Feature Request: Allow Sonos Move to pair with Sub

  • 12 December 2019
  • 16 replies
  • 4980 views
M
Userlevel 3
Badge +2

Please provide a software update that allows Sonus Move to pair with a Sonus Sub. I shouldn’t be forced to buy another Sub-compatible speaker in order to pair with a Sub then group them all. 
 

I understand the reasoning of the Move being portable, but if I want one or more Moves paired with a Sub while they’re in their normal location, you should let me. It’s easy enough to turn off the Sub temporarily if I want to take the Move(s) in another room (or outside) and the Sub isn’t nearby. 
 

In my case, I want a pair of Moves+Sub in my bedroom/bathroom with the Sub under the bed. I bought the Moves so I could “Move” them in the bathroom when I shower and get ready without having to unplug/plug power cables. In order to achieve this, I had to buy a Play:5 to pair with the Sub. The Sub is still in close proximity and sounds great with the additional Play:5 but I don’t really need the extra Play:5 and this kind of use case is exactly why some people will buy Moves instead of fixed-location Ones or Plays.

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16 replies

AjTrek1
Userlevel 7

Hi Music Nut

Your request has merit but I doubt it will happen as  it would take more than just a software/firmware upgrade. Most likely the NIC would have be changed to one similar to those found in the Play 5, Sonos One;s and like.

Also, the a sub bonded to a Move would be limited as they are now. As They are not designed to be shared by more than one room/zoom.

Together Everyone Achieves More = T.E.A.M.
M
Userlevel 3
Badge +2

Not sure I agree with the NIC assessment as the Move architecture already supports Airplay 2 and dual-band wireless networking.  I’m not saying your wrong, but the foundation appears to be there so hoping a software update to allow pairing would resolve this.  My understanding is the engineers purposely disallowed pairing these as they envisioned customers would take the speakers to other rooms, possibly far from the Sub, but still expect the Sub sound to be in sync.  While I understand the desire to avoid receiving support calls from customers who don’t understand the physics of this, those of us that do understand this should be allowed to. I don’t think it would be that difficult to just have the app display a message stating this when pairing this combo and the let the customer make the decision.  In other words, let us decide how we want to use the tech, inform us of the pitfalls, but don’t constrain us.

Airgetlam

To my knowledge, the SUB uses the SonosNet tech to maintain a connection with the “master” device. SonosNet is not available in the Sonos Move, so I’d concur with AjTrek1’s assessment of major challenges.

Bruce
M
Userlevel 3
Badge +2

That is a bummer. Guess they’re going back...

AjTrek1
Userlevel 7

That is a bummer. Guess they’re going back...

Hi Music Nut

Sorry to hear that you may be considering returning your Move’s.  As you already know the reasons why the Move will not bond with a sub via the “public” release notes and FAQ’s (as indicated in your original post) I’ll not rehash that information. However, I’d like you to consider your request allowing the Move to pair with the Sub from a marketing point of view.

Sonos like any other company wants it’s products to be innovation and integrate smoothly with existing products where practical; but not at the expense of loss revenue (i.e profit). Sonos already has the Beam, Playbar, Playbase, Sonos Amp, Play 5, Sonos One and Sonos One SL that integrate with the Sub. The latter two IMO would be most vulnerable to loss revenue. 

Negating the public release notes and FAQ’a I mentioned earlier think what would happen if consumers decided to purchase Move’s instead of the Sonos One’s and Sonos One SL’s as stand-alone, stereo pair and/or surround speakers which incidentally, do bond with the Sub. 🤔 Sonos IMO would experience a decline in sales of those products in favor of the Move. Separate revenue streams are important to any company versus having a single revenue stream in one product that supposedly meets every conceive able need.

Price point aside it’s just not good marketing to put all your eggs in one basket. Furthermore, you don’t want products that compete against one another.  

The Move was designed to fill a consumer request of a portable speaker in the Sonos product line; not replace existing products. I think Sonos did an excellent job of meeting that request; or as some would say “listening to the voice of the consumer”.  

I hope you reconsider returning your Move’s as they meet the intended purposes for which they were designed (portability) and more. :wink:

Cheers!

Together Everyone Achieves More = T.E.A.M.
M
Userlevel 3
Badge +2

So, paraphrasing here, you’re basically saying that if Sonos created the “perfect” product with the Move, they would be competing with themselves (it would be “near perfect” if it bonded with a Sub). To that, I can only say that if they don’t, someone else will, and is what they should truly be concerned with.  Amazon is going full steam ahead with it’s Echo line and it is only a matter of time before they catch up to Sonos in the realm of connected (and portable) audio. If Denon could fix their HEOS limitations and awful app, could also be serious competition.

I do get what you’re saying to a certain degree, but I really hope this isn’t Sonos’ perspective.  There is still plenty of market for Ones and One SLs.  At less than half the price of a Move, people will certainly still opt for them. And, as smaller units, will also satisfy a need where a Move is too large. 

On a side note, isn’t the Move really a replacement for the Play:3 which is now discontinued?

For me personally, the Ones don’t have the same audio range and at the end of they day, sound quality is the most important factor.  For the same price as two Moves, I could buy 4 Ones, stick two in the bedroom and two in the bathroom, but the the sound quality just isn’t there for me. A pair of Play:5s are too big to stick on my bathroom countertops and don’t have voice control.  The Moves are just right, and portable to boot, but can’t bond with the Sub. That is my dilemma.

So, for now, everything is going back.  It makes me sad because I can see myself porting over my entire house to Sonos eventually.  I have quite a bit of audio equipment (GoldenEar/Denon in my family room home theater, GoldenEar/NAD D7050/REL Sub in my office, Bose in the basement).  And I want to expand it to my kitchen and dining room via ceiling-mounted speakers.  I think the new Amp product is phenomenal and having one, cohesive ecosystem that is easy to use (I love the Sonus app by the way), is appealing.  That said, I refuse to invest in a company that tells me the way I “should” use their products instead of letting me decide.

I’m a patient person, so hopefully, Sonos will either release a software update or a Sub-compatible version of the Move at some point.  If they do, I’ll re-evaluate. 

AjTrek1
Userlevel 7

So, paraphrasing here, you’re basically saying that if Sonos created the “perfect” product with the Move, they would be competing with themselves (it would be “near perfect” if it bonded with a Sub). To that, I can only say that if they don’t, someone else will, and is what they should truly be concerned with.  Amazon is going full steam ahead with it’s Echo line and it is only a matter of time before they catch up to Sonos in the realm of connected (and portable) audio. If Denon could fix their HEOS limitations and awful app, could also be serious competition.

 

 

You are somewhat correct that if the Move were to bond with the sub it would be a near perfect product by some standards. The caveat being “near” perfect. I don’t think Amazon is a threat (at the moment) as they have not invested in speaker audio reproduction to the degree as Sonos. IMO even with the new Amazon Echo Studio the quality is not on par with a Sonos One as it (the Amazon Studio) tries to cover too wide of a frequency range rather than focusing upon a specific area and allowing a dedicated sub to fill in the gaps. The Apple Home Pod as a primary competitor versus Amazon’s offering IMO is bass heavy.

Denon HEOS is a non-issue as Denon has been proven in the courts to have infringed upon Sonos patents. Click the link for more info on Denon vs Sonos: 

https://www.cepro.com/news/sonos_vs_denon_heos_understanding_the_patent_lawsuits/

 

I do get what you’re saying to a certain degree, but I really hope this isn’t Sonos’ perspective.  There is still plenty of market for Ones and One SLs.  At less than half the price of a Move, people will certainly still opt for them. And, as smaller units, will also satisfy a need where a Move is too large. 

 

Here you have a point; but as I tried to convey in my first response “Price” point is not always the primary consideration. Sometimes it’s about negating “price” as a consideration...period...and focusing upon “Use”. 

 

On a side note, isn’t the Move really a replacement for the Play:3 which is now discontinued?

 

While that premise has been put forth before I doubt that the Move is a replacement for the Play 3 for the very reason you have pointed out as a limitation. The Move cannot bond with the Sub or be used in a home theater setup; whereas the Play 3 could on both counts. If you were to query the community you might find opinion that the Sonos One’s audio quality made the Play 3 a moot point beyond 3ft as a stand-alone speaker for stereo separation.

 

For me personally, the Ones don’t have the same audio range and at the end of they day, sound quality is the most important factor.  For the same price as two Moves, I could buy 4 Ones, stick two in the bedroom and two in the bathroom, but the the sound quality just isn’t there for me. A pair of Play:5s are too big to stick on my bathroom countertops and don’t have voice control.  The Moves are just right, and portable to boot, but can’t bond with the Sub. That is my dilemma.

 

The Sonos One may not have the same audio range as the Move. IMO that makes perfect sense as the Move is designed to be used outdoors which requires a wider frequency response or just to play louder at the same volume level.

As fair as using the Move in a bathroom it makes sense as it is weather resistant as the Play 5 and Sonos One are only humidity resistant.  However, outside of the fact that the Move requires no electrical input and that you could conceivably place it in a shower (however not my choice) with an adequate charge how much volume do you need in a bathroom :thinking: .  However, that’s a personal choice.

 

So, for now, everything is going back.  It makes me sad because I can see myself porting over my entire house to Sonos eventually.  I have quite a bit of audio equipment (GoldenEar/Denon in my family room home theater, GoldenEar/NAD D7050/REL Sub in my office, Bose in the basement).  And I want to expand it to my kitchen and dining room via ceiling-mounted speakers.  I think the new Amp product is phenomenal and having one, cohesive ecosystem that is easy to use (I love the Sonus app by the way), is appealing.  That said, I refuse to invest in a company that tells me the way I “should” use their products instead of letting me decide.

 

 

Using Sonos through your home is a personal decision that I fully understand. I am a Sonos fan but have to admit that in my media room I use a wireless Dolby Atmos setup. I still have Sonos HT setups in bedrooms and family room. I use a Sonos Amp with TT and 3rd party speakers. Another Sonos Amp to power a set of Definitive Technology tower speakers. I have Play 5’s in stereos pair for music as well as a Port connected to a CD payer.  All the aforementioned with Sonos Sub for low-end. So. I fully understand your desire to have a cohesive Sonos ecosystem. However, even Sonos cannot fulfill every need; as I can attest to.

As for as letting the consumer decide what is best by offering choice can prove to be detrimental to a companies bottom-line and sometimes unwarranted. Here’s an example…

Apple has resisted placing a touch screen on their MacBooks although every reviewer says they should. Yet Apple continues to be the go to PC (IMO) in terms of reliability and ease of use for a vast majority of creative professionals.

I personally own Windows and Mac PC’s. All of which are laptops. Call it being lazy or whatever but I have yet to use the touch screen capability of my Windows laptops. I find it much easier to move my mouse; and BTW I hate touch pads. Incidentally, I don’t want a bunch of fingerprints all over my laptop screen. I also find it too much effort to reach across my desk to touch the screen.  

If I want touch screen ease of use I use my iPad Pro 11 inch. However, the jokes on me as I have my iPad Pro docked to a Brydge Keyboard using the now available iPadOS mouse interface. In truth I’m typing this response using my iPad Pro and haven’t touched the screen...not even once. 

With all do respect...As far as your refusing to invest in a company that tells you how to use their product versus letting you decide...please tell me what product (comparable to Sonos in terms of complexity) that offers you complete user autotomy with no “I wish it did this or that”. 

In conclusion, I have no vested interest as to whether or not you stay with Sonos...heck I don’t even own Sonos stock. I’m just trying to offer a different point of view that accepts the Sonos Move for what it does and not for what it doesn’t given that your requested improvement (or lack therefore) was clearly acknowledged before you purchased the unit(s). 

In the meantime...Happy New Year :hugging: and I hope you find the system that meets your expectations and provides the choice you desire. 

Cheers!

 

Together Everyone Achieves More = T.E.A.M.
M
Userlevel 1
Badge

Shame to discover this. Just assumed it would work.  I also would have bought a second Move for use outdoors if I had the option opening the French windows to let my Sub join the party.

B
Userlevel 1

I bought two Moves and a Sub, and they arrived yesterday and today, respectively.  Much to my chagrin the Sub can’t pair with the Moves.  This is strange as hell, and completely unnecessary. It’s also frustrating that this isn’t printed in gigantic letters when you buy the Move with the Sub together, as it must be relatively obvious what the intention is.  So, do I just return the whole shebang and buy random wired speakers?

Airgetlam

So, I’m looking at https://www.sonos.com/en-us/shop/move.html

One of the items under the FAQs is:

Does Move pair with Sub?

No. Because Move is designed to move around your home, pairing with Sub would result in mid and high frequencies in one room and bass in another for imbalanced sound and an inferior listening experience. You can, however, group Move with a system that includes Sub, such as a 5.1 home theater setup.

Bruce
B
Userlevel 1

So, I’m looking at https://www.sonos.com/en-us/shop/move.html

One of the items under the FAQs is:

Does Move pair with Sub?

No. Because Move is designed to move around your home, pairing with Sub would result in mid and high frequencies in one room and bass in another for imbalanced sound and an inferior listening experience. You can, however, group Move with a system that includes Sub, such as a 5.1 home theater setup.

Your response to “frustrating that this isn’t printed in gigantic letters when you buy the Move with the Sub together, as it must be relatively obvious what the intention is.  So, do I just return the whole shebang and buy random wired speakers?” is to explain that it is buried in an FAQ?  And to be clear, the answer in the FAQ is extremely weak.  I am now having an inferior listening experience because I can’t use my $700 Sub.

M
Userlevel 1
Badge

Good to at least see you have the option to put them in a 5.1 setup.  That does help some, particularly if you are trying to de-clutter the living room and only get the surrounds out on Movie Nights. Though l find my Move so useful around the house, it’s always on charge ready to go on its journey to the bathroom, garage, utility room or wherever l want good music. 
 

Michael

M
Userlevel 3
Badge +2

I bought two Moves and a Sub, and they arrived yesterday and today, respectively.  Much to my chagrin the Sub can’t pair with the Moves.  This is strange as hell, and completely unnecessary. It’s also frustrating that this isn’t printed in gigantic letters when you buy the Move with the Sub together, as it must be relatively obvious what the intention is.  So, do I just return the whole shebang and buy random wired speakers?

I feel your frustration.  I again come back to the point that Sonos shouldn’t be dictating HOW we use our products.  If I want to bond a Sub to a pair of Moves, figure out a way to let me without having to buy more unnecessary equipment.  In the meantime, they should absolutely call out in big, bold, red text that the Sub is not bondable to Moves when you’re cart contains both.

I ended up returning the Moves and going with an Amp/Sub combo.  I’m not saying you should do the same but is an option.  Another option, but requires a little more $, is to buy a One or One SL and bond that to the Sub. Then, just group the Moves and One/Sub.  You can leave the One in a permanent place and unplug/plug-in the Sub near your Moves, group the “rooms” and rock out.  Just know that wherever you place the One is going to also be playing.

A suggestion Sonos if you’re paying attention - it would be so nice if Sub didn’t require a “master” at all and was just available to group with any room or rooms.  The grouping already handles the sync between devices so it really isn’t that different.  You’d just need to let us control the level, crossover and phase (like now), just optionally independent of a master device.

M

I like  Sonos products but I’m really disappointed that the move doesn’t  work with the Sub. I had the Move already and purchased the Sub  I  was going to purchase the ARC sound bar and try to pair the 3 devices together. I think I’m going to hold off  purchasing the ARC and  return the Sub. I will probably buy the AMP  and use my existing speakers.

M
Userlevel 3
Badge +2

Posted this Feature Request.  Please help further it along by liking and replying.

 

Ken_Griffiths

Posted this Feature Request.  Please help further it along by liking and replying.

 

I don’t personally think this would work with current hardware - take for example the Sonos Amp being used for TV surround audio - to keep the TV audio in sync with the video on screen the Amp has to use the faster 5ghz WiFi band in a ‘bonded’ setup with its surround speakers.. if the Amp and surrounds were then ‘grouped’ with the sub, it would use the slower 2.4ghz WiFi band (this is what Sonos uses for grouped players - 2.4ghz WiFi has better penetration) and to make them sync over distance there is a (required) minimum 75ms audio buffer .. so in this instance you would either have the following potential problems:

  1. Due to grouping over 2.4ghz The sub would become out of sync by 75ms, or so, with the Amp TV audio-out to itself and it’s surrounds.
  1. If you were to buffer all the TV audio to make the players play in sync, there will be lip-sync issues with the video on the TV. 
     
  2. Bonding with a sub over 5ghz in another location of the home will ‘most probably’ suffer audio dropouts/interference due to the poor penetration through walls etc. 

This is why ‘bonded’ surrounds and sub need to be in the same room, or at least in close proximity, to the main Sonos Home Theatre device, as those with slightly larger homes, who have their Sonos Amp located in a central server area, have discovered to their detriment and have complained about in several other threads in this community.

I personally think we may need to see improvements in WiFi penetration and speed for this to become a viable suggestion. We would need new Sonos Hardware (perhaps with two 5ghz WiFi adapters) too.

At least those are my ‘initial’ thoughts on this idea.

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