The Sonos Brexit and pragmatic ways past it - ADVANCED APPROACHES

K

A little over a week ago, I started a thread to engage with like minded people here: those that felt the way I did, as explained in my opening post there. That thread was titled: “The Sonos Brexit and pragmatic ways past it” and I intended that to be the last thread I open on this site.

A link to that thread:

https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/the-sonos-brexit-and-pragmatic-ways-past-it-6836056

That thread has grown beyond expectations. While everyone on it has contributed to keep it profanity free and largely rant free, with an occasional nudge by @Edward R in that effort, just by virtue of its length, it has become unwieldy as all long threads become. And it has many days to run, because the Sonos Brexit event, and the release of detailed information about it by Sonos, are both at least three months away.

I therefore thought that it made sense to break my promise to myself - No More Threads - and make just this one exception to it, by opening this thread. It is meant to discuss such approaches and options that may be employed by advanced users that are comfortable going well beyond plug and play options in pursuit of ways past this Sonos Brexit with or without incorporating any Sonos product in it. The original thread linked above may then be used for options that probably a majority of Sonos users will be able to employ - the plug and play kind of options towards the same objective. Which are those that employ off the shelf third party devices that are self contained, such as Echo Dots as an example, where the only wiring, if needed, is external - a stereo wire running between Sonos and non Sonos devices. And which do not involve any coding or any attempt to get under the Sonos hood. Or which involve server like devices that need a complex set up to get it to work with Sonos. In brief, something that non geeks - and I am one of those - will be able to cope with, belong to the original thread, while the complex options belong to this thread, as its title suggests.

There is no set in stone dividing line between the two approaches and none is needed. I am sure that community judgement can be relied on to keep the two threads distinct, linked by a common ethos, in a way that both end up being more useful than one thread will be.

I will visit this thread, but here I do not expect to further any discussion forward significantly - that will be beyond my abilities. So, lurking mode here, most if not all of the time. And if I find anything useful here that makes sense to the original thread, I will steal with no compunctions!

So, well before Sonos forks out legacy and modern systems into two, a fork to serve all that will be effected by the Sonos fork.

I apologies for the clunky title, which is an outcome of the original thread being blessed with a clunky one.

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119 replies

Ryan S
Userlevel 7
Badge +26

I PM’ed Ryan about this over 8 hrs ago … nothing in return

 

It’s 7:30 a.m. in Santa Barbara, California. :slight_smile:

I have to sleep sometimes…. :) I restored the posts a couple hours ago, just circling back here to let you know. 

Mark good posts by pressing the like button, and select the best answer on questions you've asked to help others find solutions.
C
Userlevel 6
Badge +14

I’ve just finished setting up a O2 Joggler touchscreen device:

(stock image as I can’t access my smartphone!)

 

 

This provides a controller for Logitech Media Server (also installed on the Joggler) which displays the various player/speakers (including Sonos, of course) in my system.

O2 Joggler - rare as hens’ teeth.  Price varies between 15-75 USD when available on ebay

Usb memory stick - 5 USD

Software - free

I haven’t attached the Flirc IR dongle as yet which adds remote control of the touchscreen.  

C
Userlevel 6
Badge +14

LMS streaming Qobuz album to Google Nest Hub  (sorry about the quality!):

 

C
Userlevel 6
Badge +14

@arcadelt : My internet provider isn't talking of any event in May 2020.

Trust me, it will happen when you least expect it and when it is most inconvenient. Without the Internet, not only will the voice assistant fail, but you will even not be able to use the Alexa app to control anything. Anyway, as I said, better to be prepared, so unplug your Internet and see how the system holds up.

Not to me it wouldn’t!   Routers on UPS, each has an Echo attached … so, only in the very unlikely event that both ISps go down at the same time would there be silence  

K

My problem with Darko is typified in this video - he will keep 5 things, one on top of each other that are basically the same device, say that each one is better than the one below it, and not do a single level matched blind test to back up his subjective opinions. While I could not hear any difference in my Connect compared to a Marantz KI Signature SACD player, back in 2011, which also had a DAC in it that had many alpha numeric characters in its description in the manual. Neither could I hear what a USD 1500 Musical Fidelity DAC did in my system, that weighed more and was larger than most HiFi amplifiers, and even had a couple of valves in. And feet that turned from red to green to tell you when the valves had come to operating temperatures! All this, in my audiophile past life, and it was that Tube DAC that caused my “enough of this nonsense” moment.

So all that he offers is what the HiFi magazines did before I stopped reading them - information about what is available in the market.

S

All set up and running fine, with a link to the detailed explanation:

https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/the-sonos-brexit-and-pragmatic-ways-past-it-6836056/index22.html#post16407760

I really like this approach and I have tried to replicate this in my system.  All was working fine, mymedia app established, USB stick successfully mounted, playing music on Echo from Pi4 nicely via WiFi.

I then  tried to connect the Pi to my Sonos system via Ethernet.  As soon as the ethernet cable was inserted into my Play 1, the WiFi connection on the Pi4 dropped.  I’ve done various bits of googling but I can’t see an obvious fix (and even if I had found an obvious one, I would struggle to implement is as a Pi newbie).

Any thoughts anyone please - I’m so close!

bockersjv
Userlevel 7
Badge +21

I built a Pi based Nas drive and this has started me thinking about many other Pi projects including this one.

chicks

^^^ “The Primo doesn’t have that last ounce of liquidity”.   LMAO.  Stopped viewing the video at that point.  These audiophile reviewers are quite amusing.

chickentender

Likely a very good place for those with experience or interest to share thoughts about more complex, hybrid and varied solutions and approaches including the like of  Raspberry Pi or Roon and other similar, varied setups as incorporated with Sonos (or even not). I’d like to hear any interested chime in and sound off as needed/wanted.

C
Userlevel 6
Badge +14

@castalla ; Yes, but does it survive loss of internet?:laughing:

Seriously though, leaving aside this closed/open system thing, what does it do that Echo+mymedia cannot? Or, in a more elegant way?

The more I use mymedia - which is working fine, to the extent that I think I will treat myself to an Echo Show 8 at the present discounted price - the more I see Raspberry making sense as a small box tucked away in WiFi range, always on via a USB charger so it cannot be pulling a lot of electricity, allowing the Echo Show 5/8 to remain open to streaming from NAS as well as from streaming services with album art. Using the desktop Mac works fine, but is a little clunky to use seeing that it is often left with the lid down when not in use.

 

Because the LMS server and the NAS are on internal network then an internet down won’t affect media library function (in fact my ‘NAS’ is actually just a usb stick on the router - could just as easy be a real NAS).  I must admit I don’t use the local music much anymore, but others have pretty complicated setups with fancy tagging, playlists, etc.

Once you ‘crack’ the NAS mount on the pi (which should be straightforward in your case), install the mymedia program, that’s basically it.  Switch on and forget.  (setting up the Pi does involve using SSH (PuTTy, or mac equivalent) and a bit of typing commands in the Pi terminal.

chickentender

Seeing as the previous thread became quite large I thought I’d simply post my janky little diagram of how I’ve incorporated a Bluesound Node 2i into a bit of hybrid setup, that post being buried amongst the pages. I auditioned and thought about different devices and paths forward and in the end a “legacy” system seemed the right choice for me given the information we now have.

In my main listening area the Bluesound Node 2i is the primary streamer and also receives audio via optical input from my smart tv (both for music as well as a soundbar alternative as i’ve never care much for soundbars and like simplicity). The analog output from the Node is fed to my receiver AUX, and the receivers output is fed to my now-legacy Sonos Connect via Tape-out and looped back to it’s Tape monitor. My Connect is now set to fixed-volume, allow all level change to be done via the Node (or the receiver if need be) and the audio can then be sent to the rest of my Sonos wireless zones in perfect sync with the main when I flip the Tape-Monitor switch on the receiver. This also allows me to send my turntables audio out to Sonos in the same manner, without needing to have the Connect in-line with the turntable itself. I only use the Sonos controller to set speaker groups and room leveling in this case, and the Node 2i (or turntable) is in control of the content and master volume. I can also just use the Sonos controller by itself for everything if I like (and I do) for the time being and into the future for as long as my streaming services used remain working within the legacy environment. If one of the them doesn’t in the future, it’ll be no great inconvenience to simply stream from the Node 2i instead.

I also want to add that using the Node 2i opens up the ability to send audio via Bluetooth and Airplay2 (the latter I could already use if sending to my single Sonos One in the kitchen). It supports aptX but I currently have no aptX capable devices but I’m sure I will whenever I next replace my phone. Regardless the point being that I recently started using Qobuz for my main streaming and the desktop app experience for Qobuz is outstanding, second only to Roon. That desktop app allows for Bluetooth “exclusive” modes (Airplay in the same manner) which bypasses the computer’s kernel mix and provides direct audio from the application without any computer system noises which is wonderful as well as sounding better. Just wanted to share that because I’ve found the Qobuz desktop experience to be so wonderful but wouldn’t have used it much otherwise. 

That’s enough description. Crappy little diagram is attached, if it helps anyone else out there. Would love to hear about other alternative/hybrid setups for “moving on” within the legacy announcements (preferably without rants or complaining or ruminating otherwise about the situation - that’s well covered, with good cause, elsewhere).

 

 

melvimbe

Just a comment on the above diagram.. for this situation, you could have done a trade of the Connect for a Sonos Amp, which looks to be cheaper than the Node 2i after trade in discount. The amp could connect to your TV with optical and your phono through RCAs (assuming your player doesn’t need preamp).  You could also get rid of the receiver, as the amp can power those.  I’m not trying to knock your solution as it make sense if hi rez, bluetooth or something else bluesound can offer is important to you.  Just pointing out an alternative.

Is Quboz better through bluetooth over directly streaming to a Sonos device?

Danny
chickentender

@melvimbe - incidentally, for any interested in the Sonos Amp configuration you mentioned, does the new Sonos Amp support IR Learning for volume control via remote, or are you limited to app control? (That was one of the features of the Node 2i that drew me to it over Connect in the end for my setup.)

 

Edit - I answered my own question. I see that it DOES support IR learning, which is great. (In going back over the Amp specs I’m reminded how much is missing that I expected to find/looked forward to in the Port when it was announced/release, particularly HDMI ARC.)

Nonetheless, for my part, given the support announcement (and bent of this particular thread for that matter) I’m happier to not have the Amp, though a simplistic and elegant setup in many ways, as part of my setup if only for the lack of options thererin that a receiver otherwise supplies (putting aside my love of many old analog receivers specifically)…
But moreso I am not in love now with the idea of a Sonos component becoming even more integral to my entire audio setup for for future-proofing reasons. I’m much more comfortable with Sonos remaining in a supporting role rather than a front-and-center one. 

K

With streaming services more and more the music source, is this thread a good place to discuss their sound quality differences - real or perceived?

K

Ditto for bluetooth in general?

melvimbe

But moreso I am not in love now with the idea of a Sonos component becoming even more integral to my entire audio setup for for future-proofing reasons. I’m much more comfortable with Sonos remaining in a supporting role rather than a front-and-center one. 

 

Just my opinion, but I’m not that comfortable with bluesound, due to the age and size of the company and the fact that they are currently facing a lawsuit from Sonos.  I understand why people have concerns about investing in Sonos, but for those that want to drop reliance on Sonos, I would be pushing more towards an Amazon or Google solution.  Besides the size of the companies involved, you’re just not investing that much for it to matter too much.

Danny
K

On the other hand, this may well be an opportunity for some to return to classic HiFi, even to valve amps, tubes rolling and all. With sterile looking smart front ends that are cheap, hidden away like a poor relative that is in residence! The HiFi may be of different types based on the room. The living room one may have lots of eye candy to impress the hell out of every one, the bedroom one a lot more subtle. 

All integrated in some way for multi room music play when needed, and with a server based solution for Nas sourced music in all rooms. 

C
Userlevel 6
Badge +14

This give you album art for Nas play? My echo show 5 looks very similar, but not for Nas play, it does not do that.

Do you mean the Joggler?  Yes, album art displays (as does streaming metadata, eg. radio streams such as NDR1.

The underlying software is called JiveLite/Squeezeplay - similar solutions are available using raspberry pis and a 7’’ screen.

 

K

Success!!! thanks largely to @castalla - all I did was not give up:-). Highly appreciated, the day into one long night effort.

So now, via the mymedia solution, I have my 19637 NAS tracks made available for the first time to Echos via voice command play, with album art where the Echo Show 5 is present. And wired as it is to the Line In of the Connect Amp, this can continue until the Sonos hardware dies. This is something I ended up exploring only because of the Sonos legacy event and will give the NAS a new lease of life; NAS supplied playlists also won't miss volume normalisation as much as streaming service often do. So, a plus for the Sonos decision in an unexpected way.

At USD 5 a year, it is a bargain, this solution.

I have to admit it took quite some playing around to get it to work, and I can't recollect all I did in the process to various settings. It will mean leaving the Mac out of sleep mode when the music is playing, but will not need any other interaction with it for music to play. At some time I will see if I use this enough to justify a leap into the unknown that is the Raspberry to take the Mac out of the loop completely.

What remains to be seen is what happens if two Echo Shows are grouped, wired to Sonos Line In jacks, and one is asked to start playing from the NAS - will the other one also show artwork? And more important, before the artwork question - will two Echos playing in multi group mode play this source? I have my doubts. Even so, for little money, this is a good solution for single zone play.

I will leave with a picture, of Echo Show 5 playing an album from the NAS, with album art, commanded to start play via voice command, through Sonos Line In. A very neat solution that needs Sonos for just amplification.

 

K

All set up and running fine, with a link to the detailed explanation:

https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/the-sonos-brexit-and-pragmatic-ways-past-it-6836056/index22.html#post16407760

C
Userlevel 6
Badge +14

Here’s the Show 5 playing an album from my NAS:

 

 

(Any idea how to get rid of the Try ‘’ Echo ...’’ line ? )

K

Lol. Nope, there isn't at this time and it irritates the hell out of a lot of users.

But that IS cool. I downloaded the mymedia thing to experiment seeing how it works to stream music from my iTunes library that is on my Mac - not a good long term solution, but just as proof of concept, and it is showing some error in indexing the playlists, that I need to get to grips with when I have the time.

K

I downloaded mymedia to my Mac to stream music from the Mac as just proof of concept. It shows some error in iTunes library indexing that I need to address. This artwork for local libraries working on the Show IS cool and may even encourage me to learn Raspberry, if I can get the proof to work.

K

And the spam filter has struck again.

C
Userlevel 6
Badge +14

I PM’ed Ryan about this over 8 hrs ago … nothing in return

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