Feature request: option to directly connect to 5GHz wi-fi

  • 24 August 2019
  • 9 replies
  • 1541 views
K
Badge +1
Hello fellow Sonos fans,

Although I am a huge fan of Sonos, there is a problem that's bothering me.
I know I'm not the first person to ask for 5GHz support on Sonos speakers, but I hope this time we can engage in a constructive discussion. I also hope for Sonos employees to get involved.

What feature am I asking for?
The possibility to connect 5GHz compatible Sonos Speakers directly to 5GHz wi-fi.

Before anyone rushes to come up with any reason why this is not Sonos' strategy, let me tell you a few things. I'm a network engineer, specialized in wi-fi. I live in a crowded area in the centre of a reasonably big city. My 50 sq m apartment only has 2 rooms. The spectrum is crowded with wi-fi networks, certainly in 2.4GHz but also 5GHz has a few channels that should probably be avoided. Therefore I only use 5GHz wi-fi for my main devices and even have 2 accesspoints. There is a 2.4GHz network present for devices like printers etc. Let's just say wi-fi is excellent in my home.

Everything works like a charm, except for.... Sonos! I used to connect my speakers directly to 2.4GHz wi-fi, but since I purchased a Playbase that sits right on top of the cabinet with my network gear I switched setup. Now the Playbase has a wired connection and my other speakers connect to the Sonosnet of the Playbase. I have to admit this certainly decreased the amount of problems I had. It didn't completely eliminate them, and over the past 8 months problems are getting worse.

In previous discussions these are the arguments against my request. I will reply to them one by one:
  • 5GHz has poor penetration (compared to 2.4GHz) : this is true, but it's very possible to get a good 5GHz coverage. Worst case scenario means you have 1 accesspoint per room. This is still easier to run wires to then to every Sonos speaker. Compared to 2.4GHz it's only slightly worse at penetrating. But the effect an overcrowded spectrum in 2.4GHz can have is much bigger.
  • Sonos is supposed to be a plug 'n play experience: I totally understand this, but does that stop the Sonos team from creating advanced settings, combined with clear warnings that you should know what you're doing etc etc. The way it is now should ofcourse stay default procedure but I can see an obvious win/win situation here.
  • Not all Sonos speakers have 5GHz radios: This is also true, but many of them have. In fact most of them and the number is ever growing. Would it be that hard to either exclude users with older equipment from the setting or make these devices connect over ethernet or 2.4GHz? I see plenty of options here.
  • It's hard for Sonos to implement: I think this is simply not true. Ofcourse it would require resources, but Sonos has overcome much bigger issues and with the ever growing numbers of wi-fi networks the 2.4GHz network will soon become obsolete and simply unusable in many locations. Whether it's a 2.4GHz wi-fi or Sonosnet doesn't matter. In fact by having a separate Sonosnet network as well as 2.4GHz wi-fi you're contributing extra to the 2.4GH spectrum being overcrowded.
  • 5GHz will only work for 1 room and most speakers will be in other rooms: Granted, many Sonos deployments won't suit a 5GHz connection. But 5GHz radios in wireless equipment get better all the time. It's getting more and more common that homes have more than 1 accesspoint. Let's also not forget the 1 or 2 room apartments where 1 radio can cover the whole house but 2.4GHz is unusable. Right now the only option is running a cable, but is that really always an option? Many times it's unpractical and then there's the "wife factor". (I know, stereotypical, but even if running cables is possible, it's very likely to be in plain sight. Nobody likes that).
  • Providing the option to use 5GHz will increase the amount of issues: again, if you hide it deep in the advanced menu's and provide proper warning that this should only be used if you know what you're doing/own responsibility is this even a proper argument?
  • You can just run a cable to every Sonos: Aside from the reasons I've already mentioned regarding cabling... Sonos is a wireless multiroom speaker system. You get it? Wireless! If it were completely impossible to solve my issues, I could live with this argument. But there are other, better/easier ways: 5GHz!
The reason I fell in love with Sonos is a combination of 2 things:
  • Sound quality, some audiophiles may disagree, but I love the sound quality of all Sonos speakers. It may not be the best money can buy, but it's well beyond acceptable/good for me.
  • The ease of use. This includes the fact that they just work very well.
That last argument is under threat. Without running cables all through my small apartment, it seems I can't solve my issues completely. It's getting harder and harder for me to say it's working very well, if they just stop working from time to time.

One of the key aspects of my wi-fi and network deployments is that they don't require rebooting any devices. I think you can understand why I dislike having to power-cycle some of my Sonos speakers on a weekly to monthly basis.

I hope this provides Sonos and people who'd like to engage in a conversation with enough info. I'm very curious to both Sonos' and the community's opinion!
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9 replies

pwt
Userlevel 7
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One of the key aspects of my wi-fi and network deployments is that they don't require rebooting any devices. I think you can understand why I dislike having to power-cycle some of my Sonos speakers on a weekly to monthly basis.

Slight digression: although nowhere above do you actually state what problems you're experiencing, if power-cycling devices addresses these problems, it hints at an issue with duplicate IP addresses rather than wireless connection robustness.

Have you set up reserved IP addresses for your Sonos devices? (Since you're a network engineer, I'll skip the 'what?', 'how?', and 'why?'.)
4 x P:5 | Sub | 4 x P:1 | 3 x Connect | 2 x Boost | Connect:Amp | 2 x One | Amp | Move | Port
K
Badge +1

One of the key aspects of my wi-fi and network deployments is that they don't require rebooting any devices. I think you can understand why I dislike having to power-cycle some of my Sonos speakers on a weekly to monthly basis.Slight digression: although nowhere above do you actually state what problems you're experiencing, if power-cycling devices addresses these problems, it hints at an issue with duplicate IP addresses rather than wireless connection robustness.

Have you set up reserved IP addresses for your Sonos devices? (Since you're a network engineer, I'll skip the 'what?', 'how?', and 'why?'.)

I have experimented with static IP's in the past, but this doesn't make a difference.

The issues I experience are: cutting out of 1 or more speakers (sometimes 1 of a stereo setup or surround setup), lagging controls/failing controls in the Sonos app. And sometimes even 1 or more speakers disappear until I perform a powercycle.
pwt
Userlevel 7
Badge +20


Have you set up reserved IP addresses for your Sonos devices? (Since you're a network engineer, I'll skip the 'what?', 'how?', and 'why?'.)I have experimented with static IP's in the past, but this doesn't make a difference.

The issues I experience are: cutting out of 1 or more speakers (sometimes 1 of a stereo setup or surround setup), lagging controls/failing controls in the Sonos app. And sometimes even 1 or more speakers disappear until I perform a powercycle.

The symptoms you describe could be caused by an IP conflict, but also by other network factors including connectivity problems.

It's the power-cycle as a reliable corrective measure that made me suspicious. In my experience, the only problem it reliably fixes is an IP conflict, since it should change nothing about other networking factors, nor the ambient network environment.
4 x P:5 | Sub | 4 x P:1 | 3 x Connect | 2 x Boost | Connect:Amp | 2 x One | Amp | Move | Port
K
Badge +1


One of the key aspects of my wi-fi and network deployments is that they don't require rebooting any devices. I think you can understand why I dislike having to power-cycle some of my Sonos speakers on a weekly to monthly basis.Slight digression: although nowhere above do you actually state what problems you're experiencing, if power-cycling devices addresses these problems, it hints at an issue with duplicate IP addresses rather than wireless connection robustness.

Have you set up reserved IP addresses for your Sonos devices? (Since you're a network engineer, I'll skip the 'what?', 'how?', and 'why?'.)I have experimented with static IP's in the past, but this doesn't make a difference.

The issues I experience are: cutting out of 1 or more speakers (sometimes 1 of a stereo setup or surround setup), lagging controls/failing controls in the Sonos app. And sometimes even 1 or more speakers disappear until I perform a powercycle.

Powercycling isn't always necessary. There are several issues that can occur. In my experience IP conflicts only arise when the DHCP server hands out IP's that are statically set on host devices. When using static IP's I always set this on the router so the DHCP server doesn't hand out these IP's anymore. Also, all devices connected to my network are my own. At the time of the issues there's no new device connecting. If it really was an IP conflict it's Sonos creating it and that would be silly. There are no loops since the only way they connect is to 1 wired speaker.

My network is working great, so let's not point fingers. This topic is meant for discussion regarding my request. You simply can't deny that 2.4GHz is getting more and more useless.
Smilja
@Klementino, do you have any WiFi range extenders or powerlines in use? If you’ve operated Sonos in the past over your router’s WiFi, you’d need to remove the WiFi credentials found in the Advanced Settings of the Sonos app. Unplug any existing range extenders/powerlines during this process.
»And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space, Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind.« (›Windmills Of Your Mind‹ [1967]. Music by Michel Legrand ; English lyrics written by Alan & Marilyn Bergman)
pwt
Userlevel 7
Badge +20
There are several issues that can occur. In my experience IP conflicts only arise when the DHCP server hands out IP's that are statically set on host devices. When using static IP's I always set this on the router so the DHCP server doesn't hand out these IP's anymore. Also, all devices connected to my network are my own. At the time of the issues there's no new device connecting. If it really was an IP conflict it's Sonos creating it and that would be silly. There are no loops since the only way they connect is to 1 wired speaker.

The most frequent cause of duplicate IPs is a router that has rebooted. Most consumer routers do not preserve their DHCP tables across restarts, so can potentially hand out already-allocated IP addresses until all leases have expired.

My network is working great, so let's not point fingers. This topic is meant for discussion regarding my request. You simply can't deny that 2.4GHz is getting more and more useless.


Not denying it. 2.4Ghz works fine for Sonos across my two households, but neither is in a particularly WiFi congested location. I can certainly appreciate that this is not the case for everyone.
4 x P:5 | Sub | 4 x P:1 | 3 x Connect | 2 x Boost | Connect:Amp | 2 x One | Amp | Move | Port
K
Badge +1
@Klementino, do you have any WiFi range extenders or powerlines in use? If you’ve operated Sonos in the past over your router’s WiFi, you’d need to remove the WiFi credentials found in the Advanced Settings of the Sonos app. Unplug any existing range extenders/powerlines during this process.

I despise range extenders/repeaters. I strongly dislike even mesh solutions and I strongly recommend to only use powerline adapters when there's no other possible way to make it work.

I have professional accesspoints in my apartment, all have a dedicated wired backhaul. There is no location in my apartment where I can't reach at least 200Mbit/s speed, to draw a picture.
K
Badge +1

There are several issues that can occur. In my experience IP conflicts only arise when the DHCP server hands out IP's that are statically set on host devices. When using static IP's I always set this on the router so the DHCP server doesn't hand out these IP's anymore. Also, all devices connected to my network are my own. At the time of the issues there's no new device connecting. If it really was an IP conflict it's Sonos creating it and that would be silly. There are no loops since the only way they connect is to 1 wired speaker.The most frequent cause of duplicate IPs is a router that has rebooted. Most consumer routers do not preserve their DHCP tables across restarts, so can potentially hand out already-allocated IP addresses until all leases have expired.



My network is working great, so let's not point fingers. This topic is meant for discussion regarding my request. You simply can't deny that 2.4GHz is getting more and more useless.
Not denying it. 2.4Ghz works fine for Sonos across my two households, but neither is in a particularly WiFi congested location. I can certainly appreciate that this is not the case for everyone.

I'm running a professional router, not a consumer product. Just had a peek at my controller and it says my router has an uptime of 123 days and counting. The only reason it doesn't have a longer uptime is because I most likely updated the firmware or had to move around the plugs behind my TV. I even had 1 customer who was at 320 days uptime. I wanted to make a screenshot when it hit 1 year, but a power outage ruined the idea. The equipment I work with simply doesn't need reboots and when power goes down on my router, the AP's go down as well, so every host has to reconnect anyway.

I have many customers who have no issue at all, but they don't live in crowded places. At my apartment there are over 50 SSID's available. Wi-fi is ofcourse not the only medium using the 2.4GHz, and with the many people passing by bluetooth can really spoil the fun, as wel as dect phones.

I appreciate that you try to help me, but I've more or less tried everything and simply narrowed it all down to the 2.4GHz being the issue.
pwt
Userlevel 7
Badge +20
Does your Sonos connectivity matrix tell you anything interesting? In the URL below replace '192.168.0.31' with the IP address of one of your speakers, and click on 'Network Matrix' to expand the view.

http://192.168.0.31:1400/support/review
4 x P:5 | Sub | 4 x P:1 | 3 x Connect | 2 x Boost | Connect:Amp | 2 x One | Amp | Move | Port
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