Sonos Version 6.4 Now in Public Beta

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I would hope that they would fix it as an exhausted queue is common place, and the current behaviour is undesirable and confusing.
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Definitely. Asking for a song to play now with an exhausted queue and then suddenly be going back through the queue is undesirable and a bug that should certainly be fixed pre release. Assume you have reported it.
yes, I reported it.
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It could be addressed by varying the action based on play state: appending to the queue if STOPPED, else inserting after the currently PLAYING or PAUSED_PLAYBACK track. But the fine distinction between STOPPED and PAUSED_PLAYBACK might confuse many a user.

It's probably not a 'show stopper', but it shows that releasing the Sonos software in beta format to the wider public, is very useful to highlight these type of matters before the full release, but I'm sure that some such issues are forced to be left in situ because of deadline dates imposed by management.

I guess a line has to be drawn in the sand at some point and some issues like this might then get rolled over to v6.5 or later.

Which is why I still maintain that Play Now should add a track at the end of the queue. If you want to inject a track into a queue there is "Play next" already for that. The time you would likely want to inject a track into a queue is when a playlist is already playing so that works well. I can even select "Play next" and do a quick tap forward to the next track if I want to get close to a play now experience but maintaining the queue order.

I don't think I would be too disappointed in its current form.

.. but there is also the option to 'add to end of queue' in the menu context list already ... The 'Play Now' feature, just adds a chosen song to where the 'focus' is in the queue.

The only issue I can see here, is after the queue has finished playing (exhausted), because the queue 'focus' automatically shifts back to the first track once the last song finishes playing.

Personally, I prefer the 'Play Now' feature to not add to the end of the queue, as that means that it then skips all my other tracks previously loaded into my queue ... I thought the object here with the new beta, is to keep the music playing, not skip the remaining queue and play just the one added-track... and then the music ends.

I think it's a difficult discussion here, because end-users probably would like to see different things happen when they add another song to their queue and it's then complicated further, when a queue has finished playing.

Perhaps it would be solved, by leaving the 'focus' at the end of the queue and not auto-shifting it back to the beginning of the queue.

I think these things are maybe 'easier said than done' and that's why I was thinking that it's perhaps something that should be carefully considered and maybe corrected in a later version of the software (v6.5 etc.) rather than rushing things through in v6.4 - that's if there isn't time to meet any (nearby) potential release deadline date set by Sonos management.

My thoughts were that there are lots of news stories emerging on the web about Sonos announcements coming soon, so I am second-guessing that the company may want to draw a line under this beta in the not too distant future.

I personally still do not see the issue as being a show-stopper, but I would rather the 'Play Now' menu feature stays in the software, as the developers and their managers may decide to remove it in this version and reintroduce it at a later date, when all the different user-options, mentioned here, have been carefully considered in depth.
A queue pointer has to go somewhere after the end of the last track. Wrapping it to the first track is logical (you might want to play the album again), but can produce undesirable behaviour with 'Play Now', as discussed.

It should be relatively simple for 'Play Now' to append to a stopped queue.
A queue pointer has to go somewhere after the end of the last track. Wrapping it to the first track is logical (you might want to play the album again), but can produce undesirable behaviour with 'Play Now', as discussed.

It should be relatively simple for 'Play Now' to append to a stopped queue.

Yes Ratty, that seems a very sensible solution, just when a queue is stopped (not paused).

I just think adding the 'Play Now' track to the queue focus, is a great new feature and much better than always adding the track to the end of a queue, but if the queue isn't playing (or paused), then I think adding it at the end of a 'stopped' queue is a very good compromise.
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Does anyone else struggle accessing the last page of this thread (had it on others too) on a mobile browser? I push the last number but it just takes me to the first page. Changing the URL to what I think it should be still takes me to the first page.
Separately, hopefully it's me because I can't believe it would still be so poor, but is it possible to go the last page of a thread from the main page? Esp on mobile it seems silly to have to go to the first page (data usage) and then scroll and select the last page.
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No - this site sucks (technically) on many levels and has been widely trounced by many who knew the old (superior) site. Indeed on a mobile you have to scroll to the bottom of page 1, navigate to the last page then scroll to the bottom of the last page 😞
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Cheers. I can't access this page from my mobile. Selecting the last page arrow at the bottom just takes me to the first page. Changing the URL to page 7 is the same. Tried in FF, standard browser and Chrome.
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If I shuffle a multi-artist compilation (for instance) and then got to an album and choose add to end of queue, it adds the album tracks into the queue randomly. I don't find this intuitive at all, but I think it's always been like this with shuffle turned on (in Sonos). I would prefer it to complete my shuffled multi-artist compilation and then play the album in non-shuffled order. It's always been confusing choosing "Add to end of queue" when in shuffle mode as it doesn't do that. I go from shuffling playlists or multi-artist compilations to playing albums in the intended order a lot, so this is something I would like to be more intuitive.

If I shuffle a multi-artist compilation in the Google Play music app it creates a queue with the contents shuffled. If I add an album to the queue it adds the album to the end in the original order. Much more intuitive and the desired outcome. I much prefer the way the app adds the contents of the compilation to the queue in a random order, rather than shuffling the queue. With Google Play once you have a queue of shuffled tracks there is no way to un-shuffle it. There is no toggle for shuffle as it works very differently. I like the Google Play way, but doing the same in Sonos would require yet another shuffle re-design. I'm not sure what the answer is!!!!! I'm worried too much change will alienate the Sonos user base.

My biggest complaint though with Sonos and music services (as mentioned in one of my earlier posts) is that I can't quickly shuffle my entire playlist of 8000 Apple Music tracks that I have added to my library. The entire playlist has to be loaded into the queue (which takes about 4 minutes!!!!) before playback can begin. This is very user unfriendly, especially as an error is shown after 20 seconds, and the load continues in the background without the user being aware. It's issues like this that make me feel that I'm wasting money with "music services" and that I should go back to the old fashioned NAS / imported "Music Library" approach. Large imported iTunes playlists are loaded into the queue instantly and I get much more enjoyment out of my entire library as a result.

I'm in a situation at the moment where I subscribe to Apple Music and use iTunes (with iTunes Match), but I only have an Android phone. The Android Apple Music app is just awful, which makes me want to cancel Apple Music and go back to Google Play - but I'm reluctant to abandon my iTunes library, especially when large imported playlists from iTunes (via the XML) are loaded into the queue so efficiently, but this approach obviously doesn't work with the Apple Music tracks that I have in iTunes. I'm also not sure about going back to Google Play (as a subscriber) as I believe it still has a maximum playlist limit of 1000 tracks. But I love the Android "Google Play Music" app (with my uploaded music / free account). I don't know what to do as I'm not fully happy with either service and I'm not happy with the Sonos integration with either for large playlists.

Apologies for covering a lot of topics in a single post and for returning to my previous rant about large playlists. Music services encourage us to add large volumes of music to our libraries but we need efficient ways of being able to play it all back on Sonos - and the queue (although needed for multi-room) is the culprit.

I really wish the Sonos focus was on improving music service integration, rather than going down the "voice control" route.

I think all your remarks are 'fair comment' and it is clear that these big streaming services all need to come together and draft some kind of rules and conventions so that all their search and play features etc. work in the same or similar way for the end-user.

The thing is no-one wants to collaborate or share their innovative ideas, as they each are competing for their consumer market share.

It means the end-user however is given a choice, I guess, but when things are bought together in things like the Sonos App it means we (the user) quickly see the differences as to how each of these companies are doing things.

It means we get to see the good features of some services and also the annoyances in others.

In many respects Sonos has had to cater for these differences in each and every music service they offer via the Sonos Controller interface and IMHO they have not done a bad job so far.

Yes, there is plenty of room for improvement and customisation and I'm sure eventually these companies will move towards a customer 'minimum' service level agreement that will please many, but not everyone.

This is what happens in lots of cases where multiple data sources are brought together through one common app interface.

There is rumour on the net that eventually some apps like Spotify, Amazon Music, Google Play and Apple Music etc. will be able to cast their content direct to Sonos speakers direct (one day) and if that is true, then we can each choose the service and software that best suits our individual needs.

In many respects, if the rumours turn out to be true, it may suit Sonos who are primarily in the speaker hardware business and the software controller aspect can then fall into the hands of third party developers,such as Amazon, Spotify and Apple etc.

The Sonos software developers role will probably change as things progress, but they would still be much-needed to oversee the continued integration into third party software.

I think that's the sort of future road-map I would choose, if I was the Sonos CEO.
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Well all that said....I am looking forward to final release post beta. I am also certainly looking forward to Aug 30th.
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Barry M is correct. If queue is exhausted and hit play now it should add to end of queue and play now (not go back and put in random 2nd slot).

Other Play Now issues:
1) Folder View clicking on Song invokes Play Now even if using queue (thus interrupting music) . . should be Play All (and if using queue give pop up warning).
2) same issue if search by Song - clicking on song does Play Now instead of Play All (interrupting music if using queue)

Both are issues as well with Play Now function. I believe they rushed out the Play Now function because of popular demand and it has caused some unforeseen issues. Goes to show you how people are always saying .... add this its a no brainer (well there are lots of things that can happen - there are no NO Brainers). Play Now may need to push out to next release when they have more time to do it correctly (unless that is just me hoping they either pull it or make these corrections).
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I don't know about #1 as no longer use a local library.
#2 has been like that from the start of beta 6.4 - the behaviour clicking a searched song is different from choosing the same song from an album or playlist.
is there support for audible in this build?
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No mention regarding audible
Play Now may need to push out to next release when they have more time to do it correctly (unless that is just me hoping they either pull it or make these corrections).
I would hope that they fix these issues to get it right. The changes are in-your-face central to the user experience, and they need to be intuitive and reliable with regard to the users' intention. ... The current situation is anything but that IMO.

I wouldn't suppose that there was any particular rush to get these changes out there. It is not as if they were addressing any of the hot issues du jour, such as voice control, or disappointing cut-down facilities when using streamed services, ... or no android trueplay, or poor playbar connectivity.

I would think think that the headlines that will be hoping for would be along the lines "Sonos now easier to use", and they wouldn't want that to be spoiled by the kind of dissent which occurred when they upset users' satisfaction, by tinkered with the pause button in a way that didn't take into account all use cases.
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I wouldn't be so sure that voice control etc. may be in the background just not turned on or seen by beta testers. The way they seem to be hastily making changes in this beta through makes me think that they are required to have it ready for release on 8/30 for the announcement (unfortunately). I wouldn't be surprised they release a version with known issues to meet the deadline.
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2) same issue if search by Song - clicking on song does Play Now instead of Play All (interrupting music if using queue)

Can you elaborate the issue with this.

If I search a song and click it, it plays immediately, inserting itself into the queues current position. I believe this is how it should behave and makes perfect sense to me.

What do you think it should do?
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Normally if you are using queue and click on song you get pop up that queue is in use. Here it stops music playing and plays immediately. It should never stop the music when using queue unless specifically told to.
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Normally if you are using queue and click on song you get pop up that queue is in use. Here it stops music playing and plays immediately. It should never stop the music when using queue unless specifically told to.
Only if it's clearing the queue, and the queue has been modified from the playlist/album that had been loaded into it originally, should it be notifying you.

If it's just adding to the queue, even if playing immediately, then there should be no notification. The notification isn't that what you're playing is being changed... it's giving you the opportunity to back out of an action that is irreversible (clearing an unsaved queue that you won't get back if not saved).

If you tell it to play an individual song immediately, the fact that you've chosen that option should be confirmation enough to say that you want what is currently playing to be switched to what you have selected.
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I'm not choosing the option - its not option its default when click on song with queue in use.

I'm not saying there needs to be a notification but it shouldn't be the default happening. If I chose Play Now in menu no it shouldn't warn.

Clicking on stops music and plays Now which has never been the function when using queue.

MikeV, you are correct...

I think these things are doing what the Sonos programmers intended. The only issue I can see, is the previously-reported 'folders' issue, which Sonos staff have recently acknowledged, but said they will fix in a later version.

Here is how I see it...

Starting with an empty queue.. If you click a normal playlist-cover (play button) or album-cover (play button) (not a folder, obviously) it will load the playlist or album into queue and start playing ... Even if there is only one song in the playlist.

If a queue exists already and it is NOT edited, the playlist or album chosen, will replace the existing queue without any warning.

If an EDITED queue exists however, the playlist or album chosen, will not replace the queue immediately, but the warning box appears giving the user a chance to replace their edited queue, or cancel.

In the Sonos Search results everything returned in the tabs (Artists, Albums etc.) is treated like a playlist when you click on it... Including things under the 'songs' tab.

If the queue has been EDITED - you will get the usual warning box... If it has NOT been altered, then anything chosen will simply replace the queue.

One other thing to mention... If you decide to go into any playlist (anywhere) and view the separate individual tracks and tap on a track, it will still load the entire playlist to the queue, but begin playing the queue with the track you have chosen. Again if the original queue was unedited it will simply replace what was there. If not you get the replace-warning box.

So as I see it, apart from the issues surrounding folders... everything else seems to be working as intended, or at least how I expect it to work.

Note: A user can alter the default 'tap' actions mentioned above, either by selecting the (...) ellipsis, or long-pressing an album cover (not its play button), or long-pressing on an individual-track and choosing the actions of one of the many context menu options instead ... Such as adding the selected item to the end of queue etc.

I believe that some users here have mentioned they would like to see the default 'tap' selections on a track/playlist/album etc. as capable of being changed or customised to become one of the options that's on the context menu instead... Again that's probably something easier said than done and maybe something for the future rather than this v6.4 software release.

The only variation to the default action I have found so far, is the one Chris raised earlier and that is the 'acknowledged' folder issue, which has been reported to Sonos earlier.

As far as I can see the Sonos search results seem to be working okay for me so far. Unless I am misunderstanding the issue that is being raised here by Chris.
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It is not just issue in folders - when you search a song it behaves just like with folders and it defaults to Play Now. The song search behaves incorrectly just as Folders does as I have stated above. Does not work properly in Folders or Song search (I haven't tried from saved playlist).

- Edit Queue
- Search for Song
- when song results show accidentally tap on the song
- it will Play Now (expected action would be that you would get Queue has been edited dialog)