Upcoming changes to ‘On this iPhone or iPad’ Playback



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@Chicks

Yes. And the world is flat and the moon landings were faked. What all of these statements have in common is a lack of proof, which, with regard to yours, has been clearly pointed out to you several times before by others.

To reiterate again what also has been pointed out to you by others, operating systems evolve. It is the responsibility of those who develop applications on those OS platforms to adapt to those changes, not the reverse. The fact that, with regard to the “on this iPhone” feature, in the face of the same iOS changes Denon has been able to successfully adapt and maintain this feature whereas Sonos has not would indicate that perhaps the more appropriate word to use here would be “failure” rather than “fault”.

@jeffhess55

Well stated!
I just want to listen to the music i have on my phone. Sonos just went from easy to use to a pain. Extremely poor communication and support for transition. This is bush league performance and based on reading the threads, a lesson in how NOT to do service recovery

You DID read the part about this being 100% Apple's responsibility, right? Not much Sonos could do to fix it, after a year of trying, so they finally had to remove the feature to eliminate ongoing support costs. No brainer. Plenty of superior ways to listen to your music, use one of them.
I just want to listen to the music i have on my phone. Sonos just went from easy to use to a pain. Extremely poor communication and support for transition. This is bush league performance and based on reading the threads, a lesson in how NOT to do service recovery
jgatie,
Yes, you are right. However, since Sonos elected to drop phone support for the older Play speakers, I was uncomfortable putting trust in Sonos again. Also, since I have an Apple system, I'd rather keep the voice control with Siri rather than Alexa. It is all good though. Everyone has their preferences and has to make decisions based upon their own needs. Best to you.
I sold my Sonos speakers and bought two Apple Homepods. I love the new Apple system. The Sonos speakers were great but without phone support, there was no point in remaining with Sonos.

Strange, you could have sold your Sonos speakers and bought two Sonos Ones (for less than the Home Pods) and still have the "great" Sonos, along with the Airplay aspects of the Home Pods.
I sold my Sonos speakers and bought two Apple Homepods. I love the new Apple system. The Sonos speakers were great but without phone support, there was no point in remaining with Sonos.
In regards to Denon, it's not 100% a copy of Sonos. Obviously the featureset is different, form factor different, and surely much/most of the software code is different. What's true is that Sonos sued Denon for patent infringement and won. Meaning some of Sonos propitiatory code/algorithms/etc was stolen. As a result, Denon was forced to pay a license fee to Sonos.

As to why 'on this phone' functionality still is supported by Denon and not by Sonos, there are a few different explanations that are possible. One is the two are built on different frameworks. Perhaps Denon can address the issue without making major changes to the underlying framework, while Sonos would have to make major changes. Deciding not to make major changes is not just a factor of putting forth the effort in coding, but recognize what other features would need to regression testing to ensure everything is still working. Regression testing is not 100% full prove, so there is a risk of introduce new bugs in the setup for customers who are not currently effected by this problem.

A second possibility is that the issue does actually exist with Denon, but Denon has just chose to accept it. Common aspects of customers who reported the underlying issue on this board is the use of airplay on the network. A look at Denon's site shows that only one of their Heos devices supports airplay. I'm pretty sure their sales volume is lower (could be wrong about this). There is no community for HEOS, that I'm aware, to research whether this issue has been reported. So is it possible, that the issue exists, but Denon believes that effects so few of their customers that it's best to just not talk about it rather than remove the feature.

A third possibility is that Sonos isn't telling the full truth here, and one or more of the conspiracy theories mentioned in this thread are actually true. Pick which one you like the best

As far as what products to recommend in the future, I'd attempt to steer clients away from using an 'on this device' feature in general, particularly iPhone users. The fact that it is no longer supported on two multroom platforms (Sonos, Bluesound), and never at all on several others, doesn't show the feature to be reliable in general. I would be concerned about how long the feature would remain with Denon. I would encourage clients to get audio from other means. If it must be from audio sources on the phone, I would recommend a system with strong airplay or bluetooth support. Airplay 2 is relatively new, and since airplay one failed, there may be reason to be skeptical. Bluetooth on the other hand, is very well established.
None of the other options is a 'workaround' at all. They are not designed to get round the removal of this feature. They are all pre-existing methods for playing local content that for many users are preferable to playing from the device.

Clearly, none of these methods is exactly like 'on this device', and for those for whom 'on this device' was the preferred method, all other approaches will appear inferior. The reality is that all methods have (or had) pros and cons. Which factors matter varies enormously between users. But it is a slanted perspective to view 'on this iPhone' as some sort of gold standard that other methods fail to match.

If Sonos had instead removed playing from a NAS, then I could have come on here complaining about the hassle of copying all my music to the phone, and my wife's to her phone. And the fact that the phone doesn't exist that has enough memory to hold my lossless music library. Then there would be the lack of robust performance when I am a long way from router... and so on.

The purpose of this is NOT to knock playing from the device. My point is that viewing every other method as an inferior workaround to playing from the device is a perverse view.

There is no question that Sonos is a poorer place for the loss of this option. Nobody should claim that it doesn't matter. I get that people want what they had, not something different. But everyone has to find the best alternative for their needs, or get out of Sonos. 'On this iPhone' has gone and it isn't coming back.
Userlevel 2
Why is everyone getting their panties in a bunch defending Sonos and making assumptions of what a client is doing? They were using “on my phone” for special occasions and special events. This is the most surreal discussion thread I’ve ever taken part in. I shouldn’t even have to explain this. The concern is that we’re losing a core feature of a product and can’t do anything about it without purchasing a replacement. This isn’t a service being provided that we are not paying for that is being discontinued. It’s a component for something in our hands that has simply been cut.

I understand your frustration, and it sounds like you have a lot invested in Sonos, both personally and professionally. Despite the dominance of a very small group of very frequent poster here, I assure you that there are many who share your disappointment regarding the loss of this feature.

The “workarounds” suggested by both Sonos and the “regulars” here all have drawbacks, some of which have been helpfully pointed out by @bobsonos a few pages back.

There is an inconvenient truth that the frequent posters here chose to ignore. That is that there is a competitive product, HEOS, that continues to offer this feature with no apparent difficulties. This is all the more surprising since the frequent posters here have assured us that HEOS is simply a direct copy of the Sonos system, and that this has been proven by a recent patent court case.

The obvious question is, how can Denon’s HEOS system continue to offer this feature when the system that their product is a direct copy of, Sonos, cannot? However, the regulars here would prefer to discuss Bluesound, for reasons that are all too obvious.

My suggestion to you would be to look at the free Google Play account option for your customers. It is the best of the workarounds in replicating the features of “on this iPhone”. The mandatory substitution that can only be overridden by individual selection is very annoying, but may not bother the majority of your customers.

In the future, you should consider the HEOS system for your clients as it continues to offer the “on this iPhone” feature and supports legacy iOS versions back more that a few generations further than Sonos does.

Also, I have read that installers find that the open architecture of their API makes integration into home automation systems easier, if that is of use to you.

Good luck!

P.S. I see you have been given some unsolicited Intellectual Property law advice. Just wanted to remind you of the old saying, “Free advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.” (And yes, that applies to mine as well!)

If we are using Bluesound as the gauge to reinforce why this is happening (which is fine), please note that they said pressure from Google and Apple. Perhaps the often mentioned "still works on android" fact is in jeopardy.

That is a worthwhile and interesting point. But even if it happened it would still confirm the fact that Sonos is responding to situations it cannot control. Removing features would still be done reluctantly.

One crucial difference at the moment is that Android is not experiencing the drop-out and skipping problems that many users of iDevices have had. There must be more than just security issues going on here, although everything may be linked. The implementation of Airplay seems to be implicated in some way.

Given that there is currently no generic technical problem playing from Android storage, and therefore no drain on Sonos resource trying to fix something, Sonos has even less incentive to remove this feature from Android controllers than it did for iDevices.
Userlevel 3
Badge +2
Don't people realize that Bluesound just made their their user base suffer exact same atrocity as Sonos, or are they so intent on bashing Sonos they spout out any competitor they can think of just for effect?

https://support1.bluesound.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360018938314-Where-has-play-from-device-gone

Thank you for getting back to me.
In order to create a more robust experience through our BluOS system, play from mobile was removed due to security risks on iOS and for the arrival of Airplay 2 to be used alongside our new Gen 2i lineup.
This has been the case since IOS 12 and Android 8.0.0. The decision to remove this function was not due to Bluesound, but had to be taken out under pressure from Google and Apple.
And low and behold, they did it 10 months ago, exactly the time 'On this iDevice' started acting up on Sonos. Note their solution? Buy a new Airplay 2 capable Bluesound device (which weren't even available 10 months ago).

If we are using Bluesound as the gauge to reinforce why this is happening (which is fine), please note that they said pressure from Google and Apple. Perhaps the often mentioned "still works on android" fact is in jeopardy.


The removal of ‘On My Phone’ is killin’ me. I have some Play:1s that now are practically useless, and to make matters worse, I have friends that have some I recommended and they’re now bummed, and even worse, I’ve setup 18 stores and counting for a client where I recommended the Play:1s (each location has 3) and they’re livid the feature was removed. Here I am looking like a giant $##% cause Sonos decided to remove a core feature of a product I sold others on. I really hope this change gets reverted or legal action is taken.Why in the world would you recommend this, likely illegal, way to play music to businesses? Sonos has multiple streaming services specifically for businesses, with the requisite licensing. They need to subscribe to one of them.
chicks, where's your Sonos update?? you mentioned they were coming out with un update to implement Airplay on the connect? like Sonos excuses on removing the play from iphone functionality??

@chicks did not suggest that Airplay 2 would be implemented on existing Connects via a firmware update (if that is what you mean). That is impossible. The current Connect does not have the hardware necessary.

I believe @chicks was suggesting that a 'Connect gen 2' is on the way. As far as I know, Sonos itself has not announced or confirmed that.
Userlevel 7
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I've removed a few posts again, if we need to step in again, this thread will be closed for future comment.

Let's take a break and come back with clearer heads. We all need to work together to keep these discussions friendly and civil. You're welcome to offer criticism and discussion, but we need to all keep things friendly with each other.
I sense a lot of tension in this thread. People should chill out. Listen to some music. Watch a movie. Here's my suggestion:

https://www.amazon.com/Logan-Blu-ray-Hugh-Jackman/dp/B01LTIBWTE/ref=sr_1_2?crid=FHD973GS5XLF&keywords=logan+blu+ray&qid=1566849152&s=gateway&sprefix=logan%2Caps%2C150&sr=8-2
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Yes, @jgatie, it's been an amusing thread. Lol.and so? shame on them too. but right now, who has a streamer that works? Bluesound. not Sonos. unless as chicks say you wait for the Zimbabwe tech fair of 2112 and maybe Sonos wakes up. I'm not saying Bluesound are saints, only saying that Bluesound have a product that works NOW.
And yet you're still here! Sigh. Buh bye!


you don't have to read my replies. just ignore them.
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Yes, @jgatie, it's been an amusing thread. Lol.
and so? shame on them too. but right now, who has a streamer that works? Bluesound. not Sonos. unless as chicks say you wait for the Zimbabwe tech fair of 2112 and maybe Sonos wakes up. I'm not saying Bluesound are saints, only saying that Bluesound have a product that works NOW. and if you ask anyone around they will vouch for the superior components of Bluesound.
Yes, @jgatie, it's been an amusing thread. Lol.

Yes, "I hate what Sonos has done! By George, I'll show them! I'm switching to another manufacturer who did the same thing! Take that Sonos!" is not a well thought out strategy.
Yes, @jgatie, it's been an amusing thread. Lol.
Don't people realize that Bluesound just made their their user base suffer the exact same atrocity as Sonos, or are they so intent on bashing Sonos they spout out any competitor they can think of just for effect?

https://support1.bluesound.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360018938314-Where-has-play-from-device-gone

Thank you for getting back to me.
In order to create a more robust experience through our BluOS system, play from mobile was removed due to security risks on iOS and for the arrival of Airplay 2 to be used alongside our new Gen 2i lineup.
This has been the case since IOS 12 and Android 8.0.0. The decision to remove this function was not due to Bluesound, but had to be taken out under pressure from Google and Apple.


And low and behold, they did it 10 months ago, exactly the time 'On this iDevice' started acting up on Sonos. Note their solution? Buy a new Airplay 2 capable Bluesound device (which weren't even available 10 months ago).
chicks, where's your Sonos update?? you mentioned they were coming out with un update to implement Airplay on the connect? like Sonos excuses on removing the play from iphone functionality??

Patience, butterfly. They're holding a private press conference today and tomorrow in NYC, no news out yet. Perhaps they will embargo the press until IFA in Berlin early next month, perhaps we'll hear something soon. Dunno.

The current Connect is very old, will almost certainly be replaced inline with the new Amp, which includes AirPlay 2 support.
Userlevel 7
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@Peagle, you are free to complain here if you'd like, as long as it’s in a sober and constructive way, and on topic. We are not here to censor you or anyone unless you can’t behave in a civilized manner. Antagonizing other posters or other trolling behaviors won't be tolerated for anyone. If you have any questions about this please feel free to PM me directly. This topic doesn't need the extra noise.
Userlevel 4
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The assumption that the issue could be fixed if Sonos just tried harder has been discussed in this thread many times already.


And hasn't been proven one way or another. Let the customers post without trying to run them down. You've already posted thousands of words in this thread no need to keep spamming the same thing over and over.
Hey Sonos. Love your website (not really). you have a section on sustainability. you say:

Sustainability is non-negotiable


so now, explain to me how what you're doing is sustainable. you remove "play from iphone" which requires a new hardware from either you (sonos speaker with airplay2) or a NAS. explain to me how that is sustainable. when I read this corporate #$% I wanna puke. stop giving life lessons and start fixing the issues for products which we ALREADY paid for.



I believe you are referring to this page?

Your statement is incorrect.. You are not required to buy new hardware in order to listen to music. They are options, yes, but not required.

The assumption that the issue could be fixed if Sonos just tried harder has been discussed in this thread many times already.
Userlevel 4
Badge +6
This thread is getting way off topic. I've deleted some posts, but if people continue to antagonize or attack other users, we will be issuing bans or closing this or other threads as needed. If you think someone is incorrect, there are plenty of ways to say that without attacking them or their motives. People who are here to help, are doing it because they want to be here to help. All Sonos employees are clearly identified as such, and we don't pay anyone to be here stealthily.

This topic is a complicated situation, there were some tough decisions for us to make, and I know that this has made the way some people listen to music harder. However, there are a lot of great alternatives that after a short setup will likely work better for most situations. If you need help setting anything up, feel free to contact our support team directly. The announcement thread for this change here has some of the best solutions outlined.


Just to clarify the way I read this (English is not my native language) complain about Sonos decision = ban?

2/3 of the posts on this thread are posters telling your affected customers to shut up can you address this?
Userlevel 7
Badge +26
This thread is getting way off topic. I've deleted some posts, but if people continue to antagonize or attack other users, we will be issuing bans or closing this or other threads as needed. If you think someone is incorrect, there are plenty of ways to say that without attacking them or their motives. People who are here to help, are doing it because they want to be here to help. All Sonos employees are clearly identified as such, and we don't pay anyone to be here stealthily.

This topic is a complicated situation, there were some tough decisions for us to make, and I know that this has made the way some people listen to music harder. However, there are a lot of great alternatives that after a short setup will likely work better for most situations. If you need help setting anything up, feel free to contact our support team directly. The announcement thread for this change here has some of the best solutions outlined.