Privacy Concerns

  • 30 August 2017
  • 39 replies
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I bought the Sonos 5 to stream music period!. If I wanted a snooping, listening always on "assistant" I would have bought the Google Home or the Amazon Alexa. If I am forced to add this capability to my Sonos 5 with a mandatory "upgrade" I would rather brick the device and simply use it as a Powered Speaker...

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39 replies

If you're in Europe, @Reston. You have the right for all your data to be deleted as from April next year. http://www.eugdpr.org/the-regulation.html
Dear God, sell your freaking Sonos so we may be rid of your nonsense.
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$500 for a amped speaker wow. Sounds like dating on Craigslist..I'm not judging here...judge free zone.
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I bought the Sonos 5 to stream music period!. If I wanted a snooping, listening always on "assistant" I would have bought the Google Home or the Amazon Alexa. If I am forced to add this capability to my Sonos 5 with a mandatory "upgrade" I would rather brick the device and simply use it as a Powered Speaker...

So let's get back to your initial post: You are NOT forced to do this, just decline the statement and the updates and simply use the Play:5 as a powered speaker, remove it from your network and use the line-in!

By the way; this "added capability" will only work if you both update AND add a voice-capable device to your system.
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It sounds like herpies. I'm sorry I need more. Actually less.
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Well if an analogy works best for you; You already told her parents where you live and how to reach you when you brought her home, you might have shared your best friend with her who taught her great music, she also brought her best friend in and gave you even more joy of music. She now is telling you she can bring more friends over if you let her, but is okay with it if you don't. If you don't keep up with the world and stop talking to her parents you might loose a friend or two, but you will still have each other and your shared friend in the end... :S
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You judge me wrongly sir! Why can I not enjoy and trust another?
Dear Lord, that analogy is absurd and shows a willful ignorance of the privacy policy and the corrections to your misinformed opinions stated right here in this thread. It is your choice and your choice only to invite others into the relationship. Choose not to, and your beloved Sonos goes on being a one man woman just like before. Your paranoia about her wanting others is going to cost you a good relationship.
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I see that the crowd here is mostly pro Sonos and I failed in stating my disappointment in the product. So let me change tack and approach the harbour from a different close reach hopefully to garner support here. I bought my one and only Sonos 5 product after spending time with a family member that has many Sonos products. I loved the audible clarity and ease of use. I thought the ability to adjust for room acoustics was a plus. I was hooked. I was also very nervous. I'm not sure if anyone here has dated online but if you have I'm sure you have been seduced by the online promise. I dived in. She arrived as promised, in a beautiful box with a clever latch. She was shy at first. I had to add her to my wifi family but once accepted she performed as promised. The first Kizz was amazing, I felt that feeling of falling in love. I played it cool at first. Only a few Led Zeppling tracks possible a old Rod Stewart track or two but nothing heavy. I gave her space. We would play often. We did an opera and a Andy Williams. We skipped joyfully over a limp bizkit track or two but who cares nobody is listening. We dated for about 9 months, we traveled back from Texas to Virginia I thought this was a long term relationship.Then things changed. She became demanding. She wanted new things. She wanted to invite others into our relationship.

Sorry, I never buy electronics secondhand because I'm afraid people have installed surveillance equipment in them.


Or something even more nefarious, given the Teddy K-like anti-technology rant above. 😉
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For sale Sonos 5 with original packaging...

Sorry, I never buy electronics secondhand because I'm afraid people have installed surveillance equipment in them.
I guess that begs the question: Why in H-E-Double Hockey Sticks did you agree to the privacy statement in the first place? Those nefarious snooping microphones didn't appear in an update, they were there when you bought the units. The same evil corporate data sucking you are afraid of now was going on at the time you bought the P:5's. So what has changed? Have your eyes really been opened by an internet news story riddled with inaccuracies?
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I yearn for a simpler world where music was played without commercials, where phones would not track you, where updates meant device replacement where cars.needed driving and data centers did not run advanced analytics. I guess you are all in love with what Sonos is doing and I'm sure the company means well. However with the constant aquistions of technology companies and the sucking sound of data from the Audio system I for one choose not to be part of it.

For sale Sonos 5 with original packaging...
[...] Posted on SlashDot
"Sonos has confirmed that existing customers will not be given an option to opt out of its new privacy policy, leaving customers with sound systems that may eventually "cease to function".

NOT the Sonos units will cease to function, the RESPECTIVE SERVICE will (e.g. Audible or Alexa).
When the US office of National Intelligence add a new category to Intel TEMPINT to characterise the threat of Metadata and IoT then we all need to pay attention

https://www.wired.com/2017/01/connected-devices-give-spies-powerful-new-way-surveil


Hi, Kellyanne! :8
None of which has to do with Sonos' privacy statement.
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When the US office of National Intelligence add a new category to Intel TEMPINT to characterise the threat of Metadata and IoT then we all need to pay attention

https://www.wired.com/2017/01/connected-devices-give-spies-powerful-new-way-surveil
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I have a product development background. The mics were designed in for a long-term product goal.

Those two sentences don't make sense together. If you worked in PD then you'd know goals change. There's nothing unusual about component use change, and the implication of anything else is contrived.


You sir are a troll. Give me your ip address I have something I would like to give you.
...
I have worked in IT Security since 2011 in both commercial and government agencies protecting infrastructure against such data/metadata exfiltration attacks.

So you went from script kiddie threats to security expert in the span of a few posts?

Your ostensible, short security background notwithstanding you're making multiple inaccurate points. The most egregious is suggesting that Sonos has some sort of malicious intent with the devices failing to work. This is simply reality. If you stop updating your operating system then applications won't work either.

It's not naive to express skepticism about murky, undefined future threats. In my view Sonos has been upfront about the update, and they have clearly communicated the reasons for it. I'm unable to see how, if you actually read the policy/posts from Sonos, you could get a different understanding.

This has also always been the case, if I remember correctly somewhere around the release of 6.0 Spotify would stop working if you didn't update since the way how Spotify connected had changed.


Yup. The same with acknowledging the new AWS security measures. Once again, some silly website is fishing for clicks by stating Sonos' privacy policy has changed into a cross between Orwell's Big Brother and Beria's NKVD, when it really hasn't changed at all. Except to reflect the fact that Sonos needs to share the information it has collected all along with their voice control partners. Voice control which is completely voluntary and must be explicitly activated by the user.

In other words, acknowledging the privacy policy is required, but any of the new data collection announced by that policy is 100% voluntary. Truly a tempest in a teapot.
*Double YAWN* :8
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@jgatie..It seems you are very much invested in Sonos based on the equipment list so I understand your avoidance of the issues here. I will not respond any further to your quips. BTW Aluminium has replaced Tin in foil since 1910. There are some really good books out there that may help you catch up.


You’re a loudmouth, baby. You better shut it up. I’m gonna beat you up ’cause you’re a loudmouth, babe.
-Ramones, Loudmouth
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The fact that Sonos is mandating expansion of the original EULA, adding additional undefined capabilities and stating that the device may cease to function if upgrades are not performed should be of concern to all Sonos users.

This has also always been the case, if I remember correctly somewhere around the release of 6.0 Spotify would stop working if you didn't update since the way how Spotify connected had changed.
*YAWN*

I would counter your quip about my naivete by asking how it feels to wear a tin-foil hat so tight that it cuts off oxygen to the brain, but I'm not into personal attacks.

I do find it funny that you criticize my naivete, but you yourself trust a story that states as fact "It comes as the home sound system maker prepares to begin collecting audio settings, error data, and other account data before the launch of its smart speaker integration in the near future" when Sonos is not preparing "to begin collecting" any of these things, for they have been doing it all along. To used a very overused, but totally applicable in this case term - You are falling for fake news.

But I will sit back and laugh when that lawsuit ultimately gets thrown out of court.
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@Jgatie. How does it feel to be naive? Sure, the original EULA did claim "audio settings, error data, and other account data" but the expectation of privacy will always need to be considered after all, the end user is buying an Audio Speaker System and not a "home helper". The fact that Sonos is mandating expansion of the original EULA, adding additional undefined capabilities and stating that the device may cease to function if upgrades are not performed should be of concern to all Sonos users.

I have worked in IT Security since 2011 in both commercial and government agencies protecting infrastructure against such data/metadata exfiltration attacks.

I suggest your read up. SANS.org or ISC2 are good starting places.

Here is one of the first class actions against Sonos.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2017/08/24/sonos-triggers-fight-over-privacy-with-new-data-rules-for-audio-devices/FOvJy8dkgeiylkv8RKot0J/story.html
I have a product development background. The mics were designed in for a long-term product goal. Sonos have not been totally quiet on their ambitions to compete with the likes of Google and Amazon. I am unhappy about the metadata and any potential backdoor application that could be pushed out to the Sonos 5.
Posted on SlashDot
"Sonos has confirmed that existing customers will not be given an option to opt out of its new privacy policy, leaving customers with sound systems that may eventually "cease to function". It comes as the home sound system maker prepares to begin collecting audio settings, error data, and other account data before the launch of its smart speaker integration in the near future. A spokesperson for the home sound system maker told ZDNet that, "if a customer chooses not to acknowledge the privacy statement, the customer will not be able to update the software on their Sonos system, and over time the functionality of the product will decrease. The customer can choose to acknowledge the policy, or can accept that over time their product may cease to function."


To the bolded: I've got news for you, they've been collecting "audio settings, error data, and other account data" all along, and that fact has been in the privacy policy for a long, long time. You know, the same privacy policy that you originally agreed to when you bought your Sonos, and you paid no attention until some obscure website posted nonsense and got people all fired up over nothing in order to generate clicks? How's it feel to be manipulated?