We need Audiophile Edition version of Port


Userlevel 2

First of I want to say that I have been using Sonos products since 2009. Besides Sonos, I had a lot of gear but none of it could match Sonos's ease of use and sound quality (for the price). I have to come clean and say that I am used to using Sonos everywhere and I love it. 

As an audiophile, I was looking to replace my aging Sonos Connect with Port and realized from all the reviews that it does not have a better digital output. This was a show stopper for me and it is a show stopper for all audiophiles out there. 

You are missing a very important niche of the market. It is taken by Raspberry Pie implementations and Bluesound and Aurelia, not because they have better software or support for services, but because they have a better digital output. That is it. Nothing else. Everyone I have talked to said they like Sonos but the digital output is jittery. I have tried a lot of solutions and even they sound better than Connect over coax they are all not easy to use, do not have support for the majority of services, etc… I meet old people putting Raspberry Pie solutions together and struggling with boards and power supplies and software issues just to get good digital output. Audiophiles are people willing to spend a lot of money on a good streamer. 

Wired 4 Sound managed to mod Connect into a damn good streamer. There is no reason you can do it too! 

Sonos has the best software and the rest of the products are great but you are missing the main link with audiophiles.

Sonos Port Digital or whatever you want to call it

No audio inputs or outputs. Audiophiles will not use them. They suck compared to $$$$$ priced amps. Just Digital Coax and maybe, just maybe, optical output.

Get power supply clean and stable, maybe even consider having standard power cable, get rid of jitter, use high-quality SPIDF connector…

Make Sonos digital output sound great and you will sell a bunch. 

I will buy it first if you manage to do it for $899 or less.

I sure hope that someone from Sonos will take this seriously.

If anyone agrees with me please leave comments so we can get Sonos attention.

Cheers!


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Userlevel 7
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You state: “The current from the power supply is what’s moving the magnets in the woofers and tweeters that creates the sound you hear.” Just to avoid confusion: this topic is about the Port, that does not drive speakers directly. If you want to try a different power supply for the Port, they are available: 

https://www.fidelityaudio.co.uk/sonos-port-pro-low-noise-psu-5089-p.asp

https://wyred4sound.com/products/digital-converters/music-servers/upgrades-accessories/sonos-port-modified

Could you give us a analysis result which shows the power supply on the Port puts out “so much electrical noise” along with an ABX test which shows that “so much electrical noise” is audible to the listener?

Thanks!

The current from the power supply is what’s moving the magnets in the woofers and tweeters that creates the sound you hear. The first commercial DACs built into CD players had tons of issues, such as voltage changes based on how many bits were 0s and how many were 1s. They’d output a significant difference between 01111111 and 10000000, when that should be the smallest difference possible. It doesn’t take “golden ears” to hear the difference between a mass market 1980’s CD player and a high quality one from 2022. It also doesn’t “golden ears” to hear the difference between components with cheap switching power supplies and ones with good power supplies.

Sonos power supplies aren’t crap, but to simply dismiss the impact of the electrical engineering that goes into making different audio components as inaudible because they’re “digital” is as foolhardy as the claims of any audiophool.

Sorry to pick on you. You’re post is just at the end of a frustrating thread in which I’m trying to find some answers as to why my 2-ch system w/ a Sonos Connect into a Pro-ject Pre Box S2 into a Bryson 4B sounded so much better before I replaced all that with an Amp so I could use the 2-channels as rear speakers with an Arc and Sub. Even when I set the surrounds to max for music playback, the music just isn’t as enjoyable as it was before. Probably has more to do with impedance matching with the speakers (B+Ws) than anything else.  

 

If “golden ears” are not needed, then the requested ABX test to show the electrical noise is audible to the listener should be a piece of cake.  When should I expect it?

Userlevel 2

You state: “The current from the power supply is what’s moving the magnets in the woofers and tweeters that creates the sound you hear.” Just to avoid confusion: this topic is about the Port, that does not drive speakers directly. If you want to try a different power supply for the Port, they are available: 

https://www.fidelityaudio.co.uk/sonos-port-pro-low-noise-psu-5089-p.asp

https://wyred4sound.com/products/digital-converters/music-servers/upgrades-accessories/sonos-port-modified

When using the digital out, you are correct that the Port doesn’t drive the speakers directly. Nevertheless, it’s part of a network that starts with one or more power sources and ends with sound waves created by the motion of coils, magnets, ribbons or other components driven by those power sources. If the Port had an optical output that would be a different story.

If you use the variable, analog output then the Port is also both the DAC and the preamp, which are very much in the path of the current that drives the speakers. 

I agree that many audiophiles go overboard with expensive stuff, some of which may make little or no audible difference. I don’t agree that when the source is digital, nothing else matters. If you use the Port’s digital out, there’s little room to improve what comes out of the Port (perhaps none), but I wouldn’t discount the possibility of any improvement. Most of what could be improved, however, could be done at the input stage of an external DAC, e.g. re-clocking, isolation of noise so it doesn’t reach the DAC’s analog outputs, etc. 

If you’re using the Port’s DAC and preamp, that’s a whole different story.

I don’t think Sonos should make an audiophile Port. What they should make is a cheaper version of the Port that only has a digital out. Eliminating the DAC and preamp (analog in and analog out) should provide significant savings.

If the Port had an optical output that would be a different story.

Not really, apart from the electrical isolation element. You might wish to acquaint yourself with digital transmission techniques. 

 

I don’t think Sonos should make an audiophile Port. What they should make is a cheaper version of the Port that only has a digital out. Eliminating the DAC and preamp (analog in and analog out) should provide significant savings.

In percentage terms? I’d wager it would actually be a pretty small saving, considering the need for processor, memory, DSP, network interfaces, etc would be the same either way. 

A DAC chip goes for pennies, it’s a commodity product.  Even the most expensive “audiophile” DAC chips are under $10, which is a rounding error for the Port pricing. Same for the analog out. 

Userlevel 2

a frustrating thread in which I’m trying to find some answers as to why my 2-ch system w/ a Sonos Connect into a Pro-ject Pre Box S2 into a Bryson 4B sounded so much better before I replaced all that with an Amp so I could use the 2-channels as rear speakers with an Arc and Sub. Even when I set the surrounds to max for music playback, the music just isn’t as enjoyable as it was before. Probably has more to do with impedance matching with the speakers (B+Ws) than anything else.  

 

 

 

If you want any constructive help here you will have to clarify exactly the signal chain via which the sound in the past, being compared against, was delivered as compared to the signal chain via which it is being delivered now. 

Thanks. I think my issue is relevant, but off topic for this thread, maybe someone could suggest another thread for using an existing 2-ch Sonos system as rear channels for a surround system without degrading the existing 2-ch system because you can only do it by putting an Amp on the 2-ch system.

The Amp replaces the external DAC, preamp and Amp on the 2-ch system. That system now has a Sub too.

That isn’t the only issue though. Switching from TV/surround to playing music on the Surround Channels through the new system is not exactly the same as playing music on the old 2-ch system. I think there is some strong DSP now on the Surround Channels. I have changed music playback from Ambient to Full and set the volume of the Surround Channels to max for Music Playback. I don’t recall if I tried turning off Trueplay, I’ll do that this weekend. If that sounds better for music I’ll just leave it off.

It’d be nice if you could set Trueplay on for TV/Surround and off for Music (or vice-versa).

 

Userlevel 2

If the Port had an optical output that would be a different story.

Not really, apart from the electrical isolation element. You might wish to acquaint yourself with digital transmission techniques. 

 

Agreed. Not irrelevant, but a different story.

 

I don’t think Sonos should make an audiophile Port. What they should make is a cheaper version of the Port that only has a digital out. Eliminating the DAC and preamp (analog in and analog out) should provide significant savings.

In percentage terms? I’d wager it would actually be a pretty small saving, considering the need for processor, memory, DSP, network interfaces, etc would be the same either way. 

Not sure what DSP you have in mind, but the idea is not to mess with the source at all.

It’s all commodity stuff. I think the end product is such a stripped down version of what they put into all their products that it could be cheaper just because it’s simpler. Every little thing adds complexity. It really is the core of every Sonos product. That’s probably the main reason they won’t offer it separately.

Thanks. I think my issue is relevant, but off topic for this thread, maybe someone could suggest another thread for using an existing 2-ch Sonos system as rear channels for a surround system without degrading the existing 2-ch system

 

Yes it is off topic because the only way to make a valid comparison of two alternatives is to have every other variable stay the exact same. And if you are comparing a stereo 2 channel set up with the sound from a surround set up even if the latter is on full music mode, there are far too many variables that will make a nonsense of any comparison because they will sound so different. And I can't see any way to have any existing 2 channel system set up for full time music play with front located speakers to also do rear surround - unless you are willing to give yourself the time of a few weeks to get used to how the latter sounds for music in full music mode with speakers at the rear. In that time, as it does in all cases to varying degrees, the brain will adapt itself to the new sound, and you may probably find it far more acceptable for full music listening than it does now. 

As to Port pricing it has little do with cost, but with a Sonos perceived value to users, with the price set accordingly by Sonos as a price policy. Those users that agree with that perceived value will find the present price acceptable. The same Port could be priced a lot lower if costs were the only consideration, but that may not give Sonos an equally good result where total profit is concerned, which is a fair way of assessing such policy decisions in any profit funded organisation.

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