Question

Number of Speakers


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How many Architecural in ceiling speakers are ideal for an outdoor covered patio of 11 x 13 and another 25 x 11 space?


27 replies

Userlevel 7

Hi @coreyal80 

It depends on the area you want to cover.  You can add up to 6 Sonance Architectural speakers to a Sonos Amp. Send us a diagram of the area and maybe we can offer suggestions.

 

Cheers!

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Here are two pictures showing progress of what our finished addition will look like. The upstairs is approximately 25 x 13 but an I beam in the ceiling does cut through the middle creating two 13 x 12.5 spaces. The downstairs is a mirror of the above plus another 25 x 11 covered space.  

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Userlevel 7

Hi @coreyal80 

Thanks for the images. Looks like the finished project will be a very nice space. :slight_smile:

The diagrams I’ve attached reflect 3 speakers on each level.  

The 2 inline speakers would be placed to cover what I perceive as the general entailment area (as furthest away from the elements). The other speaker in each pic is the furthest speaker to the outside of both areas. 

I recommend not placing the speakers 3 in row on the same line as all audio would be concentrated in one area.

You also have the option to reverse the tri-angle(s) if you like thus concentrating more audio to the outside. 

Sonance Outdoor speakers on hangers may be a better option as you can position the direction of the speaker/audio.

Cheers!

 

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Thank you for your help! A few questions from what you have shown here. 
 

  • There is a wood I beam in the ceiling that separates the top deck down the middle. (About 14 inches) So, if I did a third speaker in the middle it would have to go on one side or the other of that I-beam would you still recommend that?
  • On the bottom portion, you think that one speaker in the middle of the 11 x 25 section is sufficient?
Userlevel 7

Thank you for your help! A few questions from what you have shown here. 
 

  • There is a wood I beam in the ceiling that separates the top deck down the middle. (About 14 inches) So, if I did a third speaker in the middle it would have to go on one side or the other of that I-beam would you still recommend that?
  • On the bottom portion, you think that one speaker in the middle of the 11 x 25 section is sufficient?

Hi @coreyal80 

First I forgot to mention

  • You’ll want to set the Sonos Amp to send a mono signal to all speakers so that audio will be the same no matter the position of the listener.
  • You’ll also want to include a volume control for each level (not each speaker).

Question #1

If you want more audio to the furthest point I’d place it (3rd speaker) to the outside of the beam.  Same goes for lower level.

Question #2

In any event you’ll want at least 4 speakers. Maybe 3 on upper and a single on the lower or vice-versa. Placing just a single speaker in any area may cause the sound to dissipate faster in open spaces.

Advice

  1. Highly recommend you take a second look at the outdoor speakers as they are more directional. If not all….at least for the outward (3rd) speaker I indicated in my diagram.
  2. The indoor speakers are not rated for outside use. Even if employed under a covering they are not recommended for outside exposure. Your warranty may be voided.
  3. You might check with Sonos to be sure that In-ceiling speakers can be mixed with Outdoor speakers. I’ve seen no information that says they can’t :thinking:
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Thank you. The speakers I plan to use in the ceiling are the architectural ones that I have been told are good for outdoors.

Interesting. I don’t see anything on the Sonance website that indicates their Architectural series are rated for external use. They do have outdoor speakers, but they aren’t in the Architectural line.  

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I actually planned on getting these. Any idea if 6 of these can play off one Sonos amp?

 

https://www.sonance.com/outdoor/rocks-mariners-extreme/vp-extreme/products

Userlevel 7

Thank you. The speakers I plan to use in the ceiling are the architectural ones that I have been told are good for outdoors.

I don’t know from whence you got your information...but Sonos in-ceiing and in-wall speakers are not rated for outdoor use. Being “good” probably refers to “sound” but certainly not intended use.  Below is taken from Sonos FAQ’s

Can Sonos Architectural speakers be installed outdoors?

Only the Sonos Outdoor by Sonance model is rated for outdoor use. The In-Wall and In-Celling models are not rated for outdoor use and should only be installed indoors.

Userlevel 7

I actually planned on getting these. Any idea if 6 of these can play off one Sonos amp?

 

https://www.sonance.com/outdoor/rocks-mariners-extreme/vp-extreme/products

 Only those speakers listed on the Sonos website are recommended for 3 pair use (6 speakers). Sonance designs a proprietary speaker for Sonos...hence Sonos Architectural Speakers by Sonance.

Sonance is an independent company that promotes their own (in-house) line of speaker. You can use up to 4 of the Sonance (in-house) brand speakers not specifically designed for Sonos that meet the Sonos Amp use parameters.

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That makes sense. So basically I need to decide if I want the wall-mounted Sonos speakers where I can operate six or Sonance ceiling speakers that only operate 4. 

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If I went with these, where would you recommend placing them and how many?

https://www.sonos.com/en-us/shop/amp-and-outdoor-set.html

Userlevel 7

If I went with these, where would you recommend placing them and how many?

https://www.sonos.com/en-us/shop/amp-and-outdoor-set.html

You can use 3 pair (6) of the speakers in the link. They are my preference as they can mounted on a wall to project the audio outward (with a slight down tilt) or from ceiling (with proper support) to project audio downward or outward. 

Recommended placement would be 2 on back wall (upper and lower deck) and 3rd speaker if desired  as previously shown. You may not require the 3rd speaker with back wall placement of two (upper and lower deck). If uncertain you can purchase 6 to try out the need for a 3rd speaker. Sonos has a 45 day return and most retailers 15 to 30 days. 

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After further thought here’s what I was thinking.

 

1. For the upstairs I do 2 ceiling speakers in each section, so a total of four. (VPXT6R Sonance) I would do this in order to allow me to you use the ceiling speakers as TV speakers as well. Do you think not having a sound bar and using only the ceiling speakers as my TV sound would be odd?

 

2. For the downstairs speakers I use these. 

 

https://www.sonos.com/en-us/shop/outdoor-speaker-pair.html

 

I would put 2 on the basement wall facing toward the pool and then 2 on the complete opposite side of the deck but facing toward the basement wall.   Pic attached.

 

I feel 4 of these wall mounted speakers could work by how the sound disperses/positions of speakers vs 3 or 4 of the ceiling mounted ones. 

 

Userlevel 7

Hi @coreyal80 

If you are wanting to use certain speakers for TV and others for music simultaneously depending on the level (upper or lower) you’ll need two Sonos amps. They can be grouped to play music on both levels. Grouping for TV audio is possible but may cause a 70mms delay for those speakers not nominally used for TV audio.

Sending TV audio to overhead speakers is OK as long as you are not wanting precise sounding dialogue  that is anchored to the screen. Such mounting can also have an adverse effect for action sound as well. Note: In-ceiling speakers for TV (home theater) sound is usually reserved for surround speaker use.

Typically in-wall speakers are used for TV audio on either side of the set (left and Right). Doing so creates a “phantom” center for dialogue to anchor it to the screen.

In any case you can not drive more than 6 Sonos Architectural speakers per Sonos Amp or 4 non-Sonos speakers per Sonos amp. However, given that you want dedicated speakers for TV on one level and speakers for generic use on the other level...you’ll have to purchase 2 Sonos amps.

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Yes, with what I am trying to do I knew two would be required but wanted to avoid having to get three.  I see what you are saying about the TV sound coming from the ceiling speakers. I really think the best thing to do is to get a sound bar.

 

I attached a picture of the I-beam I’m talking about that separates the rooms. This is why I was thinking 4 total speakers upstairs.

 

Do you agree with the 4 speaker wall mounted set up I described for the downstairs?

Would you recommend I do 4 ceiling speakers upstairs or 2 wall mounted?

 

I sincerely appreciate all the time you have taken to answer my questions. This has been extremely helpful.

 

Userlevel 7

Hi @coreyal80 

A dedicated sound bar for the TV is a great idea. You might consider a Arc or Beam or discontinued Playbar or Playbase (if you can find one). The latter are still supported by Sonos with updates for at least 5 years. You can also add Sonos surrounds and a Sub. 

I think two Sonos outdoor Architectural speakers mounted along the rear wall of each level would be sufficient. You could use one Sonos Amp and install volume controls for each pair. If you want to add a 3rd speaker to each level you could as well. I’d just run the wires and terminate them with a plate cover to add them latter to see if the two rear mounted speakers on each level are sufficient. 

FYI, for volume control each pair along the rear walls would have a control. The 3rd speakers facing the outside would be on a separate volume control as a pair. All six speakers would run off a single Sonos Amp.

Note: A Sonos Sub used for a TV setup with a Arc, Beam, Playbar or Playbase cannot be easily re-routed to be used with the Sonos Amp. It could...but would require bonding to the TV soundbar / unbonding from the TV soundbar / bonding to the Sonos Amp / then repeating the process to re-bond to the TV soundbar...the process is very labor intensive.

I hope this answers all your questions. If not...come back :relaxed:

Cheers!

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Megan. So, if I understand you correctly you believe upstairs having a Sonos Arch outdoor wall-mounted unit in each back corner would be the optimal set up. With that being the case, do you not think the downstairs that is double the size should also have two additional speakers at the far end corners? My really bad drawing here shows you what I’m talking about. An X on each corner where I would put speakers. This space as mentioned is about 25 x 26.  As an FYI, the area outside of this is where my pool is going to be with about 2500 ft.². I plan to do the Sonos 8.2 speaker system there.

 

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Also, a person at magnolia I am speaking with recommended that I purchase 

MAGO6SYSV2 which is $999.98.  This bundle includes 2 outdoor system speakers, a Sonos AMP, and 1 Keypad all in this bundle packaged together. Curious if you have a comment one way or another on those vs the Sonos outdoor speakers that has a bundle which is 2 speakers and Sonos amp for $1,448

Userlevel 7

Is Megan meaning “me again” ? 
l’ll to respond later. But in the meantime...what is a Sonos 8.2 system? 

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Sorry, yes meant “it’s me again!”

 

The 8.2 is two of the MAG4.1  

I was able to get two of these bundles for $1,300 each  

 

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/sonance-mag-4-1-outdoor-streaming-music-system-black-brown/6359680.p?skuId=6359680

Userlevel 7

Hi @coreyal80 

Those are not Sonos supported products except for the Amp. However you’ll not find that bundle in Sonos. Meaning no support for the speakers.

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These speakers w/ the Sonos amp still allow me to operate them on the Sonos app just like Sonos speakers . So outside of cost and them not being Sonos speakers, should provide good sound quality and function?

Userlevel 7

Hi @coreyal80 

Let’s discuss you bi-level deck first.  Using the Sonos Outdoor Architectural speakers by Sonance is a good idea (2 on each level). However, I would not place them in corners unless that it is the only option. My suggestion is to place them at least 2 feet from each corner along the rear most wall of each level. Doing so allows the audio to project outward more efficiently.

Regarding the Sonance Speakers for the pool area...I have no comment to offer as I do not have any listening experience with the speakers. The Sonos Amp will drive any pair or set of four speakers as long as they do not exceed the Amp’s specifications. You will be able to use the Sonos app to configure the Sonos Amp to work with the speakers (the speakers will not be visible as Sonos products).

Note: You will need a separate Sonos Amp to drive the four (4) Sonos Outdoor Architectural speakers

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