Airplay 2 - iOS 11.4


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I am led to believe iOS 11.4 will be released later today allowing Airplay 2 support; assuming Sonos will also release an update to allow this function soon?

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You can assume if you like, but Sonos never gives out firm release dates. In this case, I imagine the delays from Apple getting Airplay 2 working right has put a crimp in Sonos' schedule, and they would be even more wary of giving a date than normal.
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Hard to believe Sonos don't have this working in house and are just final tweaking as required for public release?
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Looking at the article below, it may be that integration with Sonos may not be as simple as it appears.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/29/17403684/airplay-2-ios-114-stereo-homepod-available-now

It looks like Airplay 2 is pretty similar to the original Airplay in that you aren't sending commands to Sonos to play a particular song (as you do with Alexa). Instead, you're streaming audio through your phone to speakers. Homepod is the exception to that in that it just takes the commands from your phone and streams it on it's own. It may be that a Sonos integration will not stream through the phone, but will work like the Homepod does, receive commands from the phone only and not a stream. If that's the case, then perhaps the integration will come at a later date. I don't know.

Then again maybe Apple+Sonos users couldn't care less about that, and the integration is no different than any other airplay integration.

Aside, is it just me or is it a little weird that the Homepod is using Airplay2 to do Stereo pairing? From the description in the article, I'm not even convinced that it's a true stereo pairing, but more like a pairing so that 2 homepods in the same rooms balance each other out better or something. I can somewhat see that as intentional as perhaps Apple wants you to put the speakers anywhere in the room without being concerned about proper placement.
Apple tvOS (4th gen) gets AirPlay-2 aswell, it seems.

I’m wondering if that means I will eventually be able to stream Netflix (audio) from my ATV across to my New Sonos One Speakers... I think it does !
I'm certainly hoping that Sonos adding AirPlay 2 support means that my Sonos One will appear to my iPhone to be just another wireless speaker, and so any app that allows you to output to AirPlay 2 will let you send its audio to the Sonos One. For example, the BBC iPlayer Radio app, or the Audible app.
I'm certainly hoping that Sonos adding AirPlay 2 support means that my Sonos One will appear to my iPhone to be just another wireless speaker, and so any app that allows you to output to AirPlay 2 will let you send its audio to the Sonos One. For example, the BBC iPlayer Radio app, or the Audible app.
Paul1999,

From things I have read so far... it appears that your new Sonos One Speaker will become an AirPlay compatible device and from the Airplay icon in the iOS compatible apps, you will be able to send the audio to the speaker... so that’s BBC IPlayer, YouTube, Netflix, Amazon Video, Podcasts etc. etc. to name but a few of the hundreds of apps available in the Apple Store and elsewhere.

The Sonos blog also talks about being able to group either your “Sonos One/Playbase/Play-5 (gen2)” Speakers ...with your other Sonos Rooms.

I think it will be a huge step forward for the Sonos customer as it presents access to a great deal of audio and video sources ...and there is a claim that the audio and video will sync perfectly with the iDevices like iPad/iPhone and hopefully Apple TV too.

I’m looking forward to seeing if this really does turn out to be the case... it certainly sounds good, if it is !

I guess the next question is how long will it be before Sonos can develop and release this? Airplay-2 and iOS11.4 has only just been released by Apple, so I suspect it maybe a while.
I am led to believe iOS 11.4 will be released later today allowing Airplay 2 support; assuming Sonos will also release an update to allow this function soon?

The situation is simple really: I use apple products and airplay2 is something I have been waiting for YEARS for (long before they announced it). It is way overdue IMO. I bought a set of Sonos Connect and Sonos Connect Amps knowing that they have airplay 1 but gambled on the proposition that they would be able to do airplay2. If they cannot, I would much rather get rid of these in favor of something is compatible. I am still looking for the a multi room CENTRALIZED option as well where all of it is in one box with a bunch of wires coming out.

I would also like to see hear my doorbells cause music to fade a bit and doorbell chime to come through my distributed system. Once I have that, there is literally no need for me to own a centralized home automation system for that application.

I do like that multiple streaming services can be combined in sonos and that is really its ONE killer app at this point.

I am NOT buying tabletop speakers for airplay2 from sonos or anyone else. I want my connect amp and connect units to have airplay2 or they are essentially going to be obsolete.
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I am led to believe iOS 11.4 will be released later today allowing Airplay 2 support; assuming Sonos will also release an update to allow this function soon?
I bought a set of Sonos Connect and Sonos Connect Amps knowing that they have airplay 1 but gambled on the proposition that they would be able to do .


What made you think Connect and Connect:Amp are Airplay 1 compatible?
They aren't and I have no reason to believe they are or even will be Airplay 2 compatible.
I have only seen the announcement that Sonos One/PlayBase/Play-5(gen2) are compatible AirPlay-2 controlling Sonos devices... I guess we could probably add to that list any new Sonos devices that they care to release in the future.. (a new PlayBar perhaps?), that’s if the rumours are true?

Having said that though, the Sonos announcement seems to say we will be able to group these AirPlay-2 controlling devices and play the audio to any rooms that they are grouped with... and the audio will all be in sync.

So presumably if Kishore Y, has a Sonos One, for example, he could group it with his Connect/Connect:Amp Rooms and play Airplay sourced audio until his heart's content.

That’s how I read the Sonos announcements shown here ...

https://www.sonos.com/en-gb/airplay

https://blog.sonos.com/en-gb/airplay2-coming/
I am led to believe iOS 11.4 will be released later today allowing Airplay 2 support; assuming Sonos will also release an update to allow this function soon?
I bought a set of Sonos Connect and Sonos Connect Amps knowing that they have airplay 1 but gambled on the proposition that they would be able to do .


What made you think Connect and Connect:Amp are Airplay 1 compatible?
They aren't and I have no reason to believe they are or even will be Airplay 2 compatible.


Yep i stand corrected, i am using my control4 airplay service and it is over-riding my sonos and auto switching.

Before that i used airplay via airport express through the inputs on sonos.

I guess my wish still stands. Airplay on everything is what i want and was hoping for with sonos announcements. I want to trim down this mix of gadgets and as primarily a apple music user, it does not make sense to jump around apps and gadgets.

In reality what i “want” is an 8 room central airplay 2 server all-in-one box with a peq. The closest thing is a russound device which hopefully will get airplay2. Getting my doorbell to come through the same speakers without any more devices would be icing on that cake.
Has anyone been able to setup Sonos with airplay 2 yet. I have updated to iOS 11.4 and tvOS 11.4 and airplay 2 works on those but can’t seem to connect it to the Sonos.
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no Sonos has not released an update with airplay 2 compatibility yet.
only sonos knows when that will happen but they will post on this site when they do tell us
i am looking forward to airplay 2 on sonos one aswell
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So what kind of hardware limitation is preventing airplay 2 on the older play 1s?

I'm really disappointed in this news that its only newer models getting it, if its a hardware problem fair enough but if thats just an excuse to not support older devices well then bye bye Sonos.

Please give me hard evidence on specific internal specs of the older play 1 and what airplay 2 requires.

Thank you
So what kind of hardware limitation is preventing airplay 2 on the older play 1s?

I'm really disappointed in this news that its only newer models getting it, if its a hardware problem fair enough but if thats just an excuse to not support older devices well then bye bye Sonos.

Please give me hard evidence on specific internal specs of the older play 1 and what airplay 2 requires.

Thank you
ledzep1,

Here is a quote from Sonos... “The original Play:1, for example, has about 1/16th the processing power of its modern equivalent, the Sonos One.”

You can read it for yourself here:

https://blog.sonos.com/en-gb/airplay2-coming
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So what kind of hardware limitation is preventing airplay 2 on the older play 1s?

I'm really disappointed in this news that its only newer models getting it, if its a hardware problem fair enough but if thats just an excuse to not support older devices well then bye bye Sonos.

Please give me hard evidence on specific internal specs of the older play 1 and what airplay 2 requires.

Thank you
ledzep1,

Here is a quote from Sonos... “The original Play:1, for example, has about 1/16th the processing power of its modern equivalent, the Sonos One.”

You can read it for yourself here:

https://blog.sonos.com/en-gb/airplay2-coming


Thanks, I have already read that but I want to see the actual specs and requirements for airplay 2, I never buy into this stuff about hardware limitations, I always think its just another, we cant be bothered to support older devices and put time into an update just buy our newer products.

Thanks, I have already read that but I want to see the actual specs and requirements for airplay 2, I never buy into this stuff about hardware limitations, I always think its just another, we cant be bothered to support older devices and put time into an update just buy our newer products.


I'm sorry I don’t have the technical specs or hardware requirements, but I do know that the Sonos One Speaker is far cheaper than the Apple HomePod and that companies like Sonos need to sell their goods to stay in business to support their customers.

Either way, whether you believe Sonos or not, the only way to get access to AirPlay-2 on Sonos will be to own one of their newer products... at least their prices for the Sonos One are very reasonable, by comparison.

I guess we should not expect to get all of today’s current technology on devices we bought some years ago, but Sonos have done a good job at that with their speakers so far, adding voice control, via the (small) purchase of an echo device and now by adding AirPlay 'everywhere' in a Sonos Household by owning just one of their standalone Sonos One Speakers that can be grouped with all Sonos Rooms. I certainly see that as being 'pretty fair' to their customers.
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Thanks, I have already read that but I want to see the actual specs and requirements for airplay 2, I never buy into this stuff about hardware limitations, I always think its just another, we cant be bothered to support older devices and put time into an update just buy our newer products.


I'm sorry I don’t have the technical specs or hardware requirements, but I do know that the Sonos One Speaker is far cheaper than the Apple HomePod and that companies like Sonos need to sell their goods to stay in business to support their customers.

Either way, whether you believe Sonos or not, the only way to get access to AirPlay-2 on Sonos will be to own one of their newer products... at least their prices for the Sonos One are very reasonable, by comparison.

I guess we should not expect to get all of today’s current technology on devices we bought some years ago, but Sonos have done a good job at that with their speakers so far, adding voice control, via the (small) purchase of an echo device and now by adding AirPlay 'everywhere' in a Sonos Household by owning just one of their standalone Sonos One Speakers that can be grouped with all Sonos Rooms. I certainly see that as being 'pretty fair' to their customers.


I get what you say, its just it doesn't seem like that long ago I purchased my play 1s and it seems like Airplay 2 has been in the pipeline for ages so older hardware should of at least been prepared for the future features.

By the way the price difference between the HomePod and Sonos Play 1 (presume sound is similar in Sonos One) is worth the extra cost, the HomePod is a very good sounding speaker, defiantly on another level compared to my play 1s, thats not to say the Play 1s are not great sounding speakers as well, just the higher cost for the HomePod does show a difference.
I'm certainly hoping that Sonos adding AirPlay 2 support means that my Sonos One will appear to my iPhone to be just another wireless speaker, and so any app that allows you to output to AirPlay 2 will let you send its audio to the Sonos One. For example, the BBC iPlayer Radio app, or the Audible app.
Paul1999,

From things I have read so far... it appears that your new Sonos One Speaker will become an AirPlay compatible device and from the Airplay icon in the iOS compatible apps, you will be able to send the audio to the speaker... so that’s BBC IPlayer, YouTube, Netflix, Amazon Video, Podcasts etc. etc. to name but a few of the hundreds of apps available in the Apple Store and elsewhere.


Thanks for the detailed reply! I had not read the Sonos blog post about AirPlay 2, so that was useful. Fingers crossed the update comes out soon.
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Thanks, I have already read that but I want to see the actual specs and requirements for airplay 2, I never buy into this stuff about hardware limitations, I always think its just another, we cant be bothered to support older devices and put time into an update just buy our newer products.


That's certainly been done before by some manufacturers, but if you look at Sonos history of adding new features to their older models, it seems unlikely they would switch gears and suddenly try to push for new sales in this manner. For a recently example, don't look any further then introducing Alexa voice control to all existing speakers, not just the new Sonos One.

Even besides that, it doesn't really make business sense for Sonos to do that. There are customers like you will consider switching systems rather then buying more Sonos products. Especially since Sonos currently doesn't have a replacement model to upgrade to for the playbar and play:3. Even these replacements do come out soon, the price tags probably aren't going to move a lot of people to upgrade just for the sake of airplay 2. Those that would probably isn't any different then those that don't currently have a playbar, but might buy one if it included airplay 2. I just don't think there is much of an advantage here,

From what I've seen, Sonos strategy has never been to try and get existing customers to upgrade their old Sonos stuff. They seem to recognize that it's an investment to customers and do what they can to keep that investment going. Instead, they want you buy Sonos for new zones in your home, and for the new customers who liked what they heard from existing Sonos customers.
"AirPlay 2 works in a similar way. The computing platforms and software architecture in some of the older Sonos players like Play:3 and Play:1 simply don’t have the horsepower to support AirPlay 2. The original Play:1, for example, has about 1/16th the processing power of its modern equivalent, the Sonos One. But by taking advantage of newer Sonos hardware, we’re able to make AirPlay 2 content available throughout the house on speakers old and new."


I don't understand this sentence... Not enough power but "we’re able to make AirPlay 2 content available throughout the house on speakers old and new." .. :? So Will it work with sonosplay:1 or not ? It seems that "Older Sonos speakers will not support AirPlay 2 on their own due to processor limitations, but they can be paired with the Playbase, the Play:5, or the Sonos One to enable AirPlay 2 functionality. A Sonos Play:1 grouped with a Sonos One, for example, will support AirPlay 2." (source from this article : https://www.macrumors.com/2018/04/25/sonos-airplay-2-compatibility/ )

I've been working on retro engineering of the first version of airplay, the CPU consumption is insignificant, I don't think that the sync functionality implemented in airplay 2 require so much CPU use. I think that the CPU PowerQUICC MPC8314VRADDA contained in the play:1 could be able to manage airplay 2 but it has a cost to implement it on this old hardware that sonos don't want to invest... and it allow to sell more new devices 😉
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I asked a while back what was felt to be the reason that Airplay 2 has these requirements. Other than accepting it must be true I don't recall an actual reason. The CPU and RAM in all existing devices manages to support in sync audio across 32 devices so not sure what's so demanding above this for airplay 2.
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"AirPlay 2 works in a similar way. The computing platforms and software architecture in some of the older Sonos players like Play:3 and Play:1 simply don’t have the horsepower to support AirPlay 2. The original Play:1, for example, has about 1/16th the processing power of its modern equivalent, the Sonos One. But by taking advantage of newer Sonos hardware, we’re able to make AirPlay 2 content available throughout the house on speakers old and new."


I don't understand this sentence... Not enough power but "we’re able to make AirPlay 2 content available throughout the house on speakers old and new." .. :? So Will it work with sonosplay:1 or not ? It seems that "Older Sonos speakers will not support AirPlay 2 on their own due to processor limitations, but they can be paired with the Playbase, the Play:5, or the Sonos One to enable AirPlay 2 functionality. A Sonos Play:1 grouped with a Sonos One, for example, will support AirPlay 2." (source from this article : https://www.macrumors.com/2018/04/25/sonos-airplay-2-compatibility/ )


I look at it this way. Every sonos speaker/zone/room can be grouped with another sonos room right? That's basic functionality. It doesn't matter what the source of the music is. However, a play:1 can't listen to airplay 2 sourced music on it's own, but a sonos one can. So once the sonos one gets the music, it can share it (group) with the play:1.



I've been working on retro engineering of the first version of airplay, the CPU consumption is insignificant, I don't think that the sync functionality implemented in airplay 2 require so much CPU use. I think that the CPU PowerQUICC MPC8314VRADDA contained in the play:1 could be able to manage airplay 2 but it has a cost to implement it on this old hardware that sonos don't want to invest... and it allow to sell more new devices ;)


I think you're trying to treat a general document designed for the general public as if it's a technical detailed document. I know the document specifically talks about processing power, but I don't think that necessary means the speed and capability of the cpu only. The issue could very well be with other hardware in the unit, or something else about the CPUs capabilities. Perhaps Sonos isn't giving more details since it will go other the head of many customers and they don't want to really announce the hardware makeup of their units to the public.

In terms of cost to implement, I would image that the software on each type of unit is as similar as can realistically be. In other words, I wouldn't think there would be much additional cost to develop on the older units over developing the new units....but that's pure speculation.

As far as the idea that Sonos is faking the whole thing in order to sell more units, that really doesn't seem to fit Sonos MO. Even if there was no history of Sonos operation to fall back on, I'd argue that airplay2 isn't enough of a feature improvement to sell a new model, and could easily push customers to other competitor products instead. In other words, it's a bad risk that I don't think Sonos would take voluntarily.
Schmurtz

I'm not sure you will find a community user who can answer all your questions with any authority, unless they work for Sonos, or Apple, that is. Even then, I don’t know how you would truly verify their reply.

Here are my own personal thoughts...

The old Airplay v1, used audio that came through/from the Airplay controlling device, such as an iPhone, or iPad etc. The iDevice streamed the audio and had to be connected to the same local network. So you couldn’t start music on your iPhone at your party and then take the phone out the premises and pop down the street, for example, to go buy another crate of beer as the music would stop as the phone lost its local connection.

You could often only transmit the audio to a single device, although there are Apps like WHAALE that allows a user to play an audio source to a maximum of 6 separate Airplay devices in 'manually controlled' sync.

In Airplay-2, the protocol apparently supports either 5.0/5.1 surround audio, or 2.0/2.1 channel stereo.

The iDevice itself is possibly now a 'simple controller' (remote) and the AirPlay speaker/device itself manages the audio connection direct and it’s subsequent distribution to other speakers in perfect sync with each other and with any playing video on the iDevice controller. I assume this is where and why the higher hardware requirement is needed.

It means though we can perhaps pop out to the store with our phones to buy that other crate of beer... the audio will still continue to play in sync with video on screen.

This is just my personal early understanding, but the Sonos Blog describes the old Play:1 as having 1/16th of the power of the Sonos One ... that sounds to me like the legacy speaker was just not upto the job of being an AirPlay controller to sync with video and distribute audio to other Sonos Rooms, but by itself it has enough power to play a stereo audio AirPlay source received from a more powerful device like the Sonos One.
I asked a while back what was felt to be the reason that Airplay 2 has these requirements. Other than accepting it must be true I don't recall an actual reason. The CPU and RAM in all existing devices manages to support in sync audio across 32 devices so not sure what's so demanding above this for airplay 2.
Since iOS11 compatibility with 64-bit is mandatory (extends to Airplay2 also), and 'first generation' units were shipped with 32-bit chipsets built in.

https://developer.apple.com/library/content/qa/qa1971/_index.html
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First generation units of what shipped with 32bit chipsets? And source.
If you're suggesting it's because the Play 1, PlayBar etc. have 32 bit chipsets then I don't believe that to be the case and if it were, Sonos could say that the chipsets were incompatible. Incontravertable and less woolly than the 1/16 the power reason.
In fact, if that were the case then i assume Sonos couldn't have done the work many claim they must have done in trying their best to get it working if it were as black and white as a 32bit/64bit issue.