I have ready various posts about compressed/uncompressed usage of the Sonus and I think I have a different problem. The issue that I have is that I have a Connect (not Connect Amp) attached to my Sonus system (through LAN cable into Wi-Fi router) to feed an external music source into Sonus (happens to be Airplay) and the sound is out of sync as the local speakers connected to the Connect fire first and then the rest of the Sonus speakers are delayed a slight bit resulting in an out of sync sound system.
I have tried compressed/uncompressed and the issue that I am having is not the normal sync issue that most post about. What I would like is some way to delay the local audio out in the Connect itself so that it can sync up with the inherent delay in the Sonus network. My sense is that the line in on the Connect is immediately feeding into the amplifier on the output audio ports -- much faster path than the rest of the meshed network. I am using Digital Coax output on the connect. The ideal would be some sort of delay 'slider' in the App for the Connect that would allow for the internal audio to be adjusted (delayed) out in time to provide closer sync to the rest of the Sonus network.
Any clues/suggestions?
I have thought to look for some sort of externally mounted 'delay' device, but this starts to get a bit convoluted/Rub Goldberg-ish in my mind...
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Problem definition comes first, and I am not sure that has been fully done. Any output from Connect, regardless of what source it comes from, will be in sync with other Sonos units; indeed, that is why there is a delay when the source feeding the Connect is ALSO feeding another amp and speakers, with the latter then firing first before any Sonos unit, including Connect, does.
Perhaps you can tell us how and to what every jack, input and output, on the Connect is wired to?
There's no such thing. Audio data is buffered at each player, then clocked out -- in sync -- under the control of an accurate shared network timebase.
I also don't understand the precise configuration which is evidently causing the problem.
BTW there's no 'direct' mode for Line-In to the CONNECT's outputs. It's subject to the same delay as any other player.
I am struggling as much as the other respondents to make sense of what you are doing, I'm afraid, but I'm sure we would all like to help.
As a guess...
1. You have a music source playing through line-in to a Connect, doesn't really matter what it is.
2. The Connect feeds third-party powered speakers (or amp + passive speakers, but you only mention speakers)
3. You have grouped the Connect with Sonos Play speakers on your system
.... yet the speakers grouped with the Connect are playing behind the Connect??? Is that the set up? If not please explain how things actually are.
What happens if you play a non-line-in source through the Connect, with the same grouping?
As a guess...
1. You have a music source playing through line-in to a Connect, doesn't really matter what it is.
2. The Connect feeds third-party powered speakers (or amp + passive speakers, but you only mention speakers)
3. You have grouped the Connect with Sonos Play speakers on your system
.... yet the speakers grouped with the Connect are playing behind the Connect??? Is that the set up? If not please explain how things actually are.
What happens if you play a non-line-in source through the Connect, with the same grouping?
It sounds as though the OP thinks he's playing the CONNECT's Line-Out but is in fact playing direct from the external source. This would put the audio ahead of any Sonos output.
John B has it correctly understood:
I do group together (Playbar + Play:3 + Play:1) to the Connect. The output of the Connect is in fact to an older Vizio soundbar (amp + speakers) through COAX SP-DIF digital. This is where the Connect audio is early relative to the rest of the devices.
I will have to try the inverse : Connect grouped as part of a 'normal' source (through Sonos App) -- in this case I would expect the audio to be in sync, but I will have to verify.
I'll see if I can upload a picture of my setup to clarify
I do group together (Playbar + Play:3 + Play:1) to the Connect. The output of the Connect is in fact to an older Vizio soundbar (amp + speakers) through COAX SP-DIF digital. This is where the Connect audio is early relative to the rest of the devices.
I will have to try the inverse : Connect grouped as part of a 'normal' source (through Sonos App) -- in this case I would expect the audio to be in sync, but I will have to verify.
I'll see if I can upload a picture of my setup to clarify
Topology diagram
Hi. You say a normal source through the Sonos app. But you are playing the line in source through the Sonos app aren't you? I am not clear whether you don't regard line in as a normal source or that you are not using the Sonos app to play it (somehow)
Are you sure the audio from the sound bar is not behind the rest of the Sonos players? This is the usual situation, on account of DSP downstream of the CONNECT.
As already stated, Sonos' audio is in sync at its own outputs. The one exception is when players are grouped with a PLAYBAR/PLAYBASE playing from its 'TV' input.
As already stated, Sonos' audio is in sync at its own outputs. The one exception is when players are grouped with a PLAYBAR/PLAYBASE playing from its 'TV' input.
Could you please clarify exactly what connections and devices are involved in getting Airplay to play to the Connect?
And is the soundbar Airplay enabled?
John: My regular config is the line-in through Connect (from Airplay) -- what I refer to as 'normal' would be a source coming from the Sonos App for instance.
The 'Airplay' input is coming from an Apple Airport device through a regular line-in 1/8 audio connection. The fact that it is Airplay is incidental to the issue.
No -- The soundbar is simply an amp/speakers slaved off the Connect through Digital COAX (SP-DIF)
Can we clarify that
I do group together (Playbar + Play:3 + Play:1) to the Connect.means that the CONNECT is part of the group, and not just providing the Line-In source (whilst playing its own Line-In independently)?
I do group together (Playbar + Play:3 + Play:1) to the Connect.means that the CONNECT is part of the group, and not just providing the Line-In source (whilst playing its own Line-In independently)?
The SONUS App can be the source of content from within the App or the input can come from the TV though the Playbar or from the line-in on the Connect. In the case of playing content from within the App (e.g. from a Sonos playlist or 'on this iphone), the sound is in much better alignment. When selecting the source from 'line-In' from within the App, which is the Line-in on the Connect device: this is where the audio is out of sync more noticeably. Yes, the grouping is identical, but the source for the content is very different, which is why i refer to it as inverse (probably should have used the word 'alternative' to describe where the source content is coming from)
My theory being that the Connect, since it is both the input source for the content as well as the audio out for the local amp/speakers, has a faster path for the audio to be fed to its local audio out connection and that by the time the audio signal is processed by the connect, converted into the mesh for the rest of the grouped devices, there is a delay with the rest of the speakers.
The simple fact is that when using the identical grouping of devices, there is a noticeable difference in the sound being in sync when the content comes from the line-in on the connect vs when the content comes from 'within the App.' The amp/speakers attached to the Connect is slightly ahead of the sound for the rest of the mesh in this case.
As an (old!) electrical engineer, I can understand that the local audio feedback in the Connect could be faster than the rest of the system, given that the audio signal has to be converted, first into digital form, and then further processed into the wi-fi (and LAN) mesh that Sonos employs to route audio to all of the grouped devices. The local audio out circuitry could be a much faster path since it could conceivably not have to go through as much processing. I have tried both the standard RCA output as well as digital coax outputs of the Connect and both are exhibiting the same behavior. I have also tried a different amplified speaker (A Bose mini) connected to the Connect and the issue still exists.
This is why I would like to delay the Connect's driving of the audio signals to the audio out ports to compensate for the processing needed by the Sonos system. The simple answer I am gleaning is there is no way to do this (delay the local audio a few hundred milliseconds or so) to align the sound. The fact that the sound is out of sync is real, though...
I do enjoy the Sonos system and this is not a huge deal breaker for me, but a final tweak I have been trying to resolve for my setup. I had an extra old Vizio soundbar that I replaced with a Sonos Playbar for my home theater. I am trying to make use of the old Vizio soundbar in some way. Since the Connect has an audio out capability, I found that to be an obvious thing to try --- but it appears not to be workable.
As an aside, the Connect works great as a generic input path for anything that I can play on my iPhone through the Airport device -- an easy way to connect Apple's Airplay network with Sonos. Simply connect the audio output of the Airport to the Audio in of the Sonos connect. With this, any streaming content I can play through my iPhone, I can route into Sonos by selecting the Airplay output from the iPhone. Examples being a web podcast from a favorite sports team that might only be available through that team's app, and not Apples podcast app. Sonos does a pretty good job of capturing a lot of streamed content, but not everything, so this path allows for anything that can be routed to Airplay to be pulled into the Sonos setup.
My theory being that the Connect, since it is both the input source for the content as well as the audio out for the local amp/speakers, has a faster path for the audio to be fed to its local audio out connection and that by the time the audio signal is processed by the connect, converted into the mesh for the rest of the grouped devices, there is a delay with the rest of the speakers.
The simple fact is that when using the identical grouping of devices, there is a noticeable difference in the sound being in sync when the content comes from the line-in on the connect vs when the content comes from 'within the App.' The amp/speakers attached to the Connect is slightly ahead of the sound for the rest of the mesh in this case.
As an (old!) electrical engineer, I can understand that the local audio feedback in the Connect could be faster than the rest of the system, given that the audio signal has to be converted, first into digital form, and then further processed into the wi-fi (and LAN) mesh that Sonos employs to route audio to all of the grouped devices. The local audio out circuitry could be a much faster path since it could conceivably not have to go through as much processing. I have tried both the standard RCA output as well as digital coax outputs of the Connect and both are exhibiting the same behavior. I have also tried a different amplified speaker (A Bose mini) connected to the Connect and the issue still exists.
This is why I would like to delay the Connect's driving of the audio signals to the audio out ports to compensate for the processing needed by the Sonos system. The simple answer I am gleaning is there is no way to do this (delay the local audio a few hundred milliseconds or so) to align the sound. The fact that the sound is out of sync is real, though...
I do enjoy the Sonos system and this is not a huge deal breaker for me, but a final tweak I have been trying to resolve for my setup. I had an extra old Vizio soundbar that I replaced with a Sonos Playbar for my home theater. I am trying to make use of the old Vizio soundbar in some way. Since the Connect has an audio out capability, I found that to be an obvious thing to try --- but it appears not to be workable.
As an aside, the Connect works great as a generic input path for anything that I can play on my iPhone through the Airport device -- an easy way to connect Apple's Airplay network with Sonos. Simply connect the audio output of the Airport to the Audio in of the Sonos connect. With this, any streaming content I can play through my iPhone, I can route into Sonos by selecting the Airplay output from the iPhone. Examples being a web podcast from a favorite sports team that might only be available through that team's app, and not Apples podcast app. Sonos does a pretty good job of capturing a lot of streamed content, but not everything, so this path allows for anything that can be routed to Airplay to be pulled into the Sonos setup.
I don't think your description matches h:ow Sonos syncs. I suggest calling Sonos Support so they can take a look at your system. It is not impossible that you have a failure in the sync timing mechanism.
I'm sorry to say that your theory is simply based on a false premise. The same audio pipeline -- and delay -- is used for local audio as for that which traverses the network. Indeed these forums are replete with threads from users explicitly requesting a 'direct mode' to play local Line-In audio with zero delay, because the option doesn't exist.
Multi-room sync is fundamental to Sonos. If, despite grouping and ruling out external effects (such as downstream DSP soundfield processing), you still lose sync then you could suffering from a rare hardware fault. Submit a diagnostic, post the number and consult Sonos.
For what it's worth I just tested a Line-In to a ZP80 (CONNECT's precursor), and grouped players are, as expected and by design, in sync with it.
This is why I would like to delay the Connect's driving of the audio signals to the audio out ports to compensate for the processing needed by the Sonos system. The simple answer I am gleaning is there is no way to do this (delay the local audio a few hundred milliseconds or so) to align the sound. The fact that the sound is out of sync is real, though...
There is no way for you to do the above simply because it has already been done by Sonos! In your case, if the AEX was a device as some are, that could also parallely feed a stereo amp+speaker pair directly, this delay in the Connect's line out - for it to be in sync with every other Sonos unit - would cause the directly fed stereo amp to play ahead of all Sonos kit, including the Connect. Because the directly fed kit would see no such delay as what is seen at the line out of the Connect.
So, as others have suggested, if you are seeing sound out of sync across Connect and other Sonos units, something is wrong and submitting diagnostics and quoting the number here is the thing to do.
Looking at the diagram posted by RaleighJim the Sonos Connect (receiving the line-in 'Airplay' source) should definitely be outputting the audio in sync with the 'grouped' other Sonos products, Play1, Play 3 and presumably the Sonos Playbar... the only issue I can envisage is a delay in output by the active Amp/Soundbar at the bottom of the drawing ... are we sure the output is coming out of that soundbar ahead of everything else and is not lagging behind the Sonos products?
Otherwise I am at a loss as to why things are not in sync. I'm certainly baffled if it is outputting its audio ahead, meaning the normal sync delay buffering appears to not be happening in the case of the Sonos Connect as though it was faulty.
The culprit to me initially looks like it is a delay by the third party 'active' Soundbar, but submitting a diagnostic may help Sonos staff resolve your issue.
Otherwise I am at a loss as to why things are not in sync. I'm certainly baffled if it is outputting its audio ahead, meaning the normal sync delay buffering appears to not be happening in the case of the Sonos Connect as though it was faulty.
The culprit to me initially looks like it is a delay by the third party 'active' Soundbar, but submitting a diagnostic may help Sonos staff resolve your issue.
Lol, I just noticed this:D...where we are going, we don't need roads!!
For the OP: in a correctly working system, any downstream of Connect units that are wired to its outputs can only play with or after all other Sonos units that are grouped with the Connect. Playing before is either a defect, or being wrongly heard to be so. Or the presence of the said capacitor of course!
Since we are ruling out all possibilities - your findings are on the basis of grouped play, correct?!
I have a theory. It's quirky, but easily tested.
Since the CONNECT is receiving analog input (from the RCA inputs from the back from the Airplay) that analog signal source is somehow "skipping" the ordinary sonos latency added to all signals WHEN IT IS OUTPUTTING TO THE OPTICAL DIGITAL OUTPUT. This is not unusual for digital receivers, which compartmentalize the analog signals from digital ones. Maybe the CONNECT is the same.
Easy enough to test, disconnect the optical line to your soundbar and connect it instead via RCA cables just like the input is. Hopefully, the CONNECT really does process the signal through the corresponding analog system.
My theory is that the internal sonos delay that would ordinarily occur inside the CONNECT is being skipped because Ethernet is connected. So the CONNECT is passing raw audio to the router and on to the other sonos speakers. Those speakers are then individually decoding and delaying the signal, which is not happening in the CONNECT and its digital-out feed.
If the CONNECT is playing an "internal" source, it's all digital all the time. So it processes the signal for the regular sonos delay.
I guess this leads to another possible solution. Disconnect the Ethernet cable running out of the CONNECT so that the CONNECT and all the other speakers are on wifi. If the Ethernet-out connection is defeating the internal DSP of the CONNECT, it will be restored once the CONNECT and all the other sonos speakers are all working off the sonos mesh network at the same time.
Lastly, I think APPLE TV has Ethernet, and it does Airplay. So if the analog cable thing doesn't work, you might need to connect to the CONNECT digitally thru Ethernet. So run the Apple TV into the CONNECT (or, actually, any of the sonos speakers) so that you can sling iTunes music. I personally ran Ethernet into a Mac mini to have direct access to my music.
Tell us if one of these work. The CONNECT is a great device, but a bit obscure too. We'd learn a lot about its innards if the cable switch solved the issue.
Since the CONNECT is receiving analog input (from the RCA inputs from the back from the Airplay) that analog signal source is somehow "skipping" the ordinary sonos latency added to all signals WHEN IT IS OUTPUTTING TO THE OPTICAL DIGITAL OUTPUT. This is not unusual for digital receivers, which compartmentalize the analog signals from digital ones. Maybe the CONNECT is the same.
Easy enough to test, disconnect the optical line to your soundbar and connect it instead via RCA cables just like the input is. Hopefully, the CONNECT really does process the signal through the corresponding analog system.
My theory is that the internal sonos delay that would ordinarily occur inside the CONNECT is being skipped because Ethernet is connected. So the CONNECT is passing raw audio to the router and on to the other sonos speakers. Those speakers are then individually decoding and delaying the signal, which is not happening in the CONNECT and its digital-out feed.
If the CONNECT is playing an "internal" source, it's all digital all the time. So it processes the signal for the regular sonos delay.
I guess this leads to another possible solution. Disconnect the Ethernet cable running out of the CONNECT so that the CONNECT and all the other speakers are on wifi. If the Ethernet-out connection is defeating the internal DSP of the CONNECT, it will be restored once the CONNECT and all the other sonos speakers are all working off the sonos mesh network at the same time.
Lastly, I think APPLE TV has Ethernet, and it does Airplay. So if the analog cable thing doesn't work, you might need to connect to the CONNECT digitally thru Ethernet. So run the Apple TV into the CONNECT (or, actually, any of the sonos speakers) so that you can sling iTunes music. I personally ran Ethernet into a Mac mini to have direct access to my music.
Tell us if one of these work. The CONNECT is a great device, but a bit obscure too. We'd learn a lot about its innards if the cable switch solved the issue.
I'm not sure whether I've read so much incorrect pseudo-science in one place before...
Since the CONNECT is receiving analog input (from the RCA inputs from the back from the Airplay) that analog signal source is somehow "skipping" the ordinary sonos latency added to all signals WHEN IT IS OUTPUTTING TO THE OPTICAL DIGITAL OUTPUT.
No. It's digitised on input, and packetised for network transport. No 'skipping', no bypass.
Raw audio? No. It's a network connection, carrying packetised data -- just the same as wireless.
It's always processed digitally, after any initial Line-In AD conversion. The delay is nothing to do with processing. It's a data buffer, to absorb variations in network transit time.
Nonsense I'm afraid. Ethernet -- or SonosNet or WiFi -- delivers data. Any DSP is totally unrelated.
No, because the Apple TV doesn't output audio over an Ethernet data connection. There really is a complete confusion about what a network connection is, and what an audio connection is.
Obscure? No, unless you start from a series of fallacious premises, such as analog audio somehow having a bypass path, Ethernet somehow being able to carry raw audio, and DSP being in some way related to the network link layer technology.
No. It's digitised on input, and packetised for network transport. No 'skipping', no bypass.
My theory is that the internal sonos delay that would ordinarily occur inside the CONNECT is being skipped because Ethernet is connected. So the CONNECT is passing raw audio to the router and on to the other sonos speakers.
Raw audio? No. It's a network connection, carrying packetised data -- just the same as wireless.
If the CONNECT is playing an "internal" source, it's all digital all the time. So it processes the signal for the regular sonos delay.
It's always processed digitally, after any initial Line-In AD conversion. The delay is nothing to do with processing. It's a data buffer, to absorb variations in network transit time.
If the Ethernet-out connection is defeating the internal DSP of the CONNECT, it will be restored once the CONNECT and all the other sonos speakers are all working off the sonos mesh network at the same time.
Nonsense I'm afraid. Ethernet -- or SonosNet or WiFi -- delivers data. Any DSP is totally unrelated.
Lastly, I think APPLE TV has Ethernet, and it does Airplay. So if the analog cable thing doesn't work, you might need to connect to the CONNECT digitally thru Ethernet.
No, because the Apple TV doesn't output audio over an Ethernet data connection. There really is a complete confusion about what a network connection is, and what an audio connection is.
The CONNECT is a great device, but a bit obscure too.
Obscure? No, unless you start from a series of fallacious premises, such as analog audio somehow having a bypass path, Ethernet somehow being able to carry raw audio, and DSP being in some way related to the network link layer technology.
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