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411 replies

Chris
Userlevel 7
Badge +22
dNexusb - I agree that the vast majority of voice control is useless. Siri, Alexa etc. are great building blocks but usefulness in any meaningful way in peoples lives is a good ways off. Too many different protocols for voice control and automation right now as everyone is jockeying for position in the market. Alexa being less proprietary seems to be more on the right track then most.
Respect the Queue (1)Move (2)Beam (1)ARC (1)SonosOne (1)Playbar (4)Play5 (4)Play1 (3)Play3 (1)Port (2)Connect (1)Connect:Amp (3)Sonos Amp (1)Sub + (9) Echo + Smartthings
D
Fun reading about all the people here NOT using the windows stuff talking about windows stuff...
And all the English speaking people talking about how awsome voice controll is gonna be...

As someone not living in US or a english speaking country (speaking english fine though), I can tell you that all voice controll up until now (Siri, google now, Cortana, Alexa) is utter crap outside of the US.

All we (people who DO use the windows stuff) want, is a modern, touch friendly, multi search interface on oure modern, touch friendly windows PC's 🙂
jgatie
http://mspoweruser.com/amazon-working-on-a-new-windows-app/

From the same website that reported the Phish app was made by Sonos and soon to be released, with the same vague unattributed quotes from anonymous customer support reps who are "reported to have said"? 😃 Yeah, that's a definitive statement if I ever heard one. Much more definitive than if a company comes right out and says they aren't doing something.

Besides, this is the Amazon Store shopping app. It has nothing at all to do with Alexa, which is voice controlled (as Sonos will soon be), and thus has no need for a new Windows app (hence the basic Web based interface for Alexa).
E
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http://mspoweruser.com/amazon-working-on-a-new-windows-app/
jgatie
Here's the way I see it (all opinion, no inside info). Voice is coming, and it will be the default control interface for things like "Play some Black Eyed Peas", "Play my post-punk apocalyptic playlist" or "Play BBC 5 radio". Mobile apps will be the secondary controller, used for things like adding to playlists, adding to favorites, specific searches, or things more complicated than "Play XYZ.". The PC controller will be the tertiary controller, for things like adding URLs for customs stations, adding music services, and other Settings/Setup things. Nobody needs a modern customized UI for tertiary Settings/Setup. Indeed, the Alexa app on iOS/Android is a minimal basic settings/reporting functions list with a very utilitarian look, because 95% of the time you aren't using it, you are using voice. Alexa on the PC is just a webpage mimicking the same minimalist Alexa iOS/Android app. So similar to Amazon, I just don't see Sonos spending the money on a new modern UI for something which will soon be a tertiary controller.
Ken_Griffiths
One other thing that I believe is very important to mention here too, is Sonos seem to do there very best to continue to support even the now rather old CR100 hardware controllers, so that they can still be used today.

The company do their very best to take their older existing customers with them, albeit those customers may not get to see the new developments like 'Trueplay Tuning' for example. They don't just abandon the existing customer, or try to lose those people entirely.

Not every company will try to think that way... They do all they can to keep the existing customer onboard.

My recommendation really is don't simply abandon & sell your entire Sonos system, but get yourself a cheap alternative iOS/Android mobile/tablet controller to 'compliment' what you have already.

I should add that whilst Android has some additional features, that the Sonos Trueplay feature I mentioned, is currently only supported by iOS. The reason for that, I believe, is Android is an open platform, used on lots of different branded hardware devices and some in-built microphones were unable to satisfy the Trueplay requirements. I think however that could change in the future. I guess that too shows you cannot please everyone, but there are often some valid reasons for the decisions made by Sonos.

I can see similar reasons for the company beginning to move away from the Desktop PC/Mac, towards the Mobile/Tablet market. No doubt the often mentioned added Voice Control will also bring a further dimension to these things in the future. Sonos has expressed a wish to keep existing customers onboard with that development too.
Ken_Griffiths
el_fal ... of course those figures represent the mobile market. You need to get your head around the fact that the Sonos Controller development has altered and is now aimed at the mobile market and the company has chosen the two biggest MOBILE platforms... Android and iOS. You are the one not grasping the situation here.

Really, if I was researching and going out to buy my Sonos Wireless Multiroom Home Audio System today... My aim would be to have a newish Android or Apple mobile or tablet to control it all, not a Windows PC, nor even a MAC PC, nor a CR100/200 controller (even though they are all supported to some lesser degree) .. I would have looked to see where Sonos were aiming their present research and development.

No doubt in the months/years ahead some older versions of both iOS and Android will fall by the wayside for development too and I will have to replace my iPhone 5 perhaps for some later model... We all just have to move with the times.

Hence the mobile market statistics shown are entirely relevant... Think mobile/tablet market and you might see the 'penny drop'.
R
Room13,
If you look at my last screenshot... I can understand why they have taken that decision.
"Poster links to screenshot of Windows Mobile low sales stats"

Thank you for your reply KG- but it is almost pavlovian isn't it- someone mentions their desire for Sonos to (re)consider developing a Windows UWP app for their PC, asks for this not to be confused with Windows Mobile.... and someone responds with a comment on Windows Mobile low sales.

A number of companies have recently announced their decision to switch producing from Android tablets to W10 2in1s, which seem to be gaining momentum among the 350 million active window devices so far. The idea that anything is fixed- especially where tech is concerned is not necessarily the best position to hold.

Anyway, it remains *one* factor in my future buying decisions. I might be back on this community forum if I have any questions on Sonos- but I won't be back on this thread- not including you KG- but this thread is quite toxic.
E
Badge
Ken, those figures refer to mobile market segment. I think you'll find desktop and 2 in 1 devices quite different and quoted in my previous responses and I cited an example device to boot.

As I, room13 and others keep pointing out, you keep referring back to smart phones.

If you don't understand the differences, PM me and I'll take you through it.
jgatie
Is the horse breathing yet?

That horse quit breathing years ago.
jgatie
So how's about you stop focusing on me and my purchases, and start putting your passion into helping the company you love so cleary make a difference.



You just don't get it, do you? We don't think the software needs to be made better, especially when Sonos is transitioning to voice. Not everybody thinks the way you do, especially when you seem to have found a solution more to your liking and yet, here you still are. We find it utterly baffling that you think Sonos is going to formerly announce no UWP app is being made, then after a brilliantly enlightening series of posts from one doggedly determined poster, coupled with a decidedly idle threat to move to Denon and sell your Sonos on e-bay; that they are going to suddenly go back and reassess their corporate road map. It's crazy! Please, do us and yourself a favor - Accept their word that no UWP app is coming. Sonos hardly ever makes definitive statements on their roadmap, but this is one and when they make a public announcement, it is forged in steel, and I've never seen them change their mind.

As I said, life is short. Go enjoy your Denon!
Ken_Griffiths
Room13,

Sonos 'Reps' monitoring 'everything' including sales etc, have taken notice of the majority, that's why there are tablet (tent) apps already on iOS and Android that look similar to the screenshots I have posted below...

It's just the case that such Sonos app development is not on Windows PC/Surface or WM...probably because Sonos after many months of careful research/consultation and consideration decided to halt the WM development... as announced by a Sonos 'Rep' on this forum.

If you look at my last screenshot... I can understand why they have taken that decision.

This protest at the Sonos Windows development for 'Surface' or any other Windows Tablet/PC in many respects, seems rather late .. hence the references here to horses (dead or alive) and the words 'flogging' and 'bolted' just keep popping up in the thread.
R
I am soon buying a new house and am investigating and looking at investing in a sound system and also upgrading a music streaming service to premium. So I am disappointed that both the leading Wi-fi speaker speaker maker and the leading music streaming service have decided not to have a Windows 10 UWP (In the case of the latter, partly because they have recently revealed they have signed an exclusive with Sony/Playstation 4)

I have a couple of Windows 10 touchscreens 2in1s and would love to easily operate a Sonos UWP whilst they are in tent mode- good for parties etc. The lack of UWP- and no future intentions to create one from Sonos- is therefore *one* of the factors that I will have to consider when weighing up my options on what to buy. Other factors- on the plus side for Sonos- sound quality, ease of use, supported accessories from other manufacturers. Other factors- on the minus side- lack of hi-res support (although whether it makes a *real* difference is something I want to investigate), and also lack of support for dts etc which might mean going down a Dolby Atmos Home cinema route for playing Ultra HD Blurays, although perhaps adding additional speakers elsewhere in the house.

Anyway my 2p worth for the attention and consideration of Sonos reps monitoring this board (i.e. no insulting/sarcastic replies needed from posters saying there will *never* be a UWP Sonos app, or who want to confuse my needs by mentioning Windows Mobile low sales stats, etc.)
Stuart_W
Userlevel 7
Badge +22
Is the horse breathing yet?
Arc + Sub (Gen 1) + 2 x Play 1/ Stereo Play 3s/ Era 100 Stereo in Kitchen, One Stereo in Bedroom, SL One in Study, Play 1in Bathroom & Conservatory
E
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Guys, you're so focused on that fact to have bought something else, you're losing trail of the discussion.

Simply put; there are more features on the Denon kit and it's cheaper.

Hardware refresh is not something Sonos can change quickly, development cycles being years for hardware.

Price, questionable, but I doubt there is much room for Sonos to compete with.

Where there is opportunity for differentiation however, is in the user experience of the software, the point of this thread.

So how's about you stop focusing on me and my purchases, and start putting your passion into helping the company you love so cleary make a difference.

I do find it interesting that the other raging topic on the controllers forums is around the Spotify connect, which covers much of the same points as I lost here (I.e. Make the software better to use!).
Ken_Griffiths
el_fal

In one breath you describe Denon products as being better and cheaper and yet you still go out to a store to pick up a Sonos Play-5, just to use its Aux line-in for playing audio offline ... You are not making any sense to anyone here. If you believe Denon is better and it has line-in and Bluetooth, why on earth did you choose the Sonos Play-5 option?

You claim you want to sell all your Sonos equipment on eBay-UK, mainly because Sonos have chosen to concentrate development of their 'remote' controller on iOS and Android platforms instead of Windows, but you won't consider buying a different controller, even though that would be 'far better value' than eventually replacing your main home audio system with Denon, who still have their app in the development stage?

You really seem quite indecisive and need to look a bit more carefully perhaps at some of your choices, as they certainly do not appear to be ones that I would choose to follow.

Sonos have made their viewpoint known in relation to some of their future development strategy at this moment in time and whilst we all know things can change, we have to all learn to accept and go along with those decisions. Your protest at the Windows desktop development of their controller, has undoubtedly been noted. I can't say it has drummed up any degree of overwhelming support here. It appears therefore, that your views, are clearly in the minority.

I personally have moved away from Windows and chosen to follow the Sonos development, both on Android and iOS (more recently). Clearly you have not made that choice and are just 'digging in your heels' and trying to stick, perhaps 'loyally', with the Windows platform for controlling your speakers.

So you seem to have reached a stage where you either 'jump ship' and begin your Sonos eBay sale (don't forget to send me the sales link) or you accept the direction that Sonos have decided to go.

My decision would be not to waste my money selling my much loved existing Sonos equipment for less than I paid for it and replacing it all again with Denon, all for the sake of simply buying an Android or iOS controller and moving away from the Windows platform. Loyalty is actually holding you back.

By the way I have two Windows PC's in my home, but I very rarely use the Sonos Desktop Controller, as I do find the small mobile hand-held controllers far more convenient and accessible.

It seems sensible to me that Sonos have decided to concentrate their current development towards the smart mobile arena and they have now selected the two most widely-used mobile platforms iOS and Android. Furthermore they have made the choice to give away their controller software to the customer, free of charge and ad-free, that's quite a big step for a company that once sold its own CR100/200 hardware controllers.

I really don't see any reason to moan about the halted development of the Windows platform, Sonos is just providing its services for the 'majority' of its customers.
E
Badge
Urgh. OK, I have been trying desperately to keep it on track about the app as it is l a Sonos forum, for the betterment of Sonos customers.

Truth be told, yes the Denon is probably better IMHO. Setup is trickier, but sound quality is richer, the equivalent speakers are cheaper, aux in and Bluetooth across the board.

For guests, I could play direct from Spotify as a device on my network, allowing me to use the nicer interface.

Downsides are the lack of an equivalent sound bar and sub (my future plans).

Now, as Sonos are locked in a legal battle with Denon re these, I really didn't want to post this to THEIR forum, but you seem unable to concentrate on the subject - the improvement of the desktop app.

I actually went to the store to pick up a play 5 for offline play for the aux in (something I also reached on this forum).

Now I fear the rest of the thread will now be taken up with you trying to rebuke this post. I'm happy to answer your questions in private, so would you kindly keep on subject on here? Thanks.
jgatie
So your post that said Denon was superior, that you are "moving on" and your Sonos will be on e-bay UK was an exaggeration. Thanks for clarifying what we already knew.

To all you folks contemplating Denon . . . the above Windows user is unable to fully abandon Sonos for Denon, even after stating how much "superior" the Denon gear is, and being told Denon is going to support his desired OS version. Point Sonos!
E
Badge
Geez man let it go. I've explained I've still got both sets of kit at the minute. I imagine you think it's in a box on my front porch with a sign saying "free to good home" the way you're going on.

And yes, a you ask so nicely, I don't want to walk away after 4 years. I did have plans to expand my home cinema, and don't want to abandon them either.

But, I'm at a cross roads where the way I enjoy this product seems to be getting left behind and I don't see anything wrong with letting them know I think they've made the wrong decision.
jgatie
Windows Phone, Windows Desktop, who cares? They aren't making one! But wow, that Denon must be just terrible to have you back here pining for Sonos to make you a Windows app. It's kind of embarrassing.
E
Badge
Hi jgatie, I'll refer you back to my post #282 which I believe covers that off.

Happy to debate the finer points of windows phone/mobile market share with you in private if you wish.

I'll repeat, however, my posts have been about the desktop app. You keep dragging it onto mobile, so I'm going to assume now you're either not reading posts, not understanding, or trolling.

In the meantime, thanks for the bump!
jgatie
So what is the point of having a customer feedback portal and community if not to question those decisions or request features?



The time for customer feedback was before the decision. It's your decision now to keep what you have, or move on. You have repeatedly told this forum that you have moved on, so why would you waste the energy here if you are so satisfied with your Denon? You can't see the basic logic in that question? Quite frankly, since you keep posting here, any normal person would assume the praise you have for Denon is all BS, and you would switch back to Sonos in a heartbeat if you could. If that is what you mean by helping people with their purchasing decisions, then have at it. It will only convince people to buy Sonos, and I'm sure Sonos has no fear of you chasing away the Windows Phone users (all 3 of them).
E
Badge
Yes, I was referring to the Sonos update of the controller. Where a kindle/ipad app updates as they are pushed out, the desktop app checks for updates when launched. Precisely the moment you want to you it!

With regards to trajectories, all market trackers this year point to quite the opposite. In fact, the 2 in 1 devices are the only growing market segment. I have 3 on the house (one is work)

One such example article here: http://www.techradar.com/news/mobile-computing/tablets/gloomy-outlook-for-tablets-but-windows-2-in-1-devices-will-make-it-big-1316537
ratty
Universal search could be useful, I'll grant you.

'Apple update'? I don't follow. If you mean 'Sonos update' don't forget that most of the time the firmware also has to update in step. It's bad enough when prompted updates aren't sufficiently scrutinised by the user before clicking 'OK'. The idea of the whole process being entirely automatic would only increase the support calls...

Sonos must have assessed the market trajectories for Win10 mobile and tablet, and decided they would decline into insignificance. The former certainly appears to be living up to expectations.
E
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Yes. For me there are 4 key areas;

- ui refresh; to match look and feel of other apps and the website.
- universal search; I shouldn't have to explain my music services to my guests, not they are looking for a song in "albums"
- touch support; scroll the lists/libraries. Drag a song to it's position in the queue
- auto/background updates; it feels everytime I boot it up recently there's another Apple update (which I don't even use)

I'd like to throw my surface to a guest without the type cover and let them select their songs.

Suppose the device was this; https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00YCX7SGU/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1469381313&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65

The current desktop app just cannot hack it.
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