected)
I too was experiencing delay with my BOSE 5 speaker system using CONNECT. Then I noticed that I was connecting the CONNECT to the BOSE using the digital output. Normally, digital is better. But, it is the digital stream that feeds the digital signal processor (DSP) in the BOSE. The moment I switched from using digital/optical out in the CONNECT to the using the old timey analog output instead (and an old pair of those red/white analog cables), it was PROBLEM SOLVED!

It would also be important to pay attention to which input I am using on the BOSE (or any other receiver for that matter). If there is signal processing, it is most likely to be associated with the DVD, or SAT/cable inputs, since those kinds of source data have Dolby sound that needs to be "decoded." So in addition to only using analog cables, also use the AUX inputs on the receiver/BOSE equipment. That old timey input is the least likely to be routed through the internal digital signal processor. There is no need to defeat DSP (i.e. use "direct mode") if the input sound doesn't even go through those circuits to begin with.
Just hooked up a couple of Connect AMP's and a Connect to my Sony ZA5000-ES ($3500) AVR. Very disappointing to hear this delay even when running audio direct. I'm using $1K each main speakers in the family room and $1K/pr speakers on the patio because I wanted to have fantastic sound for this event. Sounds like I'm in the hallway of a stadium 😞 Any updates on this 4 year old feature request or ideas yet before I return everything? Thx
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Hi Bob_m10, thanks for reaching out. We'll make sure this is still on the request sheet and will add your interest to it. There isn't really any update to share on if or when as we don't talk about future development generally.

In some situations, using different inputs or toggling off DSP on the receiver will help with any delay happening between the two devices. Generally speaking, what happens is that the Sonos software has been designed specifically to keep all Sonos players in sync automatically, so your CONNECT and the CONNECT:AMP or other players are all playing at the same timing. The receiver is adding a processing delay once the audio gets to it from the CONNECT.

So the suggestion here that we passed on is to have an option to add a delay to other players grouped to the CONNECT, or to add a pre-buffer to the CONNECT, so that it was timed faster than other players when grouped. Again, no particulars to share on that request however.

Thanks again!


Appreciate the update Ryan. -Bob
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Hi Bob_m10, thanks for reaching out. We'll make sure this is still on the request sheet and will add your interest to it. There isn't really any update to share on if or when as we don't talk about future development generally.

In some situations, using different inputs or toggling off DSP on the receiver will help with any delay happening between the two devices. Generally speaking, what happens is that the Sonos software has been designed specifically to keep all Sonos players in sync automatically, so your CONNECT and the CONNECT:AMP or other players are all playing at the same timing. The receiver is adding a processing delay once the audio gets to it from the CONNECT.

So the suggestion here that we passed on is to have an option to add a delay to other players grouped to the CONNECT, or to add a pre-buffer to the CONNECT, so that it was timed faster than other players when grouped. Again, no particulars to share on that request however.

Thanks again!
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Hello, Thank you all for the comments. This request has been passed on to our Product Development team for review.

This was 3 years ago and they have yet to solve this issue. I called Sonos yesterday and the reps suggestion was I run a separate amp off my receiver and remove the sonos amp that runs the other room.
THis defeats the entire purpose of sonos!

Sonos created a delay in the video/audio side for their playbar so they have the technology, just need to implement into the connect amp settings.


As a new Sonos owner it is unsettling that Sonos has not even answered the community directly here. This is clearly a troubling problem for their users. I suspect it is not something they can do easily and/or something they feel does not have a good return on their investment. It would be nice to get an official update.
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Hello, Thank you all for the comments. This request has been passed on to our Product Development team for review.

This was 3 years ago and they have yet to solve this issue. I called Sonos yesterday and the reps suggestion was I run a separate amp off my receiver and remove the sonos amp that runs the other room.
THis defeats the entire purpose of sonos!

Sonos created a delay in the video/audio side for their playbar so they have the technology, just need to implement into the connect amp settings.

Personally, if listening to music I don't have the AV amp doing any processing - it is all designed for stereo, so why would you need to have a stereo audio track in surround? It might be fun, but it isn't true music reproduction.


There are different ways and reasons to consume music. There's "listening to music," where I sit down in front of high quality speakers, put on a great album, and just listen. And then there's "enjoying music," where I put something on in the background while I work, or hang out with friends, or make dinner. Perfect fidelity isn't always the most important goal.

I have Sonos in a room with 5 in-ceiling speakers. People are typically listening from many points in the room, and the adjacent room. To get the true and proper stereo sound, you'd need to be reasonably close to centered between the left and right channels, but that's just not the reality of the way the room is used (and in-ceiling speakers aren't very good for that anyway). Letting the AVR do its "5 channel stereo" thing makes the music more even throughout the room, and is generally more pleasant to listen to in a casual setting. The room correction (Audyssey) also helps it sound better with the small and imperfectly placed speakers.

I have a nice system in another room that I can use if I want to listen to the highest-quality sound (though in that case I don't typically use Sonos as the source). But when it's a bunch of people over for dinner, the benefits of having all of the speakers playing music far outweighs the loss of fidelity.
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The ability for a delay would seem to be a good suggestion to solve the problem, but I have no idea if it is technically feasible.

Personally, if listening to music I don't have the AV amp doing any processing - it is all designed for stereo, so why would you need to have a stereo audio track in surround? It might be fun, but it isn't true music reproduction.
Also, I think it is unfair of some of the comments in this thread to point the finger of blame at Sonos and argue with their "perfect sync" statement. The Sonos equipment is in perfect sync.
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Keep that chromecast dongle as far away from any other wifi equipment as you can (don't have it just sitting right on top of the connect).

I would keep the Chromecast volume at a fixed level (like 90%) then adjust just the Sonos volume as you would normally.
Thanks again Chris, I wanted to wait with my reply until I had the Chromecast audio set up. I now have it. It took a little effort, because I could never get that temporary wifi network that is mentioned in the instructions, but I set it up with my regular wifi and it works. This morning I had micro cuts in the music, but that seems to have disappeared for the time being. One aspect that is complicated is the volume setting, in 3 places: the Sonos application, the iPhone, and the Chromecast application.

Your last suggestion is very imaginative indeed. It would require more cables to split the signal. I'll leave it for later.

Anyway, what was originally a post out of frustration more than anything else has provided me with very useful advice. Thank you.
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You could also split the audio from the chromecast with it going direct to TV and then the other going to the connect input.

Why?

The TV would play the direct feed from the Chromecast dongle then (and add delay as the TV is obviously doing).

But - feeding into the input on the Connect will also delay the signal about 70ms in the case of Sonos digitizing and setting up to stream in sync.

So then any speaker playing Chromecast in Sonos will be delayed 70ms from the chromecast feed. Question is - will that then make it more in sync with the TV delayed sound (TV may be delaying more than 70ms but you'll see if test).

Then possibility chromecast to TV and Sonos will make the 2 systems more in-sync.
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of course here is the chromecast audio dongle you need https://www.google.com/chromecast/audio/explore/
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sure just get cable like this to plug the Chromecast Audio into the input on the Connect

http://www.amazon.com/PcConnectTM-Stereo-Y-Cable-3-5mm-Female/dp/B009Q88W0W/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1460990905&sr=1-2&keywords=stereo+to+2+rca

or just get one of these from the chromecast to the Connect (be surprised if you don't already have one of these lying around the house http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Audio-Cable-Splitter-1-Mini/dp/B00004Z5CP/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1460991116&sr=1-1&keywords=3.5mm+to+rca


Then you can set the input to autoplay to a certain speaker on your system or you can manually just chose Line In - Chromecast as what a speaker or group is playing. It can play just like any other Sonos music source.

In the Spotify app you will have a Chromecast button to send music to Chromecast (and thus Sonos).
Thank you Chris. How do you plug a chromecast audio dongle into the Sonos Connect? Or otherwise how to you get to broadcast the Spotify app on all speakers using the dongle? Perhaps by using an RCA to stereo cable adapter? I have searching the Internet since reading your post (from which I learned about the dongle), and it seems all it has is a stereo cable input which does not match anything on the Connect.
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I'm not sure the technical reason for not adding delay ability to other speakers. The Playbar is the only one with any kind of delay adjustment. But yes your TV speakers obviously add a lot of delay (typical for a TV) and aren't going to be in sync with stand alone Sonos speakers.

They recently added a lot of the requested Spotify integration. For full integration of course Spotify has to add Sonos Casting (which they won't) or Sonos needs to add Google Chromecast Audio to its ability (which we are hoping for).

Of course you have a Connect so you can get a cheap $30 chromecast dongle and cast all you want from the Spotify app directly.
Having bought my Sonos system just a few months ago, including a connect that plugs into the red and white RCA inputs of my Pioneer Kuros TV, which is equipped with excellent loudspeakers, I soon became aware of a slight delay when adding the TV speakers - the only stereo component - to the rest of the apartment. Now I see that this forum has been complaining about the issue for years - at least 3. Is Sonos saying it is technically impossible to add a delay adjustment to the installation? Perhaps, but I have not seen a clear statement on their part.

I don't want to mix issues, but I notice another big area of complaints - the inadequacy of the implementation of spotify. There also the complaints have been around for years, and nothing happens, and again no explanation from Sonos.

Is this a policy, a policy of no change and no explanation? I find it repulsive.
Pure direct solves the problem with delay, because this program do as the name suggest,-lets the music throug without prosessing it. Conesequently the sound qualitet will suffer, as there are only output from the front speakers,not from the center,and the surround speakers.
I have solved the delay by using the "pure direct" on my amp, the delay seems to be much reduced, it may still be there, but its good enough to have a party.

However this means i cant use my Amp to both zones in the house, which was knda the point of getting the connect... i may see if optical is faster.

adding a delay to the speaker would seem to be a simple answer, it would be the same delay for all non AMP speakers and only necessary when the connect and non connect speakers are in a single group.
I have had Sonos Connect for 2 years, and have used it to stream music to my six klipsch speakers, through a high end Pioneer AV-receiver. For this purpose, Sonos is a fantastic product.

Last saturday I expanded the system with one play 1 in the kitschen, and one in the bathroom. This just killed the hole listening experience, due to the problem of delay, described over the preceding 7 pages.

Had I known this in advance, the play 1 would not have been purchased. There is nothing in the commersials for Sonos, alerting buyers about this "out- of- sync" problem. The result for listening is horrible! I am very disapponted that Sonos keep on with the "perfect sync" commercials. This is a lie as big as the moon, as more and more customers now have an AV-receiver in ther home, and will be confronted with this issue (unless they are deaf).

Lucky me, the shop from where I bought these speakers, have a 30 days "no- question asked" return policy. Anyone like to take a guess what will happen with my two Sonos play 1? And after that I will buy a couple of better speakers , and connect them to different zones in the receiver. Hopefully this will solve the sync problem, but I will have to use cables.