Is it time to upgrade?

  • 3 December 2021
  • 13 replies
  • 342 views
F
Userlevel 7
Badge +8

So we run a bunch of ZP100s,ZP120s and a ZP80, plus a Play5, Playbar, Sub, and a plethora of Play1s and 3 CR100s.

And up till now we have been walled off on 8.4 and quite happy. However about a year ago the stream from Spotify to devices stopped working. And last week my NAS drive failed (not a drive failure). Its done sterling service since 2004 and I’ll probably give it a good send off with a flag and all that.

So now I can play the radio, and thats about it. All that tech and its just a wireless (with wires). There is a limited function Spotify option on the CR100 but its not great.

For my daughter the loss of Spotify streaming was a deal breaker so I have reset her Play1 and upgraded it to S1, and Spotify ‘stream to device’ is back working. I have relinked Spotify on 8.4 several times to get it to work but no luck, so pretty much confirms that it is a feature loss for 8.4 rather than a config/network issue,

NAS:

My understanding from a catch up in the threads is that SMBv2/3 is likely to be (or is) supported but requires all devices to be S2 so if I replace the NAS it will need to support SMB1 or use a SMB1 gateway. So for my ancient hardware there is no change, I’ll have to allow SMB1.

Last time I looked upgrading everything to S2 was something like £8k. So isn’t really a cheap option. A new NAS for Christmas. Although mostly the NAS only does duty for Sonos as most other data in the cloud now. So I wonder if I even need a NAS, and might just stick a cheap none Raid NAS in that backs up elsewhere (it did anyway even with Raid5).

Controllers:

The Sonos S1/S2 app is still is loved by some and hated by others, but could be used to stick the radio on (and could be used to play stuff not on Spotify). And that streaming from Spotify is the likely easy route for day to day listening. I quite like the Spotify app.

Option 1

Stay as I am and replace with cheap SMB1 capable NAS. And I can keep the CR100s. Limited Spotify access.

Option 2

Upgrade to S1, and gain Spotify easy access. Radio via Sonos App (that two app thing). Install cheap NAS capable of SMB1 for CDs. But lose the CR100s easy volume control/mute in my office when taking calls as will need to open an app after unlocking phone to pause music whilst answering phone.

With a possible option to fudge things onto additional tablets in kiosk mode so they work a bit like the CR100.

Option 3

Upgrade a whole ton of stuff and spend £8k and getting all new kit. Might be able to salvage a £1k from eBay of old kit.

 

Clearly all the above have scope for me shouting at Alexa and her ignoring me or doing something else. Does that just about sum the state of play?

Cheers

Dave

Owner since 2006: Legacy System(8.4):3*CR100:1*ZP80:4*ZP100:1*Play 5. - S1 System:1*ZP100:1*Z120. - S2 System:5*Amp:1*Port:2*Five:1*Arc,1*Move:1*Play Bar:1*Subwoofer:5*Play1 : Long live the CR100!
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13 replies

T
Userlevel 4
Badge +6

Add to the mix the following two “variants” of your options: (a) Get Spotify support from its app (which thankfully you like) via AirPlay, by hooking up a used AurPort Express (or a new Belkin SoundForm, if need be) as a line-in source to one of the ZonePlayers. (b) Get a dedicated Spotify app “controller” for your office, by purchasing a used iPad Mini (gen3 / gen4, or a new gen6 if need be) which can be left on & in the Spotify app 100% of the time, so no delays.

P.S. Kudos for saving your CR100s; mine got left behind by an insufficiently-warned iPhone user updating the system.

Stanley_4
Userlevel 7
Badge +22

I greatly regret upgrading and trashing my spouses CR-100s.

At this point she won’t touch the Sonos systems we have. Barely tolerates a Beam on her TV. She has hand issues that make a touch screen difficult.

F
Userlevel 7
Badge +8

I greatly regret upgrading and trashing my spouses CR-100s.

At this point she won’t touch the Sonos systems we have. Barely tolerates a Beam on her TV. She has hand issues that make a touch screen difficult.

I’d prefer to keep them but am probably at the point where enough doesn’t work that I might as well upgrade. I can replace the NAS and stay where I am minus Spotify.
Touch screens are great but we don’t replace light switches with apps. Tactile simple controls with feedback rock.

Owner since 2006: Legacy System(8.4):3*CR100:1*ZP80:4*ZP100:1*Play 5. - S1 System:1*ZP100:1*Z120. - S2 System:5*Amp:1*Port:2*Five:1*Arc,1*Move:1*Play Bar:1*Subwoofer:5*Play1 : Long live the CR100!
F
Userlevel 7
Badge +8

Add to the mix the following two “variants” of your options: (a) Get Spotify support from its app (which thankfully you like) via AirPlay, by hooking up a used AurPort Express (or a new Belkin SoundForm, if need be) as a line-in source to one of the ZonePlayers. (b) Get a dedicated Spotify app “controller” for your office, by purchasing a used iPad Mini (gen3 / gen4, or a new gen6 if need be) which can be left on & in the Spotify app 100% of the time, so no delays.

P.S. Kudos for saving your CR100s; mine got left behind by an insufficiently-warned iPhone user updating the system.

I don’t dislike the latest Sonos App. I haven’t seen the Sonos App in the last 3-years to dislike the current version. It might be great. But a quick read of the forums says it’s not without issues. I’ll borrow daughters app at some point and give it a whirl. I find the Spotify App decent (used for running, travelling, etc)

The airplay is a decent suggestion. Not quite sure how it works but if streaming from phone and I wander off will it kill the stream for others. We have a sizeable place, and often dealing with bits and pieces outside (we run a set of holiday cottages so often in/out). It  just gets a bit clunky. Choose source (from another zone) in the Sonos App and then stream from phone. A far cry from the original design intent of simplicity. 

I tried an Amazon Fire as a dedicated tablet but it wasn’t that slick, maybe underpowered, and a flaky kiosk mode etc. But gave up. I might have more luck with an iPad (and I can trial it). Probably worth a revisit.

Good suggestions  Thanks  

 

 

Owner since 2006: Legacy System(8.4):3*CR100:1*ZP80:4*ZP100:1*Play 5. - S1 System:1*ZP100:1*Z120. - S2 System:5*Amp:1*Port:2*Five:1*Arc,1*Move:1*Play Bar:1*Subwoofer:5*Play1 : Long live the CR100!
Stanley_4
Userlevel 7
Badge +22

I’ve had good luck with the lower end Samsung tablets from Costco or Sam’s, look for sales that really drop the prices. They work well enough and seem to get updates for several years.

Once OS updates end though you’ll soon see a pop-up note from Sonos about the OS being unsupported. Basic stuff still seems to work but setup and such will have to be done from a newer tablet.

T
Userlevel 4
Badge +6

Correct, when streaming Spotify via AirPlay, your streaming device must be on your Wi-Fi network (the same local network the AirPlay receiver is on) continuously, because the device is streaming the data from Spotify and to the AirPlay-supporting receiver (or speaker).  As opposed to Spotify Connect, where Spotify’s server builds a direct connection to the compatible/supporting playback speaker.  Re: using Samsung tablets, that is great for new controller substitutes, but will not work if using an AirPlay receiver on a ZonePlayer’s line-in port, because the *source* of all AirPlay transmissions must be an Apple brand device.  Thus my suggestion of an Apple iPad devoted to the task.  There is probably some ChromeCast Audio dongle that could do Spotify line-in with those Samsung tablets, but I don’t know anything about Google’s ecosystem.

F
Userlevel 7
Badge +8

Correct, when streaming Spotify via AirPlay, your streaming device must be on your Wi-Fi network (the same local network the AirPlay receiver is on) continuously, because the device is streaming the data from Spotify and to the AirPlay-supporting receiver (or speaker).  As opposed to Spotify Connect, where Spotify’s server builds a direct connection to the compatible/supporting playback speaker.  Re: using Samsung tablets, that is great for new controller substitutes, but will not work if using an AirPlay receiver on a ZonePlayer’s line-in port, because the *source* of all AirPlay transmissions must be an Apple brand device.  Thus my suggestion of an Apple iPad devoted to the task.  There is probably some ChromeCast Audio dongle that could do Spotify line-in with those Samsung tablets, but I don’t know anything about Google’s ecosystem.

Thanks, got a Chromecast device kicking about for TV but it never gets used. Simplicity always seems to win. We watch everything through SkyQ (including Netflix/Prime) and even watch films we have on DVD/Bluray via streaming because its less faff than getting the disc out. We listen(ed) to everything through Sonos, radio, Spotify, CDs from NAS. I’d also roll that simplicity statement to set-up, its what got me on to Sonos in the first place. Connecting a dongle to a do-bris running on a Pi, to simulate a whatsit so that the stream can replicate across the planosphere is frankly a pain.

Music stopping because someones gone to feed some animals or deal with guests and then has to be streamed when they get back is clunky at best. So would probably end up with dedicated iPads to stream to airplay. In which case we almost might as well ditch the CR100s and upgrade to S1 when Spotify Connect can do its thing, and use the iPad as a dedicated controller.

In terms of actions:-

I bought a cheap ZP100 off eBay last night (£40) so will upgrade that to S1 so have a couple of zones (this and daughters Play1) so I can play with it. Will set this one up in my office without having to touch the core system. I have a Fire Tablet, and a relatively spare iPad and will set-up as kiosk mode.

And I’ll have a hunt for a cheap simple NAS to replace the dead one.

Thanks for thinking points.

Dave

Owner since 2006: Legacy System(8.4):3*CR100:1*ZP80:4*ZP100:1*Play 5. - S1 System:1*ZP100:1*Z120. - S2 System:5*Amp:1*Port:2*Five:1*Arc,1*Move:1*Play Bar:1*Subwoofer:5*Play1 : Long live the CR100!
U
Userlevel 1

I held out for months not upgrading to S2 as I had a Play 5 Gen 1 (appreciate that is not 8k of stuff though!)

I have excellent wifi and was experiencing constant drop outs and repeated attempts at getting my Google Home hub and or spotify to play anything. Logged tickets with Sonos support and they said there were no issues but the memory on the Play 5 was full and therefore a reboot of this fixed it for a while before the issues reoccurred a few weeks later. 
I managed to find a chart somewhere online which indicated the RAM capacity of each sonos unit and I noticed the Play 5 gen 1 had half or less RAM of almost all other “S2 Compatible” units, so I bit the bullet and tried S2 and have been using this for several months now.

I now love Sonos again. The difference is night and day and a really clear indication that the old hardware can’t reliably support the current music and integration  services. 

However I think the best solution to your SMB issues is to use Plex as a music service to stream your home media. This would mean that you’d need to either install the Plex server on your nas (if possible) or use some kind of raspberry pi or PC as an always on plex server. Theres also a mobile app which supports car play so you can stream all your music from home to car which is pretty cool, plus you can shove any movies or TV shows you have into there too. 

F
Userlevel 7
Badge +8

I held out for months not upgrading to S2 as I had a Play 5 Gen 1 (appreciate that is not 8k of stuff though!)

I have excellent wifi and was experiencing constant drop outs and repeated attempts at getting my Google Home hub and or spotify to play anything. Logged tickets with Sonos support and they said there were no issues but the memory on the Play 5 was full and therefore a reboot of this fixed it for a while before the issues reoccurred a few weeks later. 
I managed to find a chart somewhere online which indicated the RAM capacity of each sonos unit and I noticed the Play 5 gen 1 had half or less RAM of almost all other “S2 Compatible” units, so I bit the bullet and tried S2 and have been using this for several months now.

I now love Sonos again. The difference is night and day and a really clear indication that the old hardware can’t reliably support the current music and integration  services. 

However I think the best solution to your SMB issues is to use Plex as a music service to stream your home media. This would mean that you’d need to either install the Plex server on your nas (if possible) or use some kind of raspberry pi or PC as an always on plex server. Theres also a mobile app which supports car play so you can stream all your music from home to car which is pretty cool, plus you can shove any movies or TV shows you have into there too. 

Bit the bullet and rolled the dice on some new Sonos kit!

  • 5 Sonos Amps
  • 1 Port
  • 2 Play 5s
  • Arc
  • Move

So that was £4.5k of kit. I could keep the 5 Play1s, Playbar, and sub which have all moved to S2. So not quite 8k. But did add a Synology DS220+ NAS for another £868. With a couple of brackets for the ports the switch cost me £5.5k and I recouped about £500 on the Zone players I sold.

I miss the CR100, my phone is always where I left it, the CR100s were always in their cradles!

It does mean I mainly use the Spotify App for music selection which is fine as it is also native in the car. Long term I see this as a big loss for Sonos. I now use Spotify for music, I previously used Sonos. It loses the user, I can see the user caring as much about Sonos as they do about the maker of the SkyQ box. Sonos just becomes a box shifter.

I don’t have much interaction with the Sonos app at all.

On the plus side £500 for selling 16-year old streaming devices is bonkers! If I get anything like that out of the new kit I will be very happy. 

Dave

 

 

Owner since 2006: Legacy System(8.4):3*CR100:1*ZP80:4*ZP100:1*Play 5. - S1 System:1*ZP100:1*Z120. - S2 System:5*Amp:1*Port:2*Five:1*Arc,1*Move:1*Play Bar:1*Subwoofer:5*Play1 : Long live the CR100!
106rallye
Userlevel 7
Badge +17

Great review. It just depends on what you are used to. I always have my phone with me, as I expect many people have. If you are used to putting your phone on a side table when entering the house, I see you’d want the CR100’s back. Would voice control (in your case with the help of with Alexa or Google devices) not at least ease the “pain” of losing the remotes?

F
Userlevel 7
Badge +8

Great review. It just depends on what you are used to. I always have my phone with me, as I expect many people have. If you are used to putting your phone on a side table when entering the house, I see you’d want the CR100’s back. Would voice control (in your case with the help of with Alexa or Google devices) not at least ease the “pain” of losing the remotes?

As you might guess from the list of kit we have it isn’t the littlest spot so phone not always to hand. I have added 4 more Echo Dots to the 3 Alexa devices we have and it covers most of the areas. It works for stopping music/putting the radio on. Once I learned the exact phrases to say and had to add TuneIn to get Alexa to play BBC Radio2. But prefer scrolling through album covers for picking music. 
 

But it’s working and I’m sure we will adjust. 

Owner since 2006: Legacy System(8.4):3*CR100:1*ZP80:4*ZP100:1*Play 5. - S1 System:1*ZP100:1*Z120. - S2 System:5*Amp:1*Port:2*Five:1*Arc,1*Move:1*Play Bar:1*Subwoofer:5*Play1 : Long live the CR100!
ossodiseppia
Userlevel 3
Badge +3

Buy a PORT and plug it into the back of one of your old ZPs.

K
Userlevel 1
Badge +1

Correct, when streaming Spotify via AirPlay, your streaming device must be on your Wi-Fi network (the same local network the AirPlay receiver is on) continuously, because the device is streaming the data from Spotify and to the AirPlay-supporting receiver (or speaker).  As opposed to Spotify Connect, where Spotify’s server builds a direct connection to the compatible/supporting playback speaker.  Re: using Samsung tablets, that is great for new controller substitutes, but will not work if using an AirPlay receiver on a ZonePlayer’s line-in port, because the *source* of all AirPlay transmissions must be an Apple brand device.  Thus my suggestion of an Apple iPad devoted to the task.  There is probably some ChromeCast Audio dongle that could do Spotify line-in with those Samsung tablets, but I don’t know anything about Google’s ecosystem.

Thanks, got a Chromecast device kicking about for TV but it never gets used. Simplicity always seems to win. We watch everything through SkyQ (including Netflix/Prime) and even watch films we have on DVD/Bluray via streaming because its less faff than getting the disc out. We listen(ed) to everything through Sonos, radio, Spotify, CDs from NAS. I’d also roll that simplicity statement to set-up, its what got me on to Sonos in the first place. Connecting a dongle to a do-bris running on a Pi, to simulate a whatsit so that the stream can replicate across the planosphere is frankly a pain.

Music stopping because someones gone to feed some animals or deal with guests and then has to be streamed when they get back is clunky at best. So would probably end up with dedicated iPads to stream to airplay. In which case we almost might as well ditch the CR100s and upgrade to S1 when Spotify Connect can do its thing, and use the iPad as a dedicated controller.

In terms of actions:-

I bought a cheap ZP100 off eBay last night (£40) so will upgrade that to S1 so have a couple of zones (this and daughters Play1) so I can play with it. Will set this one up in my office without having to touch the core system. I have a Fire Tablet, and a relatively spare iPad and will set-up as kiosk mode.

And I’ll have a hunt for a cheap simple NAS to replace the dead one.

Thanks for thinking points.

Dave

 

Synology NAS still supports SMB1 even on the latest DSM 7 version but you have to enable it

the other option you have as well is install Plex server on the NAS and set Plex as a music source on the Sonos (this also allows you to get round the 65,000 track limit

https://support.sonos.com/s/article/3405?language=en_US#:~:text=Is%20Plex%20affected%20by%20the,available%20to%20your%20Sonos%20system.

 

 

 

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