So I cannot add new S2 device without wrecking my old devices. 6 Oct 2021

  • 6 October 2021
  • 13 replies
  • 179 views

I have a mix of new and old devices currently all running on single S1 system.
Now I find that if I want to add a new device such as the FIVE I can’t.

I have a Play:5 (Gen 1) that lowers the volume without me doing it. Randomly does this and I can not solve the issue.
So I thought just buy a new FIVE to replace it but if I stay on S1 I will be prevented from adding the new FIVE to my system.
But if I change to S2 so I can add the FIVE then 9 of my original devices will stop working on the same system which basically kills my entire system. (I first got SONOS with the CR100 controller, that is how old it is. They killed those off ages ago.)

So it seems this policy PROHIBITS me adding or replacing devices to my system and effectively STOPS me buying anymore of their products.
What a great business model, piss off your early adopters.


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13 replies


What a great business model, piss off your early adopters.

Sonos is counting on new customers to more than make up for the loss of that market. As another early adopter, I don’t like the approach, but I have found ways to expand my set up sans Sonos.

So it seems this policy PROHIBITS me adding or replacing devices to my system and effectively STOPS me buying anymore of their products.
What a great business model, piss off your early adopters.

 

In case you aren’t aware, you should be able to get 30% discount for each legacy device you own  to purchase new devices.  This doesn’t brick your existing speakers, so you would be free to use them as a separate S1 system, give them away, recycle, or sell them as you wish.   And of course there are reasons why the more modern and capable speakers in an S2 system can’t play with legacy products...hardware limitations and system features.  Whether or not that upsets a customer is really going to depend on the needs of the specific customer.

If the idea of upgrading your system to S2, which is understandable due to cost, or running a split S1/S2 setup doesn’t work for you, you may want to look at the used market.

 

Sonos is counting on new customers to more than make up for the loss of that market. As another early adopter, I don’t like the approach, but I have found ways to expand my set up sans Sonos.

 

Sonos has always needed new customers in order to maintain and grow their business, just like just about any other business.  The fact that some customers are just now seeming to notice and complain about the split, even though it happened over a year ago shows that they can’t just rely on existing customers to keep revenue coming in.  As well, they aren’t going to appeal to customers, new and old, if they can’t match or better the features in competing systems because their products/systems are limited by the hardware on decades old products.

 

 

 

Sonos has always needed new customers in order to maintain and grow their business, just like just about any other business.  The fact that some customers are just now seeming to notice and complain about the split, even though it happened over a year ago shows that they can’t just rely on existing customers to keep revenue coming in.

 

Fair enough, for all of the above - although Sonos is, I am sure, also getting business from early adopters that remain fans and there is no knowing how much of a market is that lot - and I can completely understand and therefore accept if my older units cannot keep up with the new features that only enhanced hardware can provide. My issue was/is with not being able to keep older units, with no additional features available, on the same system as new units that get added in time, in the one home. 

But, there are ways to move past this and add other makes to the same one system, and have all playing as one installation - one just has to get past griping about Sonos and look for options to move on with that allow this; options that do not involve either dumping old hardware in working condition, or accepting the clunky split system approach.

Fair enough, for all of the above - although Sonos is, I am sure, also getting business from early adopters that remain fans and there is no knowing how much of a market is that lot - and I can completely understand and therefore accept if my older units cannot keep up with the new features that only enhanced hardware can provide. My issue was/is with not being able to keep older units, with no additional features available, on the same system as new units that get added in time, in the one home. 

 

 

You do understand that Sonos would have to spend extra time and money to develop, test, and maintain new products working on S1?  That new products on an old system would have a limited set of features that would probably confuse and upset many customers?  That the S1 system will only get smaller in time?  Sure, customers will always opt for more flexibility, but that does not mean that a business can always afford to offer exactly what a customer wants.

As far as the size of the market for early adopters, Sonos does have the 30% discounts available to help bring them to S2.  As well, many of those early adopters may only have 1 or 2 legacy devices in their systems, as was the case for me, so not as big of an issue.  Others may have already replaced their old products with new along the way, and again, not as big of an impact.  Regardless, Sonos knows the size of their early adopter market and made the decision they thought was best.  Indeed, their sales performance since they made the switch does tend to indicate they made the right choice.

That’s not to say that some customers would have preferred Sonos taken a different approach, regardless of whether it was the right move for Sonos, and are understandably frustrated.

 

 

But, there are ways to move past this and add other makes to the same one system, and have all playing as one installation - one just has to get past griping about Sonos and look for options to move on with that allow this; options that do not involve either dumping old hardware in working condition, or accepting the clunky split system approach.

 

Fair enough, for all of the above - although Sonos is, I am sure, also getting business from early adopters that remain fans and there is no knowing how much of a market is that lot - and I can completely understand and therefore accept if my older units cannot keep up with the new features that only enhanced hardware can provide. My issue was/is with not being able to keep older units, with no additional features available, on the same system as new units that get added in time, in the one home. 

 

 

It’s been explained 1000 times - S1 devices cannot work with S2 devices if S1 doesn’t have the S2 device defined.  Since S2 only devices came out after S1 was split, and S1 cannot fit any more device definitions due to hardware limitations, S1 cannot work with S2 only devices.  This fact also explains why S1 can work with S2 devices which were defined before the split.  It’s Engineering 101.

 

 

 

 

That’s not to say that some customers would have preferred Sonos taken a different approach, regardless of whether it was the right move for Sonos, and are understandably frustrated.

 

Some are frustrated perhaps; speaking for myself, it turned out to be the classic situation of a window closing to allow a bigger and better one to open.

To enable me to move to all S2 I would need to replace a minimum of four S1 devices.

The cost including 30% discount is $1,677AUD.
In doing this two expensive CONTROLS would be rendered useless making the system less convenient to use. Note that 30% discount is one for one so I would get NO recompense for the CONTROLS because they do not have an S2 replacement and I do not need more speakers or components.
Also my android phone does not support S2 software so another thing that would not work.

What am I supposed to do with the old SONOS gear?
I have no use for it if it will not work with the S2 system. I have no use for a separate S1 system.
Used market is flooded with old SONOS gear already so doubt it is even worth the bother attempting to sell it. So it would become junk or worse, landfill.

I don’t see why the new products could not have been made backward compatible.
I DO NOT NEED whatever the extra features/functions are of S2.
My S1 does what I need and does it well.

What is to stop SONOS doing this again with an S3 version forcing yet another cycle of upgrading costing us yet again.
 

To enable me to move to all S2 I would need to replace a minimum of four S1 devices.

 

If you write about what you are seeking to do by an expansion of your present S1 system, you may get some useful ideas that do not involve replacing existing units.

In some respects it is ‘kicking the can down the road’ a bit, but you could replace the PLAY:5 with a used unit. 

In some respects it is ‘kicking the can down the road’ a bit, but you could replace the PLAY:5 with a used unit. 

I re-read the opening post from which I see that the quoted arises. There are other solutions if one of the many units the OP has today is an independent zone - in which case that unit may be brought in to replace the play 5, while a new Sonos unit can be put to serve the said independent zone, running on S2. Or, especially if only streaming service are a source, a non Sonos unit can also serve just as well there. And if either unit is also capable of voice control, there isn't even a need to access the S2 controller except for the first set up if the chosen replacement is from Sonos.



I don’t see why the new products could not have been made backward compatible.
I DO NOT NEED whatever the extra features/functions are of S2.
My S1 does what I need and does it well.


 

 

As has been explained here thousands of times, in order for a device to run on S1, it needs to be defined in S1.  So all devices, even some S2 devices, can run on S1 if they existed before S1 was frozen.  After the split, the devices are not defined in the now frozen S1 software, so they cannot run on S1.   

Although I understand your frustration, Sonos aren’t going to change anything to ameliorate your problem.

Consequently, your options are to buy another Play 5 or to get someone to attempt to fix your faulty one.

In the UK, there is at least one place that will attempt to fix Play 5 devices. Used devices are available as are brand new but ‘old’ stock from at least one retailer - despite them being discontinued a while ago.

Don’t know what it’s like where you are….

I don’t see why the new products could not have been made backward compatible.
I DO NOT NEED whatever the extra features/functions are of S2.
My S1 does what I need and does it well.

 

 

This has already been answered.  Sonos could have done the required development and testing to make their new speakers less functional and work on an S1 system for those who don’t want to upgrade and don’t want new features.    But S1 is a smaller and shrinking market, and it’s unlikely to be profitable or even break even from the investment in doing so.  I don’t know the actual numbers involved, none of us do, but it’s not hard to see why it could very well be a poor business decision.

As customers, we don’t need to care about what’s good for Sonos, but if we are going to ask questions about why Sonos or any other business does or doesn’t do something, we need to attempt to view things from their perspective.

What is to stop SONOS doing this again with an S3 version forcing yet another cycle of upgrading costing us yet again.
 

 

S3 likely will happen someday, in my opinion,  assuming technology moves on to the point where the current speakers and network can’t compete with what other competing companies want, and what customers are asking for.  But Sonos does guarantee that you will get 5 years minimum after they stop producing a speaker.  History shows that it’s likely to be more than that.  As well, it’s clearly not something Sonos wants to do, since it’s not popular with a lot of customers and makes support a lot more difficult.

But every piece of tech will eventually be outdated and no longer supported, not just Sonos.  If that doesn’t work for you than it’s better to use only analog speakers and amp, or a strategy where your speakers/amps are wired to cheap modern audio sources that you don’t mind replacing more often.