Feature Request: Delay compensation for Port


  • Contributor I
  • 6 replies

Please introduce a delay compensation for Sonos Port connected traditional speakers. Whatever you connect to your Sonos Port will inevitably introduce additional delays - it’s just a question whether it’s audible.

I have Dynaudio wireless speakers in the Living Room (who use a Port as their source) and a Sonos speaker in my open kitchen (which I keep on selling/re-buying because it’s an annoyance both ways). There is a slight echo effect between these speakers.

Ideally delay compensation would be a feature of the app, where the mic of the phone can be used to bring a sonos port and sonos speakers in perfect sync.

I have no issue with the artificially high pricing of the sonos port, but in return I do expect a well working product - and for the purpose a Port is used that delay compensation IMHO is a core feature that I simply expected to be present.


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18 replies

Not sure what you mean. The port is connected to the Dynaudio active speakers via what kind of cable? 

Regardless though the signal the Port puts out is in perfect sync with that received and used by other Sonos units.

Also, if you keep the Sonos speakers next to the Dynaudio, is there still an echo?

Note also that there is no audible delay if you wire the Port to any stereo amp and passive speakers. 

Delay compensation in the Port alone would have to be negative, i.e. requiring a time machine. Tricky.

This issue has been discussed for years. The only option would be to delay all the other players in the group, to allow for the third party kit downstream of the Port. So there’d be discontinuities whenever the Port was added to, or removed from, the group. And what would be the solution if there are two or more Ports in the group, each connected to equipment which injects different delays?

The standard advice is to set the third party kit to a ‘direct’ or ‘pure stereo’ type of mode so as to try and put it into pass-through (or near enough). In your case the wireless lag in the Dynaudio speakers would however be impossible to defeat. 

@ratti

I generally agree with what you write, but come on, it’s 2021. I need a mere 20ms and if this is technically not possible, then it’s more out of sheer ignorance/laziness. There already is extensive buffering and very likely latency correction mechanisms already exist as well (as there are other latency inducing aspects they need to deal with).

Obviously this is a whole different story for corrections on a seconds scale, but that’s not what I’m asking for / what can reasonably be expected.

@Kumar

I don’t claim that the output of the port is not in perfect sync. What I’m saying is that whatever amp or active speakers you connect, there is always going to be latency - if you’re lucky it’s just small enough that you won’t notice. The 20ms of my Dynaudio’s also wasn’t noticeable until I added that speaker in the Kitchen (before, there were already two more Sonos speakers and another set of Dynaudio’s)

I need a mere 20ms and if this is technically not possible, then it’s more out of sheer ignorance/laziness.

It’s “laziness” which I for one would wholeheartedly support, if the alternative is costly and potentially destabilising surgery on the longstanding architecture for multi-room sync. 

And all for 20ms?! 20 milliseconds equates to only 20 feet in air. In other words, you’d already be ‘suffering’ from that lack of sync, if not more, by standing in the next room. I suggest you consider a rearrangement of your Sonos zones. 

 

@ratty 

good point. they are about 6m apart and it really sounds about right when standing in the living room with a high volume level in the kitchen - so I guess I’d need something closer to 30-40ms.

regarding rearranging the zones, it’s already my 3rd iteration of buying and giving away again my Sonos kitchen speaker :-)

from normal listening levels upwards it’s perfectly fine to just use the dyn’s while working in the kitchen. It’s more the lower listening levels where it’s really cool to have that Sonos speaker in the kitchen. but then again, I get annoyed by having to group/ungroup or changing volume levels just because Sonos doesn’t feel like adding a latency correction option for the port. Good for Sonos though, as my bro and my mom now, thanks to my previous kitchen speakers now have a sonos system too :-)

just because Sonos doesn’t feel like adding a latency correction option for the port. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

I still don't get it. In my open plan apartment centre that is about 10 metres by 9 metres, I have four Sonos zones that are play 1s, connect amp+ passives,  connect+play 1, or connect+amp+passives. When I group all, music in the open space all sounds in perfect sync and there isn't any echo to be heard.

@Kumar
My Dynaudio’s are wireless (using some dynaudio specific crap). Means the signal goes from Sonos Port to Dynaudio’s Connect Box and from there wirelessly to the speakers. This causes a 20msec delay that currently can’t be corrected for due to the lack of a corresponding feature in the port.

@Kumar
My Dynaudio’s are wireless (using some dynaudio specific crap). Means the signal goes from Sonos Port to Dynaudio’s Connect Box and from there wirelessly to the speakers. This causes a 20msec delay that currently can’t be corrected for due to the lack of a corresponding feature in the port.

 

As has been stated, it's not the Port which lacks this feature, unless you are decrying the lack of a time machine on the Port.

@jgate

Of course the Port should act as time machine. Or is it called Port for nothing? :-D

It’s not like Sonos itself is zero latency (its latency is actually quite a bit more than dynaudio’s 20ms). So what you hear through your sonos speakers is always already ported back in time.

IMHO latency correction is a feature a product like a port should have. If you think different, I accept that.

@jgate

Of course the Port should act as time machine. Or is it called Port for nothing? :-D

It’s not like Sonos itself is zero latency (its latency is actually quite a bit more than dynaudio’s 20ms). So what you hear through your sonos speakers is always already ported back in time.

IMHO latency correction is a feature a product like a port should have. If you think different, I accept that.

 

The current buffer is so multi-room sync doesn't have dropouts.  Are you saying you'd prefer dropouts over the delay?

no, I’m not saying that and I’m not going to further reply on your comments. this was meant as feedback, not as discussion with sonos fanboys.

@mkey : I see. I guess I got confused by the first line of your opening post.

@Kumar
My Dynaudio’s are wireless (using some dynaudio specific crap). Means the signal goes from Sonos Port to Dynaudio’s Connect Box and from there wirelessly to the speakers. This causes a 20msec delay that currently can’t be corrected for due to the lack of a corresponding feature in the port.

@mkey: Contrary then to your opening sentence of the first post - these cannot be called traditional speakers by any stretch. I am familiar with the passive Dynaudio speakers, but I have no idea about their wireless offering. But I know that combining wireless speakers from two makes is always a kludge and neither make is responsible for the outcome, because each uses their own specific - in your words - crap.

Your solution is to replace the Port and Sonos speaker with a Dynaudio wireless speaker in the kitchen. If that does not do the grouped play that you want, the solution is to replace Dynaudio with Sonos. 

And to repeat - Port works fine with every stereo amp and passive(traditional) speaker combination that I know of, and there are no delays. There are delays if an AVR is used, but these can be bypassed by using the direct mode on the AVR that is usually available. 

no, I’m not saying that and I’m not going to further reply on your comments. this was meant as feedback, not as discussion with sonos fanboys.

 

I’ve found that when faced with facts which stand in the way of wishes and hopes for Sonos’ features, the term “fanboy” is often thrown out there to ward off those facts.  There is a reason delay compensation has not been introduced, and the facts explain that reason.  I suggest you stop with the subjective insults and deal with those objective facts. 

So you want Sonos to make modification to their wireless communication protocol, in order to accommodate you’re desire to integrate your Sonos speakers with a different brand of wireless speakers?  Sounds like a feature, that would reduce sales rather than increase them.

If Sonos wanted to do this, which I see no signs that they do, they would just license out their tech to other speaker companies so that it could be properly integrated….pretty much what Amazon and Google are doing.  And if they did do this, it’s doubtful that your dynaudio system would want to use that license and give a firmware update to your speakers.

 

 

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I too would like this feature.  Port is pretty expensive for what it is, and it is designed to integrated into existing systems and work with the Sono ecosystem.  I would assume most people are plugging Port into their AVRs which often have processing nowadays and accompanying latency.  Adding a Port into your system and being able to set a compensating delay would be very appreciated.

I get the ‘arguments’ about needing negative compensation, etc., but I’m sure Sonos could come up with a workable solution.  Sonos’s multi room sync implementation obviously already compensates for internal processing latency on individual units which may or may not be the same over the entire lineup.

The crummy thing about the situation is that I would like to move to a Port setup because my Amp has zero ability to perform even rudimentary room EQ (please provide a few bands of PEQ!) and moving to a more complicated setup in order to get room EQ with a Port might result in losing the ability to have audio playing back in sync.  I’d like to avoid spending a lot of money to find out I can’t even do what I want.