Sonos contributing to electronic waste

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114 replies

lewisc
Userlevel 4
Badge +9

Interesting article by The Verge here about Sonos' sustainability. Seems like it's an even split between the public caring / not

 

https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/30/21042871/sonos-recycle-mode-trade-up-program-controversy

Authorised Sonos Installer
melvimbe

Total capitalism here, they need to sell units for shareholders...I’m reading media posts on how great it is SONOS are offering to recycle, but looking at the ‘trade-up’ they’d rather you drop it at any electronic recycling (typically in the UK that’s the local tip) as it’s cheaper than returning to SONOS  … it’s such a scam; very very disappointed with the ethics here.

 

 

As stated in the post above you, recycling locally is better for the environment then shipping it elsewhere to be recycled.  And you can ship it to Sonos if you wish.

 

These units aren’t even that old, my Play 5 was registered in 2017 and is on the ‘trade-up’ list, so why would I scrap that?! If I wanted Alexa support I’d just by the little plug-in for >£20 etc. 

 

 

  The trade-up program is optional.  If you’re happy with your play:5 then keep it.

 

It’s a company under threat from ever increasing competition on the smart speaker market that has clearly got to the bottom of the barrel to increase unit sales.

 

I suppose it’s subjective regarding what marketing methods are ‘bottom of the barrel’ or not.  Sonos did release it’s Q3 financial statements recently and it does looks like sales are moving in the right direction.

 

https://variety.com/2019/digital/news/sonos-fiscal-q3-2019-earnings-1203295731/

Danny
D

Total capitalism here, they need to sell units for shareholders...I’m reading media posts on how great it is SONOS are offering to recycle, but looking at the ‘trade-up’ they’d rather you drop it at any electronic recycling (typically in the UK that’s the local tip) as it’s cheaper than returning to SONOS  … it’s such a scam; very very disappointed with the ethics here.

These units aren’t even that old, my Play 5 was registered in 2017 and is on the ‘trade-up’ list, so why would I scrap that?! If I wanted Alexa support I’d just by the little plug-in for >£20 etc. 

It’s a company under threat from ever increasing competition on the smart speaker market that has clearly got to the bottom of the barrel to increase unit sales.

 

buzz

I’ll agree that as a species, humans create too much waste and “latest technology” seems to be accelerating this waste generation. But, here we are. Should we stop creating new technologies and continue using the current technologies or revert to older technologies that could be dragged out of attics and basements? Would this old technology still be operational? While there are some outliers, most consumer electronics gets into very serious component failure in the 15-20 year range. Consumers are reluctant to spend amounts approaching the cost of new replacements when repairing older, usually less functional, products. Further, one can completely resolve a failure only to be facing a different, unrelated, failure a short time later.

In my opinion, SONOS is attempting to create a more responsible path forward.

Shipping units back to SONOS is one option, but why spend the resources boxing up, then shipping the units to SONOS? Local recycle is kinder to the environment.

A

…..maybe I’ll experiment with my firewall settings to stop Sonos form upgrading but keep controller communication and music streaming going..

No need to experiment - there was a very good document kindly created by someone here, which detailed how to go about things. It was for v8.4, but the basic principles still apply. If you can’t find it, I have a copy that i can send you.

BjornO
Userlevel 1
Badge +1

I have currently three items on their ‘trade in list’, but I would rather they just gave me the 30% off new products than bricking the old ones, which I suspect they’ll do soon enough anyway. I already ‘lost’ 3 ‘remotes’ when they stopped supporting android 4.2, but I also have 6 Play:1’s that I suspect is next on the list.. I ‘d hope they would let people keep playing systems on old versions, maybe I’ll experiment with my firewall settings to stop Sonos form upgrading but keep controller communication and music streaming going.. 

I have no need for Apple Airplay or cringy voice control..

My fondness of Sonos is falling..

Bjorn E./Norway
jgatie

Are financial reasons any less valid than technical reasons? 

Absolutely not. It’s just a recurrent theme on the forum that removal of support for older devices is somehow inevitable for technical reasons, when it’s not.

(I was amused to be offered a trade in discount for a Connect:Amp that I bought at retail less than 18 months ago. Uhm … no thanks. I can understand the argument for the older ZP devices, however.)

 

I would say technical and financial, for the very reasons you state.  Technically, they cannot keep up with the current functions.  Financially, it makes no sense to maintain multiple code bases for a dwindling amount of users who by very definition (frozen to one release) will be unlikely to purchase more units.  

pwt
Userlevel 7
Badge +20

Are financial reasons any less valid than technical reasons? 

Absolutely not. It’s just a recurrent theme on the forum that removal of support for older devices is somehow inevitable for technical reasons, when it’s not.

(I was amused to be offered a trade in discount for a Connect:Amp that I bought at retail less than 18 months ago. Uhm … no thanks. I can understand the argument for the older ZP devices, however.)

4 x P:5 | Sub | 4 x P:1 | 3 x Connect | 2 x Boost | Connect:Amp | 2 x One | Amp | Move | Port
jgatie

Are financial reasons any less valid than technical reasons?  Should a company not strive to make a profit? 

pwt
Userlevel 7
Badge +20

People would be better off selling their older gear on eBay, assuming it’s functional. They’ll get more than the discount offered by Sonos, and someone else will get to enjoy the older device.

But for how long?  The amount of memory in the ZP80 and ZP100 is so small it is inevitable that at some point Sonos will no longer be able to maintain compatibility with the current system.  I don’t know if that point will come in 6 months, 2 years. 5 years or whenever, but come it will.  A ZP80 would need to be a virtual giveaway for me to purchase one.

This is a digression, but there is no hard technical reason why Sonos needs to stop supporting (as in ‘render non-functional’) their older devices. They could happily continue to support the functionality they do today, with the overall system software recognising different device capabilities. Countless software systems do this using versioned interfaces or other well-known approaches.

If they choose to stop support it will be based primarily on economic and/or product strategy considerations, not technical ones.

4 x P:5 | Sub | 4 x P:1 | 3 x Connect | 2 x Boost | Connect:Amp | 2 x One | Amp | Move | Port
106rallye
Userlevel 7
Badge +17

So a manufacturer that sells new equipment and actually financially encourages  dealers to recycle electronic products that have been maintained for in some instances more than ten years is somehow morally wrong?

I think Sonos could have done a lot worse, first by stopping updates after (see some Android phones) a couple of years and then by not caring about recycling at all.

J

the retailer makes enough margin as is so don't need to receive any more incentive IMO. 

I hadn’t realised that the retail margins on Sonos products was public knowledge.  What is it?

Don't think it is public knowledge, I'm in the custom install business. Margin depends on product but Sonos set their products retail price

I used to be a Sonos reseller.  I stopped because the margins left no hope of making any money.  I am sure the big retailers are on bigger margins, but in fact neither you nor I have a clue whether your assertion is true.  Not that it makes any difference to the theme of this thread. 

lewisc
Userlevel 4
Badge +9

the retailer makes enough margin as is so don't need to receive any more incentive IMO. 

I hadn’t realised that the retail margins on Sonos products was public knowledge.  What is it?

Don't think it is public knowledge, I'm in the custom install business. Margin depends on product but Sonos set their products retail price

Authorised Sonos Installer
J

the retailer makes enough margin as is so don't need to receive any more incentive IMO. 

I hadn’t realised that the retail margins on Sonos products was public knowledge.  What is it?

lewisc
Userlevel 4
Badge +9

Oh fer cripes sake, can’t you read?  - IT’S THE CUSTOMER DOING THE SHIPPING BACK TO SONOS!!!!

Don't be rude. That's not what Sonos' T&C's say that was sent to retailers.

Authorised Sonos Installer
S
Userlevel 7
Badge +15

Did they really send it out to Connect and connect:amp owners? (Thought it was zp units)


Yes.

Here too (among many others)   https://www.androidcentral.com/sonos-offers-30-new-speakers-its-new-trade-program

R
Userlevel 3
Badge +3

Did they really send it out to Connect and connect:amp owners? (Thought it was zp units)

S
Userlevel 7
Badge +15

think this old equipment you can trade in includes the likes of this:

https://www.johnlewis.com/sonos-connect-wireless-music-system/p230973910

Yes, you can still buy it.

Thank you, I hadn’t realised that. Man that’s so corrupt and morally wrong. Throwing away working products at the same time as manufacturing the exact same product. 

 

Waiting for an official Sonos reply...

 

Sonos isn’t manufacturing Connects anymore.  This are from previous runs that have not yet been sold at some retailers.    These units probably do have a lot of life left in them, and honestly it would be pretty silly buy one and  trade it in for a new Port.  I don’t imagine a lot of people would be doing that, or a Connect that was purchased in the last year or two. 

 


While they may not be manufacturing them any more, up until a few weeks ago this was the latest Sonos product to enable you to hook up your AV system to your Sonos system.  In nobody’s book should that be classed as old or first gen.

So while people would be ‘silly’ to buy one and trade it in, it’s highly possible they could buy one and be prompted shortly after by Sonos that their brand new product old and suitable for an upgrade.  That’s frankly ludicrous.  They could then reasonably come here and see that, yes, Sonos do class their new Connect as old and first gen and worth nothing like the money they’ve literally just paid.  With a ‘reassurance’ that Sonos will try to support it as long as they can - but an admittance in writing that’s it’s really old tech……...

R
Userlevel 3
Badge +3

 

 

 

 

 

I think I'm more bothered about that they're recycling perfectly working products. Why can't they do a trade in but retailers can sell the 'used and approved' products..

 

IMO one reason to take these old products offline is they are going to phase out support of older products. This will help reduce the the number of pissed off customers when they pull the plug- they will be bricked like the cr100 and iPod dock.  

 

 

 

 

 

jgatie

Oh fer cripes sake, can’t you read?  - IT’S THE CUSTOMER DOING THE SHIPPING BACK TO SONOS!!!!

lewisc
Userlevel 4
Badge +9

Thanks for joining in and asking questions. I’ll make sure to pass along your feedback on this program.

@lewisc , it sounds like your main question is on why we’re asking that owners recycle these devices instead of taking it back ourselves or allowing the devices to remain functioning. As you know, this offer is for first generation products that have been replaced by more powerful, capable products in our line-up that introduce new experiences. While we’re proud of how long our products last, we don’t want these old products to be the first experience a new customer has with Sonos if gotten off of a second hand market. We hope that in upgrading to the latest and greatest, people will recycle responsibly, and we feel it’s the right decision to make recycling a condition of this offer. We are prioritizing environmental responsibility and encourage our users to responsibly recycle their deactivated products through local e-recyclers. Lists of local certified e-recyclers can be found online, such as here: https://www.google.com/maps/search/e-waste+recycling

Certified e-recyclers adhere to sustainability policies and practices for managing electronics, including the reuse of materials, energy recovery and responsible disposal. Recycling locally is more eco-friendly and sustainable than packing up products and shipping them back to us. That said, our goal is to keep players out of the landfill, so if local recycling isn’t an option, customers are welcome to ship it back to Sonos at our expense.

Thanks for the generic reply. I get that you want new products out there but you are throwing away perfectly fine usable items. The ‘old’ products are exactly how they were when you originally sold them, there’s nothing wrong with them, they are still as good as they were.. it’s just that newer (debatably better) products have been released. You could have offered a used and approved 2nd had scheme or something.

‘condition of this offer’ - may be a condition but you’re not enforcing it or even asking for proof from retailers

‘ship it back to Sonos at our expense’ - If retailers can’t be bothered to recycle they’re definitely not going to go to the effort of creating a shipment + shipping individual products back to you is extremely in-efficient and bad for the environment. If this was a serious option, products could be taken back to the distributors on a weekly basis on the same lorries that make the deliveries. 

I’m obviously not fully in the loop and don’t know anywhere near the amount to really make a judgement but it just seems from the outside that Sonos as a $1billion+ company you could be doing more..

Authorised Sonos Installer
Ryan S
Userlevel 7
Badge +26

Thanks for joining in and asking questions. I’ll make sure to pass along your feedback on this program.

@lewisc , it sounds like your main question is on why we’re asking that owners recycle these devices instead of taking it back ourselves or allowing the devices to remain functioning. As you know, this offer is for first generation products that have been replaced by more powerful, capable products in our line-up that introduce new experiences. While we’re proud of how long our products last, we don’t want these old products to be the first experience a new customer has with Sonos if gotten off of a second hand market. We hope that in upgrading to the latest and greatest, people will recycle responsibly, and we feel it’s the right decision to make recycling a condition of this offer. We are prioritizing environmental responsibility and encourage our users to responsibly recycle their deactivated products through local e-recyclers. Lists of local certified e-recyclers can be found online, such as here: https://www.google.com/maps/search/e-waste+recycling

Certified e-recyclers adhere to sustainability policies and practices for managing electronics, including the reuse of materials, energy recovery and responsible disposal. Recycling locally is more eco-friendly and sustainable than packing up products and shipping them back to us. That said, our goal is to keep players out of the landfill, so if local recycling isn’t an option, customers are welcome to ship it back to Sonos at our expense.

Mark good posts by pressing the like button, and select the best answer on questions you've asked to help others find solutions.
lewisc
Userlevel 4
Badge +9

So the customer still receives the full discount and the burden of recycling is all on the retailer/manufacturer?

Great, now that we’ve established that it is just about the bottom line for all parties involved, let’s haggle price.

Do you not agree that Sonos should make sure units are being recycled as should?

 

Sonos can set whatever discount they want but as the biggest party they need to be responsible (as much as possible) for the use of their products and correct disposal

 

In my humble opinion, manufacturers should be responsible for the waste they create, and the consumer should be responsible for the waste they create.  By whom this particular waste is created is where we probably should agree to disagree.

However, I find it slightly ironic that you claim the “retailers themselves don’t care about the state of the planet and only care about their personal profits”, yet you yourself are not willing to forego some of your discount in order to save that very same planet. 

I'm happy for forego discount. All of my Sonos products have been bought at retail price. If they were going to offer a 30% discount they could do a 15% discount and the remaining 'saving' in stead of it going to the customer they could use them funds to recycle.

 

I think I'm more bothered about that they're recycling perfectly working products. Why can't they do a trade in but retailers can sell the 'used and approved' products..

Authorised Sonos Installer
melvimbe

think this old equipment you can trade in includes the likes of this:

https://www.johnlewis.com/sonos-connect-wireless-music-system/p230973910

Yes, you can still buy it.

Thank you, I hadn’t realised that. Man that’s so corrupt and morally wrong. Throwing away working products at the same time as manufacturing the exact same product. 

 

Waiting for an official Sonos reply...

 

Sonos isn’t manufacturing Connects anymore.  This are from previous runs that have not yet been sold at some retailers.    These units probably do have a lot of life left in them, and honestly it would be pretty silly buy one and  trade it in for a new Port.  I don’t imagine a lot of people would be doing that, or a Connect that was purchased in the last year or two. 

 

Danny
jgatie

So the customer still receives the full discount and the burden of recycling is all on the retailer/manufacturer?

Great, now that we’ve established that it is just about the bottom line for all parties involved, let’s haggle price.

Do you not agree that Sonos should make sure units are being recycled as should?

 

Sonos can set whatever discount they want but as the biggest party they need to be responsible (as much as possible) for the use of their products and correct disposal

 

In my humble opinion, manufacturers should be responsible for the waste they create, and the consumer should be responsible for the waste they create.  By whom this particular waste is created is where we probably should agree to disagree.

However, I find it slightly ironic that you claim the “retailers themselves don’t care about the state of the planet and only care about their personal profits”, yet you yourself are not willing to forego some of your discount in order to save that very same planet. 

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