DENON enters the fray


More details will emerge in following hours and days, here is the early scoop:

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/06/prweb11906280.htm

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Could be a serious competitor as they are bulding nice products.
Like all other Sonos competitors they seem to rely on standard wifi for synchronisation which may be an issue.
One funny sentence in the article:
Truly within minutes users can begin enjoying the sound of their favorite music filling the room—no Ethernet cable required
This is clearly oriented towards Sonos' need for a wired component, we'll see how long this stays true.
I hope it's not using the Denon remote software equal to the AVR Line. This is a POS.

Rainer
Like all other Sonos competitors they seem to rely on standard wifi for synchronisation which may be an issue.
"Audiophile-level synchronization" might suggest that Denon licensed Caskeid from Imagination Technologies/Pure, though googling doesn't confirm that and this is mere speculation.

Caskeid claims very tight sync, using the timestamp broadcast from the WiFi access point as master clock. How that would work across a larger network with a mix of wired/wireless and multiple APs is open to question.
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interesting first hands-on review here

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/129185-hands-on-heos-by-denon-multi-room-system-review

the 'Connect' equivalent has an amazing array of connections including 'digital in' and a 'sub out' whereas for Sonos there is no digital in, except a playbar, and you need the connect amp for subsee pics.
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/129185-hands-on-heos-by-denon-multi-room-system-review/gallery
Looks promising, and already completed and heading to market... I'm a loyal customer, but there is a shortcoming with Sonos that is a major problem for me and Sonos refuses to address it. They had years... Now they have until Denon's release at the end of June to acknowledge a fix for the 65K problem for a growing number of their users, or they're going to lose at least this customer.

Even Denon's smartphone app looks a thousand times better than what Sonos just released.
Now they have until Denon's release at the end of June to acknowledge a fix for the 65K problem for a growing number of their users, or they're going to lose at least this customer.
What if any are the library capacity limitations in the Denon? Unless it simply uses a DLNA server there must be an index somewhere.
I'm optimistic. :D

But yeah... important note to leave out, and I can't imagine there being any sort of limit. We'll see in a couple of weeks...
What Hi-Fi seem quite impressed on first viewing.
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What Hi-Fi seem quite impressed on first viewing.

Yes, I've asked them to find out re: format support and any track limits, haven't checked back actually since then...
The CONNECT equivalent certainly doesn't lack for connectivity options. I'm not too sure about the external styling though....
The CONNECT equivalent certainly doesn't lack for connectivity options. I'm not too sure about the external styling though....

Yes my thoughts exactly when I saw it!
I thought the same thing, but my Connects are tucked away so it really doesn't matter.
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Any queue you’re particularly proud of is easily saved for quick revisiting by clicking the star icon at the top of your history page to turn it into a playlist, all stored in the cloud.If only something like that had been suggested before for Sonos.:rolleyes: Playlists stored separate from the actual units eh, now there's an idea.
The ability to have playlists per controller - and access music spread across other controllers all sounds great too.
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The CONNECT equivalent certainly doesn't lack for connectivity options. I'm not too sure about the external styling though....

Kind of looks like a projector to me...
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Some nice features, especially the ability to communicate via 5Ghz and the Waves DSP processing capability.
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... And it supports Spotify Connect so I can play direct from the Spotify app - FINALLY !

Come on Sonos - this is just what I've been waiting for - how about you do the same ? (Please don't tell me to use Google Play instead)
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... And it supports Spotify Connect so I can play direct from the Spotify app - FINALLY !

Come on Sonos - this is just what I've been waiting for - how about you do the same ? (Please don't tell me to use Google Play instead)


It is still completely ridiculous that Sonos is not even considering implementing Spotify Connect.

Spotify on Sonos is a mess.
As I said, whoever is leading the charge at Sonos is very shortsighted and has taken their eye off the ball. Unless something there changes soon, Sonos will be going the way of Squeezebox.
As I said, whoever is leading the charge at Sonos is very shortsighted and has taken their eye off the ball. Unless something there changes soon, Sonos will be going the way of Squeezebox.

That's my fear too. I'm currently resisting buying any more Sonos gear for this reason and because I was very disappointed with the new software.

If it needs Sonos to bring out a whole new range of hardware to be able to provide the better user experience then so be it. I'd be tempted if they did.
It's not the software for me... I can work around that. It's the 65K limitation. I need more Sonos pieces, but have been holding off because of the limitation. I'm even willing to pay for an additional piece of hardware to hold the index... But they don't care.

Barring any limit, Denon looks like it will be getting my money instead.
It's not the software for me... I can work around that. It's the 65K limitation. I need more Sonos pieces, but have been holding off because of the limitation. I'm even willing to pay for an additional piece of hardware to hold the index... But they don't care.

Barring any limit, Denon looks like it will be getting my money instead.


Have you had any feedback about the Denon and any limits it may have? I'd be very surprised if any new hardware had such limits to be honest.
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I feel like there are so many solutions for the 65K limit and they just don't care (additional hardware to hold index, allow for DLNA server access or write their own light server app). I personally will never hit that limit but understand it is important to some.
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The aux-in and USB on every device is nice. The UI, which I think is a hugely important piece, looks promising.
Have you had any feedback about the Denon and any limits it may have? I'd be very surprised if any new hardware had such limits to be honest.

I haven't. I have emailed them asking about it. No response yet.

I feel like there are so many solutions for the 65K limit and they just don't care (additional hardware to hold index, allow for DLNA server access or write their own light server app).

Exactly. They seem to be focused on cloud and streaming based solutions now, forgetting all about their original base idea.
What it will boil down to, and the main reason that Sonos have had such success up to now, will be whether in a real world environment the new generation of Sonos killers can stream reliably over wi-fi (or whatever network they opt to use).

Sonosnet has pretty much worked over the years for the vast majority of users without a blip. If a new product enters the market and they can achieve this level of reliability then people will take them seriously. If they are using wi-fi then they need to ensure that someone sitting upstairs in their bedroom can listen to their music source while three or four others in house stream films, play online games and generally spam up the wireless spectrum. This has to be the foundation for any competitor.

All those who read this forums are aware of the limitations of the current Sonos system which means anyone entering the market will also have a good understanding of what they need to include to tempt the current Sonos client base away. For some the lure might be the removal of the 65k track limit. For others it might be hi-res audio support. It could be connectivity. The Denon looks like you could just about wire anything you like to the back of it!

I have read a few user forums about the Bose range and at the moment they do not seem to have completely cracked it. Perhaps the Denon will be the one. I have read too many posts about Sonos killers to be convinced until I can read forums such as this one about rival products stacked full of glowing praise for their new purchase.

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